Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

Always_Running

premierstone wrote: »

lol Galway have regressed but not that far. They did beat Roscommon by 14 pts in last years championship.

In fairness the way Des Newton step Roscommon up against Galway (marking space instead of the man) even Leitrim and London would have beaten them.

nice_guy80

that is more a reflection on Galway
very good one game, brutal the next

Roscommon were just brutal in most games last year

premierstone

Syferus wrote: »

And we cruised by Antrim in third gear last year while Galway lost to them.

With Roscommon and Galway it's clearly become as much a mental block as a quantifiable one, at the moment there's very little to separate the teams man-for-man and Roscommon have the better results in championship football for number of years now, even despite losing to them by that large a margin last year we were the only Connacht county besides Mayo to beat a Division 1 side in the championship.

Even more so than Mayo there seems to be a deeply ingrained stigma with Galway and it will take a special performance to wipe that slate clean. If we play them these year it'll be in Salthill and few grounds have been unkinder to Roscommon than Pearse Stadium.

Twelve years waiting for a win against your two biggest rivals is a hell of a long time for a county with twenty provincial titles to its name. It'll change one of these years and it seems likely to come as a surprise to everyone but Roscommon supporters.

Always_Running wrote: »

In fairness the way Des Newton step Roscommon up against Galway (marking space instead of the man) even Leitrim and London would have beaten them.

I think ye have both missed my point, re-read he's post he has basically said Galway are ranked 7th in Connaught!

He has ranked them:
1. Mayo
2. Roscommon
3. Sligo
4. Leitrim
5. London
6. NY
7. Galway

Dublin Red Devil

premierstone wrote: »

I think ye have both missed my point, re-read he's post he has basically said Galway are ranked 7th in Connaught!

He has ranked them:
1. Mayo
2. Roscommon
3. Sligo
4. Leitrim
5. London
6. NY
7. Galway

Well not 7th, I'd have them tied 3rd with Sligo

padd b1975

Galway are the second best team in the province.

Missed out on promotion back to Division 1 in heart breaking circumstances and in the Championship fell victim to a banana skin qualifier.

They also hammered a Division 3 side who some posters think are the second best team in the province by 14 points!!

More than enough evidence to convince me.

premierstone

padd b1975 wrote: »

Galway are the second best team in the province.

Missed out on promotion back to Division 1 in heart breaking circumstances and in the Championship fell victim to a banana skin qualifier.

They also hammered a Division 3 side who some posters think are the second best team in the province by 14 points!!

More than enough evidence to convince me.

I agree but unfortunately trying to explain to most Rosscommon fans where they stand in the pecking order is more complicated and frustrating than trying to explain economics to a Sinn Fein TD.

keane2097

lol sample size on using the 14 point win last year as proof of anything. Very little between Galway, Sligo and Roscommon in reality IMO.

yabadabado

premierstone wrote: »

I agree but unfortunately trying to explain to most Rosscommon fans where they stand in the pecking order is more complicated and frustrating than trying to explain economics to a Sinn Fein TD.

minority of Roscommon fans in fairness.The vast majority of supporters know the story and I doubt anyone is over confident after last years performances.

manofwisdom

nice_guy80 wrote: »

that is more a reflection on Galway
very good one game, brutal the next

Roscommon were just brutal in most games last year

What other very good games had Galway over the last 4,5 years? they haven't won Connacht title since 2008 weren't overly impressive that year either and haven't won a game outside of Connacht since 2004 v Louth i think it was. IMO That game was more of a reflection on Roscommon they were good in the next game v Armagh brutal v Tyrone in following game.

In truth very little between the current Leitrim,Sligo,Roscommon,Galway sides anyone could beat each other on any given day Mayo are well ahead of the rest and will be a big shock if they don't retain their Connacht title.

Always_Running

padd b1975 wrote: »

Galway are the second best team in the province.

Missed out on promotion back to Division 1 in heart breaking circumstances and in the Championship fell victim to a banana skin qualifier.

They also hammered a Division 3 side who some posters think are the second best team in the province by 14 points!!

More than enough evidence to convince me.

Galway beat Roscommon by 14pts then were well beaten at home by Sligo then knocked out the championship by Antrim. Roscommon,Antrim,Sligo are all Div 3 sides. If they had got promotion do you think they would have stayed up? i don't.

Galway were also beaten by Sligo in 2010 and by them in 2007 i really don't know how you are convinced that they are the 2nd best in Connacht?

megadodge

Always_Running wrote: »

Galway beat Roscommon by 14pts then were well beaten at home by Sligo then knocked out the championship by Antrim. Roscommon,Antrim,Sligo are all Div 3 sides. If they had got promotion do you think they would have stayed up? i don't.

Galway were also beaten by Sligo in 2010 and by them in 2007 i really don't know how you are convinced that they are the 2nd best in Connacht?

Interesting to see what comeback there is to that incredibly straightforward point.

Sligo beat Galway comfortably in the championship. They beat them again a few weeks ago in the FBD. Antrim then beat Galway in the qualifiers, yet to people outside of Connacht it seems it's still 1998.

There actually is very little between any of the other teams in Connacht after Mayo and that's the truth. Connacht people know that.

padd b1975

Always_Running wrote: »

Galway beat Roscommon by 14pts then were well beaten at home by Sligo then knocked out the championship by Antrim. Roscommon,Antrim,Sligo are all Div 3 sides. If they had got promotion do you think they would have stayed up? i don't.

Galway were also beaten by Sligo in 2010 and by them in 2007 i really don't know how you are convinced that they are the 2nd best in Connacht?

Galway would have struggled in Division 1 in my opinion, but the fact remains they came within a whisker of getting the chance to test themselves in Division 1.

Sligo and Roscommon are in Division 3 for one simple reason, they are not good enough to play in Division 2

Remember, Longford and Sligo beat Mayo in 2010, but Mayo managed to go on and knock out the reigning champions in the next 2 seasons.

By your logic that would make Longford. and Sligo better sides than Mayo, Cork and Dublin.

rossie1977

anybody can beat anybody else on any given day, it might not be the best quality football but its the most open province, if galway or mayo go down to carrick with the wrong attitude they will get beaten, between 2007 and 2010 four different counties won the title, thats unheard of anywhere else

personally i don't think mayo are that far ahead of everyone else either, they have struggled for large periods of the last two connacht finals, its only 18 months or so ago that mayo were on the way out against london, will be a very interesting championship this year

Always_Running

padd b1975 wrote: »

Galway would have struggled in Division 1 in my opinion, but the fact remains they came within a whisker of getting the chance to test themselves in Division 1.

Sligo and Roscommon are in Division 3 for one simple reason, they are not good enough to play in Division 2

Remember, Longford and Sligo beat Mayo in 2010, but Mayo managed to go on and knock out the reigning champions in the next 2 seasons.

By your logic that would make Longford. and Sligo better sides than Mayo, Cork and Dublin.

Opinion of the majority that Galway would struggle in Div 1 i'd say, they did get within a whisker however most would agree Kildare have more about them and more suited to the top league.

The gap isn't big between Div 2 and 3 for example Longford,Westmeath,Sligo,Roscommon are all around the same level and most teams gets judged on championship form over the last few years Sligo have been better than Galway. I do remember 2010 a bad championship season for Mayo under JOM didn't recover from the NFL hammerring and in 2011 if it wasn't for the turning point v London (game they almost lost) they wouldn't have even played Cork.

Point is Mayo are now the best in Connacht that much is certain while it's highly debatable who is the 2nd best.

megadodge

padd b1975 wrote: »

Galway would have struggled in Division 1 in my opinion, but the fact remains they came within a whisker of getting the chance to test themselves in Division 1.

Sligo and Roscommon are in Division 3 for one simple reason, they are not good enough to play in Division 2

Remember, Longford and Sligo beat Mayo in 2010, but Mayo managed to go on and knock out the reigning champions in the next 2 seasons.

By your logic that would make Longford. and Sligo better sides than Mayo, Cork and Dublin.

I'm struggling to come to terms with your 'logic'. It might be - if another side beat you, ignore it if it doesn't suit your argument.

Then again it mightn't be, because how you rate Galway ahead of Sligo, who in their last two meetings (one was the only competition that matters) beat Galway quite comfortably, is just beyond me.

Why do teams actually play each other at all?
It's to see who is the better team.

Going on RESULTS OF THEIR MOST RECENT MATCHES Sligo are better than Galway.

Syferus

Simply put there is no 2nd places team right now. We (Roscommon) have a very good recent record against Sligo, while Sligo have beat Galway three times running in the championship and we've come nowhere close to Galway in our meetings over the same period.

The only way to answer the question of who is best is for one of us to win the Connacht championship this year.

yabadabado

Ros beaten by 6 points.
2-12 to 2-6.

megadodge

yabadabado wrote: »

Ros beaten by 6 points.
2-12 to 2-6.

Anybody travel?

manofwisdom

Losing to Fermanagh by 6 and by all accounts it could have been double that has to be worrying for any Roscommon follower. I know they are missing the Brigids guys Donal Shine and others but is John Evans bringing through too many young players at once?

Jayob10

manofwisdom wrote: »

Losing to Fermanagh by 6 and by all accounts it could have been double that has to be worrying for any Roscommon follower. I know they are missing the Brigids guys Donal Shine and others but is John Evans bringing through too many young players at once?

went up for a look, Ros were poor it has to be said.

Fermanagh superior in every department, and thats an indictment in itself.

we have some talented youngsters but they are going to have to hit the ground running as the older heads they need to look to are not up to it when the intensity is upped.

Syferus

Let's not place too much weight on this result - Fermanagh are primed for the early season while we got a manager in very late and our injury list read like this by the early second half: Donie Shine, Donal Ward, Cathal Shine, David O'Gara and Cathal Cregg. All five are key players (and by that I mean almost all are cast-iron championship starters) and Cathal Shine aside are among our most experienced players. That a 25 year-old Cregg and a 24 year-old Donie are among our most experienced players tells its own story but by the end of the match we were almost fielding an u21 team and I can't be hard on them, they need time to find their feet at senior and they need the older players there to provide a proper backbone.

Wicklow are nothing special and the three week break to the game should clear up a lot of our injuries in time for Meath's arrival a week later.

Monaghan being hammered by Cavan when everyone was swooning for them after walking over Meath is the perfect illustration of how variable this division is. The worst thing we can do is give up chasing promotion and aim for something as defeatist as survival in Division 3.

rossie1977

Jayob10 wrote: »

we have some talented youngsters

no gameplan, not playing as a team, this has been the problem in roscommon senior football for years, roscommons biggest problem is defending as a team, when someone runs at them its like a hot knife through butter and its not like there isn't talent in that roscommon defense, sigerson winners, all ireland minor winners, under 21 all ireland finalists, fermanagh scoring 2-12 while playing 13 men behind the ball themselves tells a story

we also have no-one to score outside shine, kilbride and young smith, o'gara scores 1 point every 3 games, cregg is good for 1 point a game, keenan never scores, compton 1 point every 2 games, frankie dolan would score more than all those guys listed if he was playing

Always_Running

Reading the report O'Gara,Cathal Cregg both started last night one taken off at half time the other on 54 mintues.

I don't think Fermanagh will be in mix for promotion and that highlights how poor that result was last night. Looks like another year in div 3 for Roscommon unless they can beat Antrim,Cavan away even with all the players back it's doubtful if they will manage to do that?

Syferus

rossie1977 wrote: »

no gameplan, not playing as a team, this has been the problem in roscommon senior football for years, roscommons biggest problem is defending as a team, when someone runs at them its like a hot knife through butter and its not like there isn't talent in that roscommon defense, sigerson winners, all ireland minor winners, under 21 all ireland finalists, fermanagh scoring 2-12 while playing 13 men behind the ball themselves tells a story

we also have no-one to score outside shine, kilbride and young smith, o'gara scores 1 point every 3 games, cregg is good for 1 point a game, keenan never scores, compton 1 point every 2 games, frankie dolan would score more than all those guys listed if he was playing

Ah come off it. Cregg wins most of the frees people you label scoring forwards convert. His strike rate is above a single point a game too. O'Gara is a playmaker, not a main point scorer and Keenan plays as a sweeper, not a traditional half-forward.

Singling out Compton - an incredibly young player by any stretch of the imagination - is very poor form. Compton creates far more chances than most of our forwards and a little more guile with his passing and shot taking is going to net some special scores if we invest in him. You or anyone shouldn't be lambasting him after two or three starts for not scoring enough and definitely not after a game in which, by every account, he was one of the few players who put in an impressive performance.

We 'only' have three 'big scorers', eh? Mayo have none and made the AI final, Donegal had two and won the blasted thing.

We're better off than almost every county in the country in this regard. People severely over-rate natural scorers' abilities to win games - without a solid mixture of attacking backs, midfielders pushing up and players able to put others into space excellent scorers like Donie and Senan will never be able to deliver match-winning end product.

Jayob10

Syferus wrote: »

Ah come off it. Cregg wins most of the frees people you label scoring forwards convert. His strike rate is above a single point a game too. O'Gara is a playmaker, not a main point scorer and Keenan plays as a sweeper, not a traditional half-forward.

Singling out Compton - an incredibly young player by any stretch of the imagination - is very poor form. Compton creates far more chances than most and a little more guile with his passing and shot taking is going to net some special scores if we invest in him. And don't lambast him after two or three starts. He's an absolutely incredible ball winner.

We 'only' have three 'big scorers', eh? Mayo have none and made the AI final, Donegal had two and won the blasted thing.

We're better off than almost every county in the country in this regard. People severely over-rate natural scorers' abilities to win games - without a solid mixture of attacking backs, midfielders pushing up and players able to put others into space excellent scorers like Donie and Senan will never be able to deliver match-winning end product.

Syferus I admire you for being the optimistic Roscommon supporter on the planet.

No offence, but you strike me as a guy who would find the positives in just about any desperately bad performance.

Syferus

Jayob10 wrote: »

Syferus I admire you for being the optimistic Roscommon supporter on the planet.

No offence, but you strike me as a guy who would find the positives in just about any desperately bad performance.

Pardon? I think you look back on the context involved because you've missed a very basic point.

Nothing in that is even approaching optimistic about a bad performance - 1977 was talking about players in general, not just yesterday, and my response was in exactly the same vein.

Jayob10

Syferus wrote: »

Pardon? I think you look back on the context involved because you've missed a very basic point.

Nothing in that is even approaching optimistic about a bad performance - 1977 was talking about players in general, not just yesterday, and my response was in exactly the same vein.

You didn't seem to place too much weight on the Fermanagh result if I read correctly and then proceeded to talk in an aspirational way about what may happen against Monaghan, Cavan etc.. etc....

Lets talk the here and now. You rate alot of these supposedly exceptional younger players alot higher than most.

Best in Roscommon is no standard to judge against.

Strongbow10

Syferus wrote: »

Ah come off it. Cregg wins most of the frees people you label scoring forwards convert. His strike rate is above a single point a game too. O'Gara is a playmaker, not a main point scorer and Keenan plays as a sweeper, not a traditional half-forward.

Singling out Compton - an incredibly young player by any stretch of the imagination - is very poor form. Compton creates far more chances than most of our forwards and a little more guile with his passing and shot taking is going to net some special scores if we invest in him. You or anyone shouldn't be lambasting him after two or three starts for not scoring enough and definitely not after a game in which, by every account, he was one of the few players who put in an impressive performance.

We 'only' have three 'big scorers', eh? Mayo have none and made the AI final, Donegal had two and won the blasted thing.

We're better off than almost every county in the country in this regard. People severely over-rate natural scorers' abilities to win games - without a solid mixture of attacking backs, midfielders pushing up and players able to put others into space excellent scorers like Donie and Senan will never be able to deliver match-winning end product.

quite right, but its also damaging to be hyping him as you do, you give the impression he is the second coming.

Damn all appearances at senior level and completely unproven. Not saying he won't develop into a good gaelic footballer but as of now he is unproven at senior level.

Forget about underage success, players have a clean slate and have to prove themselves all over again once they start playing senior football. And folks will call it as they see it.

Roscommon have talent in their ranks but mentality and leadership is the problem at Senior level. Talent is simply not enough and the jump is huge to senior football. There have been world beaters at minor level who struggled to make an impact at senior level.

Syferus

Eh? Compton's only started for the county three times, he has plenty of potential and right now that's what it just is, potential and not end product. I'm only responding to someone who was criticising his play, which seemed faintly ridiculous given how he played on Saturday.

rossie1977

Syferus wrote: »

We 'only' have three 'big scorers', eh? Mayo have none and made the AI final, Donegal had two and won the blasted thing.

mayo without o'connor, moran and dillon have scored 1-26 last two games against tyrone and kerry, what do you think we would score against those two without kilbride, shine and smith??