Solas to replace Fas

anymore

sparks24 wrote: »

pure ignorance

I have a trade, nearly 2 in fact and a degree and let me tell you something college is a joke compared to an apprenticeship it couldn't hold a candle up to it

I can endorse this view - I spent 5/6 years at night getting a degree. At each years examination, the first people to start leaving the exam hall, after the compulsory first hour of attendance, were the full time students. It was a running joke but really it just showed so many were just passing time in college.I remember siting near two full time students in the canteen discussing how much money they would need going out for a night at the weekend. € 70 0r € 80 was the amount they felt they needed - I was nearly living on that amount at the time.

libra02

anymore wrote: »

I can endorse this view - I spent 5/6 years at night getting a degree. At each years examination, the first people to start leaving the exam hall, after the compulsory first hour of attendance, were the full time students. It was a running joke but really it just showed so many were just passing time in college.I remember siting near two full time students in the canteen discussing how much money they would need going out for a night at the weekend. € 70 0r € 80 was the amount they felt they needed - I was nearly living on that amount at the time.

Look anyone who did any 3rd level course or FAS / VEC etc courses will tell you that there are always people who just treat is as a way to pass time etc.

However you cannot make sweeping generalisation and say just because a samll number of students treat college like this it makes the whole course, college system a joke and look down on anyone who has a degree not an apprenticeship.

These people won't either last the full 3 or 4 years or if lucky will scrap a pass degree.

I am sure you worked damn hard for your degree especially as you were doing it by night so how can you agree and say your degree / 3rd level system is a joke.

anymore

libra02 wrote: »

Look anyone who did any 3rd level course or FAS / VEC etc courses will tell you that there are always people who just treat is as a way to pass time etc.

However you cannot make sweeping generalisation and say just because a samll number of students treat college like this it makes the whole course, college system a joke and look down on anyone who has a degree not an apprenticeship.

These people won't either last the full 3 or 4 years or if lucky will scrap a pass degree.

I am sure you worked damn hard for your degree especially as you were doing it by night so how can you agree and say your degree / 3rd level system is a joke.

Please re-read my post !

libra02

anymore wrote: »

Please re-read my post !

I did and you it comes across as that you agree with the other posters view that college courses are a joke and that apprenticeships are better.

Now I am guessing you do not stand totally by his/ her view and that there are people who just use college as a way to pass time while the majority work hard and get good qualifications which are juts as good as people who qualify in trades.

All I was pointing out is for a bit of defending of the degree's people got and not be like the other poster putting them down. Sorry if you took it as a insult towards you as it was not intended to be.

NapoleonInRags

Nijmegen wrote: »

To be fair, the 1,850 staff in FAS represent its only real contribution to keeping unemployment down in Ireland.

I'd be interested in hearing the evidence behind your dismissal of the value of almost 2,000 workers, to be fair.

Secondly, I would welcome your views on how a training agency is supposed to 'keep unemployment down'?

nwoscum

Libra.
FÁS don't do level 8 awards (but if they did...lol)....so don't expect Solas to either...if someone has a degree already and is looking for a step up can I suggest a masters. But you would expect someone with a degree to have the smarts to work that out for themselves...

Dannyboy83

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

LOL, no idea.

Why do they keep picking names which most people don't seem to be able to pronounce?

I've already heard people calling it 'Soul-less':D

libra02

nwoscum wrote: »

Libra.
FÁS don't do level 8 awards (but if they did...lol)....so don't expect Solas to either...if someone has a degree already and is looking for a step up can I suggest a masters. But you would expect someone with a degree to have the smarts to work that out for themselves...

Wow. No need to be so snotty. :eek:

I think the majority of people know that Solas will be no different from FAS. HOWEVER and here is my point the way the Gov is going on they are saying this new agency is to provide training, education etc for all the unemployed regardless of what educational qualifications they already posess.

So once again to make my point is the Gov should cut the bull and say look Solas is not suited to those who have Degree's, we can do nothing for you and it is up to those individuals to try to scrap together over €3,000 to up-skill or re-train.

nwoscum

@libra02
Well then the majority of people would be wrong....Solas will NOT be running any training courses when this change his fully implemented...Solas will be another oversight body (like we need yet another oversight body)....Simply put the role solas have been given is to decide which courses should be run and thier budgets, direction of future skills needs etc....(the very same people who ran FÁS into the ground are going to suddenly work wonders...lol)...
The VEC's (when they are restructured also) will be responsible for running ALL training previously organised by FÁS....
Initially all we will notice is a name change...the rest is suppose to change over (according to quinny) a number of years so in that respect your probably right you wont notice any change initially...
The level of courses will remain the same you will not be able to get a Masters from VEC/Solas... Horses for courses....
So if you want to Upskill and have "2 degree's" already...guess which direction you should go.....
would you criticise a primary/seconday school for not running "upskilling" courses for someone with 2 degrees....No
So why would anyone criticise the VEC/FÁS/Solas for not offering the same.
Adult training in FÁS (I'm not talking about apprenticeship) was really only ever meant as a stepping stone for those long term unemployed or those early school leavers...FÁS like all government departments lost sight of it's role and became a "jack of all trades master of none" training organisation....Which is why its in the mess its in now....
I think its a positive move for all those in need of "this level" of training..however I have doubts about how long this will take to pan out...hopefully the get their fingers out and the change doesn't take too long but I wont be holding my breath....

P.S.
please read all of the story in whatever newspaper/website you get your info from ...don't just skim over them....

bmarley

I do not see the point in changing the name as it will have the same trainers, supervisors, board etc. I think the whole scheme (what ever it is called) is a total waste of time. Take a quick look at their employment website and you will notice that almost everything advertised is on a placement scheme. I, myself, am qualified to post grad level and do not wish to go on a placement scheme for nine months. I have a mortgage to pay and need a real job. And to go on a scheme anyway, I need to have been unemployed for ...how long? And what about the person who's partner is working and is not eligible for such a scheme...?It's a joke, a scam ...to take people off the live register. In the sector I have worked in for the last 10 years, there is not one "job" advertised, it's all training/placement positions. Why pay an experience, qualified person when you can get someone for nothing..that's what the management would think. I know different in the quality/standards of work one could expect. Get lost fas or Solas or whatever you want to be called..move yourselves to a different county.

libra02

bmarley wrote: »

I do not see the point in changing the name as it will have the same trainers, supervisors, board etc. I think the whole scheme (what ever it is called) is a total waste of time. Take a quick look at their employment website and you will notice that almost everything advertised is on a placement scheme. I, myself, am qualified to post grad level and do not wish to go on a placement scheme for nine months. I have a mortgage to pay and need a real job. And to go on a scheme anyway, I need to have been unemployed for ...how long? And what about the person who's partner is working and is not eligible for such a scheme...?It's a joke, a scam ...to take people off the live register. In the sector I have worked in for the last 10 years, there is not one "job" advertised, it's all training/placement positions. Why pay an experience, qualified person when you can get someone for nothing..that's what the management would think. I know different in the quality/standards of work one could expect. Get lost fas or Solas or whatever you want to be called..move yourselves to a different county.

Exactly you hit the nail on the head there. It is a rebranding exercise with a few cosmetic changes being made by introducing new courses etc but overall the same people are running it.

It also is not adressing the needs of alot of the recently unemployed. As you said you are educated to a post grad level so this new agency can do noting for you, the Gov have no interest in people who have such education, they hope you just feck off out of the contry and not bother them. Shame when the Gov has no interest in the people who contributed and helped drive the economy.

With other thread here dealing with the internship programme which is basically free labour for the employers I won't bother repeating alot of what has been said.

siltirocker

libra02 wrote: »

Exactly you hit the nail on the head there. It is a rebranding exercise with a few cosmetic changes being made by introducing new courses etc but overall the same people are running it.

It also is not adressing the needs of alot of the recently unemployed. As you said you are educated to a post grad level so this new agency can do noting for you, the Gov have no interest in people who have such education, they hope you just feck off out of the contry and not bother them. Shame when the Gov has no interest in the people who contributed and helped drive the economy.

With other thread here dealing with the internship programme which is basically free labour for the employers I won't bother repeating alot of what has been said.

From what I've read and learnt about this and through my dealings with FAS you are so far off the mark on what they do. As it seems are many. Only 2 or 3 people thus have seemed to show they know how FAS works on this thread.

The whole process and screening is being changed. The courses are being run by a whole new sector. The same people are running the admin. but the screening and training is different.

FAS train people in new skills. . . that's it. They're not here to cut unemployment (yes, i know they do have an ESO). They're not here to bump you up in your current field. etc. FAS isn't for the qualified, never has been. That'd be a grad school you're looking for.

That being said, this shake up is essential FAS have lost site of what they were doing.

Count Dooku

siltirocker wrote: »

FAS train people in new skills. . .

twice without any result

UNEMPLOYED people are being placed on the same FAS courses they have already completed.

The damning indictment of the state's training system -- uncovered by the Irish Independent -- can be revealed today.

The practice means the number on the Live Register is kept artificially lower

Farce as FAS puts jobless on courses a second time

El Soarab

Will the lightbulb crowd not be suing over this, taking their trademark and all?

libra02

Count Dooku wrote: »

twice without any result

Farce as FAS puts jobless on courses a second time

I was just about to post this. Thanks

FAS cannot even offer to train alot of people in new skills are one they do not offer any course which are relevant to today's climate.

To the other poster I know wxactly what FAS does however my issue is the Gov does not seem to know and is promoting it as a solve all problem to unemployed people which it is not. You missing the point.

The Gov are telling people such as architects, engineers etc to re-train but yet are not doing anything to help them. FAS is useless to them, very few 3rd level course are covered by Gov schemes so they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. These are people who are willing to go back and work hard to re-train in a different area and then get employement but the Gov seems to have no interest. Putting money in here now will go a long way to getting the recently unemployed back to work and in area where there are jobs.

nwoscum

@ siltirocker
It's very difficult to get thru to people on this thread when they won't read facts.
They put themselves up as educated people...universities need investigating if this is the kind of mindless morons they're churning out.
As for the indo article today
The facts are people start courses and drop out for personal reasons (health family etc) all the time.
Then surprise surprise request or are placed ...yes.... again on the same course...shock horror....
If they weren't catered for I guess the indo would be writing an article on how FÁS were not accommodating people....
If any of you are interested in training can I suggest you look up your local vec offerings this is were all your training will be from when FÁS is closed.....
Enjoy

Count Dooku

nwoscum wrote: »

@ siltirocker
It's very difficult to get thru to people on this thread when they won't read facts.
They put themselves up as educated people...universities need investigating if this is the kind of mindless morons they're churning out.
As for the indo article today
The facts are people start courses and drop out for personal reasons (health family etc) all the time.
Then surprise surprise request or are placed ...yes.... again on the same course...shock horror....

From article

Last night, FAS confirmed that a number of unemployed had completed the full ECDL course more than once

completed doesn't mean dropped

wandatowell

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

SOLAS = Safety Of Life At Sea

nwoscum

I just love the careful selection of comments...you should think about journalism..lol
But if you dig a little deeper and look at facts....have you noticed over the years that Microsoft change and update versions of its office suite....now if you wish to keep updated... Could it be conceivable that you may wish to test yourself with the latest version's...say 2010 ....that would mean taking ecdl again...shock horror....now if a training advisor tried to block you because you already took an older version 8 years ago...I wonder how you would react to that ......now if your unemployed go focus your anger on the government and bankers the real cause of all your woes...

nwoscum

@libra
At last your getting it...your starting to focus your anger on a government that offers nothing to the group of people you seem to belong to....FÁS is being used as a distraction from the real issue...I.T.s/universitys should be stepping up to the plate to offer you a solution....FÁS/VEC are for a different group of unemployed....

libra02

nwoscum wrote: »

@libra
At last your getting it...your starting to focus your anger on a government that offers nothing to the group of people you seem to belong to....FÁS is being used as a distraction from the real issue...I.T.s/universitys should be stepping up to the plate to offer you a solution....FÁS/VEC are for a different group of unemployed....

Actually Uni /IT's are stepping up to the mark & are offering plenty of courses for re-training / re-skilling. HOWEVER & here is the point you seem either to not want to understand or are not able to grasp how can recently unemployed people fund these. The majority of courses are not available under current Gov schemes, they won't fund distance learning etc. It is a requirement to register with FAS and have to deal with them to get what your entitled to, the Gov are directing people to them, threatening to cut people off if they do not do courses, even though FAS are telling them they cannot do anything for them. The GOVERNMENT are the problem. Mr Quinn being one of the main problems.

So how the hell are people who are willing to return to college are going to be able to afford registeration fees, books, live in the meantime. I know exaclty what is and is to available to people and believe me it is very limited.

By your comments here it is clear you DO NOT understand the real situation out there.

Pick up today Indo and there is another story of a girl in the same situation and how usless Gov agencies are to deal with current unemployement problems.

Also you would want to withfraw your extremely ignorant remarks about college educated people here being morans as they are the ones who have a grasp on what is happeneing and do not believe Gov spin.

And by the way FAS are a Gov run agency so are one in the same and I think people have a right to direct anger at them. They have come out and now openly admitted they can do nothing for 3rd level educated but instead of them putting pressure on the Gov to help them with these problems what did they do help massage the figures, waste places on courses other people might need by forcing people who have already taken the course to retake it. So they are as bad as the fat cat we currently have sitting in Dail Eireann.

Count Dooku

nwoscum wrote: »

I just love the careful selection of comments...you should think about journalism..lol
But if you dig a little deeper and look at facts....have you noticed over the years that Microsoft change and update versions of its office suite....now if you wish to keep updated... Could it be conceivable that you may wish to test yourself with the latest version's...say 2010 ....that would mean taking ecdl again...shock horror....now if a training advisor tried to block you because you already took an older version 8 years ago...I wonder how you would react to that ......now if your unemployed go focus your anger on the government and bankers the real cause of all your woes...

Does it means that people have to pass driving test everytime they buy a new car? :rolleyes:
There is no difference between office 2000 and 2010 on level how ECDL teach it.

libra02

Count Dooku wrote: »

Does it means that people have to pass driving test everytime they buy a new car? :rolleyes:
There is no difference between office 2000 and 2010 on level how ECDL teach it.

nwoscum seems to have a little problem understand the difference between completed and dropped out.

So the idea that ECDL is the same now as it was in 2000 well .....

nwoscum

1. Microsoft like all software manufacturers update software regularly.
2. You need to keep your skills relevant. If this means retaking ecdl or any other course so be it. Regardless of what some hack in the indo tells you.
3. If you possess 2 degrees your next obvious step is a masters.
4. If the state won't pay for you stop whining (and I mean that in a nice way) and either lobby your politicians or do what I did in the 80's during the last recession and fund it yourself. I personally know people currently doing just this ....
It's not easy but while your posting here others are educating themselves.
5. Even if you do get your act together chances of you getting a job are not good...and no sign in the near future of it improving
6. Lobby your politicians....they are ultimately responsible....
7. Start your own business
8. Emigrate
9. Stop getting all your information from one source particularly the indo...every reporter has their own agenda...just like you and I ...we'll never agree ...you have your opinion and I have mine...
I have read thru this and realise it sounds cold in places but you need to look at your situation free from the emotions of anger your having if you are going to dig yourself out of this mess.
Your fast realizing this...which is why your rightly angry.
Whatever you decide I wish you well...seriously
I have been where you seem to be in the 80s its not a nice place...
Good luck.

libra02

nwoscum wrote: »

1. Microsoft like all software manufacturers update software regularly.
2. You need to keep your skills relevant. If this means retaking ecdl or any other course so be it. Regardless of what some hack in the indo tells you.
3. If you possess 2 degrees your next obvious step is a masters.
4. If the state won't pay for you stop whining (and I mean that in a nice way) and either lobby your politicians or do what I did in the 80's during the last recession and fund it yourself. I personally know people currently doing just this ....
It's not easy but while your posting here others are educating themselves.
5. Even if you do get your act together chances of you getting a job are not good...and no sign in the near future of it improving
6. Lobby your politicians....they are ultimately responsible....
7. Start your own business
8. Emigrate
9. Stop getting all your information from one source particularly the indo...every reporter has their own agenda...just like you and I ...we'll never agree ...you have your opinion and I have mine...
I have read thru this and realise it sounds cold in places but you need to look at your situation free from the emotions of anger your having if you are going to dig yourself out of this mess.
Your fast realizing this...which is why your rightly angry.
Whatever you decide I wish you well...seriously
I have been where you seem to be in the 80s its not a nice place...
Good luck.

Wow aren't you a little rain of sunshine. I am not going to be into a long winded and and discusion over thnigs as you have stuck in your opinion and no matter what info you are given you won't change this.

However I will say I do not get my info from Independent. All I am pointing out is they are now bringing to attention FACTS and stories of what is going on with some people in this country. Just because rest of media have deciced to ignore it does not make it untrue or some journalistist agenda. If you are unwilling to believe media and people here who are telling you the real situation well that is your issue. I am getting the feeling you must be connected with FAS /Civil Service in some way as you think the media and unemployed peole are making up to things. Try to meet some recently unemployed people with 3rd levels degress trying to re-train / get jobs in this country and they will tell you REALITY.

I am not going to bother adressing rest of points re education etc as I have already given you the realities and they seem to be going over your head.

All I can say is just becasue you survived the 80 recession does not mean the current one will progress same way. Times are very very different and the majority of recently unemployed people in this country are doing everything and anything to get themselves back to work / education but are being hindered and hitting a brick wall each time due to Goverment policies.
So yes people have a right to be annoyed when the Gov is acusing them of doing nothing when the Gov themselves are just playing a PR game.


So drop the patronising tone, try to look beyond the Gov spin and remember it is the current unemployed generation who are going to be providing for your future of OAP, free bus passes etc.

nwoscum

nwoscum

Have a nice life blaming everyone else for the choices you made...

bmarley

nwoscum wrote: »

@ siltirocker
It's very difficult to get thru to people on this thread when they won't read facts.
They put themselves up as educated people...universities need investigating if this is the kind of mindless morons they're churning out.
As for the indo article today
The facts are people start courses and drop out for personal reasons (health family etc) all the time.
Then surprise surprise request or are placed ...yes.... again on the same course...shock horror....
If they weren't catered for I guess the indo would be writing an article on how FÁS were not accommodating people....
If any of you are interested in training can I suggest you look up your local vec offerings this is were all your training will be from when FÁS is closed.....
Enjoy

Are you an educated person or a fas trainer?

nwoscum

Is it not possible to be both?

IRISHREDSTAR

manpower - anco- then fas now solas how long will the name solas last, it's a bit like windscale now called sellafield after the worst nuclear nightmare in the uk.
Just change the name

fas is a disgrace it costs billions and the only jobs they make are the own highly paid cushy numbers teaching Silly little short term mickey mouse courses to people who are forced to attend or lose their dole.

What happened to all the election promises to abolish fas