Solas to replace Fas

rodento

Hope its not a case of the emperor's new clothes:rolleyes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0727/solas.html
The Government has approved the establishment of a new education and training authority, which will be called SOLAS.
The new body will replace FÁS, which is to be disbanded.

Pity the poor feckers who have Fas qualifications:(

anymore

Just how much will thius rebranding and marketing exercise cost ? And how many of FAS officials will simply be transferred into this new body ?

wes

Seems like a pointless waste of money and smacks of a rebranding.

Outkast_IRE

Went through my entire apprenticeship with Fas , they were always on the ball with me but thats only because i knew someone working in there, others tell me about phonecalls never returned etc .

One thing i would say for phase 4 and 6 of your apprencticship you go to an Institute of tech , would it not make more sense to send you to the IT for all your learning phases , for techincal courses such as electrican and plumbing etc the ITs have all the facilites you need already, so why not just consolidate the whole thing .

anymore

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Went through my entire apprenticeship with Fas , they were always on the ball with me but thats only because i knew someone working in there, others tell me about phonecalls never returned etc .

One thing i would say for phase 4 and 6 of your apprencticship you go to an Institute of tech , would it not make more sense to send you to the IT for all your learning phases , for techincal courses such as electrican and plumbing etc the ITs have all the facilites you need already, so why not just consolidate the whole thing .

The oronic thing is that in Cork the big FAS main building is directly accross the road from CIT !

rodento

Hope it's not going to be the case of light by name and light by nature...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Outkast_IRE

anymore wrote: »

The oronic thing is that in Cork the big FAS main building is directly accross the road from CIT !

Yup thats where i did all my phases , some excellent lectuers there

tallaghtmick

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

cant be too sure but its along the lines of services of education and skills for people/public?????

libra02

Won't make on ounce of difference. Mainly be made up of same people and same course but with new poshed up names.

If I heard correctly on the news apparently trades won't be offered as much and they are going to have news course for our new environment.

Right I can see where they are going but some of the problems I have are

1) I am not insulting anyone here but some people are not suited to a whole acedemic career and are better in skilled trades. So what about these people are they going to be throw in a course they are not suited to or able for.

2) The Gov think by having FAS / Solas offering courses in IT etc that this will slove all their problems. The Gov using the example of US companies having 3,000 jobs and nobody able to fill them here. They think that a course by FAS will be enough to fill these jobs. No it won't these courses are a stepping stone to further education never mind say that the example I used above are highly skilled jobs which even graduate from IT/ Uni would not be able to fill without a few years of experience.
I just feel the course won't be living up to what they described.

3) I can use my own example here but what will this new FAS do for unemployed people who already hold Degrees/ Master etc. I was told by FAS I was overqualified for them and they could do nothing for me.
Now if I want to do any other course or re-train in a different field I would have to try to get the fees of €4,000 to pay for a course.
Can this "new agency" help these people & by that I do not mean throwing a list of college courses at them.

Count Dooku

At least it will allow to forget all results of major disciplinary investigation into the conduct of FAS staff
SIPTU to force court move in FAS row

DubCul

In 1987 the infamous CJ decided to take the running of Social Employment Schemes (now Community Employment) from the Dept. of Social Welfare.

He saddled a very good organisation, AnCO, with a scheme with little or no training content. He appointed a new chairman and in the process
destroyed staff motivation.

The new organisation was called FAS, which will be forever associated with nepotism and waste.

Now, in their wisdom, politicians have decided after 13 1/2 years it did not work. So return schemes to Social Welfare, lol. Anyone in the training business could have told them that in 1987.

Remember when you criticise state organisations, staff do not decide policy, politicians do and everybody knows their track record.

rodento

Just heard on the radio, its the same people just stretched more

Mars Bar

Hope this doesn't mean some courses will get the chop. Waiting on a FÁS course in conjunction with the FAI to be contracted for the women's soccer course.

mgerallen

How long will it take to get this up and running?

Valmont

mgerallen wrote: »

How long will it take to get this up and running?

One quango + 100,000,000 euro I reckon at the very least:p

Similar to the money one quango wants for overhauling the leaving certificate.

jumpguy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Services of Continuing Education and Skills I think.

Nijmegen

I'll believe them when I see the results. In the meantime FAS and its brushed up successor are just big circular filing cabinetry for putting unemployed people into to say you're doing something with them.

Liam Byrne

Did Marathon change when it became known as Snickers?

Complete bullcrap optics

nwoscum

Just to clarify ...Solas will have NO TRAINING COURSES...vec and private training will be delivering all courses including apprenticeship ...Solas will be administration only.

nwoscum

Just to clarify ...Solas will have NO TRAINING COURSES...vec and private training will be delivering all courses including apprenticeship ...Solas will be administration only.

anymore

So I wonder of that means FAS will be implementing a big redundancy programme ?

rodento

Not a chance, people working in FAS will be the same working in solas, just a greator workload :rolleyes:

sparks24

libra02 wrote: »

Won't make on ounce of difference. Mainly be made up of same people and same course but with new poshed up names.

If I heard correctly on the news apparently trades won't be offered as much and they are going to have news course for our new environment.

Right I can see where they are going but some of the problems I have are

1) I am not insulting anyone here but some people are not suited to a whole acedemic career and are better in skilled trades. So what about these people are they going to be throw in a course they are not suited to or able for.

2) The Gov think by having FAS / Solas offering courses in IT etc that this will slove all their problems. The Gov using the example of US companies having 3,000 jobs and nobody able to fill them here. They think that a course by FAS will be enough to fill these jobs. No it won't these courses are a stepping stone to further education never mind say that the example I used above are highly skilled jobs which even graduate from IT/ Uni would not be able to fill without a few years of experience.
I just feel the course won't be living up to what they described.

3) I can use my own example here but what will this new FAS do for unemployed people who already hold Degrees/ Master etc. I was told by FAS I was overqualified for them and they could do nothing for me.
Now if I want to do any other course or re-train in a different field I would have to try to get the fees of €4,000 to pay for a course.
Can this "new agency" help these people & by that I do not mean throwing a list of college courses at them.

pure ignorance

I have a trade, nearly 2 in fact and a degree and let me tell you something college is a joke compared to an apprenticeship it couldn't hold a candle up to it

jurahnimoh

What a bright idea!!

nwoscum

Solas will have 350 staff (approx) leaving the remaining approx 1500 staff to be transferred to dept of social protection and VEC. As per croke park agreement there will be no redundancy in return for 20% pay cut and pay freeze for duration. Plus cooperation with changes being implemented. I have heard that there will be voluntary redundancy scheme introduced in an effort to reduce costs further.

Laminations

nwoscum wrote: »

Solas will have 350 staff (approx) leaving the remaining approx 1500 staff to be transferred to dept of social protection and VEC. As per croke park agreement there will be no redundancy in return for 20% pay cut and pay freeze for duration. Plus cooperation with changes being implemented. I have heard that there will be voluntary redundancy scheme introduced in an effort to reduce costs further.

Wow 1500 staff. Maybe the older ones will be offered early retirement? And hopefully the rest are assigned to the 'welfare fraud and scam-artistry division' and that they make some savings there.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Makey uppy bearlachas, that's what

goose2005

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Continuing Education and Skill Services. Bad CESS to them... I'll get me coat.

Nijmegen

To be fair, the 1,850 staff in FAS represent its only real contribution to keeping unemployment down in Ireland.

libra02

sparks24 wrote: »

pure ignorance

I have a trade, nearly 2 in fact and a degree and let me tell you something college is a joke compared to an apprenticeship it couldn't hold a candle up to it

Sorry where the hell do you think I was being ignorant.

I was not saying anything against trades, they are highly skilled also and vital.
Personally your attitude to people who have done college courses is ignorant. I hold 2 degrees and my courses were tough and I worked damn hard to get an Honours Degree in both of them. Of courses apprenticeships are hard but there are no harder than someone doing a Chemistery / Engineering/ Business Degree.

Both these sets of people are highly educated and need courses offered which are another step up in same area or of the same level in a new area. However my point is I cannot see this happening with the new agency as it certainly didn't happen in last one.

The point I was making that going on the sketchy infomration the Gov is giving out this new agency is not going to make a damn difference to the unemployed.

anymore

sparks24 wrote: »

pure ignorance

I have a trade, nearly 2 in fact and a degree and let me tell you something college is a joke compared to an apprenticeship it couldn't hold a candle up to it

I can endorse this view - I spent 5/6 years at night getting a degree. At each years examination, the first people to start leaving the exam hall, after the compulsory first hour of attendance, were the full time students. It was a running joke but really it just showed so many were just passing time in college.I remember siting near two full time students in the canteen discussing how much money they would need going out for a night at the weekend. € 70 0r € 80 was the amount they felt they needed - I was nearly living on that amount at the time.

libra02

anymore wrote: »

I can endorse this view - I spent 5/6 years at night getting a degree. At each years examination, the first people to start leaving the exam hall, after the compulsory first hour of attendance, were the full time students. It was a running joke but really it just showed so many were just passing time in college.I remember siting near two full time students in the canteen discussing how much money they would need going out for a night at the weekend. € 70 0r € 80 was the amount they felt they needed - I was nearly living on that amount at the time.

Look anyone who did any 3rd level course or FAS / VEC etc courses will tell you that there are always people who just treat is as a way to pass time etc.

However you cannot make sweeping generalisation and say just because a samll number of students treat college like this it makes the whole course, college system a joke and look down on anyone who has a degree not an apprenticeship.

These people won't either last the full 3 or 4 years or if lucky will scrap a pass degree.

I am sure you worked damn hard for your degree especially as you were doing it by night so how can you agree and say your degree / 3rd level system is a joke.

anymore

libra02 wrote: »

Look anyone who did any 3rd level course or FAS / VEC etc courses will tell you that there are always people who just treat is as a way to pass time etc.

However you cannot make sweeping generalisation and say just because a samll number of students treat college like this it makes the whole course, college system a joke and look down on anyone who has a degree not an apprenticeship.

These people won't either last the full 3 or 4 years or if lucky will scrap a pass degree.

I am sure you worked damn hard for your degree especially as you were doing it by night so how can you agree and say your degree / 3rd level system is a joke.

Please re-read my post !

libra02

anymore wrote: »

Please re-read my post !

I did and you it comes across as that you agree with the other posters view that college courses are a joke and that apprenticeships are better.

Now I am guessing you do not stand totally by his/ her view and that there are people who just use college as a way to pass time while the majority work hard and get good qualifications which are juts as good as people who qualify in trades.

All I was pointing out is for a bit of defending of the degree's people got and not be like the other poster putting them down. Sorry if you took it as a insult towards you as it was not intended to be.

NapoleonInRags

Nijmegen wrote: »

To be fair, the 1,850 staff in FAS represent its only real contribution to keeping unemployment down in Ireland.

I'd be interested in hearing the evidence behind your dismissal of the value of almost 2,000 workers, to be fair.

Secondly, I would welcome your views on how a training agency is supposed to 'keep unemployment down'?

nwoscum

Libra.
FÁS don't do level 8 awards (but if they did...lol)....so don't expect Solas to either...if someone has a degree already and is looking for a step up can I suggest a masters. But you would expect someone with a degree to have the smarts to work that out for themselves...

Dannyboy83

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

LOL, no idea.

Why do they keep picking names which most people don't seem to be able to pronounce?

I've already heard people calling it 'Soul-less':D

libra02

nwoscum wrote: »

Libra.
FÁS don't do level 8 awards (but if they did...lol)....so don't expect Solas to either...if someone has a degree already and is looking for a step up can I suggest a masters. But you would expect someone with a degree to have the smarts to work that out for themselves...

Wow. No need to be so snotty. :eek:

I think the majority of people know that Solas will be no different from FAS. HOWEVER and here is my point the way the Gov is going on they are saying this new agency is to provide training, education etc for all the unemployed regardless of what educational qualifications they already posess.

So once again to make my point is the Gov should cut the bull and say look Solas is not suited to those who have Degree's, we can do nothing for you and it is up to those individuals to try to scrap together over €3,000 to up-skill or re-train.

nwoscum

@libra02
Well then the majority of people would be wrong....Solas will NOT be running any training courses when this change his fully implemented...Solas will be another oversight body (like we need yet another oversight body)....Simply put the role solas have been given is to decide which courses should be run and thier budgets, direction of future skills needs etc....(the very same people who ran FÁS into the ground are going to suddenly work wonders...lol)...
The VEC's (when they are restructured also) will be responsible for running ALL training previously organised by FÁS....
Initially all we will notice is a name change...the rest is suppose to change over (according to quinny) a number of years so in that respect your probably right you wont notice any change initially...
The level of courses will remain the same you will not be able to get a Masters from VEC/Solas... Horses for courses....
So if you want to Upskill and have "2 degree's" already...guess which direction you should go.....
would you criticise a primary/seconday school for not running "upskilling" courses for someone with 2 degrees....No
So why would anyone criticise the VEC/FÁS/Solas for not offering the same.
Adult training in FÁS (I'm not talking about apprenticeship) was really only ever meant as a stepping stone for those long term unemployed or those early school leavers...FÁS like all government departments lost sight of it's role and became a "jack of all trades master of none" training organisation....Which is why its in the mess its in now....
I think its a positive move for all those in need of "this level" of training..however I have doubts about how long this will take to pan out...hopefully the get their fingers out and the change doesn't take too long but I wont be holding my breath....

P.S.
please read all of the story in whatever newspaper/website you get your info from ...don't just skim over them....

bmarley

I do not see the point in changing the name as it will have the same trainers, supervisors, board etc. I think the whole scheme (what ever it is called) is a total waste of time. Take a quick look at their employment website and you will notice that almost everything advertised is on a placement scheme. I, myself, am qualified to post grad level and do not wish to go on a placement scheme for nine months. I have a mortgage to pay and need a real job. And to go on a scheme anyway, I need to have been unemployed for ...how long? And what about the person who's partner is working and is not eligible for such a scheme...?It's a joke, a scam ...to take people off the live register. In the sector I have worked in for the last 10 years, there is not one "job" advertised, it's all training/placement positions. Why pay an experience, qualified person when you can get someone for nothing..that's what the management would think. I know different in the quality/standards of work one could expect. Get lost fas or Solas or whatever you want to be called..move yourselves to a different county.

libra02

bmarley wrote: »

I do not see the point in changing the name as it will have the same trainers, supervisors, board etc. I think the whole scheme (what ever it is called) is a total waste of time. Take a quick look at their employment website and you will notice that almost everything advertised is on a placement scheme. I, myself, am qualified to post grad level and do not wish to go on a placement scheme for nine months. I have a mortgage to pay and need a real job. And to go on a scheme anyway, I need to have been unemployed for ...how long? And what about the person who's partner is working and is not eligible for such a scheme...?It's a joke, a scam ...to take people off the live register. In the sector I have worked in for the last 10 years, there is not one "job" advertised, it's all training/placement positions. Why pay an experience, qualified person when you can get someone for nothing..that's what the management would think. I know different in the quality/standards of work one could expect. Get lost fas or Solas or whatever you want to be called..move yourselves to a different county.

Exactly you hit the nail on the head there. It is a rebranding exercise with a few cosmetic changes being made by introducing new courses etc but overall the same people are running it.

It also is not adressing the needs of alot of the recently unemployed. As you said you are educated to a post grad level so this new agency can do noting for you, the Gov have no interest in people who have such education, they hope you just feck off out of the contry and not bother them. Shame when the Gov has no interest in the people who contributed and helped drive the economy.

With other thread here dealing with the internship programme which is basically free labour for the employers I won't bother repeating alot of what has been said.

siltirocker

libra02 wrote: »

Exactly you hit the nail on the head there. It is a rebranding exercise with a few cosmetic changes being made by introducing new courses etc but overall the same people are running it.

It also is not adressing the needs of alot of the recently unemployed. As you said you are educated to a post grad level so this new agency can do noting for you, the Gov have no interest in people who have such education, they hope you just feck off out of the contry and not bother them. Shame when the Gov has no interest in the people who contributed and helped drive the economy.

With other thread here dealing with the internship programme which is basically free labour for the employers I won't bother repeating alot of what has been said.

From what I've read and learnt about this and through my dealings with FAS you are so far off the mark on what they do. As it seems are many. Only 2 or 3 people thus have seemed to show they know how FAS works on this thread.

The whole process and screening is being changed. The courses are being run by a whole new sector. The same people are running the admin. but the screening and training is different.

FAS train people in new skills. . . that's it. They're not here to cut unemployment (yes, i know they do have an ESO). They're not here to bump you up in your current field. etc. FAS isn't for the qualified, never has been. That'd be a grad school you're looking for.

That being said, this shake up is essential FAS have lost site of what they were doing.

Count Dooku

siltirocker wrote: »

FAS train people in new skills. . .

twice without any result

UNEMPLOYED people are being placed on the same FAS courses they have already completed.

The damning indictment of the state's training system -- uncovered by the Irish Independent -- can be revealed today.

The practice means the number on the Live Register is kept artificially lower

Farce as FAS puts jobless on courses a second time

El Soarab

Will the lightbulb crowd not be suing over this, taking their trademark and all?

libra02

Count Dooku wrote: »

twice without any result

Farce as FAS puts jobless on courses a second time

I was just about to post this. Thanks

FAS cannot even offer to train alot of people in new skills are one they do not offer any course which are relevant to today's climate.

To the other poster I know wxactly what FAS does however my issue is the Gov does not seem to know and is promoting it as a solve all problem to unemployed people which it is not. You missing the point.

The Gov are telling people such as architects, engineers etc to re-train but yet are not doing anything to help them. FAS is useless to them, very few 3rd level course are covered by Gov schemes so they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. These are people who are willing to go back and work hard to re-train in a different area and then get employement but the Gov seems to have no interest. Putting money in here now will go a long way to getting the recently unemployed back to work and in area where there are jobs.

nwoscum

@ siltirocker
It's very difficult to get thru to people on this thread when they won't read facts.
They put themselves up as educated people...universities need investigating if this is the kind of mindless morons they're churning out.
As for the indo article today
The facts are people start courses and drop out for personal reasons (health family etc) all the time.
Then surprise surprise request or are placed ...yes.... again on the same course...shock horror....
If they weren't catered for I guess the indo would be writing an article on how FÁS were not accommodating people....
If any of you are interested in training can I suggest you look up your local vec offerings this is were all your training will be from when FÁS is closed.....
Enjoy

Count Dooku

nwoscum wrote: »

@ siltirocker
It's very difficult to get thru to people on this thread when they won't read facts.
They put themselves up as educated people...universities need investigating if this is the kind of mindless morons they're churning out.
As for the indo article today
The facts are people start courses and drop out for personal reasons (health family etc) all the time.
Then surprise surprise request or are placed ...yes.... again on the same course...shock horror....

From article

Last night, FAS confirmed that a number of unemployed had completed the full ECDL course more than once

completed doesn't mean dropped

wandatowell

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

SOLAS = Safety Of Life At Sea

nwoscum

I just love the careful selection of comments...you should think about journalism..lol
But if you dig a little deeper and look at facts....have you noticed over the years that Microsoft change and update versions of its office suite....now if you wish to keep updated... Could it be conceivable that you may wish to test yourself with the latest version's...say 2010 ....that would mean taking ecdl again...shock horror....now if a training advisor tried to block you because you already took an older version 8 years ago...I wonder how you would react to that ......now if your unemployed go focus your anger on the government and bankers the real cause of all your woes...

nwoscum

@libra
At last your getting it...your starting to focus your anger on a government that offers nothing to the group of people you seem to belong to....FÁS is being used as a distraction from the real issue...I.T.s/universitys should be stepping up to the plate to offer you a solution....FÁS/VEC are for a different group of unemployed....