Vatican "surprised", "disappointed" by "excessive reactions", recalls

hatrickpatrick

WOW. :eek:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26church.html?_r=1

Am I the only one who is surprised by this? I sincerely hope Enda Kenny stands his ground, no matter what is thrown in his face by these "holy" people. The people of Ireland, Enda, religious or otherwise, stand with you.

A spokesman for the Vatican said that recalling a nunzio, the church’s equivalent of an ambassador, was a rare move that “denoted the seriousness of the situation,” as well the Holy See’s “will to deal with it with objectivity and determination.”

The spokesman, Rev. Ciro Benedettini, told reporters on Monday that Archbishop Leanza would return to Rome to consult with Vatican officials who are preparing the Holy See’s official response to the Irish government, but added that the decision “does not exclude some degree of surprise and disappointment at certain excessive reactions.”

The report caused a firestorm in the majority Catholic country, where for first time Irish lawmakers aimed their ire at the Vatican directly, and not at local church leaders.

In unprecedented remarks, Prime Minister Enda Kenny last week decried “the dysfunction, disconnection, elitism, and the narcissism, that dominate the culture of the Vatican to this day.” Last week the Irish parliament also passed a motion decrying the Vatican’s role in “undermining child protection frameworks.”

In a statement issued on Monday, the Vatican said it was recalling Archbishop Leanza following the release of the Cloyne Report “and in particular, the reactions that ensued.”

Sickening. Absolutely mind bogglingly sickening.

Emiko

They should rename him the Papal Nonce-io.

TouchingVirus

I was just about to post this. What sort of statement was that? It has to be a joke - surely even in canon law covering up rapes is wrong? If they don't agree, then fcuk off and don't ever darken the doors of Ireland again is my opinion.

MagicSean

Excessive reaction? Is there such a thing when it comes to multiple child rapes?

Liam Byrne

The phrase that comes to mind is that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

It was the Vatican's (in)action that prompted the reaction, and that reaction was no more "excessive" than a firefighter pointing the hose in the direction of the source of the fire.

An "excessive" reaction would have been to - say - kick out all priests and clergy, or to post guards on every priest and bishop (the reminder is required that some of them are decent people).

The issue, I suspect, is that the reaction was so long overdue that it finally broadsided the Vatican because they had assumed they had carte blanche to do what they damn well pleased.

RichieC

****ing scum.

Redlion

I'm glad this has shaken the Vatican. It's about time someone of a high ranking in Ireland spoke out about the elitism and hiddne abuses of the Vatican. They can keep their ambassador as well.

ScumLord

excessive reactions

My hole, the man was highly reserved, shows how out of touch they are.

mike65

A few choice words, they are lucky churches are not being burned down (not that I'd advocate that, unless its one of those 60s/70s suburban carbuncles).

Nodin

Has anyone named paedo been lynched, churches burnt down, priests randomly attacked...? The arrogance of these fuckers in this day and age is incredible. Let him fuck off and never darken the place again.

The King of Moo

I don't mind individuals being religious, but the Catholic church as an institution now seems to be completely removed from reality. Their complete and utter disregard for the people who've suffered from abuse at the hands of clergy is the complete opposite of what the religion teaches.
I've been impressed with how Enda Kenny's treated them and hope he stands his ground.
The vatican needs to realise it's gone in the opposite direction of the teachings it was founded upon, and try to act in a christian manner.
If they're not disbanded first. If people still want to be Christians they can do it without the church.

Logical Fallacy

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Excessive reaction? Is there such a thing when it comes to multiple child rapes?

lol, think about the things the Church has done.

When you get away with fueling The Crusades everything else will feel pretty minor by comparison.

amacca

mike65 wrote: »

(not that I'd advocate that, unless its one of those 60s/70s suburban carbuncles).

made my day that

bit of an architecture connoisseur are we?

Nodin

Note RTE (updated 1359) doesn't carry any mention of the "certain excessive reactions" bit.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0725/cloyne.html

mcmoustache

We should have beaten the vatican to it by expelling him in the few days when we had the chance.

Teclo

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

Yakult

They really are so out of touch it's not even funny.

Their reaction to this just proves what Enda Kenny said is completely right.

Bunch of dopes.

ejmaztec

The Vatican just keeps on digging that fucking huge hole, and must be running out of space to store the sh1t they've already dug out.

Ghost Buster

"You cant sack me!!!!!!! I QUIT!!!!!!!
Perhaps....?

pablomakaveli

I just cant comprehend the complete stupidity and ignorance that comes from the Vatican. They genuinely seem to be unable to comprehend the seriousness of what happened here and are treating it like some sort of minor incident.

It's good to see the government standing up to the Vatican but if these idiots are to ever get how angry this country is and how serious this is the goverment needs to cut off diplomatic contact until they do understand.

housetypeb

Too bad that he wasn't pushed before he jumped,so to speak.

Gottalovegreys

Aww are the vatican a teeny bit upset. Poor diddums. :mad:

Jesus Wept

mike65 wrote: »

A few choice words, they are lucky churches are not being burned down (not that I'd advocate that)

I'd advocate it.

Up de Barrs

For a diplomatic service the Vatican representitives in Ireland seem remarkably out of touch with the views of the public here. I cant say he'll be missed.

The King of Moo

Teclo wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

Does that include the actual victims of abuse?

southsiderosie

Teclo wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

What?

Regardless of your interpretation of the Irish people (with which I disagree), or the actions of Irish officials (which was certainly lacking), the behavior of the Vatican has been and unfortunately continues to be inexcusable.

Whatever happened to "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s"?

If the Vatican cannot submit to the laws of a sovereign republic then let them go...and good riddance.

Crazy Horse 6

Don't like Enda or his blue shirt scum party at all but he needs to stick to his guns here.

TouchingVirus

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Don't like Enda or his blue shirt scum party at all but he needs to stick to his guns here.

Fine Gael and your love or hate for them belong in another thread, no need to stick the boot in here tbh.

Son Of A Vidic

Clearly child rape is merely a minor matter for the Vatican, hence their irrelevant and insufficient response on the issue. But at least people are now thinking for themselves, instead of being blindly lead by the hypocritical Emperor and his legion in Rome.

mcmoustache

Teclo wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

Looks like we've got a live one here....

Teclo

The King of Moo wrote: »

Does that include the actual victims of abuse?

Obviously not. But if we were to expel everyone in the country who failed to stop child abuse the place would very soon become empty. Among the first to go would be people like Kenny who had the opportunity to introduce mandatory reporting of all child abuse while in government in the 90's but apparently decided against it. Downplaying the rape and torture of children, as some might say.

Richard Hillman

What an insult to the victims

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Don't like Enda or his blue shirt scum party at all but he needs to stick to his guns here.

"Scum"

Guill

I'll excessive reactions you in a minute Mr.

pablomakaveli

Teclo wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

Tbh our ancestors were more civilized before the catholic Church came here.

steve9859

I never posted on this subject before, but I just don't have the words for this!! 'excessive reaction'???? Do they live in a parallel universe or something?!? The church conspires to cover up multiple counts of one of the most heinous and godforsaken crimes that one can commit, then accuses others of being excessive?!? Taking the cardinals out into St Peters Square and stoning them wouldn't be excessive! Unbelievable!

TouchingVirus

Teclo wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

Yeah, you're right. There's nothing like a bit of child rape to show us what's what and civilise us :rolleyes:

Unlike the Vatican, the government has at least tried to make amends and has acknowledged its own significant failures.

positron

Ah now, careful on how you react to this - especially watch out for those excessive reactions, lest not hurt those innocent pedophile priests and their demented but innocent supporters.

awww...!

The King of Moo

Teclo wrote: »

Obviously not. But if we were to expel everyone in the country who failed to stop child abuse the place would very soon become empty. Among the first to go would be people like Kenny who had the opportunity to introduce mandatory reporting of all child abuse while in government in the 90's but apparently decided against it. Downplaying the rape and torture of children, as some might say.

There's lots of people who could be indirectly blamed, but the people who knew what was going on and deliberately covered it up and assisted the perpetrators should all be in jail.

--Kaiser--

They should take all the property owned by the Catholic Church and use it to recompense the victims of abuse

Biggins

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

WOW. :eek:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26church.html?_r=1

Am I the only one who is surprised by this? I sincerely hope Enda Kenny stands his ground, no matter what is thrown in his face by these "holy" people. The people of Ireland, Enda, religious or otherwise, stand with you.

Sickening. Absolutely mind bogglingly sickening.

Two words - fcuk 'em!

My name is URL

I reckon that they believe this move will cause hysteria amongst mass-goers, and make the government reconsider its position on the matter. They really have no clue as to how bad their reputation is in this country.. even the very religious are highly critical of the Vaticans role in what happened here.

Wolfe Tone

The-Rigger wrote: »

I'd advocate it.

Really? If so you are a disgrace

ScumLord

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

They should take all the property owned by the Catholic Church and use it to recompense the victims of abuse

I really don't see how the government would have any other choice. If the church don't pay up and mend their ways the government will have to take what's owed to the victims.

pablomakaveli

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

They should take all the property owned by the Catholic Church and use it to recompense the victims of abuse

The religious orders have made millions selling off properties over the last few years and yet most of them have made little contribution to the compensation fund for the victims.

stimpson

Liam Byrne wrote: »

An "excessive" reaction would have been to - say - kick out all priests and clergy, or to post guards on every priest and bishop (the reminder is required that some of them are decent people).

Some of us would call it a good start.

If any clergy were truly good people they would have left the church long ago.

TouchingVirus

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

They should take all the property owned by the Catholic Church and use it to recompense the victims of abuse

^--- This!

And if the Irish Catholic Church are having trouble with that then they should try talking to that deposit-only bank the Vatican and asking them to assist. After all, it was the Vatican who encouraged them to cover it all up, told them it was only canon law they need obey etc.

If any of you have ever been to the Vatican you'll know they can well afford any amount of compensation for the victims.

And yet, here they are, essentially telling the people of Ireland to relax, no need for overreactions.

hatrickpatrick

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

They should take all the property owned by the Catholic Church and use it to recompense the victims of abuse

In all seriousness, are there any grounds on which the Criminal Assets bureau COULD go after them if required?

checkyabadself

I'm not at all surprised by that reaction. The Vatican's prime role is the self preservation of itself and its control over grooming young children to believe its slant on christianity through whatever means necessary. As an organisation of exclusively all male celibate childless members, it isnt surprising that child welfare is low/existant on its list of concerns.

What is surprising is that after the reports, the authorities haven't implemented unprecedented restrictions on all members of the church, frozen their assets, made compulsory orders to have them pay their share of the redress bill and expelled their ambassador. Let's be honest if hundreds or thousands of child abuse cases were unearthed about geography teachers, there wouldn't be a child at school the following day pending a massive investigation and getting of every teacher.

The reason we are currently at a bit of an impasse is because people in charge were once young children indoctrinated to the churches teachings and are afraid to go after them. The tide seems to be turning now that popular opinion is allowing ministers to speak out against the church, albeit as long as they are doingso "regrettably as a practicing Catholic myself".

pragmatic1

The fcukin arrogance of these people. Hopefully some good will come of this i.e more people realising what a dysfunctional, corrupt and nefarious organisation the RCC is.

bronte

Oh noes...the people of Ireland are fed up of our shit.....what happened? They used to loooooooove us.

They couldn't be more deluded if they tried.
Sickening.

nice1franko

Incredible, astonishing statement.

Isn't it indicative of just how entitled, conceited and untouchable they view themselves?

They need to be brought back into line (and regulation) with every other care-based organisation out there and individuals chased down and imprisoned regardless of how high up in their club the consider themselves.