First Church of Atheism

liamw

Is this for real? W.T.F.

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

brendanL

...fastest way to make a million is start a religeon.


Doesn't this defeat the purpose of atheism? a church really? REALLY? -_-

I'm tempted to get ordained for ****s and giggles ;D

GlasnevinRed

A church is defined as an association of people who share a particular belief system. So yes, a church of atheism can really exist.

:mad:

Turtwig

I seriously hope it was Christians that set this up.:D

Delirium

surely the idea of a church of atheism is an oxymoron?

RevMcMaster

Hi! I'm the oxymoron that started the FCA. Just wanted to say that our main reason for starting the church was so atheists could perform wedding ceremonies and other functions reserved for clergy

eoin5

RevMcMaster wrote: »

Hi! I'm the oxymoron that started the FCA. Just wanted to say that our main reason for starting the church was so atheists could perform wedding ceremonies and other functions reserved for clergy

gargleblaster

RevMcMaster wrote: »

Hi! I'm the oxymoron that started the FCA. Just wanted to say that our main reason for starting the church was so atheists could perform wedding ceremonies and other functions reserved for clergy

Over here we get them done at city hall. I'd think that for most atheists this'd be a social contract, not a religious one.

What kinds ceremonies of and functions which atheists would take part in could possibly require a church?

My first reaction to your site, btw, was "FFS". Cause really.

Blowfish

gargleblaster wrote: »

Over here we get them done at city hall. I'd think that for most atheists this'd be a social contract, not a religious one.

What kinds ceremonies of and functions which atheists would take part in could possibly require a church?

There are caveats to civil marriages here as far as I understand. As an example, the registrar is a civil servant, hence doesn't work weekends, so either you have to marry on a weekday or do the registration bit before/after. Also, civil marriages must be in a fixed buiding (i.e. no marrying outside), whereas with religious marriages it is up to the church/religion as to where it is appropriate to marry.

Setting up what is effectively a 'fake' church may be a bit OTT, but it does get around some silly restrictions.

RevMcMaster

gargleblaster wrote: »

Over here we get them done at city hall. I'd think that for most atheists this'd be a social contract, not a religious one.

What kinds ceremonies of and functions which atheists would take part in could possibly require a church?

My first reaction to your site, btw, was "FFS". Cause really.

Well some folk don't want to be married at city hall, and in some hospitals clergy get extra visiting rights, my wife and I got married on a cruise ship and had to use a non-denominational minister, not really what we wanted so we started the FCA so others could have an option. no one is forced to think we are a good idea, i fact I would prefer that you think ALL clergy everywhere are bull****! lol

gargleblaster

Good point, I hadn't thought about weekend marriages or hospital visitation. All this is just more evidence that religion still has entirely too much influence on people's lives.

I agree that setting up a church for it is overkill - why set up a church for just this one thing? The word is religious by default.

RevMcMaster

gargleblaster wrote: »

Good point, I hadn't thought about weekend marriages or hospital visitation. All this is just more evidence that religion still has entirely too much influence on people's lives.

I agree that setting up a church for it is overkill - why set up a church for just this one thing? The word is religious by default.

it's also just really funny

Ghost Buster

You do know that you are going to be linked to every single time a religious person posts "Atheism is a religion" and an atheist refutes it.
Thanks dude:mad::(

eoin5

RevMcMaster wrote: »

it's also just really funny

Have you heard of Discordianism?

Every member and non member of the religion is a pope, one of the rights you get with that is:

To baptise, marry and bury (with the permission of the deceased in the latter two).

fatmammycat

RevMcMaster wrote: »

it's also just really funny

No, it really isn't. Why not have the club of atheism if you must group so many people with differing ideology together. Calling it a church is automatically including a deity/belief system of some form or other.

Pygmalion

fatmammycat wrote: »

No, it really isn't. Why not have the club of atheism if you must group so many people with differing ideology together. Calling it a church is automatically including a deity/belief system of some form or other.

We also don't actually eat babies, at least it's not required of us.

fatmammycat

I am failing to see what that has to do with anything I posted, but am tired, so might be missing some kind of under current message.

Pygmalion

fatmammycat wrote: »

I am failing to see what that has to do with anything I posted, but am tired, so might be missing some kind of under current message.

Something being funny and something being an accurate statement are two separate things.

fatmammycat

and again, this has what to do with what I posted?

Slushfund

Dawkins, Hitchens etc. make enough money off the back of it, why not this lad, fair play to him.

fatmammycat

Slushfund wrote: »

Dawkins, Hitchens etc. make enough money off the back of it, why not this lad, fair play to him.

Oh the back of what exactly?

liamw

RevMcMaster wrote: »

it's also just really funny

It's not funny unless it's satirical. While I can understand the 'church' might be set up with the best intentions, I think it is counter-productive considering we have to repeatedly tell people on this forum that atheism is not a belief system.

CiaranMT

Slushfund wrote: »

Dawkins, Hitchens etc. make enough money off the back of it, why not this lad, fair play to him.

Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist by trade, Hitchens a rather adept polemicist who writes for a number of publications.

They also happen to be atheist.

MagicMarker

Fúcking Americans ruining it for everyone else as usual.

pH

liamw wrote: »

It's not funny unless it's satirical. While I can understand the 'church' might be set up with the best intentions, I think it is counter-productive considering we have to repeatedly tell people on this forum that atheism is not a belief system.

That's your argument? Seriously?

It undermines arguments you have with strangers on the net? So he shouldn't do it?

axer

pH wrote: »

That's your argument? Seriously?

It undermines arguments you have with strangers on the net? So he shouldn't do it?

I think the point is that there is obviously a belief out there that Atheism is just another religious belief system and by actually using Atheism in a the name of a church group that will just reinforce that belief. The crazy religious groups will have a field day on this.

I can imagine Fox News covering this now and while one might think that this would give an opportunity to speak about the issues the ticker tape will read "Atheists setup church for their beliefs" or something like that.

For instance on the website it says this:

Why is this free?

We believe that everyone should have the right to preach what they believe, to start a congregation, and to perform ceremonies. This is usually reserved for members of traditional religious sects. We have started a church of our own, based on our beliefs, and will provide our service of ordainment free to anyone who shares our beliefs.

I think the founders are misrepresenting atheism here as being about beliefs instead of lack of beliefs thus this will most likely backfire and cause more problems for atheists.

This smacks of "If we can't beat them then join them" except a lot of ground is being made in secularisation at the moment and this will just make people more suspicious of atheists resulting in a negative impact on progress being made.

RevMcMaster, the only thing that atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a deity/deities.

antiskeptic

koth wrote: »

surely the idea of a church of atheism is an oxymoron?

Depend on how you define atheism. If you're talking solely about people without a belief in God then they probably wouldn't be paying any attention to the issue in order to hear of the likes of an atheist church.

If, on the other hand you consider the folk the likes of who, tend to post in this type of forum then you've got a shared anti-theist belief system. It's an active kind of atheism.

What else would you call this forum if not a congregation of like minds?

Do you believe religion is a damaging influence on society?
Do you believe that a secular society is the best society?
Do you believe that naturalistic explanations best explain the reason for us and our surroundings being as they are?
Do you believe that religious people are deluded and weak?

You've got the beginnings of a creed going there. Why not congregate around it?

MagicMarker

antiskeptic wrote: »

Depend on how you define atheism. If you're talking solely about people without a belief in God then they probably wouldn't be paying any attention to the issue in order to hear of the likes of an atheist church.

If, on the other hand you consider the folk the likes of who, tend to post in this type of forum then you've got a shared anti-theist belief system. It's an active kind of atheism.

What else would you call this forum if not a congregation of like minds?

Do you believe religion is a damaging influence on society?
Do you believe that a secular society is the best society?
Do you believe that naturalistic explanations best explain the reason for us and our surroundings being as they are?
Do you believe that religious people are deluded and weak?

You've got the beginnings of a creed going there. Why not congregate around it?

Believe it or not a lot of atheists do not believe any of those things.

Every forum on this website has a ''congregation of like minds'', does that mean they are all potential religions?

Mistress 69

Ghost Buster wrote: »

You do know that you are going to be linked to every single time a religious person posts "Atheism is a religion" and an atheist refutes it.
Thanks dude:mad::(

And this is one of those times If there is a church... it is a religion.

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

Depend on how you define atheism. If you're talking solely about people without a belief in God then they probably wouldn't be paying any attention to the issue in order to hear of the likes of an atheist church.

yeah, I'd be with the lack of belief in deities as my definition of atheism.

If, on the other hand you consider the folk the likes of who, tend to post in this type of forum then you've got a shared anti-theist belief system. It's an active kind of atheism.

What else would you call this forum if not a congregation of like minds?

I won't consider it a group of like minds. Generally the posters here have one thing in common, lack of belief in deities.

Do you believe religion is a damaging influence on society?

It can be.

Do you believe that a secular society is the best society?

I would think that a society that attempts to treat people equally would be a basis for a society.

Do you believe that naturalistic explanations best explain the reason for us and our surroundings being as they are?

well I'd definitely think it better explains things over a story that all powerful creator is answer to all things.

Do you believe that religious people are deluded and weak?

nope.

You've got the beginnings of a creed going there. Why not congregate around it?

It just doesn't make sense to me. there are no atheist rituals, rites of passage, prayers etc. It just seems like a very confused idea to set up a church of atheism.

antiskeptic

MagicMarker wrote: »

Believe it or not a lot of atheists do not believe any of those things.

I wasn't thinking of them, I was thinking of

If, on the other hand you consider the folk the likes of who, tend to post in this type of forum then you've got a shared anti-theist belief system. It's an active kind of atheism.

Every forum on this website has a ''congregation of like minds'', does that mean they are all potential religions?

The congregation of like minds on this forum deal with existential issues as opposed to stamp collecting. A belief system that concerns itself with addressing existential issue tends to fall under the category Religion - something boards.ie recognised in their positioning this forum under Religion & Spirituality.

antiskeptic

koth wrote: »

yeah, I'd be with the lack of belief in deities as my definition of atheism.

But not that only.. was the point.

I won't consider it a group of like minds. Generally the posters here have one thing in common, lack of belief in deities.

What about..

Well I'd definitely think it better explains things over a story that all powerful creator is answer to all things.

or..

I would think that a society that attempts to treat people equally would be a basis for a society.

.. would those be common beliefs here too?

Do you believe that religious people are deluded and weak?

nope.

I see a schism coming up. This is how denominations are born..

It just doesn't make sense to me. there are no atheist rituals, rites of passage, prayers etc. It just seems like a very confused idea to set up a church of atheism.

You have holy scriptures, you have creeds, you have high priests, you evangelize, you 'burn heretics at the stake' (thinking of Prof Flew here), your god is the only god - all other gods are false, miracles are performed which require large doses of faith to support belief in them (abiogenesis / the Big Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that the BIg Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that...), folks of other faith think you are deluded.

I could go on..

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

The congregation of like minds on this forum deal with existential issues as opposed to stamp collecting. A belief system that concerns itself with addressing existential issue tends to fall under the category Religion - something boards.ie recognised in their positioning this forum under Religion & Spirituality.

A belief system requires more than one belief, atheism doesn't meet that criteria.

The forum was put in the Religion and Spirituality section as it makes sense to have a forum that will have the vast majority of the posts discussing religions in that section.

It wasn't because atheism was deemed to be a religion, like you seem to be suggesting.

antiskeptic

koth wrote: »

A belief system requires more than one belief, atheism doesn't meet that criteria.

Atheist have lots of shared beliefs

The forum was put in the Religion and Spirituality section as it makes sense to have a forum that will have the vast majority of the posts discussing religions in that section.

If atheists merely lack a belief in God then why would they be posting about Religion at all??

In practice they do as all the other religions do: espouse their own existential views and argue the toss with all the other existential views.

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

But not that only.. was the point.


What about..

or..

.. would those be common beliefs here too?

I see a schism coming up. This is how denominations are born..

You have holy scriptures, you have creeds, you have high priests, you evangelize, you 'burn heretics at the stake' (thinking of Prof Flew here), your god is the only god - all other gods are false, miracles are performed which require large doses of faith to support belief in them (abiogenesis / the Big Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that the BIg Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that...), folks of other faith thing you are deluded.

I could go on..

wow. you really are going to try and bang that square peg into the round hole.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Atheist have lots of shared beliefs



If atheists merely lack a belief in God then why would they be posting about Religion at all??

In practice they do as all the other religions do: espouse their own existential views and argue the toss with all the other existential views.

because a lot religions spill over into public policies, like education and marriage to name two examples. Those are problems created by religion that have an impact on people who are not members of the religion.

That's part of why this forum exists.

Ghost Buster

Perhaps Americans are just prone to lonelyness or have a stronger pack instinct than most.
First they take Wicca and Witch Craft which has always traditionally been a solitary spiritual thing and form several daft as rabbits churches around them and now they are at it with Atheism.
Farking stoopid :mad:

MagicMarker

antiskeptic wrote: »

Atheist have lots of shared beliefs

People in shared beliefs shocker.

Dades

antiskeptic wrote: »

koth wrote: »

A belief system requires more than one belief, atheism doesn't meet that criteria.

Atheist have lots of shared beliefs.

Name two.

antiskeptic

koth wrote: »

wow. you really are going to try and bang that square peg into the round hole.

I was considering that which lies at the root of things - in which case the peg isn't so square.

because a lot religions spill over into public policies, like education and marriage to name two examples. Those are problems created by religion that have an impact on people who are not members of the religion.

Problems can be said to occur in reverse. The influence of a godless society on me and my family when I'm not a member of that godlessness.

That's part of why this forum exists.

To promote the tenets of your belief system (which manifest in areas such as education / marriage / abortion / euthanasia / etc )'as an alternative to the system that exists (partially religious currently).

To suppose that there is no belief system at the root of your (collective) position is to suppose yourself arguing from a vacuum. Everybody believes something.

antiskeptic

Dades wrote: »

Name two.

On this forum (a context set earlier)

anti-theism / naturalisim / empiricism /

Penn

antiskeptic wrote: »

I was considering that which lies at the root of things - in which case the peg isn't so square.

Problems can be said to occur in reverse. The influence of a godless society on me and my family when I'm not a member of that godlessness.

To promote the tenets of your belief system (which manifest in areas such as education / marriage / abortion / euthanasia / etc )'as an alternative to the system that exists (partially religious currently).

To suppose that there is no belief system at the root of your (collective) position is to suppose yourself arguing from a vacuum. Everybody believes something.

There's a difference between believing something and holding a religious belief in it. I wouldn't take atheism to be a belief, moreso a general theme throughout certain ideas.

Turtwig

antiskeptic wrote: »

Atheist have lots of shared beliefs

Do you collect Ancient Tombstones? Neither do I. Do you believe that killing is mostly wrong? So do I. Look! People who don't collect ancient tombstones the world over have many shared beliefs. Therefore, not collecting ancient tombstones must be a religion. Let's call it "a-tombing" because there's so many "a-tombists".

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

I was considering that which lies at the root of things - in which case the peg isn't so square.

Problems can be said to occur in reverse. The influence of a godless society on me and my family when I'm not a member of that godlessness.

I didn't realise that christians weren't allow marry or were being refused places in their local school due to their religion

To promote the tenets of your belief system (which manifest in areas such as education / marriage / abortion / euthanasia / etc )'as an alternative to the system that exists (partially religious currently).

I don't have a belief system, unless you think consider the desire for people to be treated equally a belief system.

To suppose that there is no belief system at the root of your (collective) position is to suppose yourself arguing from a vacuum. Everybody believes something.

That doesn't mean atheism is a religion though.

liamw

pH wrote: »

That's your argument? Seriously?

It undermines arguments you have with strangers on the net? So he shouldn't do it?

The impression of atheism from these 'strangers on the net' (in my experience) is shared amongst a significant percentage of the general population.

The hesitiation for some to declare themselves as atheist is evidently derived from misinformation and a perception of atheism as a dogma/religion/belief system in and of itself. The website doesn't help in removing this perception - it perpetuates it.

antiskeptic

Barrington wrote: »

There's a difference between believing something and holding a religious belief in it.

Go on

I wouldn't take atheism to be a belief, moreso a general theme throughout certain ideas.

Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief - we all know that

However, atheists, whilst lacking a belief in god don't believe nothing - they believe something. And because the somethings they believe in are shared by many other atheists and because there are many similarities with reliigions in the way those beliefs are espoused, a case can be made for forming an atheist 'church'

At least, some atheists seem to think so.

antiskeptic

koth wrote: »

I didn't realise that christians weren't allow marry or were being refused places in their local school due to their religion

No, But they are refused the right to walk around their city without being faced with soft porn on every second billboard.

I don't have a belief system, unless you think consider the desire for people to be treated equally a belief system.

What is fair tends to be a function of the belief system you hold.

That doesn't mean atheism is a religion though.

When it shares core characteristics of religions then it arguably is. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck .. ??

antiskeptic

Malty_T wrote: »

Do you collect Ancient Tombstones? Neither do I. Do you believe that killing is mostly wrong? So do I. Look! People who don't collect ancient tombstones the world over have many shared beliefs. Therefore, not collecting ancient tombstones must be a religion. Let's call it "a-tombing" because there's so many "a-tombists".

It was more the congregational nature of things I was thinking of.

You have holy scriptures, you have creeds, you have high priests, you evangelize, you 'burn heretics at the stake' (thinking of Prof Flew here), your god is the only god - all other gods are false, miracles are performed which require large doses of faith to support belief in them (abiogenesis / the Big Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that the BIg Bang produced a brain capable of deciding that...), folks of other faith think you are deluded.

That and the fact of the core belief of the congregation concerning itself with the existential

Penn

antiskeptic wrote: »

Go on

Okay. I believe Nutella on toast is great. But I don't bless myself every time I walk past a jar of Nutella in the shop. I believe that Metal Gear Solid 3 is the best game ever, but I don't pray to Hideo Kojima (the creator of the game) every night.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief - we all know that

However, atheists, whilst lacking a belief in god don't believe nothing - they believe something. And because the somethings they believe in are shared by many other atheists and because there are many similarities with reliigions in the way those beliefs are espoused, a case can be made for forming an atheist 'church'

At least, some atheists seem to think so.

But again, you're saying that a lack of belief is a belief in itself, which in a really roundabout way is correct, but a pointless argument. I don't say to people "Hi, I'm Barrington. I'm 25, from Ireland, and I'm not a Formula1 driver". Technically, I'm not a Formula1 driver. But that doesn't suddenly lump me in with everyone else who is not a Formula1 driver. We aren't going to have meetings or conferences where we discuss not driving Formula1 cars.

eoin5

Theres too much maneuvering around the irony of a proposed church of not believing in something. Its silly.

Delirium

antiskeptic wrote: »

No, But they are refused the right to walk around their city without being faced with soft porn on every second billboard.

are you claiming only atheists work in advertising?

What is fair tends to be a function of the belief system you hold.

That doesn't mean it has anything to do with me being an atheist though.

When it shares core characteristics of religions then it arguably is. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck .. ??

that does nothing to support your claim though. You list out things in the attempt to create a religion under the banner of atheism, but all it does is show how much you misunderstand what atheism actually is.

antiskeptic

Barrington wrote: »

Okay. I believe Nutella on toast is great. But I don't bless myself every time I walk past a jar of Nutella in the shop. I believe that Metal Gear Solid 3 is the best game ever, but I don't pray to Hideo Kojima (the creator of the game) every night.

I don't bless myself either.

What about the scriptures you peruse, or the high priests whose word is treated as gospel? Perhaps you're not as avid a believer as many around here.

But again, you're saying that a lack of belief is a belief in itself,

I'm not saying that. Lack of belief is like a lack of a red elephant in front of me. it's nothing at all.

It's what you do believe (in shared fashion) that under-girds the congregation here. Not your lack of belief.