Why are we afraid of male sexuality?

Logical Fallacy

I don't want to come off as a complete dick, but i understand what people who keep bringing up rape are talking about...but i posted this in a male orientated forum for a reason.

I'm guess what i am looking to find an answer to is why blokes seem to be afraid of their own sexuality.

I think Maple pretty much hit the nail on the head with regard to the expectation of skill and virility that is placed on men, if i could thank that post twice i would.

Sonics2k

Mallei wrote: »

Women are not "afraid" of male sexuality. They are afraid of rape.

When a woman shows wariness towards a man or a situation she is not saying that that particular man will rape her or that the situation will lead to her being raped, but that she is watching out just in case.

It might be unfair (in fact I realise that it is unfair), but there is a desire for male sexuality to be less open, and to be curtailed, because it is male sexuality that tends to affect more people. Yes, women sexually assault men, women rape men, women rape women, but the numbers are not equal. Not even remotely so. 95% of rapes are committed by men and 90% of victims are women. As long as that is the case, society will always be more wary towards male sexuality than female sexuality, and will always perceive any display of it with a touch of caution.

It is true that some women relish male sexuality behind closed doors (what straight female doesn't?), but that doesn't make that woman a hypocrit. She trusts that man, she knows him. She isn't worried about him; worried that he will attack her, will rape her, worried what people will say to blame her when that happens despite the fact that she is the victim. She can enjoy his sexuality, and that doesn't necessarily mean she wants him to play the "big strong man" and do all the work or act like a caveman. It does mean he can express his desires without making her uncomfortable (unless those desires involve farm animals :pac:).

So fellas, we're not attacking your sexuality. We love it! We just don't want it expressed all the time, and in situations where a minority of you might hurt us. It's a real shame that those few spoil it for the rest of us, but as long as they do then you can surely understand our reticence?

You seem to be confusing male sexuality with rape.

Males are typically more "aggressive" during sex, but it has little, if anything to do with rape.

Yes it's understandable to be afraid of rape, and I'm not going to argue that, especially as someone who taught women's self-defence for some time, but the two things are not connected.

Sonics2k

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I don't want to come off as a complete dick, but i understand what people who keep bringing up rape are talking about...but i posted this in a male orientated forum for a reason.

I'm guess what i am looking to find an answer to is why blokes seem to be afraid of their own sexuality.

I think Maple pretty much hit the nail on the head with regard to the expectation of skill and virility that is placed on men, if i could thank that post twice i would.

I agree with Maple entirely as well, hit the nail on the head.

Artur Foden

Mallei wrote: »

So fellas, we're not attacking your sexuality. We love it! We just don't want it expressed all the time, and in situations where a minority of you might hurt us. It's a real shame that those few spoil it for the rest of us, but as long as they do then you can surely understand our reticence?

I just think that part is a bit unfair, I understand that women have to be much more careful than men generally speaking but I believe men have the right to express their sexuality 'all the time'. or atleast as much as women do (if that makes sense?)

py2006

guitarzero wrote: »

I remember when I was a kid and getting an idea of sex I thought that women got the wrong end of the deal. I assumed they just took it and endured it.

Interesting you say this. When I was coming of age I had this notion (from where, I don't know) that only men liked sex and women let them do it to them because they liked them or something! It took me quite a while to come to terms with the fact that women want and enjoy sex!!

Sounds odd I know! I wonder how it came about

py2006

Great thread, the start went a bit sour but it picked up!! Some members on boards need a 'We hate men' thread to themselves!! :rolleyes:

An interesting thing about men and their perception of male attractiveness. I have never had any issue saying a man is good looking. I know most of my friends would give me that "are you gay" look. But unfortunately, I even get it from women! In a converation about relationships recently, I made a comment that I hadn't kissed a girl in 6 months!! One girl, pointed at me a broke down laughing calling me a 'lesbian' ?? Not sure but I guess my statement was very unmanly!

It's childish I know, but even in my 30's now it isn't socially acceptable for a straight man to admire another for being attractive without being laughed at etc

the_syco

Mallei wrote: »

Women are not "afraid" of male sexuality. They are afraid of rape.

Rape has more to do with power than male sexuality. If you look at history, regimes have in the past, and still so, rape males to show their power of its prisoners.

Elle Collins

Sonics2k wrote: »

Yes it's understandable to be afraid of rape, and I'm not going to argue that, especially as someone who taught women's self-defence for some time, but the two things are not connected.

I am just at a loss as to what to say to anyone who claims male sexuality and rape are not connected. The intertwinment of dominance and sex is almost always a masculine expression, and it is, to say the very least, disturbingly widespread. Anyone who is blinkered enough to think male sexuality and rape are in no way connected needs to take a look at how male sexually-dominant urges are reflected though the global proliferation of male-dominant porn.

py2006

Elle Collins wrote: »

I am just at a loss as to what to say to anyone who claims male sexuality and rape are not connected. The intertwinment of dominance and sex is almost always a masculine expression, and it is, to say the very least, disturbingly widespread. Anyone who is blinkered enough to think male sexuality and rape are in no way connected needs to take a look at how male sexually-dominant urges are reflected though the global proliferation of male-dominant porn.

I think the connection was brought up in a deliberately offensive and provocative manner with some inappropriate suggestions. IMO

Elle Collins

py2006 wrote: »

I think the connection was brought up in a deliberately offensive and provocative manner with some inappropriate suggestions.

I haven't read the whole thread py2006, so I don't know which comments you're referring to here or what was said in them, but I do know that I find the overt male sexual dominance that saturates our culture offensive, and that rape is the expression of that dominance in its most extreme form.

py2006

With all due respect, I think this thread is about men and their fear or discomfort with their sexuality and how it is perceived in the media.

Not so much about women fearing men/rape!!

I stand to be corrected!

Maguined

Elle Collins wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread py2006, so I don't know which comments you're referring to here or what was said in them, but I do know that I find the overt male sexual dominance that saturates our culture offensive, and that rape is the expression of that dominance in its most extreme form.

I think it is pretty offensive and inaccurate to claim rape is an expression of male dominance.

Logical Fallacy

py2006 wrote: »

With all due respect, I think this thread is about men and their fear or discomfort with their sexuality and how it is perceived in the media.

Not so much about women fearing men/rape!!

I stand to be corrected!

Pretty much yes, can we either drop the whole rape thing or else just close up the thread.

It's frustrating to not be able to discuss male sexuality without being told it's bad and evil.

Elle Collins

Maguined wrote: »

I think it is pretty offensive and inaccurate to claim rape is an expression of male dominance.

Oh dear, I never realised it was an expression of male tenderness and timidity... :rolleyes:

irishh_bob

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I often read Logical Fallacy post's on nice guys and how there losers.. I never really thought you have any idea what your talking about., because its easy to be nice when you've got no confidence you want friends you want to be liked bye every body you want girls to like you and you fall in to a pit... People see that as being needy... and to a degree Id say yes it is.... But as an ego/ confidance boost when some drunk female friends rings you tell her how she argued with her boy friend.... People take advantage of you as a person..

That can hurt... I beleive that at times it can contribute to such a low level of self esteam that some young men would feel betrayed and hurt enough to take more extream lengths...

so there one more then perfect reason to why young men commet sucide because they don't have the confidence to talk to people.


I beleive sexuality can be as big of a problem as the above.. I know a few gay people all lovely and easy to talk to... Its makes not difference to me what there into how ever some people it could be a massive burden to be in that postition...

either way I think there are many reasons for sucha high male sucide rate I think to point the finger at sexuality is a bit of a cop out. and piss poor research as well as a writing..

Im nto a great writer but the writer content to a degree stands for fvck all...
More then liekly its something reaserched using wiki and god knows what else.

young men ( or men in general ) commit suicide because they feel moaning to someone is undignified , w hat have you if you dont have pride , whatever about male sexuality being under threat , masculine pride most certainly is , the amount of women out there who think they have a duty to re_engineer and casterate uncivilised males is astonishing and after they have taken his balls , they whinge about thier being no real men anymore

sam34

ok, can we bring this back to the topic of men and how they feel about expressing their sexuality.

lets drop the rape stuff, please.

no further warnings, bans will be issued if people stray off topic.

KyussBishop

Elle Collins wrote: »

I am just at a loss as to what to say to anyone who claims male sexuality and rape are not connected. The intertwinment of dominance and sex is almost always a masculine expression, and it is, to say the very least, disturbingly widespread. Anyone who is blinkered enough to think male sexuality and rape are in no way connected needs to take a look at how male sexually-dominant urges are reflected though the global proliferation of male-dominant porn.

Porn is the most widely warped and misrepresentative reflection on male sexuality that there is, and I think how porn represents things may have a lot to do with (creating/promoting) societal misperceptions regarding male sexuality.
I think this may in some cases, cause insecurity on mens part, that expressing attraction/sexuality may carry over many false/inappropriate connotations, due to many of the stereotypes and misperceptions that are proliferated.

The more logical side of me assumes that these misperceptions aren't too widely held, and that you wouldn't experience them through most girls; the mere threat of them is self-censoring though, which is harmful.

This is only off the top of my head (and maybe someone already touched on this in the thread), but I think it's an interesting point of view on porn:
Usually when people focus on the negative aspects of porn, it's how it reflects on and represents women (which is true, as most of it is very negative and objectifying); it's interesting though, to consider how it also affects men negatively, not just in image, but how it may impact on expressing sexuality as well.

Logical Fallacy

Okay, i'd like to make an effort to swing things back around by talking about two very distinct area's of sexuality, experience and desire.

It has already been said that a lot of pressure can come from an expectation of ability. People kind of view sex as being something you are good at or not and ignore the fact that it take experience and practice to get good at just about anything. I genuinely think the idea that they might not be good at sex is so frightening for some blokes that they never actually get comfortable with the idea of talking about sex with the people they have it with.

I am under no illusions that the first time i had sex i was probably quite fumbly and crap...that's just how it is. Oddly enough the first 2 or 3 times i had sex i couldn't come for love nor money (well, no one offered money but i'm sure that wouldn't have helped much ) I genuinely think that the age old passtime of blokes slagging each other about being crap at sex or coming too quickly ( this is always the go to joke in tv programs about males ) had affected me so deeply that i was terrified of the shame i would feel if it happened...so i pretty much shut down all sensation and just could not enjoy the experience.

Probably what saved me early was the fact that i am pretty talkative chap so even in my first sexual relationship we were discussing things early, what we liked and didn't like etc...it helped me to calm down and just relax about sex a bit more.

This brings me on to the second thing...desire. Looking back at my sexual history I'd say within about 90% of my relationships , for some reason, i didn't feel comfortable enough to express what i genuinely enjoy doing with regards to sex. Once again, i have no idea why....I guess i felt that to express things that were often mentioned jokingly in the public eye or the media was to be a deviant...to genuine take sexual pleasure from something that could easily be mocked meant i was a mockery.

Without getting too graphic about stuff i am a physical person...i like physical sex. I have in the past however nearly always altered my game to suit the desires of the person i was having sex with. If she liked something, i did it...it never really occurred to me that i should plant my own flag and maybe say that i liked this or that or the other. I've had plenty of sex, with plenty of people...but being totally honest the amount of genuinely fulfilling sex i have had is probably limited.

There was always the idea bandied around the "sex is so awesome" that the fact that you are having sex means...well...it must be awesome, right?

To make one final full circle link...I have noticed the more sex i have had, the more i have expressed my desires and each sexual relationship has been better than the one that preceded it. The more sex i have had the more comfortable i became at discussing it, and the more i discussed it the better it was.

I don't like this idea of a veil of silence around sex with regards to men desires, i don't like the idea that other blokes out there might be feeling that same way...that just because they want to do something that this must mean that something is wrong. I'm not so foolish as to think all, or even most, men feel like that...but i reckon some do, and from having been there it wasn't a comfortable place and i was probably making some silly decisions because of it.

LegacyUser

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Okay, i'd like to make an effort to swing things back around by talking about two very distinct area's of sexuality, experience and desire.

It has already been said that a lot of pressure can come from an expectation of ability. People kind of view sex as being something you are good at or not and ignore the fact that it take experience and practice to get good at just about anything. I genuinely think the idea that they might not be good at sex is so frightening for some blokes that they never actually get comfortable with the idea of talking about sex with the people they have it with.

I am under no illusions that the first time i had sex i was probably quite fumbly and crap...that's just how it is. Oddly enough the first 2 or 3 times i had sex i couldn't come for love nor money (well, no one offered money but i'm sure that wouldn't have helped much ) I genuinely think that the age old passtime of blokes slagging each other about being crap at sex or coming too quickly ( this is always the go to joke in tv programs about males ) had affected me so deeply that i was terrified of the shame i would feel if it happened...so i pretty much shut down all sensation and just could not enjoy the experience.

Probably what saved me early was the fact that i am pretty talkative chap so even in my first sexual relationship we were discussing things early, what we liked and didn't like etc...it helped me to calm down and just relax about sex a bit more.

This brings me on to the second thing...desire. Looking back at my sexual history I'd say within about 90% of my relationships , for some reason, i didn't feel comfortable enough to express what i genuinely enjoy doing with regards to sex. Once again, i have no idea why....I guess i felt that to express things that were often mentioned jokingly in the public eye or the media was to be a deviant...to genuine take sexual pleasure from something that could easily be mocked meant i was a mockery.

Without getting too graphic about stuff i am a physical person...i like physical sex. I have in the past however nearly always altered my game to suit the desires of the person i was having sex with. If she liked something, i did it...it never really occurred to me that i should plant my own flag and maybe say that i liked this or that or the other. I've had plenty of sex, with plenty of people...but being totally honest the amount of genuinely fulfilling sex i have had is probably limited.

There was always the idea bandied around the "sex is so awesome" that the fact that you are having sex means...well...it must be awesome, right?

To make one final full circle link...I have noticed the more sex i have had, the more i have expressed my desires and each sexual relationship has been better than the one that preceded it. The more sex i have had the more comfortable i became at discussing it, and the more i discussed it the better it was.

I don't like this idea of a veil of silence around sex with regards to men desires, i don't like the idea that other blokes out there might be feeling that same way...that just because they want to do something that this must mean that something is wrong. I'm not so foolish as to think all, or even most, men feel like that...but i reckon some do, and from having been there it wasn't a comfortable place and i was probably making some silly decisions because of it.

The silence is deafening

Seriously though, thank you for such an honest post. I'm female but I can relate to it a lot. Especially my previous relationship. I think he was so busy concentrating on 'performing', that he forgot to actually 'be' with me. And the communication was non existent. In the end I felt like I had run into a brick wall so many times in my efforts to get him to open up, that I just closed up too. And pooft went the relationship. Its sad cos he was a great guy but our problems in the bedroom definitely were reflected in the rest of the relationship. Sometimes I just wanted him to you know, grab me, desire me, enjoy me. I didnt give a fcuk if he lasted for five minutes longer (or whatever). aagh!