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Why are we afraid of male sexuality?

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    #32
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    I don't think the disparity can be explained away like that, there is a difference between a genuine attempt and a 'suicidal gesture'.


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    #33
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    I don't think the disparity can be explained away like that, there is a difference between a genuine attempt and a 'suicidal gesture'.

    Yeah, I agree actually.

    A "cry for help" attempt is a lot different from a loss of self-preservation, don't care any more attempt.


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    #34
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    I definitely think society looks down upon male sexuality, it's p*sses me off no end.

    I took an interest in a recent Ladies Lounge thread titled "Are we becoming too afraid of men?". For a man, it made pretty bad reading.

    I really identify with my sexuality (for context I'm a 28yr old heterosexual male), and male sexuality is most certainly not as simple and the media claims it is.

    My sexual side has had it's ups and downs. Last year I suffered from psychological erectile dysfunction, which had it's origins in a bad break-up. I only really became comfortable with myself and my erections in the last 2 months, it took GP consultations, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and exercises to sort it out. It did however make me more aware of my sexuality which is a good thing I guess. But this just shows how complex male sexuality is.

    I really love the sexual desire I have for my girlfriend. I connect with her on a proper emotional level, but sometimes feeling physical lust is great. Thankfully she loves it too.

    I feel that a lot of women these days want their men to be more placid, they want to control them more. And trying to restrict and control male sexuality is probably one of the ways to achieve this. But deep down, a lot of women I have encountered in my life really want their men to be in control in the bedroom behind closed doors. Bit of a contradiction I always thought.

    I for one hope I can always feel comfortable and happy with my sexuality.


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    #35
    18AD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭18AD


    See, that's the thing. Sexuality isn't just some unstoppable genetic fluctuation. It's inextricably linked to cognitive functioning and emotions/memory and all the rest. So things like abnormal sexual behaviour might be linked to any one of these other things that are not only sexuality. Me thinks. Always the middle ground :p


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    #36
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Vincenzo Fierce Seafarer wrote: »
    I definitely think society looks down upon male sexuality, it's p*sses me off no end.

    I took an interest in a recent Ladies Lounge thread titled "Are we becoming too afraid of men?". For a man, it made pretty bad reading.

    I really identify with my sexuality (for context I'm a 28yr old heterosexual male), and male sexuality is most certainly not as simple and the media claims it is.

    My sexual side has had it's ups and downs. Last year I suffered from psychological erectile dysfunction, which had it's origins in a bad break-up. I only really became comfortable with myself and my erections in the last 2 months, it took GP consultations, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and exercises to sort it out. It did however make me more aware of my sexuality which is a good thing I guess. But this just shows how complex male sexuality is.

    I really love the sexual desire I have for my girlfriend. I connect with her on a proper emotional level, but sometimes feeling physical lust is great. Thankfully she loves it too.

    I feel that a lot of women these days want their men to be more placid, they want to control them more. And trying to restrict and control male sexuality is probably one of the ways to achieve this. But deep down, a lot of women I have encountered in my life really want their men to be in control in the bedroom behind closed doors. Bit of a contradiction I always thought.

    I for one hope I can always feel comfortable and happy with my sexuality.

    *Un PC alert*

    In my opinion women of the past couple of generations have unrealistic and prettified ideals about what male sexuality is and should be, or maybe sexuality in general. They have been sold a sanitised pink and fluffy version of it all and are not reared to be equipped to deal with it, negotiate with it, or fend it off.

    *See fairytale thread on TLL. Interesting counterpart to this thread.


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    #37
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    From the article linked in the OP:
    And yet does anyone doubt that there should be concerns about how easy access to porn impacts upon boys' sexual development, their self-esteem, their body image or performance anxieties? It's not as if young men bask in perfect mental health and happiness
    It always amazes me how often you hear things like, "These days girls have so much expectation to live up to in terms of image in relation to how female sexuality is portrayed in the media" etc. While this is certainly a very valid point and a concerning one, such attention is not given to standards of male sexuality / masculinity as portrayed in the media.
    As per the piece quoted, porn is one such example. Lets be honest, virtually every young male in this day and age watches porn, yet no one seems to care how such things might affect their developing sexuality. Think about it, you have this handsome man, built like a tank, perfect abs, full body wax, enormous cock and enough skill/stamina in the bedroom to easily sexually pleasure one several women in the bedroom. And yet we are supposed to believe that this can have no negative effect on a young man's self esteem. It should come as little surprise that a prominent concern for teenage boys / young men is whether their dick is large enough / whether they can satisfy a woman sexually.
    But that's just the porn industry right? Generally entertainment aimed at males portrays a sort of hyper-masculinity, that very few in life achieve. Example, the WWE;
    john-cena-v-ted-dibiase.jpg&sa=X&ei=K6AlTtH_HomDhQewmvDjCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc4Jg&usg=AFQjCNH1b-qJr8RaCmNgMZPL1bTph81n4Q
    These are a couple of your standard wrestling stars. They even look quite a lot like porn stars. They're strong, athletic, handsome and packed with muscles.
    Then there's movies...
    300-movie03.jpg&sa=X&ei=H6ElToWlFc2LhQfnw4XmCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc4EQ&usg=AFQjCNE9Pn73Iwz7cD1YEnr5xWIRWnb5CQ
    Now THAT's hyper-masculinity! The movie 300 was aimed primarily at young males and proved hugely successful. One of the film's main themes was that of manliness. Abs, athleticism, testosterone, 300 has it all in Greek style urns!

    Why is it that countless column inches are dedicated as to how Britney Spears' belly, Rihanna's cleavege (or whatever is 'in' now) is giving young girls unrealistic notions of what constitutes beauty and what must be strived to in order to be considered worthy, but the same is almost never said about John Cena's epic muscles in relation to young males?
    Do people not care? Or are guys just meant to 'man up' (always hated that phrase) and get on with it?


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    #38
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    *Un PC alert*

    In my opinion women of the past couple of generations have unrealistic and prettified ideals about what male sexuality is and should be, or maybe sexuality in general. They have been sold a sanitised pink and fluffy version of it all and are not reared to be equipped to deal with it, negotiate with it, or fend it off.

    *See fairytale thread on TLL. Interesting counterpart to this thread.

    Yeah I saw that fairytale thread alright.

    So I guess what is male sexuality exactly today?

    Sweeping generalisation here, but I feel women want the best of both worlds. A very refined, "pink and fluffy version" you describe, in public and a very traditional, masculine version in the bedroom.

    Maybe that is because women do indeed feel threatened by men and it is only when a woman is consensually with a man in bed that she feels she can leave her guard down (i.e. this guy is not a creep, weirdo, rapist or mass murderer and I trust him).

    * Again complete opinion and a big generalisation *


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    #39
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    I often read Logical Fallacy post's on nice guys and how there losers.. I never really thought you have any idea what your talking about., because its easy to be nice when you've got no confidence you want friends you want to be liked bye every body you want girls to like you and you fall in to a pit... People see that as being needy... and to a degree Id say yes it is.... But as an ego/ confidance boost when some drunk female friends rings you tell her how she argued with her boy friend.... People take advantage of you as a person..

    That can hurt... I beleive that at times it can contribute to such a low level of self esteam that some young men would feel betrayed and hurt enough to take more extream lengths...

    so there one more then perfect reason to why young men commet sucide because they don't have the confidence to talk to people.


    I beleive sexuality can be as big of a problem as the above.. I know a few gay people all lovely and easy to talk to... Its makes not difference to me what there into how ever some people it could be a massive burden to be in that postition...

    either way I think there are many reasons for sucha high male sucide rate I think to point the finger at sexuality is a bit of a cop out. and piss poor research as well as a writing..

    Im nto a great writer but the writer content to a degree stands for fvck all...
    More then liekly its something reaserched using wiki and god knows what else.


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    #40
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    This is interesting. I don't understand WHAT male sexuality is completely, to be honest. How would I know in the ins and outs of it? I think I'm only realising in the past few years how deeply it runs from spending time with very open, honest men. I suppose I found it a little unnerving just how deeply they (you guys) can lust and how beyond head wreaking it must be to curtail it. With the curtailment comes women getting the wrong impression as to what it really is. It's hard to know what you feel if you don't let us know. We get the wrong end of the stick with Beavis and Butthead comments posted on forums, lyrics in modern pop songs and this is the only insight most (young) women get...and of course it's not a fair and not correct.

    I suppose it comes down to science...men can detach themselves from sex more than women (I'll find a reference to science for that if you need it). I was in a situation last year myself with a guy I'd been sleeping with for almost a year and when I finally got round to asking him if something more was going on, he looked at me like I'd two heads. I was sad at the time but I still like the guy. He's still one of my best friends here. He never intentionally went out to hurt me, it was simply down to the fact that he could detach himself during sex whereas I was getting closer. I think a lot of the fear I'd feel about male sexuality would come down to that: fearing that a man only wants one thing and getting hurt. I'm not talking about an ONS but an ongoing sexual relationship. Women get more emotionally attached in the end through sexual intercourse. I wouldn't resent a man for that, it's just the way it is but it's still something I find hard to get my head round.

    This is not an attack on men, by the way. Having a high sex drive myself, I'd rather a man is honest and raw about his feelings. My boyfriend is like that. If he wants me in that way, he lets me know in a non-sugar coated way and I like that about him.


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    #41
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Why is it that countless column inches are dedicated as to how Britney Spears' belly, Rihanna's cleavege (or whatever is 'in' now) is giving young girls unrealistic notions of what constitutes beauty and what must be strived to in order to be considered worthy, but the same is almost never said about John Cena's epic muscles in relation to young males?
    Do people not care? Or are guys just meant to 'man up' (always hated that phrase) and get on with it?

    Well it's often women who bring up these points and often it's women who complain. The platform is there for you guys to do the same. You just don't see it as much. If there was enough hoo-ha, I'm sure we'd hear about it.


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    #42
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Yahew wrote: »
    The feminist argument about rape being primarily or only about control is nonsense. If it were, people would just boss people about, and be done with it.

    Oh dear.

    it's not a feminist argument. it's an argument which has been debated and mostly agreed upon in philosophical psychological and sociological research time and again (I don't have the references to hand, but trust me, they aren't all feminist!).

    I have to say I've enjoyed reading this thread. As a woman who likes women, it's very interesting. Male sexuality doesn't really impinge on my life at all, but I always found it odd when my friends say things like "sure they're all the same" or "what a creep, he let me sit down in his seat on the bus, just wanted to look down my top!" Eh, what? :confused:

    I feel bad for the regular guys who are lovely and want the same things women want- love and safety and fullfilling sex with someone you love. it seems to me that men and women are being sold completely different stories about the same event, it's baffling. Women are told if want to cuddle too much, forget about it, he'll never go for it! men are told not to cuddle as it's girly. Confusing much? most of my guy friends will talk about how they want someone to hold, and yeah, to hold them, too. Why is it such a tabboo?


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    #43
    gargleblaster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gargleblaster


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Well it's often women who bring up these points and often it's women who complain. The platform is there for you guys to do the same. You just don't see it as much. If there was enough hoo-ha, I'm sure we'd hear about it.

    Yes, however we have to take into account that men are overwhelmingly socialized not to complain about these things. To do so risks being labeled as weak or a wussy or what have you. Eating disorders are on the rise among boys, and testosterone abuse is also a big problem. So the pressure that has always been on women to be physically perfect is now obviously being spread to men and it's taking the same toll on boys.


    As for Yahew's comments, I want to say that I picked them up differently. I don't think he was saying that all men are potential rapists (just a large percentage, based on statistics and all-too-common attempts to claim it's just in men's nature to rape). Just that it is only socialization that makes us civilized. If a child is left to their own devices, and not tought social mores and customs, then that child will behave as an animal. Animals will rape dead carcasses FFS, so yes, the potential to behave in an uncivilized manner is there in every one of us, and that does include rape.


    I don't agree with everything in the article quoted in the OP, but I think it raises some very good points. Boys and male sexuality goes largely unexplored and the problems that afflict them are treated the same. IMO we should stop raising boys to 'take it on the chin', and allow them to escape the manly man trap of never talking about how things make them feel and that discussing unfairness is somehow being a whiner. No problems ever get solved that way.


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    #44
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Well it's often women who bring up these points and often it's women who complain. The platform is there for you guys to do the same. You just don't see it as much. If there was enough hoo-ha, I'm sure we'd hear about it.

    Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that I think it is (mostly) a male generated problem. In general men keep quiet as not to look unmanly in the eyes of other men IMO.


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    #45
    gargleblaster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gargleblaster


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    it's not a feminist argument. it's an argument which has been debated and mostly agreed upon in philosophical psychological and sociological research time and again (I don't have the references to hand, but trust me, they aren't all feminist!).

    That point is not so widely held as in past years, it seems to be falling by the wayside, and considered a myth by many.
    I feel bad for the regular guys who are lovely and want the same things women want- love and safety and fullfilling sex with someone you love. it seems to me that men and women are being sold completely different stories about the same event, it's baffling. Women are told if want to cuddle too much, forget about it, he'll never go for it! men are told not to cuddle as it's girly. Confusing much? most of my guy friends will talk about how they want someone to hold, and yeah, to hold them, too. Why is it such a tabboo?

    I do too, it's very sad for men who don't fit the stereotypical manly-man mold. Sadly too few speak out against it yet, and so many women support it. As Eve_Dublin says above, society in general and pop culture in particular push this fairly consistently.


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    #46
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    I feel bad for the regular guys who are lovely and want the same things women want- love and safety and fullfilling sex with someone you love. it seems to me that men and women are being sold completely different stories about the same event, it's baffling. Women are told if want to cuddle too much, forget about it, he'll never go for it! men are told not to cuddle as it's girly. Confusing much? most of my guy friends will talk about how they want someone to hold, and yeah, to hold them, too. Why is it such a tabboo?

    Really interesting to read an opinion from a total outsiders perspective. I'd agree with the above. There's plenty of media compounding the idea that "all men are after one thing" and it does men no favours, particularly young men and young women. I'd hope most women would realise through trial and error through life experience that this is a fallacy. I agree it's a problem indeed and one I never really thought about before.


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    #47
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    gargleblaster wrote: »
    Yes, however we have to take into account that men are overwhelmingly socialized not to complain about these things. To do so risks being labeled as weak or a wussy or what have you. Eating disorders are on the rise among boys, and testosterone abuse is also a big problem. So the pressure that has always been on women to be physically perfect is now obviously being spread to men and it's taking the same toll on boys.

    As women are labelled bra-burning, man hating feminists...you just have to get on with it if you feel strongly enough. Ignore the guff and name calling if you feel strongly enough.


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    #48
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that I think it is (mostly) a male generated problem. In general men keep quiet as not to look unmanly in the eyes of other men IMO.
    +1


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    #49
    gargleblaster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭gargleblaster


    Just wanted to pop back in to point out that as far as western society is concerned, women started agitating for more equal treatment in society in the context of sexual identity and liberation several decades ago - so it will take some time for people to shake off the indoctinration about men that most adults today have already internalized.

    Until enough people start agitating, it won't be readily obvious, but the message is out there and activist men are already putting this stuff in classrooms.


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    #50
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Is this thread relevant to gay men too or just within a hetero context?


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    #51
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Is this thread relevant to gay men too or just within a hetero context?

    I'd imagine it is relevant. Gay sexuality is surrounded by misconceptions. A very large number of people consider gay sexuality deviant, immoral or unnatural.


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    #52
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Galvasean wrote: »
    From the article linked in the OP:


    Then there's movies...
    300-movie03.jpg&sa=X&ei=H6ElToWlFc2LhQfnw4XmCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc4EQ&usg=AFQjCNE9Pn73Iwz7cD1YEnr5xWIRWnb5CQ
    Now THAT's hyper-masculinity! The movie 300 was aimed primarily at young males and proved hugely successful. One of the film's main themes was that of manliness. Abs, athleticism, testosterone, 300 has it all in Greek style urns!

    Theres also a massive amount of homoerotic subtext in 300, I dont think the pumped up macho teens were hoping for that :pac:


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    #53
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    krudler wrote: »
    Theres also a massive amount of homoerotic subtext in 300, I dont think the pumped up macho teens were hoping for that :pac:

    I got that impression just from the photo, not knowing anything about the film, hence my question.

    The wrestlers too seem to appeal to homo erotic vibe.


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    #54
    18AD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭18AD


    krudler wrote: »
    Theres also a massive amount of homoerotic subtext in 300, I dont think the pumped up macho teens were hoping for that :pac:

    An accurate representation of the ancient Greek lifestyle, no?


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    #55
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    krudler wrote: »
    Theres also a massive amount of homoerotic subtext in 300, I dont think the pumped up macho teens were hoping for that :pac:

    As 18AD said, Homosexuality was really not considered a big deal in Ancient Greece, especially in Athenian culture.

    It wasn't as common in Spartan, but still happened and was -mostly- accepted.
    Galvasean wrote: »
    As per the piece quoted, porn is one such example. Lets be honest, virtually every young male in this day and age watches porn, yet no one seems to care how such things might affect their developing sexuality. Think about it, you have this handsome man, built like a tank, perfect abs, full body wax, enormous cock and enough skill/stamina in the bedroom to easily sexually pleasure one several women in the bedroom. And yet we are supposed to believe that this can have no negative effect on a young man's self esteem. It should come as little surprise that a prominent concern for teenage boys / young men is whether their dick is large enough / whether they can satisfy a woman sexually.

    I concur with this completely.
    In my late teens I would spend hours a day exercising, because I was convinced I had to be buff and fit to get girls, and despite the fact I had dozens of sexual partners from the age of 16 to 21, I was convinced that because I didn't have an overly large penis like in pornos, I couldn't sexually please a girl during sex.

    Young men face the exact same issues that young women have to deal with (are my arms big enough, should my chest be wider, is my penis to small), but society simply brushes these things off and ignores it, and it does have a long term affect on the confidence of young men, so much so they often refuse to ever try to meet someone special, and will even turn away from a person who is genuinely physically and emotionally attracted to them.

    As for male sexuality.
    Well, I can't deny I enjoy more "aggressive" sex, I think it's extremely common in men to enjoy it, just like it's just as common in women to enjoy it to.

    For some reason, people seem to believe that because males enjoy aggressive sex, we're all potential rapists and twisted people.
    On the other hand, should this not also mean that women want to be raped?
    That part has always puzzled me, and even suggesting it in past conversations has gotten me a decent amount of abuse. It is however a logical conclusion to the whole belief.


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    #56
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    As 18AD said, Homosexuality was really not considered a big deal in Ancient Greece, especially in Athenian culture.

    It wasn't as common in Spartan, but still happened and was -mostly- accepted.

    IIRC in Spartan culture a man could 'do' his subordinates. The subordinate male would have to receive, but was not allowed to be the one doing the inserting.
    It was also customary for the warriors to rub oils on each others muscles and give each other baths after battle.
    REAL men aren't afraid to give each other baths!

    As for the attire in the film, the bare chestedness was a construct for the graphic novel of 300 to make the Spartans seem tougher (ie: they don't need armour). In reality they wore full plate armour (because y'know, that's sensible).

    FullArmor.jpg&sa=X&ei=luklTuq-M8XJhAerhPjyCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNHE4uS3Zd3Q-MPsWt1JBAefc7AYCA


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    #57
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Galvasean wrote: »
    REAL men aren't afraid to give each other baths!

    I greatly apologise for going offtopic, but seeing this instantly made me think of this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in9SiDtJLaU :D


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    #58
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    18AD wrote: »
    An accurate representation of the ancient Greek lifestyle, no?

    indeed, just like the ninjas, mutants, 8 foot men who think they're gods and cgi wolves :pac:


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    #59
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    I got that impression just from the photo, not knowing anything about the film, hence my question.

    The wrestlers too seem to appeal to homo erotic vibe.

    wrestlers as a whole are definitely much more of the pretty boy variety these days, compare the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin:

    stonecold.jpg

    to someone like Randy Orton:

    randy_orton-13866.jpg

    Theres always been plenty of homoerotic tendencies in wrestling, you're essentially watching two or more oiled up men roll around in headlocks and such, granted theres more than that to it, but thats usually the "wrestling is gay" argument from people who dont actually watch it


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    #60
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    TV Wrestling has always had a mixture of rugged everymen and more preened pretty boys. In the 40s Gorgeous George became one of the first of the pretty boys.
    I mean compare him,
    GG-Betty-name-change-crop.jpg&sa=X&ei=M_klTpzsA8mwhQeG8cWSCg&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFfxzGsFDuE0B9rHfGSZ610Oczwfw

    to a modern wrestler like The Big Show,
    2356365.jpg&sa=X&ei=lfklTs-XPMm0hAettrCXCg&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNE_2CIqJeXze8PWx8pPjiz7RJ-t-w

    Two competing brands of manliness.

    It does however seem that the attractive wrestlers have become bigger sellers these days. Interestingly, John Cena is the biggest draw in world wrestling today. He is an extremely handsome man and (as has been pointed out here) apparently has a homo-erotic vibe to him. Curiously though, the vast majority of his fans are kids. Maybe his clean cut good looks appeal to very young boys on some level, something to aspire to perhaps?
    When Steve Austin was the top draw his fanbase consisted mostly of men in their 20s and 30s. It seems as if the WWE decided that they had enough of that market and have recently switched to the (very lucrative) children's market.


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    #61
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Galvasean wrote: »

    It does however seem that the attractive wrestlers have become bigger sellers these days. Interestingly, John Cena is the biggest draw in world wrestling today. He is an extremely handsome man and (as has been pointed out here) apparently has a homo-erotic vibe to him. Curiously though, the vast majority of his fans are kids. Maybe his clean cut good looks appeal to very young boys on some level, something to aspire to perhaps?
    When Steve Austin was the top draw his fanbase consisted mostly of men in their 20s and 30s. It seems as if the WWE decided that they had enough of that market and have recently switched to the (very lucrative) children's market.

    Thats pretty much it, Cena is a clean cut, square jawed all American hero type, whereas Stone Cold Steve Austin was a rebellious, beer drinking, foul mouthed, middle finger giving hellraiser, the type of guy that fans in their 20s loved watching kick his bosses ass back in the 90's. The WWE has this uncanny knack for giving the public exactly what they want in their top draw wrestlers.


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