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NPPR help!!

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    #32
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Bepolite wrote: »
    There are a myriad of factors that hit poorer people who become unintentional landlords. As I've said they are forced into a situation where they have to sell. It could very well be the OP can't sell the house etc. etc.

    The vitriol and bitterness in this forum sometimes goes beyond a joke. I do wonder if many would be better actually taking their agendas and doing some good with them rather than just keep hammering away here that anyone that takes an alternative point of view while trying to offer a bit of constructive advice.

    So what do you suggest happens in this case? The fines for non payment of the tax get wiped away? If you do that then why would anyone pay taxes. Sadly you have to have very punitive fines and interest on tax to encourage people to pay on time.
    Secondly, your not poor if you own a house that's mortgage free, you mightn't have lots of euros in the bank account, but euros in the bank account is not a measure of wealth.


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    #33
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    So what do you suggest happens in this case? The fines for non payment of the tax get wiped away? If you do that then why would anyone pay taxes. Sadly you have to have very punitive fines and interest on tax to encourage people to pay on time.
    Secondly, your not poor if you own a house that's mortgage free, you mightn't have lots of euros in the bank account, but euros in the bank account is not a measure of wealth.

    I'd suggest registering it against the property. I fully support anything which stems the ridiculous situation we have here of people being able to purchase property, claim masses of tax relief, and have an asset largely paid for by someone else.

    That said it is a blinkered view to simply jump up and down going 'look what they have, look what they have!' If this is a house out in the sticks in Leitrim that has got run down over the years it's very possible the OP won't be able to sell it. As for renting it the front loaded costs could be significant in bringing it up to a standard where it can be rented - for a tiny sum owing to it's location. Not everyone is hoarding property in Dublin.

    Now granted, alot of conjecture. The OP has obfuscated the situation to say the least. However taking the position that owning a house that is mortgage free removes someone from poverty is simply naive.


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    #34
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    It is the council. However if it isn't settled by the September, a charge is then registered against the property and rightly so.

    Whether you agree or disagree with a tax, it doesn't mean you can decide not to pay it.

    That's why the penalties are so high.
    The same will happen with the people who thought they were smart not paying the household tax, eventually it'll come back to bite them in the ass

    Thanks for clarifying. I am all paid up with NPPR, Household and LPT charges. I was just confused about who is collecting it.


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    #35
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Bepolite wrote: »
    If this is a house out in the sticks in Leitrim that has got run down over the years it's very possible the OP won't be able to sell it.
    I would be extremely surprised if there was any residential property in Ireland which wouldnt fetch 7 grand at market.
    However taking the position that owning a house that is mortgage free removes someone from poverty is simply naive.

    Only in Ireland could someone be handed a property mortgage free and still put on the poor mouth. Its bizarre.


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    #36
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    drumswan wrote: »
    I would be extremely surprised if there was any residential property in Ireland which wouldnt fetch 7 grand at market.



    Only in Ireland could someone be handed a property mortgage free and still put on the poor mouth. Its bizarre.

    Honestly? Is this honestly your position and you can't see the issues?

    Firstly there are definitely properties in Ireland that you couldn't give away. They would range from properties so rural that no one will ever buy them, to listed properties in central Dublin and Cork that have prohibitive restoration costs.

    Secondly why should the OP have to sell off, potentially, their only asset to satisfy a tax debt, again potentially, far below market price. Even if we take the position that this is fair and equitable surely you see where this means that the poor are hit harder by this type of tax. To be fair that statement is a bit of truism as of course the poor are always hit harder by almost any tax.

    The only avenue I can see your argument going is the same as quadrifoglio verde's that any property given mortgage free means that you're not poor. As I've stated I think this position is a bit naive. Anything thats given and then encumbered can easily put you in a worse position than when you started.

    Again to reiterate I'm not against the tax, quite the contrary, renting should be vastly more expensive to landlords and the market should drive down rents (through demand as opposed to supply) so that it's exactly that - more expensive to landlords.

    Investigating the links supplied above (credit to quadrifoglio verde) take you to the links associated with hardship etc. Obviously someone in possession of a lot more facts than we have can make an informed decision as to whether the OP is genuine or not.

    Honestly as we squabble amongst ourselves over the scraps and the fact that someone's family home worth €300,000 has had the mortgage written down the fat cats with strings of properties are laughing at us - and rightly so.


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    #37
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Even if we take the position that this is fair and equitable surely you see where this means that the poor are hit harder by this type of tax.
    The poor are not hit at all by this type of tax, because they do not own non principal private residence properties. If you think poor people have holiday homes or mortgage free inheritance properties you are off your rocker. I really dont know what you are talking about.


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    #38
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    drumswan wrote: »
    The poor are not hit at all by this type of tax, because they do not own non principal private residence properties. If you think poor people have holiday homes or mortgage free inheritance properties you are off your rocker. I really dont know what you are talking about.

    No you clearly don't - fair enough no point in trying to explain it further. Sorry I didn't get through to you, lets just continue as we are - I'm doing okay and that's all that matters.


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    #39
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    drumswan wrote: »
    The poor are not hit at all by this type of tax, because they do not own non principal private residence properties. If you think poor people have holiday homes or mortgage free inheritance properties you are off your rocker. I really dont know what you are talking about.
    Bepolite wrote: »
    No you clearly don't - fair enough no point in trying to explain it further. Sorry I didn't get through to you, lets just continue as we are - I'm doing okay and that's all that matters.


    Can you two cut it out please


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    #40
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Surely the solicitor involved in the probate advised as to the €200 charge?


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    #41
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Surely the solicitor involved in the probate advised as to the €200 charge?

    Why?
    Its absolutely nothing to do with the solicitor.
    Its a tax- plain and simple- and most people don't go to their solicitor with tax queries.......

    It really sounds like you're trying to find someone to blame.......


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    #42
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Why?
    Its absolutely nothing to do with the solicitor.
    Its a tax- plain and simple- and most people don't go to their solicitor with tax queries.......

    It really sounds like you're trying to find someone to blame.......
    The solicitor would have advised on inheritance tax I assume. Certainly ime solicitors would advise of liability for NPPR when handling probate. Of course maybe probate was done without a solicitor.


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    #43
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    MouseTail wrote: »
    The solicitor would have advised on inheritance tax I assume. Certainly ime solicitors would advise of liability for NPPR when handling probate. Of course maybe probate was done without a solicitor.

    If a solicitor is handling probate- as they normally do- inheritance tax is part and parcel of the equation. However- NPPR on the property, roadtax on Dad's old car, or ensuring the television license for the property is uptodate- are not......

    Researching NPPR (and any other obligations)- is the remit of the owner of the property. Whether he/she bought the property, inherited the property, won it in a poker tournament, or got it through squatters rights- is neither here nor there- they have obligations- and pleading ignorance does not cut it.


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    #44
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I hope the revenue get all these tax Dodgers.... i didnt know ... appeals calling local TD etc gave me a break.


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    #45
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    correct me if I'm wrong in saying this but if you can wait it out until 31 March 2025 then the nppr liability is no longer a charge against a property which is sold?


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    #46
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    lifestooshort wrote: »
    correct me if I'm wrong in saying this but if you can wait it out until 31 March 2025 then the nppr liability is no longer a charge against a property which is sold?

    Can you provide a reference or a link to corroborate this please.


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    #47
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    environ.ie - the following titled document appears
    local government reform act 2014
    nppr charge - outstanding liabilities
    guidance note for city and county councils
    dept of the environment, community and local government
    section 2.9: certificates of discharge and exemption
    also on the oireachtas site under section 32 (3), document is titled LOCAL GOVERNMENT REFORM BILL 2013


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    #48
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Sorry- can you link to specific documents and or passages.
    I've spent 10 minutes ploughing through the 194 page Local Government Reform Bill 2013 that you referred to- and I am damned if I can find what you're referring to.


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    #49
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    lifetooshort, as a new user you can't post links, so if you send the links in pm to any of the mods we can include them in your posts.


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    #50
    jack_pearse
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭jack_pearse


    Its my understanding that that from 31st oct 2021 the charge and fines for 2009 will no longer apply to the property...And 31st march 2022 they will no longer apply for the 2010 charge etc. Is this correct?


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