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NPPR help!!

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  • 15-07-2011 12:45pm
    #1
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭


    I had heard there was to be a tax on NPPRs but did not know that it was up and running. I've been registered with the PRTB since day 1 (unlike many I'm sure). I just received a letter from the local Co.Co. advising me that I have to pay an annual charge of €200. I've since created an account on the NPPR site and it is telling me that I am liable for the charge (and penalties) going back to end March 2010!!!. It was not an NPPR on 31 March 2009.

    Anyone else get caught by this crap?. I am appealing.

    This NPPR is another quango right?, if the PRTB were charged with taking this annual charge then (1) there would be no issue and (2) we would have one less quango.


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    #2
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭markpb


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    This NPPR is another quango right?, if the PRTB were charged with taking this annual charge then (1) there would be no issue and (2) we would have one less quango.

    NPPR isn't a quango - it's a tax payable to your local authority.


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    #3
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Prtb and nppr are separate agencies.

    As a landlord you need to be registered with both. And pay the nppr.


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    #4
    Treehouse72
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Treehouse72


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    This NPPR is another quango right?, if the PRTB were charged with taking this annual charge then (1) there would be no issue and (2) we would have one less quango.


    No. The NPPR is administered by local authorities.

    And it's not "crap". It's a sensible and fair measure designed to control the rampant cretinism that got this country into such a mess.


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    #5
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    amdublin wrote: »
    Prtb and nppr are separate agencies.

    As a landlord you need to be registered with both. And pay the nppr.

    That's the point. The PRTB could collect this charge. No need for NPPR. Another effin quango that's all it is.


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    #6
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    Treehouse72 wrote: »
    No. The NPPR is administered by local authorities.

    And it's not "crap". It's a sensible and fair measure designed to control the rampant cretinism that got this country into such a mess.

    Too little, far too late methinks...


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    #7
    Treehouse72
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Treehouse72


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    That's the point. The PRTB could collect this charge. No need for NPPR. Another effin quango that's all it is.


    Leslie, NPPR = Non Principle Private Residence.

    It is not an acronym for a quango.


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    #8
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    Treehouse72 wrote: »
    Leslie, NPPR = Non Principle Private Residence.

    It is not an acronym for a quango.

    Apologies your'e right. I take it back, it is not a quango. But the NPPR charge should/could be better administered by the PRTB.


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    #9
    lainey316
    Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭lainey316


    Not all NPPRs are rentals. Some are holiday homes, some are unoccupied inheritances, some are (no, really, still) city pads. PRTB is irrelevant in all such cases.


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    #10
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    Apologies your'e right. I take it back, it is not a quango. But the NPPR charge should/could be better administered by the PRTB.

    But why :confused:

    The prtb is related to the relationship between the LL and the tenant.
    The nppr is related to tax.

    Why would an agency dealing with tenant disputes collect tax :confused:


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    #11
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    Apologies your'e right. I take it back, it is not a quango. But the NPPR charge should/could be better administered by the PRTB.

    Fewer than 1-in-4 properties registered to pay the NPPR are occupied rental propertie. It is a tax thats paid directly to local councils and authorities. I don't understand why you imagine the PRTB should be involved in this at all?


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    #12
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP- just ring the number on the website for the particular council that you're in. There is no need to appeal it or go through any rigmarole- they can override it for you. It may necessitate setting up a new account- but they'll happily talk you through it. Give them a ring......


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    #13
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    I had heard there was to be a tax on NPPRs but did not know that it was up and running. I've been registered with the PRTB since day 1 (unlike many I'm sure). I just received a letter from the local Co.Co. advising me that I have to pay an annual charge of €200. I've since created an account on the NPPR site and it is telling me that I am liable for the charge (and penalties) going back to end March 2010!!!. It was not an NPPR on 31 March 2009.

    Anyone else get caught by this crap?. I am appealing.

    This NPPR is another quango right?, if the PRTB were charged with taking this annual charge then (1) there would be no issue and (2) we would have one less quango.


    How is it crap. Have you been living under a rock. There have been newspaper ads and radio ads every year for weeks and weeks reminding people of the deadline to pay.

    Ignorance isnt an excuse. Appeal all you like fact is you owe the money and the penalties.


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    #14
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    smccarrick wrote: »
    OP- just ring the number on the website for the particular council that you're in. There is no need to appeal it or go through any rigmarole- they can override it for you. It may necessitate setting up a new account- but they'll happily talk you through it. Give them a ring......

    Did you have any joy/know of someone who got it written off?.

    I called them, attempted to appeal, went round in circles for months.

    The bottom line is that there is NO appeals process for the NPPR. None. In fairness to my local council they did allow a small amount off the penalties but not as much as I thought would be fair.

    I've now paid the 2012 charge too, and the household charge and am still renting to rent (at a loss).

    To those of you having a go, the NPPR charge was not set up to attack the likes of me and yet I am being royally screwed by it. I've had this admitted to me by both the council and a TD.


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    #15
    not even wrong
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭not even wrong


    Leslie91 wrote: »
    Did you have any joy/know of someone who got it written off?.

    I called them, attempted to appeal, went round in circles for months.
    Appealing on what grounds exactly?


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    #16
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    not even wrong wrote: »
    Appealing on what grounds exactly?

    This comes back to the no invoice/bill argument you are hearing ref the household charge today.

    The onus is on the person liable to come forth and pay up. In my case I was unaware (no BS) that the NPPR charge was in existence, it was only when I was contacted via the PRTB that I learned of it. I immediately went to pay the €200 and it was refused because there were penalties owing.

    Yes... I know it is my responsibility yada yada yada... but our personal circumstances meant we had a case (council and TD admitted such and agreed), yet there was no appeals process to go through. Another example of poorly thought out and rushed thru legislation.


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    #17
    wccnppr
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭wccnppr


    hi
    we just got notification that we owe €4,500 in arrears on nppr.
    this goes up to €7,000 on sept 1st.
    how are we supposed to pay when husband on dole.
    he inherited house from his mother.
    didn't even know nppr existed.
    has anyone paid these penalties or worked something out with their council.?
    appreciate any help.


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    #18
    wccnppr
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭wccnppr


    just another way of fleecing the poor unfortunates who had nothing to do with ruining the country.
    my husband on dole. he just inherited family home. very small house. he now has to pay €4,220 now or €7,220 on sept 1st.
    not a hope of paying this money. wish he hadn't been left the house now.
    pulling my hair out as to the consequences of not paying. any advice?


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    #19
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    wccnppr wrote: »
    just another way of fleecing the poor unfortunates who had nothing to do with ruining the country.
    my husband on dole. he just inherited family home. very small house. he now has to pay €4,220 now or €7,220 on sept 1st.
    not a hope of paying this money. wish he hadn't been left the house now.
    pulling my hair out as to the consequences of not paying. any advice?

    Just as in recently or just as in only? How long ago did he inherit it?


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    #20
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    wccnppr wrote: »
    hi
    we just got notification that we owe €4,500 in arrears on nppr.
    this goes up to €7,000 on sept 1st.
    how are we supposed to pay when husband on dole.
    he inherited house from his mother.
    didn't even know nppr existed.
    has anyone paid these penalties or worked something out with their council.?
    appreciate any help.

    I do feel for you and this is yet another example of a tax hitting the poorer harder. That said the tax is there to try an rebalance the market to a degree. If you're renting out the property then, unintentional or not, you're landlords and you need to make sure you're armed with all the info you need to run your business.

    I would suggest looking to sell the property and seeing if the local council would be prepared to wait in applying penalties until this is done and you're able to settle the debt.


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    #21
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,648 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    wccnppr wrote: »
    just another way of fleecing the poor unfortunates who had nothing to do with ruining the country.
    my husband on dole. he just inherited family home. very small house. he now has to pay €4,220 now or €7,220 on sept 1st.
    not a hope of paying this money. wish he hadn't been left the house now.
    pulling my hair out as to the consequences of not paying. any advice?

    Is the house rented out?

    Would you consider selling in order to clear this debt?


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    #22
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭fash


    wccnppr wrote: »
    he just inherited family home. very small house. he now has to pay €4,220 now or €7,220 on sept 1st.
    If he just inherited it- it inherited it in the last year or so- there is no nppr to pay.
    If he inherited in the last 2 or 3 years, you can half or quarter the nppr to be paid


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    #23
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bepolite wrote: »
    I do feel for you and this is yet another example of a tax hitting the poorer harder.

    How is it hitting the poor harder. If I inherited a house and couldnt pay the €200 a year it costs in NPPR it would be easilty covered by

    a) the rent
    b) sale of the asset.

    Ive no sympathy for anybody whose due to have a 7 grand charge put against their property. They thought they were being clever refusing to pay and are getting exactly what they deserve.

    Good enough for them.


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    #24
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Bepolite wrote: »
    I do feel for you and this is yet another example of a tax hitting the poorer harder.

    How so? Its a staggered tax- the lower the value of the property- the lower your payments. If anything- its a tax on those living in Dublin- more so than a tax on the poorer- as a hovel in Dublin could be valued at more than a palatial house down the country. The issue I have with the tax is there is no cognisance of the property- its all to do with values. A fairer system would ascribe half the tax to the house size/type- and the other half to the value of the property.
    Bepolite wrote: »
    That said the tax is there to try an rebalance the market to a degree.

    Nope. Its an attempt to remove government supports to local councils, by making them self funding. The lower property densities of rural areas are recognised in the 15% redistribution of taxes from the central kitty all taxes are paid into.
    Bepolite wrote: »
    If you're renting out the property then, unintentional or not, you're landlords and you need to make sure you're armed with all the info you need to run your business.

    Big time. A major issue in this country is amateur landlords.
    Bepolite wrote: »
    I would suggest looking to sell the property and seeing if the local council would be prepared to wait in applying penalties until this is done and you're able to settle the debt.

    Its nothing to do with the local council anymore- its gone to the Revenue Commissioners.

    I don't accept that people didn't know they had to pay the tax- and are now wailing about the penalties that are being applied. Its been discussed ad nauseum in the media for literally years. The issue is a significant cohort of people who thought they'd get away without paying it- who are now getting caught out- as the Revenue Commissioners are now tasked with collecting the arrears- so these refuseniks no longer have anywhere to hide.


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    #25
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    wccnppr wrote: »
    just another way of fleecing the poor unfortunates who had nothing to do with ruining the country.
    my husband on dole. he just inherited family home. very small house. he now has to pay €4,220 now or €7,220 on sept 1st.
    not a hope of paying this money. wish he hadn't been left the house now.
    pulling my hair out as to the consequences of not paying. any advice?

    Don't pay and let it go to 7220 where it'll exist as a charge against the property for 12 years.
    Or sell now to raise the money as well as giving yourselves some much needed breathing space.
    Or contact the council and arrange a payment plan.

    I don't buy this notion that he "just" inherited it. If he did he wouldn't be liable for any of these charges as he was to the owner of the property when the charges were due.


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    #26
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    If you're trolling looking for a response- be careful.......
    You deleted my post and then quoted it? Thats a new one, even for you.

    People who own houses with no mortgage on them are not poor. Is that point OK with you?


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    #27
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    D3PO wrote: »
    How is it hitting the poor harder. If I inherited a house and couldnt pay the €200 a year it costs in NPPR it would be easilty covered by

    a) the rent
    b) sale of the asset.

    Ive no sympathy for anybody whose due to have a 7 grand charge put against their property. They thought they were being clever refusing to pay and are getting exactly what they deserve.

    Good enough for them.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    How so? Its a staggered tax- the lower the value of the property- the lower your payments. If anything- its a tax on those living in Dublin- more so than a tax on the poorer- as a hovel in Dublin could be valued at more than a palatial house down the country. The issue I have with the tax is there is no cognisance of the property- its all to do with values. A fairer system would ascribe half the tax to the house size/type- and the other half to the value of the property.

    I assumed the OP had the property rented and was having an issue covering the inheritance tax associated with getting the house. Why this tax hits the poorer harder is if they acquire an asset like this they are almost always going to be in a position to have to sell it. Someone better off will be able to absorb the front loaded costs associated with renting it out and keep the asset.


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    #28
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bepolite wrote: »
    . Why this tax hits the poorer harder is if they acquire an asset like this they are almost always going to be in a position to have to sell it. Someone better off will be able to absorb the front loaded costs associated with renting it out and keep the asset.

    Im sorry but what a load of nonsense.

    Somebody renting out an inherited house couldnt afford €200 at the outset ....... ?

    Gimme a break.

    theres no mention that inheritance tax was a factor here and if it was then so be it you sell the asset. Give its a "cheap house" theres very little likelyhood any inheritance tax was due anyway.


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    #29
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    I thought the NPPR is being collected by the local councils while the household charge and LPT is collected by revenue?

    Can someone clarify that? Number 13 here indicates it is the local council http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/faqs/local-authorities.html


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    #30
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    D3PO wrote: »
    Im sorry but what a load of nonsense.

    Somebody renting out an inherited house couldnt afford €200 at the outset ....... ?

    Gimme a break.

    theres no mention that inheritance tax was a factor here and if it was then so be it you sell the asset. Give its a "cheap house" theres very little likelyhood any inheritance tax was due anyway.

    There are a myriad of factors that hit poorer people who become unintentional landlords. As I've said they are forced into a situation where they have to sell. It could very well be the OP can't sell the house etc. etc.

    The vitriol and bitterness in this forum sometimes goes beyond a joke. I do wonder if many would be better actually taking their agendas and doing some good with them rather than just keep hammering away here that anyone that takes an alternative point of view while trying to offer a bit of constructive advice.


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    #31
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    garhjw wrote: »
    I thought the NPPR is being collected by the local councils while the household charge and LPT is collected by revenue?

    Can someone clarify that? Number 13 here indicates it is the local council http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/faqs/local-authorities.html

    It is the council. However if it isn't settled by the September, a charge is then registered against the property and rightly so.

    Whether you agree or disagree with a tax, it doesn't mean you can decide not to pay it.

    That's why the penalties are so high.
    The same will happen with the people who thought they were smart not paying the household tax, eventually it'll come back to bite them in the ass


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