Seamus Quirke roadworks merge

Amhran Nua

Madame Razz wrote: »

These roadworks are really starting to get on my wick:mad:

Drives me bats when people turn right into Aldi, it stalls traffic back past Westside shopping centre. I mean its not like there isn't a literal big neon sign telling them to go up the back way just past the traffic lights. They should put up that no right turn sign again. Similar for people coming out of Aldi, the number of times I've seen cars stretched perpendicular to two lanes of traffic.

Iwannahurl

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Drives me bats when people turn right into Aldi, it stalls traffic back past Westside shopping centre. I mean its not like there isn't a literal big neon sign telling them to go up the back way just past the traffic lights. They should put up that no right turn sign again. Similar for people coming out of Aldi, the number of times I've seen cars stretched perpendicular to two lanes of traffic.

Turning right out of Aldi was always stupid and should never have been allowed. I once worked in one of the premises in that complex, and when I drove I used to have to queue to get out of the car-park. Held up by lazy idiots who insisted on trying to turn right in rush-hour traffic, when there were other options available by turning left.

Such brainless Lemming-like behaviour helped me to get out of routine car use though. Cycling beats all.

bloo

Hi,

Just out of interest, which bus services will be using the new bus lanes? Does anyone know if there will be new services or will existing ones be changed? I can only think of 2 that head out that way (their the ones I use, but i assume theres more), both of which wouldnt use the bus lanes at least in their entirety.

Sponge Bob

bloo wrote: »

Hi,
Just out of interest, which bus services will be using the new bus lanes? Does anyone know if there will be new services or will existing ones be changed?

This is Galway , the answer is probably 2 like you said but they will renumber the routes. As has been predicted in this thread the 2 bus lanes will be a 24/7 'Smart' 'Green' folly costing €10m plus the accumulated cost of all the disruption while constructed.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This is Galway , the answer is probably 2 like you said but they will renumber the routes. As has been predicted in this thread the 2 bus lanes will be a 24/7 'Smart' 'Green' folly costing €10m plus the accumulated cost of all the disruption while constructed.

Probably the biggest users of the bus lane initially will be cyclists and taxis.

snubbleste

There is a dispute between developers and residents over the proposed removal of 50 mature trees alongside Corrib park. Developer’s Coffey construction are planning to cut down the 30 year old trees for road realignment and it's understood this was never indicated at the planning stage. http://www.galwaynews.ie/19403-temporary-reprieve-50-westside-trees

In the olden days, they would've been removed and then the Council would shrug their shoulders and say 'we dunno who dun it'
Those trees are needed to screen the houses from the road or vice versa. Save the Trees!

Sponge Bob

There is another dispute at Dúnárás , around here

It appears the corpo does not own the land they need to take and the management company wants €200k for it.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19408-legal-threat-could-cause-major-quirke-road-hold

THE €10m Seamus Quirke road enhancement project could face a major delay after it emerged this week that lands encroached on by the contractor had not been legally secured by the City Council.

at1withmyself

snubbleste wrote: »

There is a dispute between developers and residents over the proposed removal of 50 mature trees alongside Corrib park. Developer’s Coffey construction are planning to cut down the 30 year old trees for road realignment and it's understood this was never indicated at the planning stage. http://www.galwaynews.ie/19403-temporary-reprieve-50-westside-trees

In the olden days, they would've been removed and then the Council would shrug their shoulders and say 'we dunno who dun it'
Those trees are needed to screen the houses from the road or vice versa. Save the Trees!

If they are planning on putting up new tree's then I don't see the problem but this is turning into Eyre Square round II with money and tree issue!

The inbound section is taking shape from the lower Rahoon Road junction with the curbs now in place along a good section down to the roundabout by Corrib Park.

gandroid

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This is Galway , the answer is probably 2 like you said but they will renumber the routes. As has been predicted in this thread the 2 bus lanes will be a 24/7 'Smart' 'Green' folly costing €10m plus the accumulated cost of all the disruption while constructed.

Surely they can reconsider this. It's shocking & illogical that 50% of the lanes will be taken up by buses, especially on a 24/7 basis...even if they were bus lanes at peak times but I guess that is also the time when both lanes would be needed by cars. But one 24/7 bus lane both ways is a waste....considering the cost involved.

what_traffic

gandroid wrote: »

It's shocking & illogical that 50% of the lanes will be taken up buy buses, especially on a 24/7 basis...even if they were bus lanes at peak times but I guess that is also the time when both lanes would be needed by cars.

I think you have just actually explained the logic quite well of it being a 24h bus lane.

Pure Sound

It’s impossible to please everybody, personally I think that the idea of having bus lanes and cycle lanes is a far better than two lane traffic. Everyone always claims that the bus service in Galway is unreliable yet complain when the council decide that they want to do something about it to make it a more accessible form of transport.

The problem with upgrading a road to hold more traffic is that it will do exactly that, more people will want to drive and the bus service continues to be unreliable so we are back in the same position - the newly updated infrastructure can't cope with the traffic. By making public transport more accessible and reliable you can change attitudes towards public transport, thus reducing traffic flow. The same applies for accessibility to safe cycle lanes. This type of system also has the potential to reduce Galway’s overall carbon emissions which is also important.

I currently drive a car but I am hoping to start cycling to work soon. Cycle lanes will make that a hell of a lot easier.

Iwannahurl

at1withmyself wrote: »

If they are planning on putting up new tree's then I don't see the problem but this is turning into Eyre Square round II with money and tree issue!

The inbound section is taking shape from the lower Rahoon Road junction with the curbs now in place along a good section down to the roundabout by Corrib Park.

May I ask a favour? Can you keep an eye on where they're routing services such as ESB cables? I'm interested to know how their placement relates to the new road layout.

Iwannahurl

We Need Community wrote: »

It’s impossible to please everybody, personally I think that the idea of having bus lanes and cycle lanes is a far better than two lane traffic. Everyone always claims that the bus service in Galway is unreliable yet complain when the council decide that they want to do something about it to make it a more accessible form of transport.

The problem with upgrading a road to hold more traffic is that it will do exactly that, more people will want to drive and the bus service continues to be unreliable so we are back in the same position - the newly updated infrastructure can't cope with the traffic. By making public transport more accessible and reliable you can change attitudes towards public transport, thus reducing traffic flow. The same applies for accessibility to safe cycle lanes. This type of system also has the potential to reduce Galway’s overall carbon emissions which is also important.

I currently drive a car but I am hoping to start cycling to work soon. Cycle lanes will make that a hell of a lot easier.

Generally agreed. Many motorists simply can't or won't appreciate the rationale for bus lanes.

However, in relation to cycle lanes I would advise caution. Beware of casually following cycle lanes that may direct you inside left-turning traffic (such collisions being a significant cause of death and injury among cyclists in Ireland).

You should also be aware that the City Council have absolutely no plans for improving the safety of cyclists on the roundabouts at either end of the Seamus Quirke Road upgrade. Roundabouts are the most dangerous junction type for cyclists in Galway, IMO, so I wish you luck!

Pure Sound

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Generally agreed. Many motorists simply can't or won't appreciate the rationale for bus lanes.

However, in relation to cycle lanes I would advise caution. Beware of casually following cycle lanes that may direct you inside left-turning traffic (such collisions being a significant cause of death and injury among cyclists in Ireland).

You should also be aware that the City Council have absolutely no plans for improving the safety of cyclists on the roundabouts at either end of the Seamus Quirke Road upgrade. Roundabouts are the most dangerous junction type for cyclists in Galway, IMO, so I wish you luck!

I can see that they have overlooked a lot with regards to cyclists on this route but it is still a step in the right direction. The road as it stands and prior to development is/was far more dangerous for cyclists then the proposed plans. They have the right idea in my opinion in the council with this development but it is fairly obvious that the people who planned it do not cycle. Fortunately for myself I will be cycling on more off peak times so hopefully it will be a bit safer then.

Iwannahurl

By the way, well done on switching to the bike.

One less car!

gandroid

what_traffic wrote: »

I think you have just actually explained the logic quite well of it being a 24h bus lane.

I don't follow. My comments are based on what others said such as only 2 bus routes using this road at the moment so unless that changes then 24hr bus lanes just don't make sense on such a busy route as the public transport network is not comprehensive enough to get people to where they need to go.

Also even if there were more bus services, it would still not justify it imo as whether we like it or not most motorists will still choose (or be forced) to use their own cars; in many cases they have no choice especially as this route is used to get through/around the city for many commuters. Furthermore, the outer bypass is not going to be developed anytime soon so we're stuck with this as the main artery and most people do need to use cars for the type of journey they are undertaking. Therefore, in the context of the cost of the development (and the disruption caused by it) if there is a new road perfectly wide for more traffic lanes that would be utilised more of the time (with priority for buses during peak times) it makes sense to use them efficiently. I'm not sure about the plan for cycle lanes but I believe they are seperate and are obviously welcome.

Iwannahurl

gandroid wrote: »

I don't follow. My comments are based on what others said such as only 2 bus routes using this road at the moment so unless that changes then 24hr bus lanes just don't make sense on such a busy route as the public transport network is not comprehensive enough to get people to where they need to go.

Also even if there were more bus services, it would still not justify it imo as whether we like it or not most motorists will still choose (or be forced) to use their own cars; in many cases they have no choice especially as this route is used to get through/around the city for many commuters. Furthermore, the outer bypass is not going to be developed anytime soon so we're stuck with this as the main artery and most people do need to use cars for the type of journey they are undertaking. Therefore, in the context of the cost of the development (and the disruption caused by it) if there is a new road perfectly wide for more traffic lanes that would be utilised more of the time (with priority for buses during peak times) it makes sense to use them efficiently. I'm not sure about the plan for cycle lanes but I believe they are seperate and are obviously welcome.

I thought about this a little as I drove through Claregalway recently, where there is a 24-hour bus lane in operation. Why, I wondered, was I being made to drive in single file past an empty lane?

The answer, I suspect, is that if both lanes are opened to the usual single-occupant private car traffic then the ultimate effect will merely be to facilitate motorists to get to the traffic jam faster.

Traffic expands to meet the space available. If you make two lanes of the SQR then you will have two lines of traffic heading towards the next bottleneck. Building more roads and allocating more road space to private cars does not solve traffic congestion -- quite the opposite. Traffic speed, traffic volume and junction capacity are related. It's a much more efficient use of space and resources to prioritise public transport, since this can address congestion and sustainability issues in a way that private cars can't.

gandroid

Yes in theory your common sense/scientific diagram is probably accurate in big cities where they have realistic alternatives and a comprehensive interconnected network of trains, trams and buses. So you could get from relatively near your home to a location on the other side of the city with ease, using frequent on-time services or to join an equally comprehensive national inter-city network but that simply isn't the case in Galway...and the SQR is one of our main arteries for traffic (mainly cars) for this very reason and will continue to remain so. Take for example people who live in Barna/Furbo (and a lot more people come from a lot further than Barna & Furbo) who commute everyday to the city/hospital/University/eastern industrial estates....what are their options realistically? Without even bringing things like our climate/dropping kids to school into it....

I am all for less congestion, believe me...but I think people are being very idealistic and if we have a new wide road....you have to be realistic based on the current needs (again...no outer ring road!) and use it efficiently with priority to vehicles carrying more people like your diagram so obviously explained. If we build a better public transport network then things might be different. There is a bit of chicken and egg here too obviously.

Another point about single lanes is not everyone is going straight on so with 2 lanes those turning off do not have to delay those behind them (as is painfully obvious to those of us who have to drive :eek: on that road at the moment during the upgrade). Now I think this issue may be addressed with turning lanes so it may not be such a problem. Also, more lanes doesn't always lead to further congestion up ahead as not all vehicles are going to the same place, some turn off or terminate along the way; the hospital & university are big examples of this in this particular situation or people turning off to Rahoon Road/other estates/WDR going the other way.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

Iwannahurl

I'm not a roads engineer so I can't give you chapter and verse on lanes, destinations and congestion.

However, it is an established fact (accepted by transport authorities internationally) that building more roads does not reduce congestion in the long run, and can even increase it.

A suite of traffic & transport measures is needed, not just bus lanes. Park & Ride is one solution for out-of-town traffic. As for the school run, there are an awful lot of Johnnies and Marys that could and should be walking or cycling.

There may be chickens and eggs, but at the end of the day policy/political decisions need to be made. Do we want to keep facilitating more and more private cars, or do we want to prioritise more sustainable and efficient modes?

One of the biggest barriers to frequent on-time bus services is traffic congestion (including rampant illegal parking). A political decision needs to be taken to reduce car traffic and reallocate space to public transport, cycling and walking. The signs are that such decisions are being made, however slowly and uncertainly. Welcome to the future...

gandroid

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not a roads engineer so I can't give you chapter and verse on lanes, destinations and congestion.

However, it is an established fact (accepted by transport authorities internationally) that building more roads does not reduce congestion in the long run, and can even increase it.

A suite of traffic & transport measures is needed, not just bus lanes. Park & Ride is one solution for out-of-town traffic. As for the school run, there are an awful lot of Johnnies and Marys that could and should be walking or cycling.

There may be chickens and eggs, but at the end of the day policy/political decisions need to be made. Do we want to keep facilitating more and more private cars, or do we want to prioritise more sustainable and efficient modes?

One of the biggest barriers to frequent on-time bus services is traffic congestion (including rampant illegal parking). A political decision needs to be taken to reduce car traffic and reallocate space to public transport, cycling and walking. The signs are that such decisions are being made, however slowly and uncertainly. Welcome to the future...

Facts can be selective. Your answer is still idealistic. I wish for a better public transport system too but we're a long way from it.

Iwannahurl

gandroid wrote: »

Facts can be selective. Your answer is still idealistic. I wish for a better public transport system too but we're a long way from it.

We certainly live in a country where infrastructural development is painfully slow and often chaotic badly implemented.

However, since we all supposedly want better public transport, constructing bus lanes is a step in the right direction.

gandroid

Iwannahurl wrote: »

We certainly live in a country where infrastructural development is painfully slow and often chaotic badly implemented.

However, since we all supposedly want better public transport, constructing bus lanes is a step in the right direction.

Yes constructing bus lanes is good, never disputed that. But 24hr bus lanes are a waste of taxpayer's money if they are under utilised. You can't just do it in isolation and as you pointed out in your previous post Park & Ride facilities are required and as far I am aware, none are planned. I'm open to correction. I don't think anyone would be happy to see infrequent empty buses using 50% of the road space. It's not as simple as saying car owners (who have to drive) are bad and those few that can cycle (due to their lifestyle/place of residence) are responsible.

Iwannahurl

gandroid wrote: »

Yes constructing bus lanes is good, never disputed that. But 24hr bus lanes are a waste of taxpayer's money if they are under utilised. You can't just do it in isolation and as you pointed out in your previous post Park & Ride facilities are required and as far I am aware, none are planned. I'm open to correction. I don't think anyone would be happy to see infrequent empty buses using 50% of the road space. It's not as simple as saying car owners (who have to drive) are bad and those few that can cycle (due to their lifestyle/place of residence) are responsible.

A very large proportion of car trips in Galway City are single-occupant and over short distances (and that's not even including the school run where kids over a certain age could be cycling and walking).

In other countries cycle commuting is commonplace. Apart from infrastructural deficiencies, there is also a cultural resistance to cycling in this country. Such social attitudes are not a good enough reason to orient public policy in favour of private car use, IMO. If necessary we need to be dragged kicking and screaming in the direction of saner and more sustainable transport practices.

Sponge Bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

there is also a cultural resistance to cycling in this country.

Rain and Potholes filled with rainwater are not "cultural"..m'kay!

gandroid

I feel you're still missing the point iwannahurl. As I said earlier, do you think it's realistic/safe/logical to cylce from Spiddal/Barna/Furbo/Indreabhán/Casla to the other side of the city? It's barely safe to do so from Knocknacarra. If you've ever cycled as far as Spiddal you would know that road (to take one example) isn't a road that could be considered safe for cyclists....I wish it was....but it's not imo.

People have to get to work in the most practical way possible. Very often that involves driving themselves by themselves. If you have no kids and live within a few kilometres in somewhere like Knocknacarra or Rahoon that's one thing, cycling is an option (albeit not a safe one) when it's not raining ....but as I've already said this is one of the main arteries for commuters to get through/around the city and part of the reason it's being upgraded is to cater for the needs of these people also...not just for people who live near this section of road but for all the people coming through the city by car from both directions.

The climate is a huge thing as Sponge Bob said but so is the lack of public transport network. Also the way we planned (if that is not a misnomer) and developed housing and other services is not conducive to people using public transport (where it even exists). People do not all live in suburbs convenient to a tram/train/metro or even bus stop like Brussels, Paris or London....many of them live up bóithríns off another bóthrín a couple of miles off the main road and whether you like it or not, they are forced to drive.

inisboffin

Is it possible to encourage bus lane access for larger occupancy vehicles? I know taxis are allowed in bus lanes, but what about cars with 3+ people (kids included). Wouldn't that address both issues and encourage carpooling? I seem to remembe some routes in the US that had 3+ carpool lanes as opposed to 2+ (even 2+ may help). And yeah, there's the inflatable man argument, but just lob up the fines for that one if people seriously do it that much!

Robbo

inisboffin wrote: »

And yeah, there's the inflatable man argument, but just lob up the fines for that one if people seriously do it that much!

Larry David and the Carpool lane, that is all.

jkforde

just heard on GBFM that Hayes \ Council only had a verbal agreement on the lands in dispute... a verbal agreement. what level of incompetence are we willing\ able to tolerate? this project has been in planning for how long?.... and they only had a verbal agreement? if this was a private company Hayes & Co. would be fired

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Rain and Potholes filled with rainwater are not "cultural"..m'kay!

True dat, but we also have strange cultural attitudes to dressing appropriately for wet weather, not to mention the construction and maintenance of roads!

Iwannahurl

gandroid wrote: »

I feel you're still missing the point iwannahurl. As I said earlier, do you think it's realistic/safe/logical to cylce from Spiddal/Barna/Furbo/Indreabhán/Casla to the other side of the city? It's barely safe to do so from Knocknacarra. If you've ever cycled as far as Spiddal you would know that road (to take one example) isn't a road that could be considered safe for cyclists....I wish it was....but it's not imo.

People have to get to work in the most practical way possible. Very often that involves driving themselves by themselves. If you have no kids and live within a few kilometres in somewhere like Knocknacarra or Rahoon that's one thing, cycling is an option (albeit not a safe one) when it's not raining ....but as I've already said this is one of the main arteries for commuters to get through/around the city and part of the reason it's being upgraded is to cater for the needs of these people also...not just for people who live near this section of road but for all the people coming through the city by car from both directions.

The climate is a huge thing as Sponge Bob said but so is the lack of public transport network. Also the way we planned (if that is not a misnomer) and developed housing and other services is not conducive to people using public transport (where it even exists). People do not all live in suburbs convenient to a tram/train/metro or even bus stop like Brussels, Paris or London....many of them live up bóithríns off another bóthrín a couple of miles off the main road and whether you like it or not, they are forced to drive.

I'm not missing the point at all. I just think that as individuals and as a society we have to start making different choices.

There's some class of a Park & (st)Ride on the west side of the city; Cappagh Road perhaps? In addition there are several locations, including Salthill, where cars can be parked for free. I know of at least one person who parks her car in Salthill and uses a folding bike to get to work.

The dangers of cycling are exaggerated generally, although I accept that Galway City has various cycle-hostile features, including roundabouts and bad/inconsiderate drivers. The role of weather is also exaggerated, IMO.

I have been a cyclist since I was a child, and not too long ago commuted 120km a week to work and back.

All that said, I know that people commuting into the cit are not in the same position as city dwellers. An awful lot of single-occupant car journeys within the city are superfluous, however.