Seamus Quirke roadworks merge

jkforde

In case people don't know...

Monday September 27, 2010 signals the commencement of the long awaited improvement works for the Bishop O' Donnell / Seamus Quirke Road. The expected completion date for the scheme is October 2011.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/090910_03.html

plonk

Thank **** Im moving into town at the end of the month. This is well needed, but I would love to know how the Kingston and taylors hill junction will handle the greater level of traffic

?Cee?view

Don't know what you're saying thank fu(k for?*

This will only make things worse.

We now have a road with one traffic lane in each direction and after October 2011 (yeah right!) we'll have........................




A road with one traffic lane in each direction.



The Greens, Labour and ex Labour people who had this "modified" should be buried under this when it's finished :mad:

Robbo

24 hour buslanes when we don't have 24 hour buses? Marvellous. If they'd done them as 8 am-8 pm buslanes, the buses would gain their advantage at peak times and outside of them, the second lane in each direction would ease congestion. That, however would be too sensible a solution...

galah

and still no proper bus service for people living on the outskirts of town...gggaaaah.

not looking forward to this one...(they should really have a combined bus lane/"cars with more than 3 passengers" lane, to promote car pooling, for example, if they can't provide proper public transport...).

skelliser

10 million and one year to build two bus lanes!!
****ing joke shop!

Malice

For God's sake, one of the busiest routes in the city and the solution from the powers that be is to put in not one but two bus lanes? Brilliant! :mad:

Sponge Bob

and they will reduce the width of the existing single lanes.

I would welcome our green and labour overlords were they buried under the shaggin thing Anytime during the 14 months it will take them to build 1 mile of road would be fine as long as I get the chance to pour some concrete

Malice

I commuted from Barna to Parkmore and then to Oranmore for about four years and it was only after I had to move down south last year that I appreciated just how horrendous the evening traffic can be. I suppose my employers didn't mind that I'd willingly stay in the office until 7pm just to try to cut down the amount of time spent crawling across the city but it really wrecks your quality of life.
One of the major bottlenecks as you all know is the Seamus Quirke road and yet, rather than try to solve the problem properly, a half-assed solution is thrown together. I wonder is Barna going to get a proper bus service that suits commuters so that they can travel on the new shiny bus lanes (in both directions )?

Mrs OBumble

In fairness, unless they put the bus lanes in there would be little point in improving the bus services. (Except for Barna - the service from there is truly pathetic, given that it's really just a suburb on the edge of the city).

But bus lanes plus and improved service would be a fantastic incentive to leave the car at home.

KevR

I might eventually reluctantly support the bus lanes if there is a drastic improvement to bus services and if there is a drastic uptake of the improved services (improved services will be a huge waste if the buses are running nearly empty of passengers as they often are at present).

But I don't know of any plans at present to improve the bus services once the bus lanes open. There should be a plan in place right now and it should be publicised. If there is no plan then the road should be upgraded 2+2 all purpose. Let's not forget that a 2+2 all purpose would improve bus journey times and reliability; it wouldn't just improve things for private cars.

It's important to point out that no city bus services use the Seamus Quirke/Bishop O'Donnell along this stretch. BE's Rahoon-->City Centre buses turn left and go along Circular and the Siobhan McKenna roads. City Direct buses turn right a few metres further on and use the Rahoon/Shantalla Road. I will actually explode if they make that stretch a bus lane and don't immediately start running buses on it. There is zero justification for having an Eastbound bus lane along that stretch when no buses whatsoever use it at present.
It's a different story Westbound - BE buses (City Centre-->Rahoon) use the full length of the Seamus Quirke/Bishop O'Donnell so at least there is some arguement for it.

galah

what would also make sense is a big park & ride car park say near Barna for traffic from the west, and then regular commuter busses to the big industrial estates from there (say to parkmore, Ballybrit, oranmore). I'd definitely use those if it meant I didnt have to sit in traffic forever each day...

but again, I doubt the council have thought about any further ways to improve traffic here...:(

biko

Jk, I just added date to title so people will know what thread is about

brianthebard

off road cycle lanes, boo.

what_traffic

brianthebard wrote: »

off road cycle lanes, boo.

Ya agree with ya but I say alot of experienced cyclists (especially anybody with road bike wheels) will ignore the off road cycle lanes and just use the empty 24/7 bus lane. There wont be a High frequency of buses on the SQR, probably more Taxis will use it than buses
Check this link out:
http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/

Sponge Bob

They will be some of the nicest cycle lanes in Ireland I must admit. Ye will have to cycle mobhanded in case the traffic cops harass ye.

brianthebard

what_traffic wrote: »

Ya agree with ya but I say alot of experienced cyclists (especially anybody with road bike wheels) will ignore the off road cycle lanes and just use the empty 24/7 bus lane. There wont be a High frequency of buses on the SQR, probably more Taxis will use it than buses
Check this link out:
http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/

That's what I would do all right, hadn't thought of the taxis though that will be a pain in the hole they are some of the worst offenders when it comes to skimming past cyclists, passing at inappropriate times, driving alongside my bicycle in the wrong lane attempting to pass out, etc. Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided but I doubt that will be enforced.

what_traffic

brianthebard wrote: »

That's what I would do all right, hadn't thought of the taxis though that will be a pain in the hole they are some of the worst offenders when it comes to skimming past cyclists, passing at inappropriate times, driving alongside my bicycle in the wrong lane attempting to pass out, etc. Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided but I doubt that will be enforced.

Thats true re "Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided" but it wont apply here on the SQR unless the NTA/Galway City Council bring in new Legislation
There does not exist a Bus Lane Sign(non contra flow) that permits the exclusion of cyclists.
So technically you will be able to cycle in the bus lane here.

Check out thread no #190 of the following boards thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055429177&page=13

I think the cycle paths will be more dangerous - because you have to avoid the Bus Shelters by going around the back of them and also you will be in more conflict with pedestrians. The council are only promoting/reinforcing the idea that cyclists should be up using footpaths to cycle on

Also there will be "on road" cycle lanes passing through the Glen Dara, Dunnes/Westside and Aldi traffic lights junctions - so if you use the cycle paths - it will be up down, up down scheme. 30m before you approach a junction they put you down on the road and then 10 after you passed through the junction its up on the path again.
Thing about SQR is that distances between these juntions is not great; I really dont know why they did not go with a simple solution of incorporating the cycle path width into the bus lane width, then taxis and buses would have no trouble overtaking ya if you where cycling in the Bus lane.

Mrs OBumble

galah wrote: »

what would also make sense is a big park & ride car park say near Barna for traffic from the west, and then regular commuter busses to the big industrial estates from there (say to parkmore, Ballybrit, oranmore). I'd definitely use those if it meant I didnt have to sit in traffic forever each day...

but again, I doubt the council have thought about any further ways to improve traffic here...:(

The council (well their consultants) have put a lot of work into suggesting public-transport options for improving traffic in the city (and beyond).

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/RoadsandTraffic/Publications/FileEnglish,3721,en.pdf

The challenge is implementing them, especially now that funds are a lot more restricted than anyone expected in 2007.

Malice

But the cross-town traffic has been terrible since before 2007. What was stopping plans being put in place and implemented in 1997 for example? When there are only two ways to get across the city - through the city centre itself and over the quincentennial bridge there are naturally going to be sections which can be improved, one of which being the Seamus Quirke road.

Someday I'd like to meet the clown that figured it was never going to cause a problem putting all the housing in Knocknacarra / Clybaun on one side of the river and the various industrial estates on the other without thinking of the effects of what might happen when people would be trying to get to and from work.

brianthebard

what_traffic wrote: »

Thats true re "Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided" but it wont apply here on the SQR unless the NTA/Galway City Council bring in new Legislation
There does not exist a Bus Lane Sign(non contra flow) that permits the exclusion of cyclists.
So technically you will be able to cycle in the bus lane here.

Check out thread no #190 of the following boards thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055429177&page=13

I think the cycle paths will be more dangerous - because you have to avoid the Bus Shelters by going around the back of them and also you will be in more conflict with pedestrians. The council are only promoting/reinforcing the idea that cyclists should be up using footpaths to cycle on

Also there will be "on road" cycle lanes passing through the Glen Dara, Dunnes/Westside and Aldi traffic lights junctions - so if you use the cycle paths - it will be up down, up down scheme. 30m before you approach a junction they put you down on the road and then 10 after you passed through the junction its up on the path again.
Thing about SQR is that distances between these juntions is not great; I really dont know why they did not go with a simple solution of incorporating the cycle path width into the bus lane width, then taxis and buses would have no trouble overtaking ya if you where cycling in the Bus lane.

Incorporating the bike lanes alongside the bus lanes makes too much sense for it to be implemented. Atm I don't have too much trouble cycling the SQR because the traffic tends to be slow and stops often. It could actually end up worse for cyclists if/when this plan goes through.

bat boy

AAGGGHHHHH!!!!! Why, when they're spending the money, time and effort to do this work, can they not do it properly. It makes no sense to have off road cycle lanes. Cyclists wont use them as they will effectively reduce them to pedestrian speed at every opening onto the main road, plus it will make it more dangerous for them as they will be going from path to road level at several points, at which there will be an increased risk of them being run over. Cyclists will definitely continue to use the road level as it is the fastest route. This will lead to buses using the bus lanes being reduced to cycling speed as the lane are only wide enough for buses alone, thus negating the benefit of dedicated bus lanes.

A wide bus/cycle lane is the only way to go. Its not like it'll cost any more money so I can't fathom why they aren't doing it.

It's the safest option for pedestrians, as cyclists wont be sharing the path level with them.

It's the safest option for cyclists as they wont be in danger of running over pedestrians, and they will have their own space on the road clear of the bus/taxi/car traffic, and they wont be slowed down at every intersection.

And it's the safest option for bus drivers/taxi drivers/car drivers, as they can be safe in the knowledge that cyclists have their own dedicated space, thus reducing the need for them to be ramping up and down off the pavement and onto the road in a way which makes them a danger to themselves and all other road users.

dloob

Sometimes I think they try to pick the option that makes the least sense.
No doubt there will be huge traffic disruption while they add these bus lanes for the one bus an hour.

snubbleste

Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?

what_traffic

snubbleste wrote: »

Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?

Galway Cycling Campaign have made numerous submissions on the SQR since 2002 and had meetings with Council Engineers. They where totally ignored. The Galway Community Forum also condemned the design:
http://www.galwaycycling.org/june-2010-community-forum-condemns-quirke-road-redesign-but-avoids-pulling-plug-on-areas-fund-bid/

Sponge Bob

snubbleste wrote: »

Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?

There was a full bord pleanala hearing on this in 2002 and many years after the bord pleanala hearing the council went and narrowed the combined bus/cycle lane to make it useless.

Galway Cyclists could take a judicial review of HOW a galway city functionary can unilaterally change a road design that was the subject of a Bord Pleanála report.

The order is HERE and the direction is HERE . There would also be an inspectors report somewhere, don't ask me where though.

In the Order , item 3 states

The design of the scheme shall be modified so that the cycle lanes shall be onroad where they pass through road junctions.
Reason: In the interest of the safety and convenience of cyclists.

That is a legal order by an Bord Pleanála and no functionary of the corpo should be allowed to mess with it. The inspectors report would show the recommendation on the width of the bus lane itself and if the inspector ordered a 4.2m buslane to share with cyclists then so be it.

But the cyclists cannot be sent around the houses at junctions unless a new Bord Pleanála hearing is held or order it be so.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is a legal order by an Bord Pleanála and no functionary of the corpo should be allowed to mess with it. The inspectors report would show the recommendation on the width of the bus lane itself and if the inspector ordered a 4.2m buslane to share with cyclists then so be it.

I could not find the reference to the inspector recommending a 4.2m buslane? Or is their a minimum standard bus lane width that Engineers must adopt for a "new" road scheme?

Sponge Bob

what_traffic wrote: »

I could not find the reference to the inspector recommending a 4.2m buslane? Or is their a minimum standard bus lane width that Engineers must adopt for a "new" road scheme?

If you contact the Bord P about the inspectors report they should email it to you. The ref number is in the order.

The key bit is that the cycle lane MUST be on the road through junctions even if the cycle lane is up on the path the rest of the way. The corpo must obey that edict.

The latest road design manual is here , I assume that any wiggle room the corpo may have is entirely dependent on this.

http://www.nra.ie/RepositoryforPublicationsInfo/file,16135,en.exe

As Irish standards are derived/reprinted from UK standards I would refer you to this synthesis of UK design standards ( not a manual )

http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/site/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/a10_bus_lanes_and_bus_stops.pdf

It 'prefers' 4.5m but states that anything under 4m is basically crap. As these are not new standards and have not changed since the hearing in 2002 you will need to get the inspectors report and consider a temporary injunction ( cost €1500) to get the corpo to cop themselves on.

Only the cyclists have an arguable case here, the motorist is irrelevant as I know only too well....and there are no buses to populate the 2 24 hour bus lanes

Mrs OBumble

Malice_ wrote: »

Someday I'd like to meet the clown that figured it was never going to cause a problem putting all the housing in Knocknacarra / Clybaun on one side of the river and the various industrial estates on the other without thinking of the effects of what might happen when people would be trying to get to and from work.

+100 to that.

(Though I don't know that I really want to meet him/her/them ... could be frightening so see just how stupid people can really be.)

what_traffic

FYI: If you want to review the design for SQR.
Notice the lack of ASL's on the main carraigeway and the "Hook Turn" boxes.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/220910_01.pdf

so they are going to spend how much and its going to make sweet damn all difference to 90% of the people who travel on that road based on that drawing

</frustration>

DanielI

Deleted User wrote: »

so they are going to spend how much and its going to make sweet damn all difference to 90% of the people who travel on that road based on that drawing

</frustration>

EUR 10 mil. according to officials: http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/230910_01.pdf

I doubt it will help anybody: If you carefully look on the layout, you will notice that traffic lights will be introduced at every junction.

We need the bypass: all of it, from Barna to M6.

galah

will these lights at least be 'smart'? Timed properly according to traffic flow and linked up to ALL the lights around there (such as Taylor's Hill junction etc)?

I can't see how this scheme will improve the traffic at all at all - there's hardly any busses going along that route, and the people who need to use Westside usually come from further out West, where there's no public transport anyway...

+1 for the bypass from Barna to M6, and another bridge - money much better spent, methinks.

Malice

galah wrote: »

will these lights at least be 'smart'? Timed properly according to traffic flow and linked up to ALL the lights around there (such as Taylor's Hill junction etc)?

Smart like the lights at The Huntsman? How is that junction these days as a matter of interest? When I'm in Galway I avoid there like the plague.

magentas

Had to laugh when I saw signs "major roadworks ahead, expect delays, OCT 2010 - OCT 2011!:rolleyes:

schween

Malice_ wrote: »

Smart like the lights at The Huntsman? How is that junction these days as a matter of interest? When I'm in Galway I avoid there like the plague.

I avoid the Dublin Road like the plague everyday!

Between Doughiska and the Huntsman there are 8 sets of traffic lights between junctions and crossings. Add a few more if you go into town or anywhere else.

I hope they don't do the same to the Seamus Quirke Rd.

Malice

schween wrote: »

I avoid the Dublin Road like the plague everyday!

Between Doughiska and the Huntsman there are 8 sets of traffic lights between junctions and crossings.

Seriously? They must have added a few more since I was last driving in the area. I'd say the extra lights really help keeping traffic moving at peak times, just like the lights at the courthouse .

Mrs OBumble

Moneenageshia
Duggans
Bon Secours / Michael Collins Rd
Kingsvalley
Doughiska Rd
crossing on Doughiska Rd
another crossing on Doughiska Rd

... hmm, must have forgotten one.

Anyways, they certainly make life easier for pedestrians.

And as a pedestrian who occasionally catches a bus to Westside library and so has to cross SQR, I'm very keen for some more controlled crossings.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

Moneenageshia


Anyways, they certainly make life easier for pedestrians.

And as a pedestrian who occasionally catches a bus to Westside library and so has to cross SQR, I'm very keen for some more controlled crossings.

I believe I saw on one of the older plans that a pedestrian overpass near Westside library is being built. At least there is one lights there. Once you get past Westside pitch lights, it is nigh on impossible to cross the road anywhere before the next roundabout. Crossing at bottom of Rahoon Rd is a nightmare!

snubbleste

JustMary wrote: »

Moneenageshia
Duggans
Bon Secours / Michael Collins Rd
Kingsvalley
Doughiska Rd
crossing on Doughiska Rd
another crossing on Doughiska Rd ... hmm, must have forgotten one.
Anyways, they certainly make life easier for pedestrians.
And as a pedestrian who occasionally catches a bus to Westside library and so has to cross SQR, I'm very keen for some more controlled crossings.

There are pedestrian-activated lights adjacent to renmore road crossing to Wellpark...and another at Gmit - Dawn Dairies

People have died crossing on the Seamus Quirke Road in the past - it is a heavily populated area with constant pedestrian presence. If traffic was not crawling there on a daily basis, I'm sure there would be more collisions. Not everything has to be motorist-centric.

KevR

JustMary wrote: »

And as a pedestrian who occasionally catches a bus to Westside library and so has to cross SQR, I'm very keen for some more controlled crossings.

The original plans for the SQR upgrade included a pedestrian bridge around the Church/Library/Aldi area. It's a shame the bridge has been scrapped - it would have been safer than pedestrians crossing an extrememly busy 4 lane road at road level.

DanielI

snubbleste wrote: »

There are pedestrian-activated lights adjacent to renmore road crossing to Wellpark...and another at Gmit - Dawn Dairies

People have died crossing on the Seamus Quirke Road in the past - it is a heavily populated area with constant pedestrian presence. If traffic was not crawling there on a daily basis, I'm sure there would be more collisions. Not everything has to be motorist-centric.

I agree. Build a bypass and take the traffic out of the city.

Two issues with the pedestrian activated lights:
1. They are usually installed where people do not find them convenient, so they do not get used; the council should really ask the people where to put these.
2. Where they are used people press the button, but do not wait for the green (even when they have kids with them, thus teaching them that is OK to cross on red)

Point 1 above reminds me on how the Japanese make alleys in a park: they open the park to the public, then after one month they lay asphalt on the newly formed paths on the grass.

inisboffin

KevR wrote: »

The original plans for the SQR upgrade included a pedestrian bridge around the Church/Library/Aldi area. It's a shame the bridge has been scrapped - it would have been safer than pedestrians crossing an extrememly busy 4 lane road at road level.

They scrapped it? Sorry missed that. Anyone have a link to the updated plans (what is going where etc) as the PDF I saw must be the older version. Thanks.

DanielI

inisboffin wrote: »

They scrapped it? Sorry missed that. Anyone have a link to the updated plans (what is going where etc) as the PDF I saw must be the older version. Thanks.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/220910_01.pdf

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

There are pedestrian-activated lights adjacent to renmore road crossing to Wellpark...and another at Gmit - Dawn Dairies

And I realised later another set at the Oranmore Coast Rd turn too.

1 Moneenageshia
2 Wellpark
3 Duggans
4 Bon Secours / Michael Collins Rd
5 Dawn Dairies
6 Kingsvalley
7 Oranmore Coast Rd
8 Doughiska Rd

Yup, that's eight alright!

inisboffin

DanielI wrote: »

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/220910_01.pdf

Thanks for that. I did see it earlier in the thread, but the 'older' plans to which I was referring were about 20 pages long with detailed specific areas (ie how much of pitch is to be taken etc). They were the ones that talked about the overpass, the detail of the roundabout at the top of the Shantalla/Rahoon Rd, the amount of trees being felled, the replacement tree and wall plans etc. When I open the link above I only get a one pager with no key - am I not seeing the full thing on this computer?

DanielI

You see it all. It's just one long page.

Sherifu

skelliser wrote: »

10 million and one year to build two bus lanes!!
****ing joke shop!

I didn't think they could top the messing they did with Eyre Square.

I was wrong.

Sponge Bob

Sherifu wrote: »

I didn't think they could top the messing they did with Eyre Square. I was wrong.

They are digging up Claregalway starting next week too. Imagine a Corofin-Barna commute :eek:

galah

unless you own a house in either location, move...

Nightmare...

and every year the same question - why can't they start this stuff during the summer holidays, when there's relatively little traffic? I sincerely hope the Seamus Quirke overhaul will somehow take rush hours into consideration...(but I know they won't...;-()

They can't even manage to put up the warning signs correctly so that people can actually read them (the one going up towards the taylor's Hill junction was hidden behind a tree until someone copped and moved it, and the one on the bridge is sitting in the bushes, too.).

Aerohead

Wonder how this work will interfere with the likes of Arch Motors, Aldi, The Westside Shopping Centre and the units across the road, surely they will have to give priority access to these companies so the can operate with out a loss of business.