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Seamus Quirke roadworks merge

  • 13-09-2010 5:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭ jkforde


    In case people don't know...

    Monday September 27, 2010 signals the commencement of the long awaited improvement works for the Bishop O' Donnell / Seamus Quirke Road. The expected completion date for the scheme is October 2011.

    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/090910_03.html


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,352 plonk


    Thank **** Im moving into town at the end of the month. This is well needed, but I would love to know how the Kingston and taylors hill junction will handle the greater level of traffic


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭ ?Cee?view


    Don't know what you're saying thank fu(k for?*

    This will only make things worse.

    We now have a road with one traffic lane in each direction and after October 2011 (yeah right!) we'll have........................




    A road with one traffic lane in each direction.



    The Greens, Labour and ex Labour people who had this "modified" should be buried under this when it's finished :mad:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Robbo


    24 hour buslanes when we don't have 24 hour buses? Marvellous. If they'd done them as 8 am-8 pm buslanes, the buses would gain their advantage at peak times and outside of them, the second lane in each direction would ease congestion. That, however would be too sensible a solution...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭ galah


    and still no proper bus service for people living on the outskirts of town...gggaaaah.

    not looking forward to this one...(they should really have a combined bus lane/"cars with more than 3 passengers" lane, to promote car pooling, for example, if they can't provide proper public transport...).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,985 skelliser


    10 million and one year to build two bus lanes!!
    ****ing joke shop!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭ Malice


    For God's sake, one of the busiest routes in the city and the solution from the powers that be is to put in not one but two bus lanes? Brilliant! :mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    and they will reduce the width of the existing single lanes.

    I would welcome our green and labour overlords were they buried under the shaggin thing :( Anytime during the 14 months it will take them to build 1 mile of road would be fine as long as I get the chance to pour some concrete :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭ Malice


    I commuted from Barna to Parkmore and then to Oranmore for about four years and it was only after I had to move down south last year that I appreciated just how horrendous the evening traffic can be. I suppose my employers didn't mind that I'd willingly stay in the office until 7pm just to try to cut down the amount of time spent crawling across the city but it really wrecks your quality of life.
    One of the major bottlenecks as you all know is the Seamus Quirke road and yet, rather than try to solve the problem properly, a half-assed solution is thrown together. I wonder is Barna going to get a proper bus service that suits commuters so that they can travel on the new shiny bus lanes (in both directions :p)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,857 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    In fairness, unless they put the bus lanes in there would be little point in improving the bus services. (Except for Barna - the service from there is truly pathetic, given that it's really just a suburb on the edge of the city).

    But bus lanes plus and improved service would be a fantastic incentive to leave the car at home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    I might eventually reluctantly support the bus lanes if there is a drastic improvement to bus services and if there is a drastic uptake of the improved services (improved services will be a huge waste if the buses are running nearly empty of passengers as they often are at present).

    But I don't know of any plans at present to improve the bus services once the bus lanes open. There should be a plan in place right now and it should be publicised. If there is no plan then the road should be upgraded 2+2 all purpose. Let's not forget that a 2+2 all purpose would improve bus journey times and reliability; it wouldn't just improve things for private cars.

    It's important to point out that no city bus services use the Seamus Quirke/Bishop O'Donnell along this stretch. BE's Rahoon-->City Centre buses turn left and go along Circular and the Siobhan McKenna roads. City Direct buses turn right a few metres further on and use the Rahoon/Shantalla Road. I will actually explode if they make that stretch a bus lane and don't immediately start running buses on it. There is zero justification for having an Eastbound bus lane along that stretch when no buses whatsoever use it at present.
    It's a different story Westbound - BE buses (City Centre-->Rahoon) use the full length of the Seamus Quirke/Bishop O'Donnell so at least there is some arguement for it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭ galah


    what would also make sense is a big park & ride car park say near Barna for traffic from the west, and then regular commuter busses to the big industrial estates from there (say to parkmore, Ballybrit, oranmore). I'd definitely use those if it meant I didnt have to sit in traffic forever each day...

    but again, I doubt the council have thought about any further ways to improve traffic here...:(


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Jk, I just added date to title so people will know what thread is about


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,170 ✭✭✭✭ brianthebard


    off road cycle lanes, boo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    off road cycle lanes, boo.

    Ya agree with ya but I say alot of experienced cyclists (especially anybody with road bike wheels) will ignore the off road cycle lanes and just use the empty 24/7 bus lane. There wont be a High frequency of buses on the SQR, probably more Taxis will use it than buses
    Check this link out:
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    They will be some of the nicest cycle lanes in Ireland I must admit. Ye will have to cycle mobhanded in case the traffic cops harass ye.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,170 ✭✭✭✭ brianthebard


    Ya agree with ya but I say alot of experienced cyclists (especially anybody with road bike wheels) will ignore the off road cycle lanes and just use the empty 24/7 bus lane. There wont be a High frequency of buses on the SQR, probably more Taxis will use it than buses
    Check this link out:
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/

    That's what I would do all right, hadn't thought of the taxis though that will be a pain in the hole they are some of the worst offenders when it comes to skimming past cyclists, passing at inappropriate times, driving alongside my bicycle in the wrong lane attempting to pass out, etc. Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided but I doubt that will be enforced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    That's what I would do all right, hadn't thought of the taxis though that will be a pain in the hole they are some of the worst offenders when it comes to skimming past cyclists, passing at inappropriate times, driving alongside my bicycle in the wrong lane attempting to pass out, etc. Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided but I doubt that will be enforced.

    Thats true re "Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided" but it wont apply here on the SQR unless the NTA/Galway City Council bring in new Legislation
    There does not exist a Bus Lane Sign(non contra flow) that permits the exclusion of cyclists.
    So technically you will be able to cycle in the bus lane here.

    Check out thread no #190 of the following boards thread
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055429177&page=13

    I think the cycle paths will be more dangerous - because you have to avoid the Bus Shelters by going around the back of them and also you will be in more conflict with pedestrians. The council are only promoting/reinforcing the idea that cyclists should be up using footpaths to cycle on

    Also there will be "on road" cycle lanes passing through the Glen Dara, Dunnes/Westside and Aldi traffic lights junctions - so if you use the cycle paths - it will be up down, up down scheme. 30m before you approach a junction they put you down on the road and then 10 after you passed through the junction its up on the path again.
    Thing about SQR is that distances between these juntions is not great; I really dont know why they did not go with a simple solution of incorporating the cycle path width into the bus lane width, then taxis and buses would have no trouble overtaking ya if you where cycling in the Bus lane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,857 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    galah wrote: »
    what would also make sense is a big park & ride car park say near Barna for traffic from the west, and then regular commuter busses to the big industrial estates from there (say to parkmore, Ballybrit, oranmore). I'd definitely use those if it meant I didnt have to sit in traffic forever each day...

    but again, I doubt the council have thought about any further ways to improve traffic here...:(

    The council (well their consultants) have put a lot of work into suggesting public-transport options for improving traffic in the city (and beyond).

    http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/RoadsandTraffic/Publications/FileEnglish,3721,en.pdf

    The challenge is implementing them, especially now that funds are a lot more restricted than anyone expected in 2007.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭ Malice


    But the cross-town traffic has been terrible since before 2007. What was stopping plans being put in place and implemented in 1997 for example? When there are only two ways to get across the city - through the city centre itself and over the quincentennial bridge there are naturally going to be sections which can be improved, one of which being the Seamus Quirke road.

    Someday I'd like to meet the clown that figured it was never going to cause a problem putting all the housing in Knocknacarra / Clybaun on one side of the river and the various industrial estates on the other without thinking of the effects of what might happen when people would be trying to get to and from work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,170 ✭✭✭✭ brianthebard


    Thats true re "Technically you are legally supposed to use a cycle lane if one is provided" but it wont apply here on the SQR unless the NTA/Galway City Council bring in new Legislation
    There does not exist a Bus Lane Sign(non contra flow) that permits the exclusion of cyclists.
    So technically you will be able to cycle in the bus lane here.

    Check out thread no #190 of the following boards thread
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055429177&page=13

    I think the cycle paths will be more dangerous - because you have to avoid the Bus Shelters by going around the back of them and also you will be in more conflict with pedestrians. The council are only promoting/reinforcing the idea that cyclists should be up using footpaths to cycle on

    Also there will be "on road" cycle lanes passing through the Glen Dara, Dunnes/Westside and Aldi traffic lights junctions - so if you use the cycle paths - it will be up down, up down scheme. 30m before you approach a junction they put you down on the road and then 10 after you passed through the junction its up on the path again.
    Thing about SQR is that distances between these juntions is not great; I really dont know why they did not go with a simple solution of incorporating the cycle path width into the bus lane width, then taxis and buses would have no trouble overtaking ya if you where cycling in the Bus lane.

    Incorporating the bike lanes alongside the bus lanes makes too much sense for it to be implemented. Atm I don't have too much trouble cycling the SQR because the traffic tends to be slow and stops often. It could actually end up worse for cyclists if/when this plan goes through.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭ bat boy


    AAGGGHHHHH!!!!! Why, when they're spending the money, time and effort to do this work, can they not do it properly. It makes no sense to have off road cycle lanes. Cyclists wont use them as they will effectively reduce them to pedestrian speed at every opening onto the main road, plus it will make it more dangerous for them as they will be going from path to road level at several points, at which there will be an increased risk of them being run over. Cyclists will definitely continue to use the road level as it is the fastest route. This will lead to buses using the bus lanes being reduced to cycling speed as the lane are only wide enough for buses alone, thus negating the benefit of dedicated bus lanes.

    A wide bus/cycle lane is the only way to go. Its not like it'll cost any more money so I can't fathom why they aren't doing it.

    It's the safest option for pedestrians, as cyclists wont be sharing the path level with them.

    It's the safest option for cyclists as they wont be in danger of running over pedestrians, and they will have their own space on the road clear of the bus/taxi/car traffic, and they wont be slowed down at every intersection.

    And it's the safest option for bus drivers/taxi drivers/car drivers, as they can be safe in the knowledge that cyclists have their own dedicated space, thus reducing the need for them to be ramping up and down off the pavement and onto the road in a way which makes them a danger to themselves and all other road users.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ dloob


    Sometimes I think they try to pick the option that makes the least sense.
    No doubt there will be huge traffic disruption while they add these bus lanes for the one bus an hour.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ snubbleste


    Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?

    Galway Cycling Campaign have made numerous submissions on the SQR since 2002 and had meetings with Council Engineers. They where totally ignored. The Galway Community Forum also condemned the design:
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/june-2010-community-forum-condemns-quirke-road-redesign-but-avoids-pulling-plug-on-areas-fund-bid/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Where were all you people when the Council wanted members of the public for input into their upgrade of the road? Did anyone actually make a submission?

    There was a full bord pleanala hearing on this in 2002 and many years after the bord pleanala hearing the council went and narrowed the combined bus/cycle lane to make it useless.

    Galway Cyclists could take a judicial review of HOW a galway city functionary can unilaterally change a road design that was the subject of a Bord Pleanála report.

    The order is HERE and the direction is HERE . There would also be an inspectors report somewhere, don't ask me where though.

    In the Order , item 3 states
    The design of the scheme shall be modified so that the cycle lanes shall be onroad where they pass through road junctions.
    Reason: In the interest of the safety and convenience of cyclists.

    That is a legal order by an Bord Pleanála and no functionary of the corpo should be allowed to mess with it. The inspectors report would show the recommendation on the width of the bus lane itself and if the inspector ordered a 4.2m buslane to share with cyclists then so be it.

    But the cyclists cannot be sent around the houses at junctions unless a new Bord Pleanála hearing is held or order it be so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    That is a legal order by an Bord Pleanála and no functionary of the corpo should be allowed to mess with it. The inspectors report would show the recommendation on the width of the bus lane itself and if the inspector ordered a 4.2m buslane to share with cyclists then so be it.

    I could not find the reference to the inspector recommending a 4.2m buslane? Or is their a minimum standard bus lane width that Engineers must adopt for a "new" road scheme?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    I could not find the reference to the inspector recommending a 4.2m buslane? Or is their a minimum standard bus lane width that Engineers must adopt for a "new" road scheme?

    If you contact the Bord P about the inspectors report they should email it to you. The ref number is in the order.

    The key bit is that the cycle lane MUST be on the road through junctions even if the cycle lane is up on the path the rest of the way. The corpo must obey that edict.

    The latest road design manual is here , I assume that any wiggle room the corpo may have is entirely dependent on this.

    http://www.nra.ie/RepositoryforPublicationsInfo/file,16135,en.exe

    As Irish standards are derived/reprinted from UK standards I would refer you to this synthesis of UK design standards ( not a manual )

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/site/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/a10_bus_lanes_and_bus_stops.pdf

    It 'prefers' 4.5m but states that anything under 4m is basically crap. As these are not new standards and have not changed since the hearing in 2002 you will need to get the inspectors report and consider a temporary injunction ( cost €1500) to get the corpo to cop themselves on.

    Only the cyclists have an arguable case here, the motorist is irrelevant as I know only too well....and there are no buses to populate the 2 24 hour bus lanes :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,857 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    Malice_ wrote: »
    Someday I'd like to meet the clown that figured it was never going to cause a problem putting all the housing in Knocknacarra / Clybaun on one side of the river and the various industrial estates on the other without thinking of the effects of what might happen when people would be trying to get to and from work.

    +100 to that.

    (Though I don't know that I really want to meet him/her/them ... could be frightening so see just how stupid people can really be.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    FYI: If you want to review the design for SQR.
    Notice the lack of ASL's on the main carraigeway and the "Hook Turn" boxes.

    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/220910_01.pdf


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    so they are going to spend how much and its going to make sweet damn all difference to 90% of the people who travel on that road based on that drawing

    </frustration>


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