Seamus Quirke roadworks merge

Sponge Bob

snubbleste wrote: »

AAroadwatch referring to Seamus Quirke Road as Bishop O'Donnell Road. Also broadcast to the nation that the works will finish in December.

Only if all the services are under the carriageway they are working on for nearly a year now. Means digging up the old road will be easy.

A 2011 finish looks absolutely impossible to me . They will have no new road open for the races...meaning early august after the holidays. None.

galwaycyclist

Robbo wrote: »

For the record, I have been stopped there by the lollipop man when the lights were green, and at the crossing/lights at the Pres primary. It doesn't bother me in any way but it does seem particularly redundant at these places where light controlled crossings have been put in.

Hmm I got beeped at by an irate motorist recently because I had stopped at a red light at the pedestrian crossing at Aldi - the light would have been green for the pedestrians. I got off my bicycle to clarify his position regarding red lights and he told me the lights were "wrong" and I should keep going.

If I had kids walking to school I would not be inclined to assume the "green man" is any protection. Bearing in mind also that Ireland historically had the highest child pedestrian death rate in Western Europe.

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hmm I got beeped at by an irate motorist recently because I had stopped at a red light at the pedestrian crossing at Aldi - the light would have been green for the pedestrians. I got off my bicycle to clarify his position regarding red lights and he told me the lights were "wrong" and I should keep going.

If I had kids walking to school I would not be inclined to assume the "green man" is any protection. Bearing in mind also that Ireland historically had the highest child pedestrian death rate in Western Europe.

Have you considered working for the diplomatic corps or the UN?




.

snubbleste

So for all those complaining about the bus lane and cycle lane..now is your chance to air your gripes about part of it.

Plans are available to view at City Hall until 22 August
Submissions and observations to be made by 5 September.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/060711_02.html

inisboffin

snubbleste wrote: »

So for all those complaining about the bus lane and cycle lane..now is your chance to air your gripes about part of it.

Plans are available to view at City Hall until 22 August
Submissions and observations to be made by 5 September.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/060711_02.html

This is for a whole different bus lane/cycle lane up the 'top' Rahoon Road, not on the main road. I'd say there is going to be war on this one. The bus lane is only to be used by City Direct buses, the Bus Eireann can't stop at their stops! Also, according to the first plans I had a look at, they'll either have to take a chunk out of the back gardens of Cruachan Park or a chunk out of Rockfield. I know someone who the latter would effect, and they are already having structural damage as their house is up near the graveyard and the road is way busier up there. If they widen it, their bedroom would basically be on a bus!

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

So for all those complaining about the bus lane and cycle lane..now is your chance to air your gripes about part of it.

Plans are available to view at City Hall until 22 August
Submissions and observations to be made by 5 September.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/060711_02.html

I think this is the road/link in question.

In general, what is the value of a bus route where buses just get caught up in general traffic? IIRC this stretch of road is routinely jammed with cars of a morning. A bus lane would give buses an advantage, which in general is a reasonable aim IMO.

inisboffin

Iwannahurl wrote: »

snubbleste wrote: »

So for all those complaining about the bus lane and cycle lane..now is your chance to air your gripes about part of it.

Plans are available to view at City Hall until 22 August
Submissions and observations to be made by 5 September.
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/060711_02.html

I think this is the road/link in question.

In general, what is the value of a bus route where buses just get caught up in general traffic? IIRC this stretch of road is routinely jammed with cars of a morning. A bus lane would give buses an advantage, which in general is a reasonable aim IMO.

It's essentially from by the graveyard to the junction at Hanley Oaks. It is only for use (at the moment) for City Direct stops, not Bus Éireann. I'm not against bus lanes at all but the plans for this small section will be incredibly intrusive to local houses. Traffic is bad there at the moment, particularly due to the diversions. The main junction is littered with crash debris from a lot of recent accidents too.

Storm 10

The roadworks wont be finished until December according to todays Sentinal, not a hope, some time in 2012 the way its going. its gone very slow lately.

soundbyte

Storm 10 wrote: »

The roadworks wont be finished until December according to todays Sentinal, not a hope, some time in 2012 the way its going. its gone very slow lately.

Ya, they said the completion date was *always* going to be December. That's a lie, it was October.

Interestingly, they have no late penalty clause for the contractor and there is no actual 'finish by date'???

And this after they only had a verbal agreement with the guys who own the land at Dunarus?

Another Eyre Square debacle on the horizon anyone??

Chicken1

Yesterday I passed by the roadworks and I counted 8 people that I could see working from the Corrib Park roundabout to the top of Taylors hill, this morning I counted 4 from Dunnes stores to the Corrib Park roundabout, surely a major job like this should be crawling with workers if its to be finished on time. There is no way this roadworks will be completed by December. wont they have to spend the same length of time on the opposite side. The most that I have seen there are the guys building the beautiful wall, I counted 8 working on it. Anyone any thoughts on this and when its likely to finish.

Sponge Bob

October........................................2012

Storm 10

There is no way it will be finished on time, it has got very slow in the last while, I even thought that when I was passing yesterday there was very few workers around the place.

Malice

Remember that there's no penalty to be imposed if (when) the deadline is missed so there's no incentive for anyone to be working hard on the roadworks.

Storm 10

Malice wrote: »

Remember that there's no penalty to be imposed if (when) the deadline is missed so there's no incentive for anyone to be working hard on the roadworks.

I could not understand how a major road upgrade that causes so much disruption to residents and business in the area had no time penalty built into the contract. You would think that whoever signed the contract would have looked at it.

KevR

The opposite side won't take as long but progress is still painfully slow of late.

soundbyte

Storm 10 wrote: »

I could not understand how a major road upgrade that causes so much disruption to residents and business in the area had no time penalty built into the contract. You would think that whoever signed the contract would have looked at it.

The same person who also entered only a verbal agreement to encroach on land at Dunarus and ended up costing the Council an extra 70k plus legal fees.

The same person who failed to notice that the new wall by Corrib Park was 10ft out.

I would say it beggars belief, but it's the City Council.

Storm 10

soundbyte wrote: »

The same person who also entered only a verbal agreement to encroach on land at Dunarus and ended up costing the Council an extra 70k plus legal fees.

The same person who failed to notice that the new wall by Corrib Park was 10ft out.

I would say it beggars belief, but it's the City Council.

Hi soundbyte which way is it out, is it to far out on the road or where is the problem

soundbyte

Storm 10 wrote: »

Hi soundbyte which way is it out, is it to far out on the road or where is the problem

The Council used an OS map when planning the wall. When they came around to building it, they realised they'd have to chop 50 trees down because the wall was too far back (by 10ft) from the existing road.

What sort of engineer uses an OS map to plan a road in precise detail?

http://www.galwaynews.ie/19425-corrib-park-residents-fight-stop-tree-cutting

Kate10

soundbyte wrote: »

Interestingly, they have no late penalty clause for the contractor and there is no actual 'finish by date'???

Where do you get this stuff from? Do you know anything at all about construction contracts?

TristanPeter

soundbyte wrote: »

Ya, they said the completion date was *always* going to be December. That's a lie, it was October.

Interestingly, they have no late penalty clause for the contractor and there is no actual 'finish by date'???

It will be nice to have the road works finished. I'm really sick of being stuck in traffic at this stage. The cycle lanes will be a nice addition too but as for helping traffic flow in general, I really don't see how it will improve anything. The bus lanes finish at the Corrib Park roundabout, so then what? Am I missing something here but basically all these roadworks will do is allow buses to move more quickly from one end of Seamus Quirke Road to the other...where they will have to merge back into single traffic lanes (going into the city centre) i.e. the same old bottle-necks and jams. Either way I hope they finish by December at the latest.

Malice

Kate10 wrote: »

Where do you get this stuff from?

The lack of a late penalty clause was reported in one of the Galway papers this week.

galwaycyclist

inisboffin wrote: »

It's essentially from by the graveyard to the junction at Hanley Oaks. It is only for use (at the moment) for City Direct stops, not Bus Éireann.

Uh no actually the "bus" lane will be used by cyclists* as well and (unfortunately? :rolleyes: ) taxis.

* As will the "bus" lanes on the Seamus Quirke road.

Kate10

Malice wrote: »

The lack of a late penalty clause was reported in one of the Galway papers this week.

That's not a good enough excuse to believe this stuff, IMO! Come on guys, since when do we believe everything we read in the papers? Lazy lazy journalism.

Construction contracts for large road projects are standardised documents imposed by the Department of Finance. In other words all the contracts signed with contractors are the same - they vary slightly within limited available parameters.

The contracts are in fact quite draconian - very much in favour of the employer. Of course the contract contains a completion date, and there are penalties for going beyond the date. However there are also circumstances in which those dates can be extended - e.g. extreme weather conditions, changes in instructions (ie the contract is to build a particular road, half way through the employer decides that they would like other additional work done), unforeseen ground conditions (e.g. finding high voltage cables underground, nowhere near where they are supposed to be) etc etc.

So it appears that on these roadworks, one or more of these events took place.

If I was a journalist I would get up off my *ss and find out some very basic information before printing this stuff.

Head The Wall

What about the contracts the govt signed with the toll road builders stating that we the taxpayers would stump up if a certain number of vehicles a day didn't pass through the tolls. They effectively get all the gains while we get the pain.

It's a bit naive of you to assume that it's wrong, this is the irish govt we are talking about. Are you Irish?

Kate10

Head The Wall wrote: »

What about the contracts the govt signed with the toll road builders stating that we the taxpayers would stump up if a certain number of vehicles a day didn't pass through the tolls. They effectively get all the gains while we get the pain.

It's a bit naive of you to assume that it's wrong, this is the irish govt we are talking about. Are you Irish?

Yes am Irish. And am all too familiar with the Irish govt (and local govt in particular).

But if we're going to discuss something lets at least try to discuss the facts rather than randomly give out about things with no attempt to ascertain what is true. That might allow us to focus our energies on the things that are really wrong.

By the way, re the toll roads, there are lots of different agreements and the compensation methodology differs from contract to contract. Some are good, some are bad. However mechanisms that provide for compensation of the private investor where road usage is not what was predicted are used all over the world.

Sponge Bob

I was on the SQR earlier and counted 5 workmen (2 in machines) operating between the old Rahoon flats and Corrib Park. Compared to the numbers there in the spring it looks like the builders holiday......except the builders holiday is a week away.

The contractor is probably haggling for more €€€s / overrun costs because the land acquisition was not sorted at Dúnarus and the tree problem at Corrib Park prevents them building a wall there.

But of more concern is that they are nowhere near ready to lay CBM ( concrete road foundation ) even between Rahoon and Corrib Park.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The contractor is probably haggling for more €€€s / overrun costs because the [...] the tree problem at Corrib Park prevents them building a wall there.

This last has me puzzled as, to my knowledge, the drawings for Corrib park said something like "tie in with existing road alignment". So there should have been no change at this location. Unless somebody started at the wrong place further up the road?

Kate10

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The contractor is probably haggling for more €€€s / overrun costs because the land acquisition was not sorted at Dúnarus and the tree problem at Corrib Park prevents them building a wall there.

Why do you assume this? Wouldn't it would be more logical to consider that as today is Friday, and builders holidays start on Monday, there may be very little work that the contractor can safely or properly do?

Also you should know that the forms of contract currently in use are fixed price lump sum contracts. Given that contractors are tendering for contracts at or below cost price in order to win the work in a fiercely competitive market, the only way for the contractor to increase profit on a contract is to reduce the labour or materials quoted for. It can't reduce materials so getting the job done faster than expected is the only way the contractor can increase its profit.

Sponge Bob

Kate10 wrote: »

Wouldn't it would be more logical to consider that as today is Friday, and builders holidays start on Monday, there may be very little work that the contractor can safely or properly do?

It might, except that the builders holiday starts monday week. :cool:

mikehunts

With the amount of builders not working i thought that was done away with.

inisboffin

galwaycyclist wrote: »

inisboffin wrote: »

It's essentially from by the graveyard to the junction at Hanley Oaks. It is only for use (at the moment) for City Direct stops, not Bus Éireann.

Uh no actually the "bus" lane will be used by cyclists* as well and (unfortunately? :rolleyes: ) taxis.

* As will the "bus" lanes on the Seamus Quirke road.

afaik the plans had a bus lane like I mentioned above AND a cycle lane

Kate10

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It might, except that the builders holiday starts monday week. :cool:

Nope. It's Monday. Check the CIF website!


[QUOTE= With the amount of builders not working i thought that was done away with.[/QUOTE]

Is this a joke? Are you seriously suggesting that the few construction workers left working on butchered salaries should also lose their entitlement to annual leave? Actually ...no ..you're right ...lets bring chain gangs back! Whips would get that road built in no time!

emptybladder

Always thought Galway had different builders hols because of the Races?

snubbleste

They took Easter week off and some weeks when we had a cold spell in December/January.

Kate10

Jeeeeeesuuuuuusss!!! Those cheeky b*st*rds!!! Christmas too!!!! Do they work at all?

Kate10

On a serious note, CIF holidays appear to be the statutory minimum of 20 days, plus public holidays. You can check it out on the website.

Head The Wall

Kate10 wrote: »

Nope. It's Monday. Check the CIF website!




Is this a joke? Are you seriously suggesting that the few construction workers left working on butchered salaries should also lose their entitlement to annual leave? Actually ...no ..you're right ...lets bring chain gangs back! Whips would get that road built in no time!

Builders holidays in Galway start the Friday before Race week.

Sponge Bob wasn't saying that they had no holidays, what he meant was that all sites do not close for the two weeks like before and that some builders stagger their holidays now

galwaycyclist

inisboffin wrote: »

afaik the plans had a bus lane like I mentioned above AND a cycle lane

Yep in the notice it says an inbound bus lane and an outbound cycle lane. Suggesting that cyclists are design users of the inbound bus lane.

inisboffin

galwaycyclist wrote: »

inisboffin wrote: »

afaik the plans had a bus lane like I mentioned above AND a cycle lane

Yep in the notice it says an inbound bus lane and an outbound cycle lane. Suggesting that cyclists are design users of the inbound bus lane.

I couldn't quite figure out the plans I saw, but it did look like a small cycle path on both sides. I'll see if I can find a link to it. So essentially there will just be bus relief in one direction? Anyway my point was not re taxis and bikes, which can always use bus lanes, but rather that it can't currently be used by Bus Eireann, and is greatly going to impact some houses on that small stretch. It seems like a ton of hassle for a tiny bit of road tbh.

galwaycyclist

inisboffin wrote: »

I couldn't quite figure out the plans I saw, but it did look like a small cycle path on both sides.

Ok if thats the plan then alarm bells should start going off. That is a steep enough hill that includes a pedestrian access to Rockfield Park and a bus stop. The last thing anyone needs is downhill cyclists barrelling through waiting bus passengers on a narrow cycle path.

If that is the design, then I am afraid we would be looking at yet another example of apparent city council roads department incompetence.

Sponge Bob

I got a PM to say that Coffey do not take the Galway builders holiday for 'co - ordination' reasons but the CIF one.

So they went on holiday last friday and will be back on the first tuesday in August said my correspondent.

Gal44

The road works on the Seamus Quirke Rd and Bishop O'Donnell Rd (R338)where do the road works start and finish? Thanks

biko

They go from Rahoon Road to the roundabout at the hospital.

inisboffin

biko wrote: »

They go from Rahoon Road to the roundabout at the hospital.

Bit further no? From the Browne to the Dean Roundabouts? Past junction for Rahoon Road another bit.

biko

Yeah true from RB to RB.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

IIRC the buslane was supposed to be shared with cyclists and was 4.2m but this was changed to 3.5m with cyclists sent up to a pavement cycle lane...this was a design change after the Bord Pleanála decision from what I remember. There will be shag all buses so that meant a 4.2m cycle lane...much of the time.

Traffic lights were mandated by an Bord Pleanála instead of roundabouts.

Ok this is the situation. Bord Pleanala specified that the submitted road design was to modified so that the proposed roundabouts be replaced with traffic signals and the proposed cycle facilities be "on road" at the junctions. The cycle "facilities" were originally to have been the footpath type as per Doughiska road etc.

In 2004, the elected city council voted to make the outer lanes bus lanes and make this an objective of the city development plan.

Cyclists are default users of bus lanes - they are also a type of cycle facility - so the presence of bus lanes imposes the assumption that cyclists will be using them. As has been shown in Dublin, this will happen even if there are footpath type cycle tracks beside the bus lane. (Reason being the bus lanes are faster and safer for the cyclists than typical Irish cycle tracks)

So if you want to provide for this in a manner that reduces conflict between all the users of the bus lane the easiest thing to do is put in a wide bus lane 4.25-4.6m. Or you can put in a bus lane with an on-road cycle lane beside it.

I am away from Galway so I can't check the details. But roughly as follows. In 2007 a design was produced that looked something like what is now being built. This contained various features associated in the international literature with increased risk of collision between cars and cyclists and was viewed as unworkable from the "cycling as a practical form of transport" perspective. Meetings were held between the city council and the cycling campaign where the concerns of the campaign delegation were rejected by the council engineers and their consultant engineers.

On foot of this a formal "fitness to practice" complaint against the consultants (Tobins) was lodged with the Association of Consultant Engineers. This was eventually rejected by the ACEI on the grounds, if I recall correctly, that consultants are required to follow the instructions of their clients. At that point the only likely way forward was to seek some form of judicial review of the ACEI decision. The potential costs of that are enormous so, after seeking legal advice, this avenue was dropped.

However, a new design was then circulated that included wide bus/cycle lanes and it was understood that this was the final design.

What then happened was that last year, a variation on the first unworksble design reappeared as the new final design. This design with off road footpath type cycle tracks between the junctions also fails to provide for standard turning movements by cyclists at key junctions - such as to access the city or the uni. The layout is such that for some cyclists it will be easier to cycle on the footpath portions and for some the bus lane will be more attractive. Also the failure to provide for cyclists trying to access the city centre or the University creates an incentive for some cyclists to cycle on the wrong side of the road either on the footpaths or the cycle tracks.

Transport planning Galway style you couldnt make it up

galwaycyclist

I should point out that AFAIK the bus lanes going into the road are 3-3.25m which will not be wide enough for a bus or a taxi to safely pass a cyclist or vice versa

Sponge Bob

If they have the cycle box at the front near the lights (per Moneen) then the cyclists will have priority at light changes and unlike Moneen they can theoretically get as far as the cycle boxes in one piece to avail of that priority. But dramatically changing a scheme design after An Bord Pleanála approves it seems grossly illegal to me and I said that when we discussed aspects of this before GC.

galwaycyclist

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If they have the cycle box at the front near the lights (per Moneen) then the cyclists will have priority at light changes and unlike Moneen they can theoretically get as far as the cycle boxes in one piece to avail of that priority. But dramatically changing a scheme design after An Bord Pleanála approves it seems grossly illegal to me and I said that when we discussed aspects of this before GC.

The current design does not include full width bike boxes.

If it is grossly illegal to change the design then where is the pedestrian footbridge that An Bord Pleanala also approved?

Sauce for the goose etc?

Sponge Bob

That could be considered 'temporarily deferred' as it is arguably not integral...starting and finishing off carriageway as it does