Not receiving all saorview channels

dev100

Hi Just a quick question for my mate he bought a saorview box for his holiday home in curracloe in wexford he has an old telly and says he bought an ariel for it. He receives all the radio channels plus the rte news channel picture is perfect, but he cant get the normal channels. I have the same setup and mine is perfect where Im living. is it a simple fix?

Now if this issue is addressed else where my apologies to the Mods

Jpmarn

Are you sure that this set top box is Saorview approved? Is the Word Saorview on the box? or is it a cheap Freeview box from England? Reception quality may be poor how does the anologue channels tune in?

dev100

Jpmarn wrote: »

Are you sure that this set top box is Saorview approved? Is the Word Saorview on the box? or is it a cheap Freeview box from England? Reception quality may be poor how does the anologue channels tune in?

The two of us bought both soarview boxes on same day from powercity, I was able to pick up all the irish channels straight away no hassles where I live. he says he can pick up the news channel crystal clear and thats all thats been picked up. After that Ive no idea .

Mr McBoatface

It's a common problem in Wexford where aerials where are set up for analogue signals from Mount Leinster. In that locality the new digital signal from Mount Leinster suffers interference from Wales. The interference is blocking the channels being broadcast on MUX1(Channel45). MUX2(Channel39) is testing at the moment, it's broadcasting the radio channels and RTE News Now and it is not subject to the interference. I'd hazard a guess this is what your brother is receiving.

He will need to adjust his aerial to point towards another transmitter mast, going by the RTE coverage checker - http://coverage.rtenl.ie/RTENLcoveragechecker.php , Forth Mountain is the correct one to be pointing at. Pointing it towards Gorey is another option. He will need to do a rescan one the aerial is adjusted.

The Cush

dev100 wrote: »

The two of us bought both soarview boxes on same day from powercity, I was able to pick up all the irish channels straight away no hassles where I live. he says he can pick up the news channel crystal clear and thats all thats been picked up. After that Ive no idea .

If possible can he check the receiver out at another location with a known good aerial?

What is the make and model of the receiver?

steveq

I think jobyrne30 has correctly pinpointed your pal's problem.
I had a poor aerial and a rescan completely missed MUX 1 with all the DTT channels and could only pick up the new MUX 2. This might have been weather related or maybe a change in the transmission power as it had worked well before.
MUX 2 has a number of blank channels, a test HD rolling clip and RTE News Now.

A correct Group aerial for the transmitter sorted me out and a rescan found both MUXes.

Here is a simple guide to the Group and Polarisation:
http://www.tvtrade.ie/digital-tv-aerial-selection-guide.html

lucernarian

Anyone with this problem, Please do email RTENL about this issue with not receiving some RTE channels in Wexford (brian.geraghty@rte.ie, the email address is publicly displayed on their website for dealing with DTT issues) and also the communications regulator (who is basically to blame for this mess) at interference@comreg.ie.

There's little that can be done until the regulator and RTE work out a different plan for DTT frequencies in the southeast.

Rick_

Strangely, I get a 98% signal strength on CH53 from Clermont but only 3-4% quality so I now cannot watch any Saorview channels. I am in the North and although I am technically not meant to be albe to receive the service, it is infuriating when a friend who lives 10 minutes away can get all the channels no problem. :mad:

lucernarian

That's a completely separate issue in fairness. This thread's about being able to pick up one multiplex while not being able to receive the other. A problem most often found in the southeast.

DTT from Clermont Carn in the six counties will be sorted out when the new, permanent DTT antenna is fitted on Clermont Carn and the power is turned up also. Signal quality is what matters, you can still enjoy good reception with a low signal strength reading. Though oftentimes a TV reporting very high signal strength and no quality on a mux is down to either excessive amplification or a very strong source of local EM interference or co-channel interference from another analogue or digital station on the same channel.

Rick_

Well, I can't get MUX 2 on CH57 at all if that counts for anything

Gerry Wicklow

@Paddy C
To put things in perspective, I normally get Preseli CH45 at 80% signal and 100% quality. If, due to weather, Preseli drops to 77% signal, I get 0% quality as Mt Leinster jams it. In other words 2 percentage points means all or nothing.

STB

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Anyone with this problem, Please do email RTENL about this issue with not receiving some RTE channels in Wexford (brian.geraghty@rte.ie, the email address is publicly displayed on their website for dealing with DTT issues) and also the communications regulator (who is basically to blame for this mess) at interference@comreg.ie.

There's little that can be done until the regulator and RTE work out a different plan for DTT frequencies in the southeast.

Sorry that is completely incorrect.

The problems in Wexford are down to people not making the choice between whether they want Irish or UK channels.

Anyone using a high gain aerial pointing at Wales is going to have problems and experience RTE appearing and disappearing because Mt Leinster is only coming in the back of the aerial during non lift conditions. That these aerials positioned for Wales with added masthead amps turned up full whack to pull in far awy signals rather than local Mt Leinster is the ROOT of the problem.

What is with people fascination of using high gain aerials pointing away from Mt Leinster and thinking its possible. Get a Sat dish if you want the UK channels like the rest of the country.

The aerial installers are being driven demented down in Wexford by people who want it all. It simply willl NOT work.

Ch 45 is allocated to Ireland for PSB Mux 1 for Mt Leinster, end of. Make a choice. Want Saorview ? Turn your aerial around and turn the fecking gain down on the masthead amp. Feck sake. It wouldnt be co channel if people wherent do things to make it so.

I am on the coast and use an indoor aerial for Mt Leinster (as well as outdoor yagi) with no problems.

FRIENDO

A great selections of channels are on Freeview from Wales including Channel Yesterday which is not on FTA satellite.
I dont believe it is right to complain to RTE as I now get perfect Saorview.
However I am unable to combine Saorview and Freeview on one cable as I loose Saorview in some weather conditions.
The solution for me was two cables one to my tv (Freeview) and a second to a saorview STB.

lucernarian

There is a poster here who resides in somewhat difficult terrain for Mt. Leinster, in Wexford. Reception on Ch. 39 was possible but Ch.45 never worked, while using a Group B aerial pointed at the Saorview transmitter. He was eventually sorted out by getting the aerial instead to pull in Forth Mountain, despite being over 20 km away IIRC.

Now, go tell him that he's "incorrect" when he pointed an aerial at Mt. Leinster and still couldn't receive Mux 1 from Mt. Leinster...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056146297&page=2

Also, what was incorrect about my post?! ComReg and OfCom are jointly responsible for spectrum coordination in the case of Mt. Leinster and Preseli, the offending co-channel interferer. Not much point in talking to OfCom about it as they are responsible for that jurisdiction's citizens. RTENL also liase with ComReg on Digital Switchover and the spectrum planning needs of RTE as a public service broadcaster and a user who loses reception of RTÉ on one mux would only be right to contact them over the causes and possible solutions. Hence RTENL's email address.

When telling someone they're "completely incorrect", please show them the courtesy of actual evidence for why they are wrong!

FRIENDO

Yes, I also had the same problem. I could get Ch 39 on test but I could not get Ch 45 from Mth Lenister. At the time I did complain to both RTE and my local TD.
In time RTE advised me to try Forth which is approx 20-25km away. Luckily I was using a wideband aerial so I did not need to buy a new aerial.
I taught a group B should have been fine for Forth 52V but may be a problem for 2nd Test Mux on 56V

STB

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

There is a poster here who resides in somewhat difficult terrain for Mt. Leinster, in Wexford. Reception on Ch. 39 was possible but Ch.45 never worked, while using a Group B aerial pointed at the Saorview transmitter. He was eventually sorted out by getting the aerial instead to pull in Forth Mountain, despite being over 20 km away IIRC.

Now, go tell him that he's "incorrect" when he pointed an aerial at Mt. Leinster and still couldn't receive Mux 1 from Mt. Leinster...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056146297&page=2

Also, what was incorrect about my post?! ComReg and OfCom are jointly responsible for spectrum coordination in the case of Mt. Leinster and Preseli, the offending co-channel interferer. Not much point in talking to OfCom about it as they are responsible for that jurisdiction's citizens. RTENL also liase with ComReg on Digital Switchover and the spectrum planning needs of RTE as a public service broadcaster and a user who loses reception of RTÉ on one mux would only be right to contact them over the causes and possible solutions. Hence RTENL's email address.

When telling someone they're "completely incorrect", please show them the courtesy of actual evidence for why they are wrong!

You are throwing around RTE email addresses willy nilly and not for the first time in this thread alone. RTE do not install aerials for individuals.

The aerial installers on the ground in Wexford know that in the majority of cases, the people have

1. Their aerial pointing to Wales
2. Masthead turned up accordingly to PULL in a weak signal
3. Intermittent Saorview reception coming in the back of the incorrect aerial pointing at Wales
4. Co Channel purely as a result of these madness set ups.

From my understanding you are an aerial installer, so you shouldnt have to have this explained to you.

Frequency allocation where discussed and agreed in GE06. I am not getting into a frrequency sovereignty protection discussion again.

As regards Friendo is in difficult terrain. And if you read the post that you just linked to you will note that his solution was actually suggested by me. And I DONT do aerial installs for individuals.

FRIENDO wrote: »

A great selections of channels are on Freeview from Wales including Channel Yesterday which is not on FTA satellite.
I dont believe it is right to complain to RTE as I now get perfect Saorview.
However I am unable to combine Saorview and Freeview on one cable as I loose Saorview in some weather conditions.
The solution for me was two cables one to my tv (Freeview) and a second to a saorview STB.

Yes well that it is the decision you have to make. Combining Freeview and Saorview is difficult as one will wipe out the other as weather conditions change - not an exact science and not measurable. Also you are trying to do stuff that is comprismising the other - near and far away reception with the one aerial array presumably through a amplified set up. It could be done, but would take a lot of patience. So for those extra few "freeview" channels that dont originate in Ireland you will have a lot of tweaking for the local reception.

lucernarian

You said that I was "completely incorrect", I'm still waiting for even a basic explanation of why that post was incorrect or indeed where anything else I said was wrong or out of place.

I got the email address from RTENL's publicly-available contact list. http://www.rtenl.ie/contact-us.html

You said that these problems were because of people's desire to pick up Welsh TV. I proved that statement was incorrect, and now you say it's the reason in the majority of cases. But the majority of cases are not what I am talking about here, I am concerned about the fact that there are well-meaning citizens out there who'd like to watch their public service broadcaster but who can't solely because of frequency coordination mistakes by OfCom and ComReg.

The point about difficult terrain being responsible doesn't wash well with me, it's not difficult enough that it stops reception of Mux 2 from Mt. Leinster.

And what relevance does you suggesting a solution to Friendo have here? Once again, the reason why I linked to that thread is to show there are people who can't receive Mt. Leinster's Mux 1 even with using the correct equipment, something which you claimed wasn't true. There are several experienced posters and aerial installers on this forum who've discussed the the issues in Wicklow and Wexford, and they've come to similar conclusions as I have, as soon as this problem reared its head. Why don't you take the discussion to that thread if you don't believe what I say?

elsie1b

STB wrote: »

Sorry that is completely incorrect.

The problems in Wexford are down to people not making the choice between whether they want Irish or UK channels.

Anyone using a high gain aerial pointing at Wales is going to have problems and experience RTE appearing and disappearing because Mt Leinster is only coming in the back of the aerial during non lift conditions. That these aerials positioned for Wales with added masthead amps turned up full whack to pull in far awy signals rather than local Mt Leinster is the ROOT of the problem.

What is with people fascination of using high gain aerials pointing away from Mt Leinster and thinking its possible. Get a Sat dish if you want the UK channels like the rest of the country.

The aerial installers are being driven demented down in Wexford by people who want it all. It simply willl NOT work.

Ch 45 is allocated to Ireland for PSB Mux 1 for Mt Leinster, end of. Make a choice. Want Saorview ? Turn your aerial around and turn the fecking gain down on the masthead amp. Feck sake. It wouldnt be co channel if people wherent do things to make it so.

I am on the coast and use an indoor aerial for Mt Leinster (as well as outdoor yagi) with no problems.

Begrudgery is alive and well stb.
Why advocate the use of channel 45 when it's used by Preselli ,it's surely going to cause problems for some Irish viewers ?
Mount Leinster has a number of available channels and has tested quite a few over the last few years.Preselli once used channel 39 for instance.
It just is not the truth to say that people must choose between both saorview and freeview.RTE NL could use another frequency if they were arsed !
Saorview is a good service and can only be damaged in people's perceptions by being used as a pawn in this manner.

STB

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

You said that I was "completely incorrect", I'm still waiting for even a basic explanation of why that post was incorrect or indeed where anything else I said was wrong or out of place.

I got the email address from RTENL's publicly-available contact list. http://www.rtenl.ie/contact-us.html

You said that these problems were because of people's desire to pick up Welsh TV. I proved that statement was incorrect, and now you say it's the reason in the majority of cases. But the majority of cases are not what I am talking about here, I am concerned about the fact that there are well-meaning citizens out there who'd like to watch their public service broadcaster but who can't solely because of frequency coordination mistakes by OfCom and ComReg.

The point about difficult terrain being responsible doesn't wash well with me, it's not difficult enough that it stops reception of Mux 2 from Mt. Leinster.

And what relevance does you suggesting a solution to Friendo have here? Once again, the reason why I linked to that thread is to show there are people who can't receive Mt. Leinster's Mux 1 even with using the correct equipment, something which you claimed wasn't true. There are several experienced posters and aerial installers on this forum who've discussed the the issues in Wicklow and Wexford, and they've come to similar conclusions as I have, as soon as this problem reared its head. Why don't you take the discussion to that thread if you don't believe what I say?

You didnt like to be corrected on the frequency allocations for Kilkeel either from the top of my head. And when you are told something about TX sites etc you question the source.

Friendo's problem you raised above. I was pointing to the fact that had you read the thread you linked to, I provided the solution. Do you think that is a coincidence ?

I honestly cant keep correcting you.

These issues are discussed in a variety of threads including but not limited to this one.

I wont take my discussion anywhere. I have already posted on this extensively. Yes I agree there are quite a few experienced posters and installers on this forum and then there are also some who dont know what they are talking about.

@elsie ? Begrudgery ? I live in Wexford.

I would begrudge giving up frequencies allocated to Ireland because people arent clever enough to realise that there problems are being created by their setups being optimized for Wales. Ch 45 is part of the optimal frequency plan for Ireland for Mt Leinster.

Mt Leinster WILL see an increase in power. If you have a problem with your setup - contact ISAA and get the aerial fixed professionally. ISAA have agreed a repositioning fix with RTE NL, to my knowledge, its €95.

lucernarian

STB wrote: »

You didnt like to be corrected on the frequency allocations for Kilkeel either from the top of my head.

I'm only going to address this bit in this post (and also a reference to the Kilkeel discussion) as the rest simply isn't dealing with my point about Mt. Leinster, that the frequencies used will lead to some people not being able to receive Saorview. And that should be for the long-running threads on the matter.

I didn't like the insinuation that I was making up information, the Digital UK website for some reason had different data to what is currently planned and that's why I had expressed some confusion on its status at DSO. That and the use of Killowen mountain, which gives Kilkeel its feed of the Ulster region channels. I don't there was anything to "correct" to begin with And it's bad form to be bickering like this and shifting from one argument to the next. I don't know why you brought up anything about Kilkeel other than to be argumentative. Or indeed why you are so thoroughly disagreeing with me in a thread which has little to do with the points you made about overspill reception. Or how the one publicly-available RTENL address I provided counts as being thrown around "willy-nilly".

I think this forum has a good spirit where well-informed people can discuss the significant and recent developments in terrestrial TV on this island, and also allow newbies to give their own perspective or seek out help on their issue. In other words, most of the posters here show each other respect for the posts we make in our own free time. Respect for the logic of a particular point, the depth of their experience and the civility that all posters should show to each other regardless of the differences of opinion. This forum seems to be a lot better in this regard than what I see on occasion on the Digital Spy forums.

I can accept that people won't always agree on a point of view (even if they are arguing about two different points!) but antagonism and unjustified criticism is out of order and having flame wars is not what this forum's about!

FRIENDO

I sometimes wonder about Ch45 co-channel inteference
Ch45 Preseli, Wales carrys Sky News, Pick TV, Pick TV +1, Dave, Dave +1 it also used to carry Sky 3 and Sky sports news.
Many of the above channels are popular on the Sky platform pay per view in Ireland.
I often wonder who is really behind co-channel interference ??

FRIENDO

@ STB, Yes thank you, you did help me in the past in directing me to Forth.
At that time I was nearer to Gorey, Mth Lenister and Arklow and taught Forth would be a slim chance. However I have Forth working perfect now.

Begob

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I can accept that people won't always agree on a point of view (even if they are arguing about two different points!) but antagonism and unjustified criticism is out of order and having flame wars is not what this forum's about!

Hear here! As a wexfordonian living on high ground I can get preseli on a length of co ax cable but not a sniff of mount leinster 45 even though we have it on analogue.
I have it on 39 though.

It's a stubborn frequency choice that beggars belief especially when theres so many available that don't clash.
Goin on about property rights on frequencies is just silly , it doesn't help the ordinary man affected by this and no I don't want to have to buy a dish

Gerry Wicklow

It should be noted that 3 of the four frequencies allocated to Mt Leinster clash with Preseli. Ch45 is actually the weakest coming from Preseli. No matter about the politics or patriotism of some posters, The bottom line is that someone f@cked up big time in the allocations of two adjacent high-powered Txs. Stubbornly digging their heals in wont fix the issue on either side of the sea.
I am lucky enough to be able to get fairly decent reliable signals from Preseli. However because my setup is designed for that purpose i can't complain too loudly if it doesn't give reliable RTÉ. Given the unresolved mess I have no intention of spending any money until things have been sorted out between Comreg and Ofcom. Nor should anyone else, in my opinion, be forced to spend a lot of money changing aerials to fix an unresolved admin error.

Vince Cable

elsie1b wrote: »

RTE NL could use another frequency if they were arsed !

Which frequency would you suggest? How do you know it wouldn't cause interference elsewhere?

Maybe the Mt. Leinster site is the main problem.

Vince Cable

Vince Cable wrote: »

Which frequency would you suggest? How do you know it wouldn't cause interference elsewhere?

Maybe the Mt. Leinster site is the main problem.

Normally I'd suggest they use the analogue channels after ASO but the change in aerial group at Mount Leinster makes that difficult.

elsie1b

Vince Cable wrote: »

Which frequency would you suggest? How do you know it wouldn't cause interference elsewhere?

Maybe the Mt. Leinster site is the main problem.

Don't forget that Mount Leinster has used or tested many frequencies for dtt in the past for both mpeg 2 and mpeg 4.Channels 30 and 34 are also internationally cleared for use at Mount Leinster.
Can you remember a blank carrier being transmitted on channel 45 for a very long time,from memory about 6 to 12 months.Why did they not use channel 39 at least in the initial mux 1 stage.
Speaks volumes.....

Gerry Wicklow

elsie1b wrote: »

Don't forget that Mount Leinster has used or tested many frequencies for dtt in the past for both mpeg 2 and mpeg 4.Channels 30 and 34 are also internationally cleared for use at Mount Leinster.
Can you remember a blank carrier being transmitted on channel 45 for a very long time,from memory about 6 to 12 months.Why did they not use channel 39 at least in the initial mux 1 stage.
Speaks volumes.....

If memory serves, CH39, 42, 45, & 49 are currently allocated for Mt L DTT. Preseli is already using 42, 45 & 49. All of which are a long shout from 23 & 26 currently used for analogue.
Of course this is Ireland. Dont fix the problem at the top, let the small man pay the bills:(

Vince Cable

Channel 39 was originally 'cleared' in the UK but was reinstated as a tv channel to facilitate the clearing of the 800 mHz band.
Services on channels 61 & 62 are being moved to 49 & 50 with affected muxes here being shunted down to 39 & 40 to preserve the aerial grouping at each transmitter as far as possible.
I would imagine this caused some uncertainty about the use of UHF 39.

This is all easily available information & I'm sure the people doing the actual planning are more 'in the know'.

Do people realise how far away these sites can cause interference? Even Cairn Hill on its relatively low & well inland site isn't unknown beyond our shores.

Peter Rhea

Vince Cable wrote: »

Channel 39 was originally 'cleared' in the UK but was reinstated as a tv channel to facilitate the clearing of the 800 mHz band. . .

. . . This is all easily available information & I'm sure the people doing the actual planning are more 'in the know'.

I'm fairly sure this was already mentioned in other threads dealing with this subject.
Looking back at some of the main ones, there were a lot of absurdly biased posts that seemed to regard RTE as merely a nuisance to UK reception, as well as some over-optimistic & technically naive reception 'predictions' that appeared to claim just about every high powered western UK transmitter to offer reliable service in eastern Ireland.

lucernarian

Just want to address one point: Any posts talking about Winter Hill, Blaenplywf, Llanddona or indeed Caradon Hill or Huntshaw Cross were far-fetched, but the fundamental problem always was between the nearest Welsh main TX to this state (Preseli) and the nearest Irish main TX to southeast Wales (Mt. Leinster).

I remember that Mt. Leinster has channels 30 and 34 cleared to use after DSO, but DSO is already complete in all the foreign areas which could possibly be affected by Mt. Leinster, so I don't see the need to persist in using a new aerial group for viewers in most of the southeast. The Kilduff, Waterford, Forth Mountain and Arklow TX sites have all been added in different places near the fringe of Mt. Leinster's service area. It's a funny coincidence, seeing as no other main TX in this country has had anything like 4 brand new UHF TV stations opened in its service area. Would there have been 4 new relays or a main site opened if Mt. Leinster continued to broadcast within the existing analogue UHF group?

If the likes of Winter Hill or even Emley Moor or Caldbeck or Caradon Hill had a change of aerial groups for the core PSB channels after switchover, there would be such consternation and outrage on the UK discussion forums, there would be action groups formed to meet with BBC or OfCom execs and all sorts. It's amazing that the UK could fit all their PSB channels in the existing groups for their dozens of main stations. We have a more sparsely scattered network of main sites, and we still couldn't manage that. It's worth bearing in mind if anyone thinks criticism of ComReg is not justified in this instance.

Gerry Wicklow

I don't think anyone expects UK reception as a god given right, but the co-channel interference is a two-edged sword. There are numerous posts from people trying to get Mt. L but are getting wiped out by Preseli. Again I ask why should thousands have to change their set-up when it only needs a flick of a switch at the other end?

Peter Rhea

The troublesome Preseli muxes are 10 kW, surely a full power Mt. Leinster will blow them away in most areas?

St Senan

I asked the Saorview people at the Trade seminar a few months ago about the ch45 Mt Leinster and Preselli co channel interference. What every installer in the room was told was that comreg allocated ch45 and that the spillover of UK channels from Wales is of no concern to Saorview/RTENL . Friendo you dont have direct line of sight from your house to the Mt leinster transmitter Sliabh Bui blocks you. The only way people are going to receive both the Saorview channels and the UK channels is to have a Group B or a Wideband pointing at Mt leinster and a Freesat installed for the UK channels. Its not the whole of Wexford that is affected its only small parts along the coast or like Friendo behind a hill. http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-checker/coverage-map/. People along the coast should basically get there Vhf and lowband UHF {redtip} aerials removed and turn there UK aerials to Leinster and buy a Saorview box. There will always be a difference of opinions with posters regarding Ch45 and Pressli.

Peter Rhea

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If the likes of Winter Hill or even Emley Moor or Caldbeck or Caradon Hill had a change of aerial groups for the core PSB channels after switchover, there would be such consternation and outrage . . .

That kind of indirectly supports the point I made about people mainly being concerned about the effect on their UK reception, with the change in aerial group for Saorview being a distant 2nd place to this concern.

lucernarian

Peter Rhea wrote: »

That kind of indirectly supports the point I made about people mainly being concerned about the effect on their UK reception, with the change in aerial group for Saorview being a distant 2nd place to this concern.

Why did you leave the rest of my point out?! The part you left out said that there would be outrage on UK forums. There would be justified criticism of OfCom if Joe Licensepayer had to fork out for a new aerial as well as get Freeview-capable TVs and set top boxes for a transmitter that covers tens of thousands of houses. Even if Preseli didn't exist, there are people who will have to get a new aerial to replace their existing UHF aerials if they want to continue watching the Irish PSB channels.

My point that you quoted has nothing to do with Irish people being concerned with their overspill reception of UK channels. It's unacceptable that many people will HAVE to get a new aerial to pick up Saorview. Group A aerials are not exactly brilliant at picking up broadcasts on Ch.45 and that is a point that I and others have made regularly in the past.

Peter Rhea

A lot of UK 'Joe licencepayers' have already forked out to receive the low powered & in some cases, out of band pre-dso broadcasts.

I was referring to the point I made about reading through past threads here (so I should have included your reference to UK forums, at least), where the reception of the Irish channels didn't really seem to enter in to the equation at all.

Other readers should really read the full quoted post or the rest of the thread for context.

marclt

I think the point here is, that it was an avoidable situation. I wouldn't expect spillover reception to be an issue for RTE/ComReg or anyone else, but you might think they would be interested in protecting their own signals from interference.

To think that in most cases in the UK, analogue and digital signals co-existed in the same band for long enough before ASO and then the analogue frequencies were reused.

Was it an error, or was it a calculated risk to reduce spill over? There must have been some financial justification to proceed with Arklow and Forth Mountain as new sites and to upgrade Gorey (which has very few analogue aerials pointing toward it) for digital. Especially in a time when the number of smaller sites was being reduced considerably.

Begob

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I remember that Mt. Leinster has channels 30 and 34 cleared to use after DSO, but DSO is already complete in all the foreign areas which could possibly be affected by Mt. Leinster, so I don't see the need to persist in using a new aerial group for viewers in most of the southeast. The Kilduff, Waterford, Forth Mountain and Arklow TX sites have all been added in different places near the fringe of Mt. Leinster's service area. It's a funny coincidence, seeing as no other main TX in this country has had anything like 4 brand new UHF TV stations opened in its service area. Would there have been 4 new relays or a main site opened if Mt. Leinster continued to broadcast within the existing analogue UHF group?

marclt wrote: »

Was it an error, or was it a calculated risk to reduce spill over? There must have been some financial justification to proceed with Arklow and Forth Mountain as new sites and to upgrade Gorey (which has very few analogue aerials pointing toward it) for digital. Especially in a time when the number of smaller sites was being reduced considerably.

Ya know you both could have something there.

Hundreds of thousands spent on those transmitters when ch 39 comes in so clear in a lot of the places they're supposed to be needed but no 45.
It has to be RTE at it again like the good old days when I was a bit goodyounger than now they tried to jam the welsh in wexford with that transmitter up in longford.
What have we ever done to them eh?
Where I live , theres about 50 houses scattered around that always had the welsh and still have but now they're going to have to spend money on a satelite yoke to get RTE and this is only an hours drive from dublin.
None of us can get a squeek out of arkla,gorey or kippure or forth but we have leinster 39.
Theres going to be some laugh at the end of next year.
Pardon my french but this is too much of a monumental feck up again to be a coincidence and I've a feelin RTE don't care as long as you and me are payin their fat salary.

Peter Rhea

Spend money on a satellite 'yoke' to get the UK channels & forget the 'Welsh'.

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Was it an error, or was it a calculated risk to reduce spill over?

Begob wrote: »

Ya know you both could have something there.

Hundreds of thousands spent on those transmitters when ch 39 comes in so clear in a lot of the places they're supposed to be needed but no 45.
It has to be RTE at it again like the good old days when I was a bit goodyounger than now they tried to jam the welsh in wexford with that transmitter up in longford.
What have we ever done to them eh?

Jamming more like it, considering that the Freeview channels that are encrypted on Sky (Dave, Pick TV etc) are on 45, and these are the very ones that would make people on the east coast want Freeview in the first place. The frequency allocation is awful, whoever thought that up? ... before someone corrects me I know it was the ITU but I just can't fathom why you'd allocate the same channels to two transmitters in close proximity to each other.

Despite this, I'm not concerned about UK reception. I'm concerned about those who will have to look at Saorsat or Sky to pick up RTÉ even without any aerials pointed towards Wales.

Vince Cable

Begob wrote: »

this is too much of a monumental feck up again . . .

Again? So you think the frequencies used at Cairn Hill (serving the midlands) were deliberately chosen to co-channel with Welsh transmitters (then again, most of your post has the tone of a piss-take).

Vince Cable

Karsini wrote: »

Jamming more like it, considering that the Freeview channels that are encrypted on Sky (Dave, Pick TV etc) are on 45, and these are the very ones that would make people on the east coast want Freeview in the first place.

There's no guarantee of any channels remaining on Freeview beyond the PSBs (if even), especially that Sky & UKTV owned tat.

Gerry Wicklow

I suppose it is only coincidence that Mt L is also allocated 42 and 49, the other commercial frequencies from Preseli.:eek:

FRIENDO

Hi Scaller, I'm very happy with my set up. Thanks to RTENL I have perfect Saorview from Forth cable going direct to STB, Thanks to UK almost (CH45) perfect freeview going to my mpeg 2 tv and I also have freesat HDR.
And a big thanks to all the help I got from people on Tech Boards.

FRIENDO

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I suppose it is only coincidence that Mt L is also allocated 42 and 49, the other commercial frequencies from Preseli.:eek:

:eek:

lucernarian

scaller wrote: »

I asked the Saorview people at the Trade seminar a few months ago about the ch45 Mt Leinster and Preselli co channel interference. What every installer in the room was told was that comreg allocated ch45 and that the spillover of UK channels from Wales is of no concern to Saorview/RTENL . Friendo you dont have direct line of sight from your house to the Mt leinster transmitter Sliabh Bui blocks you. The only way people are going to receive both the Saorview channels and the UK channels is to have a Group B or a Wideband pointing at Mt leinster and a Freesat installed for the UK channels. Its not the whole of Wexford that is affected its only small parts along the coast or like Friendo behind a hill. http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-checker/coverage-map/. People along the coast should basically get there Vhf and lowband UHF {redtip} aerials removed and turn there UK aerials to Leinster and buy a Saorview box. There will always be a difference of opinions with posters regarding Ch45 and Pressli.

But that doesn't address the other, more notable point about Mt. Leinster: people throughout the service area will need a change of aerial in many cases if they want to continue watching RTÉ terrestrially. I couldn't care that much about the loss of spillover reception when Freesat offers a viable alternative. I do care that people who have Group A aerials throughout the southeast will need a Group B aerial fitted instead. Or have to get a new aerial pointed to some relay or other, like Friendo or else have to get an aerial fitted where an indoor aerial would have worked.


If people in the UK felt the need to get large wideband yagis like the DAT75 to pick up Freeview before switchover, I say good for them. They had the money to pay for the installation. At least no one in the UK who just wants to watch the 4 largest channels after switchover, has to get an aerial changed in the vast majority of cases and certainly not if their aerial is horizontally polarised and in working order.

Using frequency allocations for the COM muxes from Blaenplywf (along with channel 32) would have worked better, as it wouldn't have any larger effect on Wales than using the COM allocations for Preseli currently dobut unlike Preseli, Blaenplywf is nulled towards Ireland and would cause much less interference along the Irish coast. More importantly, 22-25-28-32 are in the existing analogue UHF aerial group and while they're co-channel with Caradon Hill PSB muxes, the distance between the two should avoid interference in all but the most severe tropospheric ducting conditions.

marclt

Vince Cable wrote: »

Again? So you think the frequencies used at Cairn Hill (serving the midlands) were deliberately chosen to co-channel with Welsh transmitters (then again, most of your post has the tone of a piss-take).

I wouldn't say deliberately chosen, but they were very strong towards the south east and well out of area. There were some channel offsets iirc.

marclt

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

But that doesn't address the other, more notable point about Mt. Leinster: people throughout the service area will need a change of aerial in many cases if they want to continue watching RTÉ terrestrially....

Using frequency allocations for the COM muxes from Blaenplywf (along with channel 32) would have worked better, as it wouldn't have any larger effect on Wales than using the COM allocations for Preseli currently dobut unlike Preseli, Blaenplywf is nulled towards Ireland and would cause much less interference along the Irish coast. More importantly, 22-25-28-32 are in the existing analogue UHF aerial group and while they're co-channel with Caradon Hill PSB muxes, the distance between the two should avoid interference in all but the most severe tropospheric ducting conditions.

QUESTION IS NOW.. How do we effect a change? The politicians don't seem interested and many of them are bamboozled by technical talk (written for them by officials) when questions are asked of them in the Dail.

All of this is being allowed to happen because Saorsat is the prodigal Plan B.

Even using the old analogue allocation post switchover, which is still possible(?) interference would be minimised, they could take their pick of 23, 26, 30 or 34 and still use 39 if necessary.

lucernarian

When's the next RRC (Regional Radio Conference) for UHF allocations?!

The Cush

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

When's the next RRC (Regional Radio Conference) for UHF allocations?!

Using the last 2 as a guide I'd say about 2050 or whenever they replace digital broadcasting with a newer technology. Any changes to the current plan will be down to international coordination between countries.