Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

TCDStudent1

Kristopherus wrote: »

How can you say that? AOS had actually jumped before the ball was kicked. Was he expected to do a mid-air piruette to avoid Morgan?

I felt O'Sé could easily have avoided Morgan. He also led with his fists into him. Probably would have been a harsh enough red. However, it was a very avoidable black and he let his team down by going into Morgan.

I only saw the 2nd half of the match today. But there was a real lack of confidence in the Mayo forward line. Every time one of them had a chance to shoot over, they would delay it for that crucial second, the chance is lost. This happened time and again today. By the time Mayo would shoot, it was a far more difficult shot than was on in the first place. I'd love to see a Mayo forward get the ball, turn around and aim for goal straight away even if it went wide. But this doddering on the ball frustrates the hell out of me!

Kristopherus

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I felt O'Sé could easily have avoided Morgan. He also led with his fists into him. Probably would have been a harsh enough red. However, it was a very avoidable black and he let his team down by going into Morgan.

I only saw the 2nd half of the match today. But there was a real lack of confidence in the Mayo forward line. Every time one of them had a chance to shoot over, they would delay it for that crucial second, the chance is lost. This happened time and again today. By the time Mayo would shoot, it was a far more difficult shot than was on in the first place. I'd love to see a Mayo forward get the ball, turn around and aim for goal straight away even if it went wide. But this doddering on the ball frustrates the hell out of me!

Well, even the boys on tg4 were saying it was a harsh decision. The replays showed AOS lifting off before the ball was kicked.

I agree with the rest of your post ,though. The term "Headless chickens" could be applied to to a lot of what Mayo were doing today.

windy shepard henderson

Yeah mayo were under par today but in fairness not many stood up in killian O'connors absence, two great scores he got however the goal was a blatant square ball, cathel macilster showed his through colours again today with a very inconsistent performance, his normal practice is to turn against the loudest set of supporters/players early on and screw them which he done today but he did waver lee keegan and yer full forward from sending offs

crusier

Mayo need forwards that can score, all Ireland winning teams have them, they have got as far as they have due to an excellent half back line that have pushed forward to help a weak set of forwards, it will get you so far but in tight matches the scores dry up, they need at least two more forwards like Cillian o Connor

Fr Tod Umptious

manofwisdom wrote: »

That's a swarm defense not a balnket one.

A swarm defense is what is says it is, the oppossition swarm around the ball carrier no matter where he is on the field in order to turn over posession or force a free for overcarrying

The blanket involves putting all the players behind the ball so that the attacking team have no room and options but to recycle the ball and eventually get frustated and take bad shooting decisions, or try the force the ball to a player that may not be open.

Posession is then turned over and the defending team counter attack.

Yesterday was possibly the most stark example of the blanket I ever saw, at times all of Tyrone's players were within their own 40 and Mayo had to keep moving bcakwards and across the field to find an opening

GBXI

First off, did anyone buy their tickets for Sunday's match online where you can avail of a €5 discount and then have serious trouble picking them up at the ground? Shambolic organisation by Mayo GAA.

O'Shea should not have been black carded. Farcical decision from the ref, ably assisted by that gob****e Marty Duffy. It was a free out and possible yellow card if you felt O'Shea could time his interception better, but it was a clear genuine attempt to intercept Morgan's pass and the black card made no sense.

Mayo were poor, Tyrone were very good - very well set up and scored excellently on the break. There's no way Mayo should have conceded a goal though given the dominance we had at mid-field and the lack of Tyrone players in our half. Nice kick up the back-side for them after the comfortable win in Kerry.

davegrohl48

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Yeah mayo were under par today but in fairness not many stood up in killian O'connors absence, two great scores he got however the goal was a blatant square ball, cathel macilster showed his through colours again today with a very inconsistent performance, his normal practice is to turn against the loudest set of supporters/players early on and screw them which he done today but he did waver lee keegan and yer full forward from sending offs

There is only a square ball rule for set pieces. In open play there is no square ball rule.
I criticised Kinsella but to be fair he did miss I believe Cillian deliberately putting his hip into Morgan to take him out. That is why there should have been a free out there.
Kinsella seems to have a refereeing style that favours the blanket. What I mean is he will allow three men to surround a player. However he won't allow similar aggressive defending in a one on one match up e.g. Kevin Keane on Sean Cavanagh was really Cavanagh barging at a defender standing his ground. Keith Higgins on the wing was pulled.
Kinsella will also allow easier tug on the jersey/shoulder to go. Did so for both Mayo and Tyrone.
Anyways we need to be ready for the fact that there are referees with a style that is favourable to the blanket.
For a clear example Donie Vaughan is 35 yards from goal in the second half, tug on his jersey from behind. That's a straight up scoreable free not given. But similar were not being given all day in both directions, maybe a little bit more not towards us.

keane2097

davegrohl48 wrote: »

There is only a square ball rule for set pieces. In open play there is no square ball rule.

That's not correct. In open play a player may still not be in the square until after the ball is kicked. From deadball you can't be in the square until after the ball is.

davegrohl48

keane2097 wrote: »

That's not correct. In open play a player may still not be in the square until after the ball is kicked. From deadball you can't be in the square until after the ball is.

Okay got that wrong. Still a hard rule for refs to spot. You have to see the kicker and fast moving players near the square at the same time.

WallyGUFC

Have to say that if Tyrone persist with this extremely negative tactic and it begins to permeate other counties (Armagh, Donegal etc.) football will become a horrible spectacle to watch. Each Mayo kickout was a non-contest in yeer own 45 and Tyrone having 15 men behind the ball a lot of the time was terrible to watch. Thankfully they won't come next or near winning an All Ireland but they'll make any match they play dour and borderline unwatchable.

yop

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Have to say that if Tyrone persist with this extremely negative tactic and it begins to permeate other counties (Armagh, Donegal etc.) football will become a horrible spectacle to watch. Each Mayo kickout was a non-contest in yeer own 45 and Tyrone having 15 men behind the ball a lot of the time was terrible to watch. Thankfully they won't come next or near winning an All Ireland but they'll make any match they play dour and borderline unwatchable.

Totally agree, its a terrible thing to watch, of course if it wins teams games then the winners won't care, but as a spectacle then its gone. Teams might have to drive long ball into a big full forward to by pass it.

Gary Neville

keane2097 wrote: »

That's not correct. In open play a player may still not be in the square until after the ball is kicked. From deadball you can't be in the square until after the ball is.

That's right.

1. 1. Football Only – “Square Ball”

This has been amended to allow a player enter the small rectangle once the final deliberate play of the ball has been made, i.e as soon as the player kicks, hand-passes, fist passes or deliberately flicks the ball into the small rectangle then the attacking player may enter. The rule is unchanged with regard to “Set Play” i.e. Free Kicks, Line Balls and 45s – in these instances players are not permitted to enter the small rectangle before the ball.


Yesterday - the goal should not have been allowed as O Connor was in the square even before the ball was kicked in.

Terrible reffing & umpiring - IMO - that could very easily have changed the result.

km79

yop wrote: »

Totally agree, its a terrible thing to watch, of course if it wins teams games then the winners won't care, but as a spectacle then its gone. Teams might have to drive long ball into a big full forward to by pass it.

that's what Mayo should have done yday. moved Aidan o Shea to ff if needs be. he was completely nullified out the pitch by the short kick outs and blanket anyway
I'm VERY worried that neither of our managers did ANYTHING to change it and if what Pat Holmes is alleged to have said about being surprised by Tyrones tactics is true I really don't know what to say........yes it is only Feb but the lack of any plan is very worrying......then again in the club final he left Diarmuid Connolly off to run amok whilst Tom Cunniffe marked empty space so........

MayoAreMagic

Mayo were pretty clueless against tyrone. Against a swarm defence like that, why don't guys just play for frees? It wouldn't be hard to engineer a few, then just tap them over.

TCDStudent1

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Okay got that wrong. Still a hard rule for refs to spot. You have to see the kicker and fast moving players near the square at the same time.

Normally it is a hard one to spot but yesterday's example was one of the most obvious square balls ever!

yop

km79 wrote: »

that's what Mayo should have done yday. moved Aidan o Shea to ff if needs be. he was completely nullified out the pitch by the short kick outs and blanket anyway
I'm VERY worried that neither of our managers did ANYTHING to change it and if what Pat Holmes is alleged to have said about being surprised by Tyrones tactics is true I really don't know what to say........yes it is only Feb but the lack of any plan is very worrying......then again in the club final he left Diarmuid Connolly off to run amok whilst Tom Cunniffe marked empty space so........

Yip, was plan as day to plenty around me also. So not sure what to make of it.

ColeTrain

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Mayo were pretty clueless against tyrone. Against a swarm defence like that, why don't guys just play for frees? It wouldn't be hard to engineer a few, then just tap them over.

We weren't good enough yesterday to tap anything over to be fair!

davegrohl48

yop wrote: »

Yip, was plan as day to plenty around me also. So not sure what to make of it.

No one has been able to comprehend how Tom Cunniffe wasn't at least switched to mark Diarmuid Connolly.

Gary Neville

Hard to understand that result - In reality it should have been 1-11 to 0-7 - that's a serious beating at home. Mayo seemed very sharp in Killarney and Tyrone were awful v Monaghan last week.

Obviously Mayo struggle to deal with a blanket defence. Is it down to lack of quality forwards ?

My team, Cork have struggled badly too but we have finally said - if u can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I saw us struggle badly in the 2012 AI semi v Donegal - it was rope-a-dope - they sucked us in and destroyed us on the break with loads of open space to exploit.

It doesn't make for nice viewing but who wants to look good and lose ?

Everyone will adopt this template v Mayo now just as Donegal showed how to beat Dublin - is it time for Mayo to change their system ?

ColeTrain

davegrohl48 wrote: »

No one has been able to comprehend how Tom Cunniffe wasn't at least switched to mark Diarmuid Connolly.

It's certainly up there with the worst calls including Holmes himself being told to mark Maurice Fitzgerald in the 97 final.

MayoAreMagic

ColeTrain wrote: »

We weren't good enough yesterday to tap anything over to be fair!

While Cillian O'Connor sat on the bench...
To me that is the obvious step. Give tyrone some of their own back and unapologetically play for frees in front of the D. Once a gap opens up you would see tyrone become a little unsure of themselves. We were drawing a swarm and sending the ball backwards, but to guys who were static. These lads need to be coming at pace at a different angle. As soon as someone sticks out an arm, over you go and O'Connor chips it over. The smallest bit of game intelligence ad we would have beaten tyrone, bad as we were playing.

davegrohl48

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

While Cillian O'Connor sat on the bench...
To me that is the obvious step. Give tyrone some of their own back and unapologetically play for frees in front of the D. Once a gap opens up you would see tyrone become a little unsure of themselves. We were drawing a swarm and sending the ball backwards, but to guys who were static. These lads need to be coming at pace at a different angle. As soon as someone sticks out an arm, over you go and O'Connor chips it over. The smallest bit of game intelligence ad we would have beaten tyrone, bad as we were playing.

You'd nearly forget the difference the return from frees made.
We missed some very scoreable frees and yes our lads didn't play for frees enough. It's vital against the blanket to try and win some. I don't mean diving but I mean running hard at defenders.

MayoAreMagic

davegrohl48 wrote: »

You'd nearly forget the difference the return from frees made.
We missed some very scoreable frees and yes our lads didn't play for frees enough. It's vital against the blanket to try and win some. I don't mean diving but I mean running hard at defenders.

Exactly. Running at pace at a static opponent. If they cant stop you then keep going. If they stick out their arm or leg or whatever then take your free.
But don't do what we were doing, trying to solo in tight gaps with numerous opponents on your shoulder, taking pot shots from daft positions, giving the ball to static team mates etc etc.

km79

davegrohl48 wrote: »

You'd nearly forget the difference the return from frees made.
We missed some very scoreable frees and yes our lads didn't play for frees enough. It's vital against the blanket to try and win some. I don't mean diving but I mean running hard at defenders.

funny that you mention diving .......on at least one occasion a Tyrone player dived I. an attempt to buy a free. one in particular was a swan dive! the ref correctly did not give the free BUT a black card should have followed......

davegrohl48

km79 wrote: »

funny that you mention diving .......on at least one occasion a Tyrone player dived I. an attempt to buy a free. one in particular was a swan dive! the ref correctly did not give the free BUT a black card should have followed......

I'll finally get a rule correct ... a dive gets a yellow card. Checked that before.

km79

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I'll finally get a rule correct ... a dive gets a yellow card. Checked that before.

oh I thought they had added it to the black card offences for this season but must have just been a suggestion I read somewhere

Fr Tod Umptious

km79 wrote: »

that's what Mayo should have done yday. moved Aidan o Shea to ff if needs be. he was completely nullified out the pitch by the short kick outs and blanket anyway
I'm VERY worried that neither of our managers did ANYTHING to change it and if what Pat Holmes is alleged to have said about being surprised by Tyrones tactics is true I really don't know what to say........yes it is only Feb but the lack of any plan is very worrying......then again in the club final he left Diarmuid Connolly off to run amok whilst Tom Cunniffe marked empty space so........

On any other day I assume it would have been the plan to stick a big guy in FF and pond balls in.

The best guy for that would have been Barry Moran, but unfortanutely you had to use him in the middle with the AOS black card.
SOS and Gibbons were not even on the bench so Moran had to go midfield.

ColeTrain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

On any other day I assume it would have been the plan to stick a big guy in FF and pond balls in.

The best guy for that would have been Barry Moran, but unfortanutely you had to use him in the middle with the AOS black card.
SOS and Gibbons were not even on the bench so Moran had to go midfield.

Moran should have been brought in at least during half-time but they should have made adjustments earlier, when it was clear to everyone how the game was shaping up.

davegrohl48

ColeTrain wrote: »

Moran should have been brought in at least during half-time but they should have made adjustments earlier, when it was clear to everyone how the game was shaping up.

This continuously comes up about Barry Moran at full forward or as a target man. I'v seen him a few times at club level being marked by club defenders and him being only okay.
He's not the quickest and that isn't going to change. He doesn't have quick hands, he can't score goals with the foot or take points all that well. He's not the quickest over ten yards and he doesn't have the power of a guy like Donaghy or AOS to hold off two tacklers.
He might be able to break an odd ball but surely to God you need a few more attributes to be a target man. Not just breaking the ball randomly.

seligehgit

davegrohl48 wrote: »

This continuously comes up about Barry Moran at full forward or as a target man. I'v seen him a few times at club level being marked by club defenders and him being only okay.
He's not the quickest and that isn't going to change. He doesn't have quick hands, he can't score goals with the foot or take points all that well. He's not the quickest over ten yards and he doesn't have the power of a guy like Donaghy or AOS to hold off two tacklers.
He might be able to break an odd ball but surely to God you need a few more attributes to be a target man. Not just breaking the ball randomly.

Aidan O Shea would have been the obvious choice to throw in at full forward yesterday when it became so obvious that the tide was going going against us.
It's a shame that in spite of possessing many of the the attributes necessary to be a full forward Alan Freeman fails to impose himself physically.