Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

Gerry91

keane2097 wrote: »

There was a factual error in there that I just spotted - thank god you posted it here or I wouldn't have noticed (and Mayo fans don't seem to be in a very forgiving mood at the moment!)

2009 wrong year?

Gerry91

Ironically there are a good 7-9 tactical blunders you can look at and starting COC isn't one of them!!

Wouldn't have thought that beforehand if told we'd be debating questionable decisions

Gerry91

PS I really hope Horan stays on and he's been a super manager to transform Mayo into a real footballing heavyweight. He's definitely the best man to lead us into 2014

But it doesn't mean he's free from criticism for last Sunday. That's how it goes, managers- like players- will have off days too, that's life! I'm sure he'll learn big time from it and with the benefit of hindsight will cope better in future situations

Probably didn't help we weren't in a losing position all year and he didn't have to make any game changing calls (in the semi from the penalty on there was only one winner and the game hadn't hit the 40 min mark yet).

I sincerely hope we go completely flat out in the league and properly test ourselves v the big guns

keane2097

Fowler87 wrote: »

2009 was still fairly bad year losing to the Royals!

Gerry91 wrote: »

2009 wrong year?

Yeah I'm stuck in the past somehow thinking 2009 was two years ago for some unknown reason.

Gerry91

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah I'm stuck in the past somehow thinking 2009 was two years ago for some unknown reason.

Maybe going back a bit far but is it worth mentioning the 07 fiasco and 08 losing a qualifier ( I know you mentioned 08 originally) just to drive home Horan's impact?

Just my own 2c, it's well written though and very valid point about how he's transformed the team into a powerhouse.

On second thought it might seem a bit much referencing 3 seasons before he took over but it's not completely invalid I guess

ColeTrain

Getting rid of horan would be a huge mistake imo. If he wants to stay on then the board should back him 100%

ProudDUB

kevmy85 wrote: »

Things that should be considered in my mind for next year are:

• A new dedicated centre forward. In the past couple of years we've seen Dillon, Andy, Doc, Freeman, O'Connor, Richie Feeney, AOS and Higgins all line out at 11 in either league or Championship. It's one of the critical positions in the spine of the team, one where a leader is often required. Most of the those players above are not CFs and never will be. In my mind to make the best use of resources we play Cillian there and tell him it's his jersey and go lead us.

There has been a lot of talk since Sep 22 of Mayo lacking that marquee forward, as if it is their own silly, careless fault for not having one. The likes of Bernard Brogan, Colm Cooper, Michael Murphy etc etc are not exactly falling off trees. I wouldn't be holding my breath for Mayo (or anyone else for that matter) going out and magically finding one under the nearest rock, or even developing one over night.

What is so hard about getting the other five forwards to contribute more? No one is asking or expecting them to morph into marquee forwards overnight, and all step up and score 2-3 from play in every game. But Mayo only scored one point from play in the second half of the All Ireland final. One. That is not an acceptable rate of return from a forward line, whether they have a marquee forward in their ranks or not.

All that it would have taken for Mayo to win the the All Ireland final, was for two of their forwards to kick just one point from play in the second half. Just one point each. One measly point. Surely that is not too much to ask for and expect from them, even if it is in an All Ireland final?

aveytare

Yeah Moran scored 1-2 which is about as much as you'd expect from a 'marquee' forward in an all-ireland final. It's not the reason Mayo lost anyway.

ProudDUB

I know about Moran, I meant the other forwards, other than COC or AM stepping up. It's supposed to be a 6 man band, not a solo act.

aveytare

ProudDUB wrote: »

I know about Moran, I meant the other forwards, other than COC or AM stepping up. It's supposed to be a 6 man band, not a solo act.

Yeah I agree, that's what I was getting at too.

keane2097

Very rare for teams to have six scoring forwards though!

ProudDUB

Very rare for a team to win an All Ireland with only scoring one point from play in the second half.

I'm not saying that Mayo need to go out and find 6 Colm Coopers or 6 Bernard Brogans. But if their forwards could have scored just 3 points from play in the second half, they would have won the game. Three points from play, is not a huge amount to ask for from six forwards over 39 minutes is it?

keane2097

ProudDUB wrote: »

Very rare for a team to win an All Ireland with only scoring one point from play in the second half.

I'm not saying that Mayo need to go out and find 6 Colm Coopers or 6 Bernard Brogans. But if their forwards could have scored just 3 points from play in the second half, they would have won the game. Three points from play, is not a huge amount to ask for from six forwards over 39 minutes is it?

I think Mayo have plenty of good forwards to win an All Ireland if everyone is fit and healthy.

People get a bit overwrought about "from play" at times. To get points from frees someone obviously had to have been fouled in a scoring position. 1-14 wasn't a great total on the day, but they lost Freeman and Higgins who were both causing a lot of trouble out of that forward line.

blowitupref

ColeTrain wrote: »

Getting rid of horan would be a huge mistake imo. If he wants to stay on then the board should back him 100%

I'm sure Mayo county board will do all they can to keep him however after three years and young family it will be Horans decision if he wants to carry on and articles like that one in the Connaught Telegraph could swing his decision.

Horan and his management team hasn't come cheap Mayo are spending far greater money now than ever before and TBH corners will have to be cut eventually.

Always_Running

ProudDUB wrote: »

Very rare for a team to win an All Ireland with only scoring one point from play in the second half.

I'm not saying that Mayo need to go out and find 6 Colm Coopers or 6 Bernard Brogans. But if their forwards could have scored just 3 points from play in the second half, they would have won the game. Three points from play, is not a huge amount to ask for from six forwards over 39 minutes is it?

2-11,2-12 conceded in the last two finals, Mayo will have to lower those totals if All Ireland is to be won. By the way O'Connor's 0-8 was the highest score by a Mayo player in All Ireland final since 1936.

Always_Running

keane2097 wrote: »

I think Mayo have plenty of good forwards to win an All Ireland if everyone is fit and healthy.

People get a bit overwrought about "from play" at times. To get points from frees someone obviously had to have been fouled in a scoring position. 1-14 wasn't a great total on the day, but they lost Freeman and Higgins who were both causing a lot of trouble out of that forward line.

If you look at what the forwards have scored from play over the last few years it isn't good reading from a Mayo point of view either. The scoring defenders and top free taker has improved their match totals. 1-14 wasn't great you say but it was still Mayos highest total in a final for a long time.

keane2097

Always_Running wrote: »

If you look at what the forwards have scored from play over the last few years it isn't good reading from a Mayo point of view either. The scoring defenders and top free taker has improved their match totals. 1-14 wasn't great you say but it was still Mayos highest total in a final for a long time.

It's all part of the system though, mayos forward play esp tackling movement and distribution allows the backs to get forward and score.

What the forwards scored, how much you scored from play, marquee forward etc are all relics from a bygone age of analysis.

The reality is Mayo were a pion off Dublin without playing their best and having had their forward line badly disrupted by various things. There's nothing they needed to do differently to be good enough to win an All Ireland, they already are. That it didn't shake out that way for them on the day doesn't really change anything.

Fr Tod Umptious

blowitupref wrote: »

I'm sure Mayo county board will do all they can to keep him however after three years and young family it will be Horans decision if he wants to carry on and articles like that one in the Connaught Telegraph could swing his decision.

Horan and his management team hasn't come cheap Mayo are spending far greater money now than ever before and TBH corners will have to be cut eventually.

It will be interesting what might happen next

Will Horan say F**k you to the begrudgers and quit the job, or will he try to prove them wrong.

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It will be interesting what might happen next

Will Horan say F**k you to the begrudgers and quit the job, or will he try to prove them wrong.

Mr Henry will be happy then, never has had time for JH and made it very obvious. I don't think JH will take any heed of the rubbish that Henry writes.

keane2097

yop wrote: »

Mr Henry will be happy then, never has had time for JH and made it very obvious. I don't think JH will take any heed of the rubbish that Henry writes.

What's the guy's full name do you know yop? I wanted to give it but couldn't find it.

Very obviously has an agenda - some of the stuff in the article is lol tbh.

Fr Tod Umptious

yop wrote: »

Mr Henry will be happy then, never has had time for JH and made it very obvious. I don't think JH will take any heed of the rubbish that Henry writes.

I just read the full article online and even though the points raised are valid the article itself reads like the writer has a agenda against Horan.

The idea that Buckley is an 'unsung hero' is laughable, he has got most of the credit for Mayo's improvement in 2013

yop

keane2097 wrote: »

What's the guy's full name do you know yop? I wanted to give it but couldn't find it.

Very obviously has an agenda - some of the stuff in the article is lol tbh.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I just read the full article online and even though the points raised are valid the article itself reads like the writer has a agenda against Horan.

The idea that Buckley is an 'unsung hero' is laughable, he has got most of the credit for Mayo's improvement in 2013

Aidan Henry is his name, its has been noted previously that he wasn't a fan, to put it lightly.
While I can agree with some of the points, what I find laughable is that its a KNOWN FACT that Richie Feeney didn't have a row, so yes the questions were asked on the day, but since then it has come out why.
We are not dealing with PL players who have agents who you need to go through, the lads are fully approachable and if was as good a reporter as he thinks he is, then he would be able to approach the players themselves, as other reporters have.

As pointed out point 7 is laughable, go back over the match and see the interaction between Horan and his team.

As pointed out on this forum, AOS was blocked at every chance, he was a marked man (rightly so), so his ability to "Drive" was negated by the Dubs.

Kevin Keane is still suffering from last year, launching the lad into that final while he has feck all play time during the year could have been a total disaster. The McHale lad had a good league, did he even appear in the championship?

Point 6 is very valid, point 5 would be down to the fact he was out on his feet but he had a great game. Maybe AOS could have also been taken off.
Dillion could have also been taken off.

At the end of the day, if JH leaves the Mayo job we are going backwards. Aidan Henry has just taken a chance for a cheap shot.

Kalyke

Point number 1 is the number 1 point! It has to be addressed. I don't want James head on a plate. In fact the complete opposite. But I would equally hate to see Freeman walk away from Mayo and wreck a very promising young career!

yop

Kalyke wrote: »

Point number 1 is the number 1 point! It has to be addressed. I don't want James head on a plate. In fact the complete opposite. But I would equally hate to see Freeman walk away from Mayo and wreck a very promising young career!

Who said he was going to walk away?

Kalyke

He is completely pi##ed off at the "reason" given for his early departure during the final. He wants and needs it cleared up. We all do. The truth will come out. It always does.

yop

Kalyke wrote: »

He is completely pi##ed off at the "reason" given for his early departure during the final. He wants and needs it cleared up. We all do. The truth will come out. It always does.

And where is this coming from? From the article?

kevmy85

ProudDUB wrote: »

There has been a lot of talk since Sep 22 of Mayo lacking that marquee forward, as if it is their own silly, careless fault for not having one. The likes of Bernard Brogan, Colm Cooper, Michael Murphy etc etc are not exactly falling off trees. I wouldn't be holding my breath for Mayo (or anyone else for that matter) going out and magically finding one under the nearest rock, or even developing one over night.

What is so hard about getting the other five forwards to contribute more? No one is asking or expecting them to morph into marquee forwards overnight, and all step up and score 2-3 from play in every game. But Mayo only scored one point from play in the second half of the All Ireland final. One. That is not an acceptable rate of return from a forward line, whether they have a marquee forward in their ranks or not.

All that it would have taken for Mayo to win the the All Ireland final, was for two of their forwards to kick just one point from play in the second half. Just one point each. One measly point. Surely that is not too much to ask for and expect from them, even if it is in an All Ireland final?

I think you're misunderstanding me a little. We need to make the best out of the forwards that we have and look to add a few in the league. As you say the lads you can score a point or two here and there. But in my mind CF is a critical position and we have done too much swapping around there. I also believe that line in particular let us down in the final in the 2nd half.

I believe by placing COC at 11 and bringing on the talent that is there in the forward line (as Dublin done this year) we can improve. Not looking for a Gooch or a Micheal Murphy but look how Freeman improved us this year, could someone else come in and make that kind of contribution in the corner next year (Coen or Regan)?

I'd dispute the scored from play thing. COC scored a host of handy frees in the 2nd half which probably would have been tapped over from play if Dublin hadn't gone as defensive/cynical. I'm not blaming Dublin for it - they done the right thing - just stating a fact.



I think losing Horan would be a big mistake. No ones is doubting he's made errors - everyone around the team is probably thinking of the one or two things they done wrong in the game. Still his record is immense compared to previous managers including Maughan (Mark 1 and 2) and Johnno (Mark 1 and 2)

Always_Running

keane2097 wrote: »

It's all part of the system though, mayos forward play esp tackling movement and distribution allows the backs to get forward and score.

What the forwards scored, how much you scored from play, marquee forward etc are all relics from a bygone age of analysis.

The reality is Mayo were a pion off Dublin without playing their best and having had their forward line badly disrupted by various things. There's nothing they needed to do differently to be good enough to win an All Ireland, they already are. That it didn't shake out that way for them on the day doesn't really change anything.

I'm not so sure about that for example would Dublin have won their last two All Irelands without Bernard Brogan? and the Mayo minor forward line where free scoring all year i think they scored 2-7 from play in the final.

Systems are great its what has taken Mayo to back to back All Ireland finals however stats will still tell you that the extra class up front normally wins All Irelands.

Gerry91

We won't know till the league really in all fairness so it's pretty pointless speculating whether Freeman/Feeney/Keane have walked away, been dropped etc etc.

No disrespect intended to anyone but I've read so many contrasting reports on all this that it's getting tiring frankly.

If they go, they go, if they don't, they don't but Ill be supporting them whoever is in charge/playing next year from the first FBD (well league tbf- jeepers I'll be stressed enough all year without worrying about FBD ) game

Gerry91

It's a valid point thogh, the idea you play 6 out and out forwards and 6 are expected to all score from play is outdated tbh

For example I'd much rather K Mc L winning a certain number of turnovers rather than winning no ball but being on the end of two moves and tapping them over the bar

He'll contribute far more to the team winning mountains of ball out the field such is his role. As a result the team will generate more scoring chances for someone else to take

Not many teams will play 6 orthodox out and out forwards in this day and age. Galway came close v Cork but it cost them in a way, Cork counter attacked for fun (not brilliantly though admittedly)