Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

Defiler Of The Coffin · 30-09-2013 12:49PM

kippy wrote: »

Kerry, Dublin, Cork and Galway have all lost more finals than us.........
(Yep, statistics can prove or disprove anything)

If there is "disharmony" in the camp - Horan will sort it out, he has done it in the past, least we forget.

They've all won more as well. No matter which way you spin it our record in AIs is shocking.

All that being said, there's nothing that can be done about it now, except to push on and keep challenging.

Hopefully Horan will indeed sort it out, but if what has been said about Freeman is true then he has a lot of work to do to get things back on track.

kippy · 30-09-2013 12:53PM

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

They've all won more as well. No matter which way you spin it our record in AIs is shocking.

All that being said, there's nothing that can be done about it now, except to push on and keep challenging.

Hopefully Horan will indeed sort it out, but if what has been said about Freeman is true then he has a lot of work to do to get things back on track.

Cork come fairly close to be fair.
7 wins, 17 losses.

Agree, nothing can be said right now to change any of that.

Discontent in the camp can also be expected somewhat. It was a one point game, every decision had implications and some players will be annoyed with themselves, others or the situation.
A few weeks of contemplation, where they consider the position is no harm and if they aren't committed they owe it to themselves and the country to withdraw from the setup. Who could blame them realistically.

Fowler87 · 30-09-2013 12:58PM

Don't know about ye lads but I'm happy there is discontent in the camp. Shows they have alot of work to do and want to improve. If they were content that they were in a good position after this year I'd be more worried which after 2 consecutive AI finals can only be a good thing

kippy · 30-09-2013 01:21PM

Fowler87 wrote: »

Don't know about ye lads but I'm happy there is discontent in the camp. Shows they have alot of work to do and want to improve. If they were content that they were in a good position after this year I'd be more worried which after 2 consecutive AI finals can only be a good thing

Yep,
That's a completely true reflection of how it should be.

30-09-2013 01:30PM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Alan Freeman did not have flu lads, and I have heard that he will never play under Horan again

If true it makes Horans stupid decision to sub Freeman even worse.

eljoker · 30-09-2013 04:33PM

Lads you need to face facts, you just don't have the balls for the big day. You have fantastic footballers but you beat a Tyrone team that lost half there forwards and you hammered average teams. Donegal were not a shadow of last year. You need someone that can inspire a bit of confidence. God is the only person I know that could make a Mayo footballer believe he could lift sam. It's been a poor few years in football overall. Well done in the minor. Maybe the Mayo team caught bit of a bug, mind you its lasted years

Gerry91 · 30-09-2013 05:07PM

eljoker wrote: »

Lads you need to face facts, you just don't have the balls for the big day. You have fantastic footballers but you beat a Tyrone team that lost half there forwards and you hammered average teams. Donegal were not a shadow of last year. You need someone that can inspire a bit of confidence. God is the only person I know that could make a Mayo footballer believe he could lift sam. It's been a poor few years in football overall. Well done in the minor. Maybe the Mayo team caught bit of a bug, mind you its lasted years

The Mayo weren't tested line was thrown around enough during the year...

It was tiresome then and it is even more so now

Next year I hope Horan asks the GAA can they ensure Mayo get "tough" opposition in every round. That or put out the under 21 team so it'll look more of a "test"

They beat what was in front of them and did it handsomely too

They made an All Ireland final ffs. The fact they did it with a score difference nighing on 70 points is not their fault. It shows their serious quality more than anything. Quality they didn't bring with them to the final. Maybe next year they'll miss a few open goals and the likes so it'll seem they were tested

Fowler87 · 30-09-2013 05:33PM

RIP Tom Acton. Only 2 left now:(

MaroonAndGreen · 30-09-2013 05:54PM

RIP Tom Acton, another hero gone

Fr Tod Umptious · 30-09-2013 06:16PM

RIP Tom Acton

I thought there was another one in the US called Peter Quinn alive, read it in the Irish Times a few months back, the paper of record no less.

K4t · 30-09-2013 06:16PM

Just out of curiosity, having seen the threads on hurler of the year and Ciaran Kilkenny, just wondering can someone tell me how good keith Higgins is at the hurling, as in would he be senior first team standard in the more traditional counties..the top 6?

Fr Tod Umptious · 30-09-2013 06:17PM

Fowler87 wrote: »

RIP Tom Acton. Only 2 left now:(

It would be a terrible shame if they are all dead before Mayo win their next All Ireland

30-09-2013 06:19PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

RIP Tom Acton

I thought there was another one in the US called Peter Quinn alive, read it in the Irish Times a few months back, the paper of record no less.

He(88 years) was at the final last week, still three of the team of 51 left. If we are still blaming them instead of the obvious failings, then we are really scraping the barrel for excuses.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/football-hero-priest-who-lifted-sam-gets-best-pew-at-croker-29587050.html

Gerry91 · 30-09-2013 06:25PM

K4t wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, having seen the threads on hurler of the year and Ciaran Kilkenny, just wondering can someone tell me how good keith Higgins is at the hurling, as in would he be senior first team standard in the more traditional counties..the top 6?

Impossible to assess I suppose given he would never be given a chance to test himself against these guys on a regular basis as it stands and that he wouldn't have good enough lads around him now to maybe bring out the best in him

I'm sure if he committed full time and was hypothetically given a year to play in Galway club championship and train with county he'd be knocking on the door for a place in their team. He played interpros a few years a go I think with Connacht alright with all Galway players

Always_Running · 30-09-2013 08:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He(88 years) was at the final last week, still three of the team of 51 left. If we are still blaming them instead of the obvious failings, then we are really scraping the barrel for excuses.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/football-hero-priest-who-lifted-sam-gets-best-pew-at-croker-29587050.html

missed last year's final as he was unable to secure a ticket

WTF was the county board at? one of the 51 AI winners should be one of the first to be given/offered tickets.

Defiler Of The Coffin · 30-09-2013 08:52PM

Always_Running wrote: »

WTF was the county board at? one of the 51 AI winners should be one of the first to be given/offered tickets.

Thought all past players were entitled to tickets? So including Tom Acton there were actually four past players still alive?

RIP Tom

Fr Tod Umptious · 30-09-2013 09:44PM

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Thought all past players were entitled to tickets? So including Tom Acton there were actually four past players still alive?

RIP Tom

It's a bit of a mystery how many are still alive because the subs are othen not mentioned

There are three of the starting 15 still left, Peter Quinn, Paddy Prendergast and Padraig Carney

I have no idea how many of the subs are left, Dr Mick Loftus is alive, a guy called Willie Casey may also be alive, but I have no idea who the other subs were

Acton must have been a sub then.

By the way only one sub was used on the day Hastings for Dixon

yop · 01-10-2013 11:46AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's a bit of a mystery how many are still alive because the subs are othen not mentioned

There are three of the starting 15 still left, Peter Quinn, Paddy Prendergast and Padraig Carney

I have no idea how many of the subs are left, Dr Mick Loftus is alive, a guy called Willie Casey may also be alive, but I have no idea who the other subs were

Acton must have been a sub then.

By the way only one sub was used on the day Hastings for Dixon

Homebase doing a buy 3 get 1 free offer on "Storm"... a spoon into the tea might help the 2014 campaign

kevmy85 · 01-10-2013 12:09PM

Lads are getting very worked up and angry over the final loss and fair enough I can see where that comes from. We are all distraught and disappointed as this final was one we could have won deep into the second half. We probably have to go back to 96 to say that again. I felt and noticed a very different vibe leaving the final this year compared to last year and in comments around since.

Having said all that I don't think spreading rumour about Freeman, Feeney, other unnamed players and general disunity is the way to go. I don't think it helps our cause. Neither does calling for Horans head or for a clear out of the playing crew.

A calm rational approach is needed. The management and players need to look at the mistakes as they see them leading up to and during the final. Everything should be on the table within that group and people outside should steer clear of personal rumours and stirring things up.

I think Horan absolutely deserves another year. Look where we are now compared to with Johhno with a similar level of talent 3 years ago. Light years removed. If there is serious discontent in the camp that will come out from the players in all due time - personally I do not think this will happen.

Things that should be considered in my mind for next year are:

A new/additional back room man with tactical nous and experience to aid Horan in making calls from the stand. Someone along the lines of Kevin McStay.

A new dedicated centre forward. In the past couple of years we've seen Dillon, Andy, Doc, Freeman, O'Connor, Richie Feeney, AOS and Higgins all line out at 11 in either league or Championship. It's one of the critical positions in the spine of the team, one where a leader is often required. Most of the those players above are not CFs and never will be. In my mind to make the best use of resources we play Cillian there and tell him it's his jersey and go lead us.

Additional players found/brought on. One of the mistakes the last day was too much moving around of guys and (seemingly) not trusting the fellas off the bench. We need to bring on and try in the league the likes of McHale, Keane, Walsh, Burke, Harrison, Gallagher, Coen, Doc, Carolan, Kirby, Regan, Conor O'Shea and others.

Towards the end of the league a ruthlessness to be shown to the panel. Guys are in or out. We probably need 14 forwards, 14 backs, 4 midfielders and 3 goalies. The training panel from end of the league on should be those guys who have the form or who have shown they can do it in the past at the highest level. It may require cutting some fellas who've been on the panel a while but we must trust the next guy who's on the bench.

An extended rest for some of the players on the go for the last 3 years and who've played tons of football. No need for them in the FBD or early stages of the league. I'm talking about the likes of Higgins, Boyle, Caff, Dillon, Donie, K Mc.

Get the fellas who were here in the last two years to write down how they've felt in the past two weeks. The hurt, the pain and the feeling of losing. Then put it away. Bring them out again if we make it back to the final next year. They will not want to feel like this again.

yop · 01-10-2013 12:29PM

McStay strongly linked with Kildare job, be interesting to see if that stirs the county board into an announcement on Jimmy Horan

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-10-2013 02:57PM

kevmy85 wrote: »

Lads are getting very worked up and angry over the final loss and fair enough I can see where that comes from. We are all distraught and disappointed as this final was one we could have won deep into the second half. We probably have to go back to 96 to say that again. I felt and noticed a very different vibe leaving the final this year compared to last year and in comments around since.

Having said all that I don't think spreading rumour about Freeman, Feeney, other unnamed players and general disunity is the way to go. I don't think it helps our cause. Neither does calling for Horans head or for a clear out of the playing crew.

A calm rational approach is needed. The management and players need to look at the mistakes as they see them leading up to and during the final. Everything should be on the table within that group and people outside should steer clear of personal rumours and stirring things up.

I think Horan absolutely deserves another year. Look where we are now compared to with Johhno with a similar level of talent 3 years ago. Light years removed. If there is serious discontent in the camp that will come out from the players in all due time - personally I do not think this will happen.

Things that should be considered in my mind for next year are:
A new/additional back room man with tactical nous and experience to aid Horan in making calls from the stand. Someone along the lines of Kevin McStay.
A new dedicated centre forward. In the past couple of years we've seen Dillon, Andy, Doc, Freeman, O'Connor, Richie Feeney, AOS and Higgins all line out at 11 in either league or Championship. It's one of the critical positions in the spine of the team, one where a leader is often required. Most of the those players above are not CFs and never will be. In my mind to make the best use of resources we play Cillian there and tell him it's his jersey and go lead us.
Additional players found/brought on. One of the mistakes the last day was too much moving around of guys and (seemingly) not trusting the fellas off the bench. We need to bring on and try in the league the likes of McHale, Keane, Walsh, Burke, Harrison, Gallagher, Coen, Doc, Carolan, Kirby, Regan, Conor O'Shea and others.
Towards the end of the league a ruthlessness to be shown to the panel. Guys are in or out. We probably need 14 forwards, 14 backs, 4 midfielders and 3 goalies. The training panel from end of the league on should be those guys who have the form or who have shown they can do it in the past at the highest level. It may require cutting some fellas who've been on the panel a while but we must trust the next guy who's on the bench.
An extended rest for some of the players on the go for the last 3 years and who've played tons of football. No need for them in the FBD or early stages of the league. I'm talking about the likes of Higgins, Boyle, Caff, Dillon, Donie, K Mc.
Get the fellas who were here in the last two years to write down how they've felt in the past two weeks. The hurt, the pain and the feeling of losing. Then put it away. Bring them out again if we make it back to the final next year. They will not want to feel like this again.

Is that something Horan would go for ?
To my knowledge he is very much his own man, I'm not sure how he would be with someone coming in telling him what to do tactically.

01-10-2013 02:58PM

kevmy85 wrote: »

A new/additional back room man with tactical nous and experience to aid Horan in making calls from the stand. Someone along the lines of Kevin McStay.

I think we would all like to see that, but Horan doesn't come across as someone who is willing to listen.

Coillte_Bhoy · 01-10-2013 03:21PM

Always_Running wrote: »

WTF was the county board at? one of the 51 AI winners should be one of the first to be given/offered tickets.

all ex players are offered a ticket to by so thats just bull****

kevmy85 · 01-10-2013 04:15PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Is that something Horan would go for ?
To my knowledge he is very much his own man, I'm not sure how he would be with someone coming in telling him what to do tactically.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we would all like to see that, but Horan doesn't come across as someone who is willing to listen.

He's brought in Cian O'Neill and Buckley over the past couple of years so why not someone else? Obviously it'd have to be someone he'd trust and I'm not advocating anyone telling him what to do tactically but it'd be no harm to have fresh eyes coming from the stands.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-10-2013 05:05PM

kevmy85 wrote: »

He's brought in Cian O'Neill and Buckley over the past couple of years so why not someone else? Obviously it'd have to be someone he'd trust and I'm not advocating anyone telling him what to do tactically but it'd be no harm to have fresh eyes coming from the stands.

Buckley and O' Neill are different
They had specific jobs related to training, skills etc
The tactical decision the are made on the day are usually the sole responsibility of the manager, and that's where there may be a problem

Gerry91 · 01-10-2013 05:19PM

Saw this on the twitter machine

While getting rid of him is completely drastic, I agree with the 7 points raised.

http://t.co/Myldwg5PyU

Gerry91 · 01-10-2013 05:27PM

If there's any silver lining it's that last sunday was not all that dissimilar to 2012 IMO- and we bounced back from that

Then again this one seems harder to take

Grand you could say we had a huge mountain to climb after ten minutes and fought back admirably, but I distinctly remember a period in the second half of that game, lasting over five minutes anyway , when we were three points down and turned over numerous amounts of possession in this period only for a silly pass to occur or someone to lose the ball or a forward not getting out in front of his man. Donegal came up the pitch, scored and it was game over

In a sense I do believe both games were there for the winning in the second half. We really did have Donegal on the rack at that stage IMo but couldn't push on. Similarly against the Dubs we got it back level yet wilted away again

If nothing else it would be thoroughly interesting if Mayo were to make the final next year would they go out and take the game by the scruff of the neck in the second half. For all the talk about the first ten mins in 2012 the mid point of the second half was terrible, as it was last sunday. Two finals in a row, we had it snatched off us in the mid point of the second half

keane2097 · 01-10-2013 05:31PM

Gerry91 wrote: »

Saw this on the twitter machine

While getting rid of him is completely drastic, I agree with the 7 points raised.

http://t.co/Myldwg5PyU

There was a factual error in there that I just spotted - thank god you posted it here or I wouldn't have noticed (and Mayo fans don't seem to be in a very forgiving mood at the moment!)

Fowler87 · 01-10-2013 05:46PM

keane2097 wrote: »

There was a factual error in there that I just spotted - thank god you posted it here or I wouldn't have noticed (and Mayo fans don't seem to be in a very forgiving mood at the moment!)

2009 was still fairly bad year losing to the Royals!

01-10-2013 05:46PM

Gerry91 wrote: »

Saw this on the twitter machine

While getting rid of him is completely drastic, I agree with the 7 points raised.

http://t.co/Myldwg5PyU

A list of seven questions the Telegraph journalist believes Horan must answer if he wishes to continue in his role is given below.
The seven key questions Mayo fans want answered

1. Why was Alan Freeman taken off after 25 minutes when he was causing the Dublin backline all sorts of problems and had already been responsible for three of the Mayo points? The early explanation that he was not up to it as he was suffering from ‘flu was a very lame excuse and one that the Mayo fans have certainly not bought into.

2. What is the explanation for the non-appearance of Richie Feeney during the course of the game, especially given the fact that he had been a magnificent impact sub throughout the year?

Mayo supporters were crying out for Feeney’s introduction as they felt he was the player who could run at the heart of the Dublin defence, especially after Keith Higgins had been brought back to cornerback for the second half.

Since the final, rumours have been circulating in the county like wildfire that some sort of difference of opinion between Horan and Feeney had occurred. If that was the case it should not be a cause of sacrificing an All-Ireland title.

3. Why was Keith Higgins, who was troubling the Dublin defence by his bursting runs in the first half, brought back to replace Tom Cunniffe at corner-back for the second half? There were two corner backs on the bench, Kevin Keane (who played in the All-Ireland final last year) and Shane McHale. What message was sent out to these two players?

4. Why was Aidan O’Shea placed between the half-back line and midfield?

Everyone knows that O’Shea was in the form of his life (his display against Donegal was evidence of this) and he should have been given the freedom of the park to drive at Dublin.

5. Why was the one man, Seamie O’Shea, who was driving at Dublin at every opportunity taken off with 10 minutes remaining?

6. What happened our defence of the Cluxton kickouts? They really killed us, especially in the second half.

7. Why was coach Donal Buckley not more involved in the sideline decision-making during the final?

It may be drastic but they are valid points, i would add

8) Why were there not changes made to the team to take advantage of the fact that Dublin were only playing with 13 fit players for the last 15 minutes ?

9) Why was Dillon left on the pitch so long when he was the cause of so many attacking breakdowns ? Has Horans loyalty to his club-mate over Feeney cost Mayo an All-Ireland ?

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