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Still Waters No Longer Running, Derp.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    Can anyone help me translate the parts in bold. I'm really struggling. :confused:

    Translating John Waters? I'm not entirely sure if different people reading some of his columns would agree on the meaning.

    His mention of Orwell was ironic - perhaps he hasn't read Animal Farm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    I have analysed John Waters' writing style in the past. All his articles go like this:

    He's also very serious. He even has a serious beard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Yet again, I find myself bewildered about what exactly the requirement is to become a journalist.
    Sending in copy on a regular basis seems to be a major factor. Making sense of any kind seems increasingly optional.
    Spouting an opinion seems to be all they do these days. Honestly, just look at that trial in the U.S depressing **** the media is.
    Perhaps opinion columns are cheaper than actually employing real journalists.


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    feelpablo wrote: »
    Properly understood, religion enables the opening up of the child’s natural understanding of his/her own structure and relationship with the totality of reality.

    Among the many ingredients missing from this prescription is the nurturing of the subjectivity of the child in the mysteriousness of reality.

    When is his great work of fiction going to be published :rolleyes:
    With those quotes he sounds like one of the more pretentious postmodernist philosophers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    koth wrote: »
    from Wa(lly)ters on Newstalk: "Education is not education without religion" :rolleyes:

    questioning beliefs is "an imposition on the religious parents":rolleyes:
    "Questions are a burden unto others, answers are a prison for oneself." - The Prisoner

    Hmm.. does that make John Waters No. 2?:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    I think he's trying to say that moves to remove the religious influence (or at least it's essence - which he doesn't describe) in schools will leave children as nihilist husks with no feeling of purpose.

    On top of this I believe that he's trying to say that this goal has 'sinister' undertones. My personal intrepretation is that he is suggesting that 'the state' wants children all to itself so that they might be indoctrinated as unquestioning 'statists'.

    If he did mean this then why didn't he just say it that way?

    But that's expecting him to write clearly - he usually writes in a rather obfuscated manner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭ The Mad Hatter


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    How can anyone take the guy seriously? Remember he wrote the eurovision song for Ireland. He was on every radio show going on about what an amazing song it was.
    It finished last. Would have got zero points after every country voted only the last country gave us a few points!

    The guy is a joke of a journalist with a seriously over inflated opinion of himself. He's a poor mans Kevin Myres at trolling.

    I think the main difference between him and Myers is that Waters really seems to believe his own shit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,092 CiaranMT


    All I'll say on John Waters is, thank f*ck he's posing nude, writing awful songs, and spouting claptrap, and that he doesn't have a role to play in deciding legislation in this country.

    Himself and David Quinn wwwrrrrreck my head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ CerebralCortex


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    All I'll say on John Waters is, thank f*ck he's posing nude, writing awful songs, and spouting claptrap, and that he doesn't have a role to play in deciding legislation in this country.

    Himself and David Quinn wwwrrrrreck my head.

    I'd love 5 minutes in a ring with both of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭ mikhail


    tawnyowl wrote: »
    Translating John Waters? I'm not entirely sure if different people reading some of his columns would agree on the meaning.

    His mention of Orwell was ironic - perhaps he hasn't read Animal Farm?
    I can't recall the anti-religious sentiments in Animal Farm you're referring to, but it's been a while since I read it. Orwell himself was an Anglican, though his writing is often critical of religion. It seems his beliefs wavered without his ever really rejecting religion. Perhaps, as with socialism, he admired the sentiments and criticised the hypocritical practices.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭ tawnyowl


    mikhail wrote: »
    I can't recall the anti-religious sentiments in Animal Farm you're referring to, but it's been a while since I read it. Orwell himself was an Anglican, though his writing is often critical of religion. It seems his beliefs wavered without his ever really rejecting religion. Perhaps, as with socialism, he admired the sentiments and criticised the hypocritical practices.
    He parodied the Russian Orthodox Church with Moses the Raven, who told the animals of a wonderful place called Sugarcandy Mountain where hardworking animals go when they die.

    He was also critical of the CoE, though he was married in it and took communion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 sensibleken


    At least he brings balance to a debate by bringing an unbalanced mind to a balanced paper

    at least they got rid of Mark Stein and that Krauthammer guy. My daily rage fit at right wing lunatics now takes place in the politics forum


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    Waters isn't the only one who's spent too long using his head to bang the religious drums. Last Tuesday, One James Mackey produced the following:
    RITE AND REASON: THE IRISH Times of June 4th last reported the contributions to the World Atheist Convention of noted international theologian and evangelist of atheism, Richard Dawkins, together with that of our recently self-outed atheist Senator Ivana Bacik.

    Dawkins a theologian? Certainly so; the term “theology” was coined long ago by Greek philosophers in order to identify that part of philosophy that consists in reasoning about gods; so that those who reason there is no god are as much theologians as those who reason there is one.

    Furthermore, when Christians made their entry on the stage of history, and wanted to produce a philosophical support for their theistic belief as recorded in their Bible, they borrowed pre-Christian Greek philosophy for the purpose. They saw little or no difference between their god and the dominant god of the most advanced version of Greek religion. “Change a few phrases,” said St Augustine, “and they [the Platonists] might be Christians.” So Dawkins is a theologian.

    Bacik, however, does not appear to want to be bothered about providing reasons for her atheism at all. She prefers to rely on the direct dogmatic route to the cavalier and surely thoughtless assertion that in our “remarkable times, all our gods have crumbled, [as] sacred texts, infallible truths, have been exposed as shams”.

    Yet if she had tried to acquaint herself with theology, and if she had managed to modify just a little her crass dismissal of all sacred texts as mere shams, she might have learned something about the existence of gods. Namely, that humanity at all times has been capable of creating gods in its own image.

    And these created gods are real gods, for they quickly reveal the power of taking over and ruling the lives of those who create them. They are more than capable of directing these lives as whimsically to wellbeing as to the devastating destruction of Homo sapiens, habitat and all.

    Bacik stumbles on traces of the principal deity of this age-old man-made pantheon, when she talks about being “struck by the comparison between the unquestioning deference shown to bankers with that shown to religious authority”.

    For investment bankers are the high priests of Mammon whose very raison d’etre is the increase and increase of Mammon at whatever cost to human life and habitat. That lesson of reigning man-made gods, and the havoc they wreak on their very own creators, is taught by the prophet from Nazareth, who clearly identified Mammon as the principal rival to the God he knew as our common father.

    And if we Irish have not learned that lesson from our present predicament, we never will; and we will pay the price. We are already noticing the promised punishments that attach to the very suggestion of disobeying some of Mammon’s rules as laid down by the “Vatican” of the International Monetary Fund.

    So, despite Bacik’s praise of atheism as “profoundly moral” in itself, and unquestionably a source of “respect for others’ beliefs, combining reason and compassion”, there is too much evidence of declared atheism hiding malignant man-made theisms under its inviting cloak.

    As of Dawkins-type attacks and outright persecution of religions by atheistic humanist regimes that can rival the apparently unending and mutual persecution of each other by faiths such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Each can be as bad as the next.
    To which Ms Bacik replied:
    Sir, – I am flattered that James Mackey (Rite and Reason, July 5th) has devoted almost a full column to disparaging my recent speech to the World Atheist Convention. However, his critique is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. If he had bothered to read my speech in full, or if he had bothered to attend the conference, he would have known that I said: “Over the last three years, all our gods have been crumbling – the sacred texts that declared Fianna Fáil to be the natural and imprescriptible party of eternal government; the high priests of economic punditry who assured us that the economy was sound and that there would be no property crash just a ‘soft landing’; the infallible oracles who promised – indeed swore to us on holy texts – that the bank bailout would be the cheapest in history and that the IMF were not just about to come in – all of these have now been exposed as shams.”

    As everyone in the audience understood, I was speaking about the collapse of the Irish economy – and the “sacred texts” of neo-liberal economics. But clearly the subtlety and irony of my argument was lost on Mr Mackey. –

    Yours, etc,

    IVANA BACIK,
    Seanad Éireann,
    Leinster House, Dublin 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,610 ArtSmart


    Well roughly translated it means John hasnt had any serious action since Sinead and it consequently losing his sanity - at an even faster rate than anticipated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,610 ArtSmart


    I think the main difference between him and Myers is that Waters really seems to believe his own shit.
    I only wish that were true.

    Water went AWOL quite a while ago, ever since he realised that Fintan O'toole was the main man and the Sinead split wasnt enough currency (his insane 'single dad' articles) He's being hoping to dazzle and delude the plain people of ireland, ever since.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,747 Galvasean


    Waters reminds me of yer man from Republic of Loose
    republic-of-loose-1_thumb.jpg&sa=X&ei=WUIWTr2MCoS3hAeB1dyODQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGZS_f1CJdePVj8IeMTxkJ5cpxaZw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,895 Dave!


    He reminds me of yer man from Star Wars

    chewbacca.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,212 fatmammycat


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    All I'll say on John Waters is, thank f*ck he's posing nude, writing awful songs, and spouting claptrap, and that he doesn't have a role to play in deciding legislation in this country.

    Himself and David Quinn wwwrrrrreck my head.

    David Quinn- argh, so annoying. He likes to proclaim things, but when asked to back them up runs away as fast as his ultra Catholic legs can carry him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,970 Sarky


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Remember he wrote the eurovision song for Ireland.

    That song drained more imagination and humanity out of people than any amount of baby-eating secularism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭ goose2005


    Speakin of Orwell, I'm always reminded of "duckspeak" when Waters writes.

    Also, didn't he fornicate with, and have a bastard with, noted heretic Sinead O'Connor? Seems that his Catholic education didn't help him.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 sensibleken


    Yet if she had tried to acquaint herself with theology, and if she had managed to modify just a little her crass dismissal of all sacred texts as mere shams, she might have learned something about the existence of gods. Namely, that humanity at all times has been capable of creating gods in its own image.

    And these created gods are real gods, for they quickly reveal the power of taking over and ruling the lives of those who create them. They are more than capable of directing these lives as whimsically to wellbeing as to the devastating destruction of Homo sapiens, habitat and all.


    wait. Isnt this an arguement against the existence of god?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭ Nodin


    Dave! wrote: »
    He reminds me of yer man from Star Wars

    chewbacca.jpg

    I'd say Chewie would be a better writer though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,152 Malari


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd say Chewie would be a better writer though.

    He certainly makes more sense when he speaks.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    How can anyone take the guy seriously? Remember he wrote the eurovision song for Ireland.
    does no-one remember the katy french article?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Properly understood, religion enables the opening up of the child’s natural understanding of his/her own structure and relationship with the totality of reality. True education involves the proffering of a tradition in its entirety, together with the freedom to interrogate it. Its fundamental objective is not the “inculcation” of anything, still less the indoctrination of values or beliefs. That Irish Catholicism has tended to misunderstand the meaning of the word “freedom” is insufficient reason to replace a stunted form of propaganda with an outrightly sinister one.
    Chewbacca wrote:
    Arrrrrrgghh aaaaaarrrggggggghhhhh aarrrrrrrrhhh awwwwwwwwrrrr argggh arrrhhhhh.
    Well I know which one makes more sense to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 fontanalis


    Transubstantiation, now there some reality!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,092 CiaranMT


    does no-one remember the katy french article?

    Link please? I'm intrigued.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    it'd be paywalled now. it was the most insanely funny yet tragic article in irish newspaper history where john waters wrote a eulogy for katy french as a symbol of ireland, where he claims to have cried while writing the article.

    it would have been deemed too absurd if chris morris wrote it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    aha!
    Dreams die with death of Katy

    John Waters

    The last time I was on the Late Late (before my current flirtation with an icy demise) was six months ago, that early summer night when Eoghan Harris, Eamon Dunphy and myself fought over the mind and meaning of Bertie, and Harris nudged history a little off course, writes John Waters

    Sinead O'Connor sang I Don't Know How to Love Him as only she can sing. Dunphy and I had a bet on air that Harris helped me win, and Katy French flirted for charity with a python, some maggots and miscellaneous unthinkables as only Katy could flirt.

    I was drawn to her afterwards. We shook hands, said hello and she was gone. It was to be the only time we would meet but it got her into my head. God, she was beautiful. I don't mean just physically.
    She had a beauty that suggested itself as emanating from an infinity within. She seemed to believe anything was possible and her smile convinced you, for an instant, that she was right. I wanted her dreams to come true.

    She was a child. She was my daughter and Eoghan's daughter and Eamon's daughter and Pat's daughter and Bertie's daughter. She was your daughter, your little sister. She was a child of Ireland in the time of its rebirth.

    I am crying, writing this. How can you cry for someone you've only once said hello to? Katy was the daughter of our dreams, in the sense that it was the dreams of her people that gave birth to what is tritely called her celebrity. We have these words to box off the lucky/unlucky ones who act out our fantasies, while we stick safely to the grandstand. We refer to them as celebs, implying a different species. But they are human beings, filled like the rest of us with desire, distinguished only by willingness/ opportunity to rush in where others fear to tread.

    The old saw has it wrong: those who volunteer to act out our fantasies in public are both fools and angels. Driven by longing beyond knowing, their folly arises from a failure of awareness, experience, wisdom.

    Driven by angelic recall, they plod on clay feet into the mire of three-dimensional reality. They do not know, are not conscious, that their appetites are infinitely greater than the world's capacity to satisfy them.

    Katy French was a personification of our fantasies, of our sense of what we were becoming, of how we might unfold ourselves. She was not the only one, but in the immediate past was perhaps the most spectacular light on the skyline, a meteorite of desire plummeting through the Irish zeitgeist. You may dismiss it as frivolity but only, with respect, if you think in cliches and fixate on the superficial. For most of us, it is not wisdom that keeps us from danger, but lack of opportunity, or fear, or a deadly piety posing as virtue. Katy had found a way of being that promised her it could slake all her human cravings. She had manoeuvred herself into a position where everything humanly desirable seemed to be within reach, and was careering forward on the path opening up in front of her.

    She did not, other than literally, die of whatever it will say on her death certificate. She died of desire, of being utterly human.
    What can I say? The dream is over.

    As for lessons, I don't know. In the past decade, we have, most of us, conducted searches for meaning in places previously inaccessible to us. We acquired means and freedom beyond our wildest.

    We knew that money couldn't buy us love, but still gave it a shot. We sensed that freedom is a complicated word, but tried to keep it simple. Be, for tomorrow we die.

    As Pope Benedict reminds us in his new encyclical, we have no idea what we would really like. "We do not know this reality at all; even in those moments when we think we can reach out and touch it, it eludes us." All we know is that it is not what we have.

    God is a concept by which we measure our longings.

    I'll say it again.

    God is a concept by which we measure our longings.

    As Katy did not comprehend the limits of her human capacity to pursue her angelic yearnings, neither, anymore, do the rest of us. If we did, she might be alive. Our culture left her struggling for life, because we have neglected to keep it alive with the knowledge of what it means to be human.

    Katy's death was the result not just of her foolishness, but of our collective helplessness. We do not know what to say to our children as we kiss their brows before allowing them into a world utterly, terribly changed, because that is what we desired. We do not understand the meaning of freedom.

    And so, dear friends, we'll just have to think it up all over again. The dream is over. Our daughter Katy is dead. And so too, and not by the way, are our sons Kevin Doyle and John Grey. The dream is over.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭ Nodin


    He was tagged as "some journo" in my small brain, until the article where he announced that his friend the nuclear physicist believed in God 'so take that' etc. Now its "another eejit".


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