The Circus

Forest Master

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

I think the ones that have animals are disgusting. Keeping all of these animals locked up in horrible conditions and whipped into doing tricks is absolutely vile.

I also wonder how it's actually legal to keep these animals? Surely you need a permit? Why is this still allowed? I guarantee if I wanted to keep a Lion in my garden, Fingal Coco would be all over me - no chance. So why are these scumbag inbred clowns (pun intended) allowed to keep dozens of large African animals in cages and transport them around the country in trucks to perform? The govt enforces leash laws yet this sh*t is still acceptable? WTF?

I'd never take my kids to see this.

:mad:

Edit: link here to some protests:
http://www.widget.demotix.com/news/52774/more-animals-ever-protest
http://www.vegaplanet.org/?p=551

The best circus i ever went to as a kid was the one with no animals in it

deisedave

Forest Master wrote: »

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

I think the ones that have animals are disgusting. Keeping all of these animals locked up in horrible conditions and whipped into doing tricks is absolutely vile.

I also wonder how it's actually legal to keep these animals? Surely you need a permit? Why is this still allowed? I guarantee if I wanted to keep a Lion in my garden, Fingal Coco would be all over me - no chance. So why are these scumbag inbred clowns (pun intended) allowed to keep dozens of large African animals in cages and transport them around the country in trucks to perform? The govt enforces leash laws yet this sh*t is still acceptable? WTF?

I'd never take my kids to see this.

:mad:

Ah but there so cute

























It is very cruel in fairness

pressed enter to much by mistake and cant figure out how to undo it. sorry peeps

Nodin

Forest Master wrote: »

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

Its an awful thing to say about Clontarf allright. Mulhuddart fair enough, but not Clontarf.

robman60

I've never been to the circus, but it's as if I have an inherent hatred for it and all it stands for. When I think of circus things like "rip-off, animal abuse, and ****ty food" come straight to mind.

Guill

You'll make the animals sad, there will be no-one to rub them down!

im invisible

"It's a circus Joe, an absolute Circus..."

looksee

I have no real problems with domestic animals like horses and dogs in a circus (I think the 'whipped into doing tricks' is a bit over the top) but otherwise I have no time for wild animals being used in circuses and hauled all over the country. I have always refused to go to circuses with animals, though I have been to 'people' circuses, like the chinese ones.

I haven't a great deal of time for zoos either, though I understand that they have saved animals from extinction.

Forest Master

Seems there's a protest on Saturday.

http://www.naracampaigns.org/

I'm there.

cml387

Never mind the animals,it's the clowns.They're scary.

Princess Peach

The circus makes me so sad.

I don't have issues with zoos as long as they are well run and the animals properly treated and taken care for, I read a book about zoos once to put my mind to rest!

But this is never possible with a travelling circus. Went to one when I was young and made me sad. I often pass by when the circus is in town and see the animals tied up behind the tent There definitely needs to be better regulation of these!

Went to a Chinese circus once, it was brilliant! Just beautiful acrobats, and jugglers and the likes.

Ally Dick

I always loved the circus as a child. I can see the cruelty aspect to it now though. Those poor animals have no life

EverEvolving

Forest Master wrote: »

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

You might want to get that seen to before you save the animals.

I do agree it's pretty terrible the way they are contained, they spend the majority of their lives traveling in cages that are too small for them and only get treated properly when they preform.

TheZohanS

Omfgd this circus has to be stopped!!!!!

Lets all boycott it. Hopefully then Duffy's will learn their lesson and have all the animals put down.

When we've closed down Duffy's lets head down the country, I saw COWS and SHEEP on a focking form, omfgd!!!

When will the cruelty end? :mad:

January

Nodin wrote: »

Its an awful thing to say about Clontarf allright. Mulhuddart fair enough, but not Clontarf.

Keep your opinions to yourself buddy, Mulhuddart is fine to live in.

Forest Master

TheZohan wrote: »

Omfgd this circus has to be stopped!!!!!

Lets all boycott it. Hopefully then Duffy's will learn their lesson and have all the animals put down.

When we've closed down Duffy's lets head down the country, I saw COWS and SHEEP on a focking form, omfgd!!!

When will the cruelty end? :mad:

Awesome sarcasm. Pity you can't actually dictate a real point.

Micky Dolenz

I love animals, I eat them every day.

Forest Master

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I love animals, I eat them every day.

Nobody has ever made that gag before, Micky - you're the first one.

easyeason3

I honestly don't see the attraction in going to a circus to see animals do tricks. It's cruel & stupid really.

If you want to see exotic animals take yourself down to Fota wildlife park. I have always enjoyed it & have yet to come away out of it with an uneasy, guilty feeling. Of course you could say that keeping wild animals in enclosed spaces is cruel whether it's a cage or an acre but Fota is definately the lesser of two evils.

And if you want entertainment those little monkey type creatures are always great craic for stealing food.

padd b1975

Forest Master wrote: »

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

I think the ones that have animals are disgusting. Keeping all of these animals locked up in horrible conditions and whipped into doing tricks is absolutely vile.

I also wonder how it's actually legal to keep these animals? Surely you need a permit? Why is this still allowed? I guarantee if I wanted to keep a Lion in my garden, Fingal Coco would be all over me - no chance. So why are these scumbag inbred clowns (pun intended) allowed to keep dozens of large African animals in cages and transport them around the country in trucks to perform? The govt enforces leash laws yet this sh*t is still acceptable? WTF?

I'd never take my kids to see this.

:mad:

Edit: link here to some protests:
http://www.widget.demotix.com/news/52774/more-animals-ever-protest
http://www.vegaplanet.org/?p=551

Is that Fingal Coco the clown you speak of??

Solnskaya

went to duffys circus with the kids last week, and the human performers were very good-clapped away goodo for them. Refused to clap when any animal acts came on-I'd never been to the circus before and didn't give it much thought beforehand, but no, the animal acts are just a bag of sh1te- feckin tigers belong in the jungle, eating things, not prancing around on a barrel. Personally wanted to give the white haired auld bollox cracking the whip a good smack in the head and have him leap about, see how he gets on. Chinese acrobats were very good though.:) All the Lamas and horses looked like they were cakking it, I'd say they get a good flittering to keep them in line. Not good.

Micky Dolenz

Forest Master wrote: »

Nobody has ever made that gag before, Micky - you're the first one.

I thought you were busy saving the animals, or do you feel better now that you have a good ould moan on the interweb?

Forest Master

Solnskaya wrote: »

went to duffys circus with the kids last week, and the human performers were very good-clapped away goodo for them. Refused to clap when any animal acts came on

Way to put the foot down. You're part of the problem.

BEASTERLY

Forest Master wrote: »

So, what's everyone's opinion on this? I drove by Duffy's today in Clontarf (Dublin) and saw a big sign that said "More animals than ever" and it made my blood boil.

I think the ones that have animals are disgusting. Keeping all of these animals locked up in horrible conditions and whipped into doing tricks is absolutely vile.

I also wonder how it's actually legal to keep these animals? Surely you need a permit? Why is this still allowed? I guarantee if I wanted to keep a Lion in my garden, Fingal Coco would be all over me - no chance. So why are these scumbag inbred clowns (pun intended) allowed to keep dozens of large African animals in cages and transport them around the country in trucks to perform? The govt enforces leash laws yet this sh*t is still acceptable? WTF?

I'd never take my kids to see this.

:mad:

Edit: link here to some protests:
http://www.widget.demotix.com/news/52774/more-animals-ever-protest
http://www.vegaplanet.org/?p=551

:rolleyes:

Fookin lefties...

g'em

Princess Peach wrote: »

I don't have issues with zoos as long as they are well run and the animals properly treated and taken care for, I read a book about zoos once to put my mind to rest!

The Life of Pi?

Forest Master

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I thought you were busy saving the animals, or do you feel better now that you have a good ould moan on the interweb?

That doesn't even make sense. How did you think I was busy saving animals when I'm clearly posting in this thread? Or is is just a feeble sarcastic point about how I'm "moaning on the interweb" and not actually acting? Another great post. Nobody has ever called someone a keyboard warrior before - you're the first one!
Do you have any more cool catch-phrases? What about "in soviet Russia, sandwich eats you?" Or "won't somebody think of the children" - they're all original too - you should add them to your amazing repertoire of slick replies.

Micky Dolenz

Forest Master wrote: »

That doesn't even make sense. How did you think I was busy saving animals when I'm clearly posting in this thread? Or is is just a feeble sarcastic point about how I'm "moaning on the interweb" and not actually acting? Another great post. Nobody has ever called someone a keyboard warrior before - you're the first one!
Do you have any more cool catch-phrases? What about "in soviet Russia, sandwich eats you?" Or "won't somebody think of the children" - they're all original too - you should add them to your amazing repertoire of slick replies.

What about this one?

*Brings out clown doll*

Where did the bad circus performer touch you?

Forest Master

It's actually shocking how glib some people are about animals living in cages & being beaten. Unbelievable...

Princess Peach

g'em wrote: »

The Life of Pi?

That was the first one I read! But I didn't really trust it cause it is a fiction novel. So I read one called Ethics of the Ark, its by a few authors. Gives a very fair view from all sides!

I love animals!

Mr. Denton

Might as well shut them all down if they can't have their lions, and tigers and bears oh my! It's not a circus without animals no matter how famous.

For instance, I went to Oxford Circus once, no animals, just loads of cars and people shopping and taking photos. It was rubbish. :mad:

g'em

I'm not a massive fan of circuses, but it really does depend on the living conditions that the animals have in any given company. People have this idea that living wild automatically = better when that's really not necessarily the case.

Solnskaya wrote: »

feckin tigers belong in the jungle, eating things, not prancing around on a barrel.

There's an argument that all that training is providing great exercise and stimulation for the animals though. Sociologically and behaviourally they're benefitting from a reward system (Master and animal) and just because they're fed their food it doesn't make it any less nutritious. If anything the fact they're fed so regularly means that starvation is a pressure they'll never worry about.

Solnskaya wrote:

All the Lamas and horses looked like they were cakking it, I'd say they get a good flittering to keep them in line. Not good.

llamas are naturally incredibly nervy animals, even in natural conditions. Horses can be too, it's very personality and breed dependant. That's not to say that the animals you saw definitely weren't being mistreated, just that we tend to overly anthropomorphise animal behaviours and mistake it for ill-treatment when actually it's part of their temperament.

Nodin

padd b1975 wrote: »

Is that Fingal Coco the clown you speak of??

Fingal "fingers" Coco?

g'em

Princess Peach wrote: »

That was the first one I read! But I didn't really trust it cause it is a fiction novel. So I read one called Ethics of the Ark, its by a few authors. Gives a very fair view from all sides!

Agreed on both counts The Life of Pi does reference some genuine works on the topic but it's more than a little emotive given the nature of the book.

g'em

Forest Master wrote: »

It's actually shocking how glib some people are about animals living in cages & being beaten. Unbelievable...

How do you know they're being beaten? Being controlled with a whip does not equate to being tortured. And again, living in a cage - size dependent, isn't the life of hell that it's made out to be when you're getting fed, housed, looked after, getting regular medical attention and have full control over your own "territory". Believe it or not those enclosures are actually hugely comforting to a lot of animals.

I saw it myself last week - a macaw escaped from its enclosure and we had knicker fits of fear that one of the sanctuary's prized breeding birds had vamoosed. But it had a quick flutter around and within hours had come back and was sitting on the enclosure door waiting to get let back in. There's a lot to be said for safety and comfort and free food every day

Forest Master

g'em wrote: »

Forest Master wrote: »

It's actually shocking how glib some people are about animals living in cages & being beaten. Unbelievable...

How do you know they're being beaten? Being controlled with a whip does not equate to being tortured. And again, living in a cage - size dependent, isn't the life of hell that it's made out to be when you're getting fed, housed, looked after, getting regular medical attention and have full control over your own "territory". Believe it or not those enclosures are actually hugely comforting to a lot of animals.

I saw it myself last week - a macaw escaped from its enclosure and we had knicker fits of fear that one of the sanctuary's prized breeding birds had vamoosed. But it had a quick flutter around and within hours had come back and was sitting on the enclosure door waiting to get let back in. There's a lot to be said for safety and comfort and free food every day

Are you delusional, or is your surname Duffy?
If I buy a cage & provide food & medical attention, will you live in it?
Crap analogy about the macaw, BTW - it knows no different at this stage. Try putting that cage up to a macaw in the jungle & see if he hops in - that's the real test.
By your logic, if the lion tamer can get the lion to shake his hand, that means they're good mates & the lion must be happy living there.

Wolfe Tone

I like circuses with animals Best bit imo.

staker

It's the smoking ban all over again.
Time was I could easily fart in public and get away with it,take away all the animals from the ring and even the clowns'll stop smiling..:(

Forest Master

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I like circuses with animals Best bit imo.

Trolling is a fine art and goes hand in hand with subtlety - this is where you fail.

g'em

Forest Master wrote: »

Are you delusional, or is your surname Duffy?

A little delusional after travelling solidly for the last 36 hours but otherwise in full mental capacity thanks. Just because I don't share your views you don't need to go down that route y'know

Foster Master wrote:

If I buy a cage & provide food & medical attention, will you live in it?

We're non-equatable, that argument falls flat on its face. I'm not talking about keeping animals in horrific conditions, I'm talking about keeping animals in enclosures, with enrichments, being well cared for, taken care of, where they are free from predatory and disease stresses. these are elements of the "wild" that people don't really consider when they get up in arms about animals in captivity.

Foster Master wrote:

Crap analogy about the macaw, BTW - it knows no different at this stage. Try putting that cage up to a macaw in the jungle & see if he hops in - that's a real test.

It's not a crap analogy at all. You made a comment about people being glib about animals being in cages, I'm merely pointing out that it's not as hellish as it's made out to be. Just because it knows no better how does that make its life any less fulfilling? It has all of the requirements it needs from the wild without having to worry about the pressures. It's not like a macaw is sitting there longing for a life on the outside. It's fed, it's watered, it shows how happy it is by breeding succesfully, where's the big problem?

WindSock

I can't see how they would be popular today, I can imagine there was a huge draw back in the day before tv and people had never seen these exotic beasts.

g'em

Forest Master wrote: »

By your logic, if the lion tamer can get the lion to shake his hand, that means they're good mates & the lion must be happy living there.

Nope, that's not my logic at all, I don't see those words in any of my posts But a lion will respond to a hierarchical society, and that's what a ringmaster provides them with. Like I said at the very beginning - I'm not very keen on circuses personally, I simply made the point that it's possible to argue that it's providing them with enrichment. Careful with all those words you're incorrectly putting in my mouth

Wolfe Tone

Forest Master wrote: »

Trolling is a fine art and goes hand in hand with subtlety - this is where you fail.

I'm no troll, I like to see exotic animals preform tricks etc, just like humans have for thousands of years

looksee

Could you consider keeping a pet cat in a cage all day? And they are domesticated animals. I don't even like the idea of 'indoor cats' my cats love to get outside and hunt bugs in the garden.

Aoifey!

I love circuses but hate the way some animals are treated in them. I always loved the rest of the show, but the second they bring out those animals to do tricks I just want to leave. I was at one circus a few years back, can't remember which one, and the you could see the poor horses were starving and miserable

g'em

looksee wrote: »

Could you consider keeping a pet cat in a cage all day? And they are domesticated animals. I don't even like the idea of 'indoor cats' my cats love to get outside and hunt bugs in the garden.

In a teeny tiny cage? No, of course not, but have I not said that already or do I need to reiterate that a gazillion times on the thread? I'm equating cages with large enclosures though, which is probably a misrepresentation of the term where circuses are concerned because they wouldn't have that space.

And I wouldn't have a pet cat. Dreadful creatures :pac: But if I had a dog I'd keep it in a large garden, that's the same as a large enclosure isn't it? And before anyone starts talking about how dogs need walking every day, yes, some do. But animals like lions spend ~20 hrs a day sleeping and actually move around very very little so, again, unequivocal.

Solnskaya

Forest Master wrote: »

Way to put the foot down. You're part of the problem.

you're right, I should've shot the basturd.:rolleyes:
I would've, but I had five kids with me, not all of them mine, and while my kids are used to having a mad da, the others would've been distressed. What exactly should I have done? Left?? The kids would've killed ME.

Kevin Duffy

Forest Master wrote: »

Are you delusional, or is your surname Duffy?

Ahem.

Absurdum

Before we all fry our brains trying to come up with witty replies, it's worth noting that the Arts Council help fund these circuses (edit: not all circuses use animals) and their inherent abuse of animals; that is, taxpayers' money is helping to keep these people around.

Last year, Duffy's received a handout of €60,000.





http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1218/arts.html

Sticky_Fingers

Sigh, won't someone think of the poor lickle animals:(. Personally I have no problems with a circus using animals as long as they are well cared for. They are livestock, nothing more nothing less, this is what they were bred to do. Would many of you complain* about the treatment racehorses receive (how awful the little man is hitting the poor horsey with a whip) or being forced to drag carts around.

A well run circus looks after their animals and ensures that they are well fed and contented, to do otherwise would lead to a sickly animal that is more difficult and dangerous to work with.

*Noting that this is the internet and there are likely to be a few PETAesque animal rights window lickers on here

Absurdum

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Sigh, won't someone think of the poor lickle animals:(. Personally I have no problems with a circus using animals as long as they are well cared for.

define "well cared for"

They are livestock, nothing more nothing less, this is what they were bred to do.

No, they are sentient beings, they don't belong in a tent on the side of the road in Dublin. Animal circuses have been banned in several countries already. As usual when it comes to animal welfare, we are living in the dark ages.

Would many of you complain* about the treatment racehorses receive (how awful the little man is hitting the poor horsey with a whip) or being forced to drag carts around.

I do

A well run circus looks after their animals and ensures that they are well fed and contented, to do otherwise would lead to a sickly animal that is more difficult and dangerous to work with.

an animal living in a cage being transported around Ireland and beyond for the amusement of a few people cannot be content

*Noting that this is the internet and there are likely to be a few PETAesque animal rights window lickers on here

:rolleyes:

Sticky_Fingers

Absurdum wrote: »

define "well cared for"

Well fed, well exercised with all health concerns taken care of.

Absurdum wrote: »

No, they are sentient beings, they don't belong in a tent on the side of the road in Dublin. Animal circuses have been banned in several countries already. As usual when it comes to animal welfare, we are living in the dark ages.

They are no more sentient than pigs/cows/sheep bred for slaughter. They are no more sentient than the multitudes of draft animals used throughout the world. They are livestock, not pets nor noble beasts that should be allowed to roam free since most would not be capable of looking after themselves in the wild. If all circuses were shut down tomorrow most of the animals would simply be put down they would not be released to live the "Born Free" wet dream many animal rights activists envisage.

Absurdum wrote: »

I do

Your username is very apt.

Absurdum wrote: »

an animal living in a cage being transported around Ireland and beyond for the amusement of a few people cannot be content

I wasn't aware that you could communicate with animals, that's one of a hell of a skill you have. Tell me is it full blown Doctor Doolittle communication or are you a more of a horse whisperer type? Well it's either one or the other or else you are anthropomorphising the whole issue by erroneously assuming that an animals needs and wants are analogous to your own.