What Armies can you join being Irish?

Manic Moran

[Mod]

Oh, hell no.

No warnings on this one, I'm going to go straight with the banhammer for the next offence.

The thread question is purely an objective one. What armies can one join. The question was not 'what armies do you approve joining', not 'what armies should I join' (though I will accept a discussion on pay, benefits etc), and not 'what armies can joining it cause offence to political sensibilities'.

Keep the discussion empirical. Discussion of cannon fodder perceptions or how the nasty Mexicans abused the St Patrick's Brigade by placing them against the US Marines (or whatever) are out of place here.

Alles Klaar?
[/Mod]

NTM

mattjack

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Mod]

Oh, hell no.

No warnings on this one, I'm going to go straight with the banhammer for the next offence.

The thread question is purely an objective one. What armies can one join. The question was not 'what armies do you approve joining', not 'what armies should I join' (though I will accept a discussion on pay, benefits etc), and not 'what armies can joining it cause offence to political sensibilities'.

Keep the discussion empirical. Discussion of cannon fodder perceptions or how the nasty Mexicans abused the St Patrick's Brigade by placing them against the US Marines (or whatever) are out of place here.

Alles Klaar?
[/Mod]

NTM

yessum....

SamuelFox

If you are interested in joining the British forces get onto Belfast and they will set you straight. In my experience the Army is best – it is the biggest, has year round recruiting for Officers and there is no career path in the Royal Navy or RAF that you can’t also follow in the Army – fast jets, big boats and submarines aside.

The residency requirement of 5 years is the same for all services, but the Army habitually waive it for people living in the South. The Navy are less inclined to do this and the RAF absolutlely won’t. Additionally, if you have been travelling for more than 3 months outside Ireland this will be a problem, so you need to discuss it in Belfast.

As regards anti-Irish discrimination, HM Forces consist of about 400,000 regulars and reserves, drawn from all walks of life and all personality types. There is total intolerance for bigotry of any form, and you will be expected to muck in with whoever you find yourself with. You will equally meet some Neanderthals who will take any excuse to have a go, and you may find that your nationality is the easiest target. Such is life. What you won’t find is any kind of organised or widespread racial discrimination- the army is too diverse for that.

If you are seriously thinking about joining up, do it now. My only regret is the time in my early 20s that I wasted. Get the number in Belfast, give them a ring and see what you think after you’ve met them.

pablomakaveli

SamuelFox wrote: »

The residency requirement of 5 years is the same for all services, but the Army habitually waive it for people living in the South.

I'm not sure if this is the case anymore. My recruitment officer rang me last week and told me my three job choices are now unavailable to me because they all require security clearance so i have to pick another three. He said i could re-train in 5 years if i wanted but that i can't do them now.

SamuelFox

That's possible - they change things very frequently. Do you mind me asking what the choices were?

Your security clearance should not really be affected by residency - the links between the Guards and the DVA over here are good - I'm surprised that its now an issue for you.

If you are dead set on one of those choices maybe you could join anyway and transfer later? Its generally not a big deal to do so.

mattjack

spoonface wrote: »

I hate to ask the obvious question, but why would you want to fight and kill or die for a country that is not even your own?

read post 51

pablomakaveli

SamuelFox wrote: »

That's possible - they change things very frequently. Do you mind me asking what the choices were?

Your security clearance should not really be affected by residency - the links between the Guards and the DVA over here are good - I'm surprised that its now an issue for you.

If you are dead set on one of those choices maybe you could join anyway and transfer later? Its generally not a big deal to do so.

Electronics technician, Installation technician and Armourer.

He said the electonics one isnt possible because they will be getting Apaches which means security clearance will be required. I presume its the same with the Armourer job. The Installation tech is with the Royal Signals and he said all Royal Signal jobs are closed off as well.

Ill still pick 3 other jobs and join anyway. But it is annoying because i had picked those original jobs back in February and had learned all the info i needed to know about them for the interview and icebreakers.

SamuelFox

That's a pity. Chat to your recruiter and see - if you go through basic with another trade (all recruit training is the Common Military Syllabus) you may be able to transfer later, particularly if you get the support of your CO. I was told in RMAS that my desired Choice of Arm was out of the question at the beginning, but after a few months in the system they made an exception and I commissioned in there. Admittedly it wasn't a problem with my nationality, but I've never heard of a prohibition in the Army that hasn't some loophole! Good luck with it!

pablomakaveli

SamuelFox wrote: »

That's a pity. Chat to your recruiter and see - if you go through basic with another trade (all recruit training is the Common Military Syllabus) you may be able to transfer later, particularly if you get the support of your CO. I was told in RMAS that my desired Choice of Arm was out of the question at the beginning, but after a few months in the system they made an exception and I commissioned in there. Admittedly it wasn't a problem with my nationality, but I've never heard of a prohibition in the Army that hasn't some loophole! Good luck with it!

Well i've a degree in Electronic Engineering so hopefully they might decide i'd be more useful as an electronics technician and make an exception but ill still be happy to go with another job and maybe transfer a few years down the line.

Agent Larkin

Donny5 wrote: »

That's not true at all. There's a load of them. You can't work on submarines

My Uncle was on the Royal Navy submarines and he's Irish.

Donny5

Agent Larkin wrote: »

My Uncle was on the Royal Navy submarines and he's Irish.

Maybe so, but you can't now.

bunny shooter

Note to Mods and all BA recuiters here

AFAIK ........................

It is a criminal offence under the Republic’s Defence Act of 1954 to encourage a person to join a foreign army.

discus

SamuelFox wrote: »

but I've never heard of a prohibition in the Army that hasn't some loophole! Good luck with it!

I nearly ended up as an Ammo Tech, and I'm CP4 (lowest possible colour vision!). It seems that if they're looking for a type of person for a specific role, they'll make a route for you.

Manic Moran

A.Tomas wrote: »

Maybe they should try Stormfront.:D

That was easy. Banned for a week.

NTM

amen

degree in Electronic Engineering

out of curiosity if you have a degree why would you not try as an officer?

Manic Moran

gatecrash wrote: »

Bye Bunny.

In fairness, he is generally correct. (S312)

However, I wonder about the applicability of it, as S256 seems to say that you can't plug for the Irish Defence Forces either, unless you're actually authorised (in writing, in your personal possession) to do so. Which, I think, screws over every RDF open house ever held as well as any postings here suggesting that people join the Defence Forces.

S227 needs updating too. (allows the death penalty)

It may come down to a case of reasonable construction: Would a judge read the intent of the law as to cover actual recruiters, as opposed to general commentary? I do not know if there is any case history to reflect upon, I'll go ask the legal heads.

[Edit: Out of curiousity, is there anyone on here who actually is authorised by a foreign government to recruit people into that country's service?]

NTM

pablomakaveli

amen wrote: »

out of curiosity if you have a degree why would you not try as an officer?

I went for the Cadets in the DF last year and when i was up in the Curragh and two current cadets gave us a presentation on life as a cadet and officer. It didnt really appeal to me.

bunny shooter

gatecrash wrote: »

Bye Bunny.

Where are you going

Manic Moran wrote: »

In fairness, he is generally correct. (S312)................

Thank you

"312.—(1) It shall not be lawful for any person—

"(a) to induce, procure or persuade any person in the State to accept or agree to accept any commission or engagement in any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or

"(b) to print within the State or cause or procure to be printed within the State any notice or advertisement in relation to the procurement of personnel for any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or

"(c) to publish or cause or procure to be published within the State any such notice or advertisement as is mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection which is printed within the State.

"(2) Every person who acts in contravention of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

"(3) In this section— the expression “the Government” in relation to any other State includes any person exercising or assuming to exercise powers of Government in or over such State or any part thereof; the expression “military, naval or air force” does not include a voluntary aid society duly recognised and authorised for the purposes of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field signed at Geneva on the 12th day of August, 1949."

Manic Moran wrote: »

...................[Edit: Out of curiousity, is there anyone on here who actually is authorised by a foreign government to recruit people into that country's service?]

NTM

They're here alright :eek:

They have been stoped actively recruiting on other Irish forums :cool:

Sorry OP for derailing you're thread. I hope you get whatever it is you want

It wasn't me!

An insane piece of legislation if ever there were one. Love the idea that if I tell Joe Bloggs that he should join the British Army, I'm a criminal.

RMD

Someone who works in the army giving their opinion does not equal active international recruitment.

Manic Moran

It wasn't me! wrote: »

An insane piece of legislation if ever there were one. Love the idea that if I tell Joe Bloggs that he should join the British Army, I'm a criminal.

The lawyers are taking a look at it. Initial interpretation is that the legislation is to cover those who actually can recruit for foreign miliaries, not a broad prohibition on the free expression of speech. I hope to get something more definitive back in a day or two.

Do you have any evidence of that since you seem so sure?

Does it matter what happens on other boards?

NTM

pablomakaveli

Manic Moran wrote: »

Does it matter what happens on other boards?

NTM

He seems to be convinced that there are recruiters on Boards itself without providing evidence to back up his claim.

Zambia

Well considering as I look at this page google ads is telling me to Join the Aussie army....

Irish website , Irish person is the offence complete?

mattjack

pablomakaveli wrote: »

He seems to be convinced that there are recruiters on Boards itself without providing evidence to back up his claim.

"Ere you go son,two shillings three square meals a day...walk down to the nice Coporal on the left and line with all the other boys....."
:eek: shiite ,shiite I meant to PM ya......

Manic Moran

OK, closing this thread pending a mass deletion, and eventually a comment on the whole foreign recruiting business.

Manic Moran

Aaaand.. open again, one mass deletion later.

Bang on, the US consider it tantamount to treachery to serve in another nation's armed forces

I got away with being in the Irish defence forces...

Yes, it's frowned upon, but depending on the full circumstances it's not going to cost you your citizenship.

NTM

discus

No one has mentioned the PIRA, RIRA, Al Queda or Taliban yet!

pablomakaveli

discus wrote: »

No one has mentioned the PIRA, RIRA, Al Queda or Taliban yet!

Actually Al-Qaeda was mentioned.:pac:

SamuelFox

Just to clarify from my personal point of view – I’m just commenting on these threads and my observations are merely that – personal comments motivated by an interest in the military. I don’t have any authority or inclination to recruit, which is why I don’t answer any queries I get via PM or that sort of thing. Nobody is going to join the army based on something I post here.

Some regiments pay a bounty to ORs who successfully convince people to sign on. In my regiment it is limited to recruits from out traditional recruiting area and while cash was given in the past, now it is 4 or 5 extra day’s leave. Scheme does not apply to commissioned personnel.

mattjack

SamuelFox wrote: »

Just to clarify from my personal point of view – I’m just commenting on these threads and my observations are merely that – personal comments motivated by an interest in the military. I don’t have any authority or inclination to recruit, which is why I don’t answer any queries I get via PM or that sort of thing. Nobody is going to join the army based on something I post here.

Some regiments pay a bounty to ORs who successfully convince people to sign on. In my regiment it is limited to recruits from out traditional recruiting area and while cash was given in the past, now it is 4 or 5 extra day’s leave. Scheme does not apply to commissioned personnel.

hi SamuelFox... whats an OR please ?