Music Scene In Ireland

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PaulBrewer wrote: »

Royseven, I predict, will not be money makers !

Their sound is 5 years ago, if they had been around when The Killers were doing the business they might have had a chance.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

HMVs business is surviving - they've 2 year stay of execution.

If that involves selling beer you can be sure they will.

Or like Mccullough Pigott sell clothes.

I think HMV will think of something. There's always been money in music

Royseven, I predict, will not be money makers !

I think your prediction could come true - but there's no accounting for taste.

Nothing particularly new there - the development deal has been a mainstay of the industry for years.

Is it full production or just demos? Are bands locked up? Do they get a bean out of it? How much are they spending on these things?

I have heard of bands and albums being locked up for years - even with the constant promise of a release. And then being dropped. I think Emmett Tinley/the prayer boat could have had a much better career if they'd just released his records instead of just sitting on them. Maybe he's doing okay.


What is the pickle story?

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Royseven, I predict, will not be money makers !

Actually, I think you're wrong - I didn't know We Should Be Lovers was their song. That's not actually a bad song. Hints of MGMT and The Killers - but for what it is I think it's a really good song.

It's a good song.

150,000 views on Youtube - that is not a bad figure at all.

They've got an Ex-Brillant Trees guitar player.

And a bunch of Pulse recording graduates.

MilanPan!c

The Pickle Story

When I first moved to Boston I worked at a three story Tower Records... I worked on the rock floor.... I am originally from a pretty small town in the deep south and moved to Boston to be a musician... the staff were mostly musicians and artists and what not; it was a pretty, scenester-y kinda place... at any rate, one of the first guys I met was a rocker, don't ask me his name, this was a LONG time ago... he was all piercings and leather jacket and greasy hair... I shouldn't have been unnerved by kinda druggy types, but I was and this guy was a total druggy spaceshot... or so I thought... after a few months I was at a party (trying to hook up with this girl I worked with) and I mentioned he creeped me out...

that's when I heard the pickle story.

This guy was in the biggest band in Boston about a year earlier, signed to a major label... had been sent on little tiny tours around New England and literally weeks away from a major support slot, national tour, yada yada... had a video shot, record recorded... the whole package...

However, as many musicians do, he wasn't making a cent off it yet and was still working a night job in a restaurant... one night he went to the stock room to get a giant glass jar of pickles from a top shelf... somehow the jar fell... or he fell or the shelf broke and the jar landed, at full force on his head... and gave him permanent brain damage.

End of career.

****ing pickles.

****.

So a year later, he shelved CDs at tower records....

MilanPan!c

krd wrote: »

Actually, I think you're wrong - I didn't know We Should Be Lovers was their song. That's not actually a bad song. Hints of MGMT and The Killers - but for what it is I think it's a really good song.

It's a good song.

150,000 views on Youtube - that is not a bad figure at all.

They've got an Ex-Brillant Trees guitar player.

And a bunch of Pulse recording graduates.

Being signed on a sub of WB and selling a bunch of record in Germany and Europe is a LOT further than most bands get... I don't know if they'll be HUGE, but... they're a lot further down the road than 99.9999999999999999% of bands get.

PaulBrewer

You make money after you pay back what you've spent. There's the problem.

RadioHead owed a fortune after The Bends touring / selling was complete, for example.

I knew a couple of the RS guys from the factory days, lovely chaps. I think the singer is distinctive too.

However, making money is an entirely different proposition.

You don't get any from YouTube... I know country and Irish artists with half a million views.

MilanPan!c

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You make money after you pay back what you've spent. There's the problem.

RadioHead owed a fortune after The Bends touring / selling was complete, for example.

I knew a couple of the RS guys from the factory days, lovely chaps. I think the singer is distinctive too.

However, making money is an entirely different proposition.

You don't get any from YouTube... I know country and Irish artists with half a million views.

No doubt, but that's more an issue for all labels, band, artists, countries...

In other words that's unrelated to the Irish scene... If they do make money, it won't be for an Irish label... that's my larger point.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You make money after you pay back what you've spent. There's the problem.

Very hard to pay back a loan, when the interest rate is on average 1,000%

RadioHead owed a fortune after The Bends touring / selling was complete, for example.

And Radiohead after their tour returned to their cold bedsits and the dole.

Just searching for sales figures on The Bends. One figure I found is 8 million soundscan. That's 8 million sales in the US alone. I know technically Radiohead could still be in debt to their record company after sales like that. But there's no way in hell the record company sat them down after the tour and said sorry lads, we haven't broken even - better look next time, hurry up to the dole office before it closes.

You have to be wary of when some people say they're broke. Technically they may owe the record company or whoever a lot of money. But they may have a nice house, nice car, money in the bank.

The published accounts of Riverdance always show the company just about breaking even. This of course is bull****.

I knew a couple of the RS guys from the factory days, lovely chaps. I think the singer is distinctive too.

Shouldn't all singers be distinctive? It's an open secret - mediocre sounding vocalists do not sell. They'll even get beaten by distinctive sounding singers who can't sing in tune.

And look at all the people who come on these boards saying the lyrics etc are not important. As if the star attraction on their productions is the snare sound, or the two note indie rock solo.

What could be paying off for Royseven in the end of the day might not be their musical talent, might not be any magical gift, but an attitude to what they're doing.

However, making money is an entirely different proposition.

Obviously, if you spend more money than you make, you will be broke. It's funny what makes money and what doesn't. And for some people, they don't make money at the height of their flame but afterwards. You have American rappers who try to get into to films - because a little bad acting will pay off massively more than their records - the records; which after the record company takes their cut, there is SFA left.

In fact you may never make a penny from your music. Even if you reach the billboard top 10. You may literally make all your money by not singing or playing a note. Collecting appearance fees for turning up at nightclubs, supper market opening etc. "DJ'ing" . Coolio - remember Coolio Gangstas Paradise. He was in Dublin recently - at a night club. He was paid just to be at the night club. He hasn't made a record in a very long time. It's most likely not worth his while. Maybe he's in contract where he can't sing or play a note. But he can turn up places.

You don't get any from YouTube... I know country and Irish artists with half a million views.

You don't get any money from Youtube. But that's not the thing. You have to monetise what you get from it. If you're getting a few hundred thousand hits on Youtube, it means a few hundred thousand people have sought your thing out. Not everyone has the same audience. A country and Irish act with a million hits are not going to get a gig at Glastonbury - but it means there is an audience out there for them. And it's a case of getting to that audience.

Brendan Shine still tours - he's not doing it in the vain hope of one of his records taking off like O.K. Computer. I bet he makes far more money than NMEs flavour of the month. I don't know Brendan Shine. But I have know Irish trad musicians less famous than even the great Brendan. And they make very decent music touring the US. If you can play jigs and reels, and polkas - even if you're completely unknown. With a few phone calls you can book a US tour, that will last a few weeks, where you will be paid very well to play very small gigs - all your expenses will be paid and you will come away with money in your pocket. If you know how to do that.



I was talking to someone a while back who was involved in running a very small, unknown Irish trad revue, that tours Europe. They said they couldn't even figure out how or why they were doing so well. Every time they went back there were more people.

PaulBrewer

I do know Brendan Shine .

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I do know Brendan Shine .

Yeah.........thought you would.

Bet you knew the great Joe Dolan too. And joking aside. People like Joe knew how to make money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfeqYjqms8

Helix

shayleon wrote: »

trying to make a difference :
http://www.petitiononline.com/mlpmoir/

meh

nationality shouldnt come into it. stations should play what they want

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

Yeah.........thought you would.

Bet you knew the great Joe Dolan too. And joking aside. People like Joe knew how to make money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfeqYjqms8

I did a couple of Albums with Joe in his own studio in Mullingar. They used to have a lovely place ( which I think is still there) big live room and a big control room with separate machine room.

Could have been a fantastic place.

drumdrum

Helix wrote: »

meh

nationality shouldnt come into it. stations should play what they want

well, to be fair, its the Irish stations that often bring it on themselves when they advertise slogans like "more Irish music than anyone else" and the such. They all like to pander to their audiences and play on their audiences sense of national pride. Heck, every business does this at some point!

I think the only problem is when they proclaim to support Irish music and then the only Irish music they play is either U2 or the Script....both international mega-huge bands who made it big elsewhere first.

They just dont give local bands a chance as the market is too small over here for even the radio stations who struggle to fill advertising space just to break even. They view it that they cant afford to take risks with local bands that nobody has heard of. Whether they are good or not is irrelevant.
Its about branding most of the time. Big bands are brands and recognised names which the radio station use to keep listeners tuned in.

How many times have you heard things like -
"Coming up after the break I've got the new song from X for you, so stay tuned for that! <ads then come on>"
- on the radio, where X is the name of a big artist such as Lady Gaga or U2?
If you actually listen out for these things, its amazing at how often we take hooks and things like this for granted!

maccored

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You don't get any from YouTube... I know country and Irish artists with half a million views.

you dont make money from youtube, but plenty of other video sites offer advertising revenue (tiny, tiny, tiny advertising revenue but something all the same.) Wouldnt pay the mortgage right enough.

drumdrum

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

flyswatter

drumdrum wrote: »

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

PaulBrewer

flyswatter wrote: »

drumdrum wrote: »

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

Has anyone here actually done that ?

Is payment for views or for clicks on ads ?
I'm on my phone so reading a long FAQ isn't comfy at the moment.

It's probably a pittance ?

eviltimeban

krd wrote: »

Plus I think Rob wants to beat me up - he's sore after me calling him a monster on facebook. Every gig I've been to since that circus freak has been trying to sniff me out.

Define "circus freak"? Someone who's taller than 6'?

I'm not really sore about your comments about me; after all, you are using the anonymity of a web forum to make them. Perhaps come up to me after the next gig and call me a "circus freak". After all, you did want to "say hi" to the band, didn't you?

krd

eviltimeban wrote: »

Define "circus freak"? Someone who's taller than 6'?

Not necessarily. Circuses have dwarves, ladies with beards, and cojoined twins.

I'm not really sore about your comments about me;

He says - but watch what he says next.

after all, you are using the anonymity of a web forum to make them. Perhaps come up to me after the next gig and call me a "circus freak".

That sounds like pissed. That sounds like sore. That sounds like a sore fcuking threat.

After all, you did want to "say hi" to the band, didn't you?

I'm not coming anywhere near you, when you're in that mood.


Rob.........will you get a grip.....Sweet love of fff'ing Jesus

eviltimeban

krd wrote: »

Not necessarily. Circuses have dwarves, ladies with beards, and cojoined twins.



He says - but watch what he says next.



That sounds like pissed. That sounds like sore. That sounds like a sore fcuking threat.



I'm not coming anywhere near you, when you're in that mood.


Rob.........will you get a grip.....Sweet love of fff'ing Jesus

I knew you'd back down. :-)

Just watch what you say about people, is all.

Glad you like the band and come to our gigs! Come up and shake my hand after the next one. Seriously, I won't squeeze too hard with my gigantic, shovel-like hands...

Android 666

There's your music scene in Ireland right there lads…

Play all the safe music you want in the hopes of getting somewhere lads, some gobby tit will always come along and usurp you…

fitz

eviltimeban wrote: »

I knew you'd back down. :-)

Just watch what you say about people, is all.

Glad you like the band and come to our gigs! Come up and shake my hand after the next one. Seriously, I won't squeeze too hard with my gigantic, shovel-like hands...

One thing about the "scene" here is that it's way too small to get into stuff like this. Do you really want potential fans thinking that you're the type to write (what could be seen as) intimidating replies to someone you think is being an ass on a forum?
It's not something you come out of looking good.

As for the Brunker thing Android, it's a crying shame that one of a litany of talented bands didn't get a look in for that slot. Best not to try and understand it.

eviltimeban

fitz wrote: »

One thing about the "scene" here is that it's way too small to get into stuff like this. Do you really want potential fans thinking that you're the type to write (what could be seen as) intimidating replies to someone you think is being an ass on a forum?
It's not something you come out of looking good.

You're right, I agree with you. Its not just someone being an ass though, its someone getting personal, for no reason at all. And that's going to provoke a reaction from me. Sorry, fans! :-)

ON TOPIC for once, I think the music scene isn't that healthy, because, let's face it, most of the bands aren't very good. It was same story back in 1998 when I was first gigging in bands, was the same in 2004 when I was again more involved, and its the same now that I am a bit older and see all the younger bands coming up. Most of the bands seem to be more interested in how tight their trousers are and what gear they have rather than writing good tunes and singing them well.

In the last 10 or 12 years I can only think of one local band who impressed me, they were called September Sun, sort of pseudo-psychedelic grunge. They were great because they had good songs, could play, had personality, looked like rock stars, and had the ambition to be something different. They made an album (self released, I have a copy) but they just disappeared. I think they should've gone to the States cos they probably could've made it. Anyone remember them?

Denalihighway

eviltimeban wrote: »

You're right, I agree with you. Its not just someone being an ass though, its someone getting personal, for no reason at all. And that's going to provoke a reaction from me. Sorry, fans! :-)

+1

J_E

flyswatter wrote: »

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

You'll find they're extremely picky though and if they even have a notion you're asking people to click on ads for money, they'll take it away for good. A friend of mine messaged a few people to click on ads to help him out and they terminated the partnership.

PaulBrewer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oZFZ3JesBcw#at=77

That's THE SCENE right there!

i57dwun4yb1pt8

omfg ^^^^^^^
thats just a feaces sammich

flyswatter

Atrocious.

MilanPan!c

DaDumTish wrote: »

omfg ^^^^^^^
thats just a faeces sammich

It's worse; I'd bet somewhere in the world you'd find at least 1 person that'd like a faeces sandwich...

krd

This worth reading. From the Independent on Amanda Brunker.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/ill-tell-you-why-you-shouldnt-have-got-a-chance-amanda-2817785.html

It's by Daniel McConnell. I'm not sure what band he's in.

Her presence on the Vodafone stage at Oxegen is the final nail in the coffin of the Irish music scene, which has been dying painfully slowly for years.


I think Daniel and lots of other people completely miss the point. They think if they would have had the same slot as Brunker it would have done something for their career or profile.

It would have not done anything for them. Nada - nuffink. They'd get a pass to Oxygen and that's about it. Personally, I'm boycotting Oxygen after this and other atrocities.

You've seen the Youtube clip. There were only 30 odd people there to see her - mostly, probably by accident. The reason she's had so much exposure from it, is because she's Amanda Brunker. And her appearance on the bill was more than a little outrageous.

If a "worthy" "deserving" band had been given the slot, no one would have noticed. And most people (of the tiny insignificant group of people who noticed) would still be thinking in the back of their minds, look at such and such - bet they got that slot because of pull with Desmond.


It's not a case of unfairness either. Brunker is completely lacking in any musical ability. She probably doesn't even really like music. She only knew a few words from With or without you.

Brunker's talent (and what she may have worked at) is not anything you could describe as musical. Her talent is drawing attention to herself. So many "serious" musicians you see around perform and look like, the most boring people you could possibly meet - waiting for a bus. Bands nowadays are tighter musicians, may be better with their arrangements, craft etc - but they are boring on so many other levels it is a pain to watch them.

And I think the people who complain about her - don't really understand what music and performance is all about. And you know something - if she could actually sing and perform, the whole package might not be that bad.

This is worth reading too. Andrea Smith from the same paper. As it illustrates the most salient point - and really the problem with most bands.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/brunker-brings-fresh-air-to-a-muddy-oxegen-2817732.html

The truth about Oxegen is that people go to festivals to be entertained. If I was wandering around a muddy field in Kildare, I'd be a million times more interested in watching Amanda Brunker potentially torturing the eardrums off the crowd, than being bored rigid by the "credible" music emanating from some earnest Z-list band who'd have trouble filling Whelan's.


The next time your band plays Whelans - invite Amanda to come along and sing a song. I guarantee you, it will pack the house. Some of her stardust may rub off - the Indo may start writing about you. And in the end if one thing leads to another, you may get a real slot at Oxygen. And don't forget to bring Amanda. After all, she's the one who got you there.