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Music Scene In Ireland
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Android 666 wrote: »Being more commercial sounding is not a guarantee of commercial success.
If it can be a commercial hit why would it need support from the government?
The role of government in arts funding should be more altruistic and like whiterob said support of music programmes and such would be a better way to spend the money.
I'd prefer arts funding going towards something that might not necessarily be made otherwise rather than something that is made with the intention of racking back in the moolah. It's not a perfect system and a lot of wilfully obtuse can be produced in the process but I'd rather the Irish government was funding up and coming playwrights then Riverdance.
i agree. i dont think there is currently any reason for government funding on commercial ventures. funding should be kept for non-commercial entities such as theatre groups and schools music programs. its hard enough for them to get funding as it is without stretching that funding even thinner on the ground.
but i do agree the commercial industry here needs help. if you want to run a band/studio/label to a commercial level then i think there should be some sort of start-up package in place geared towards the industry by a body like the IDA or similiar. currently if you go to them they look at you like you have some sort of mental illness for even considering a start-up business let alone one in the creative arts industry.. and yes, ive been there and gotten laughed at
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MilanPan!c wrote: »Basically, I wasn't hugely clear, so let me rectify that.
I meant government money should be used to support commercial stuff, which would result in the government having more money, some of which it could use o support more arty stuff.
Right now the government supports mostly arty stuff, which offers no return on investment, and in turn that means that government funded bodies like IMRO are begging artists for financial support.
That's just creating a money pit ...
As far as government support of labels, that could be either through low interest loans, or a million other ways... it doesn't have to be through direct investment, but it should be wit the attitude that the labels try and return that investment in money or time... create expectations of success...
Re: ASIWYFA... I think that niche bands are grand; I love mostly niche bands, but my love needs to be separate from what I want for the Irish music scene, which is for it to be something more than an incubator that other countries reap the rewards from.
Hope that's more clear.
that makes more sense. I definitely agree with the part about the government loaning the money and expecting a return as opposed to just handing over a huge chunk of cash.
But then isn't that what banks are(were?) for. And I know this is going to sound incredibly harsh but wouldn't a bank be more effective at ensuring a return on investment than a Government department?
I suppose what makes me slightly cynical about the idea is that it's something I've heard put out there by really awful bands trying to prolong their career. For example, I saw a documentary recently about the government funding the music scene and Humanzi were on saying "Our work is as important to society as doctor's so I think the Government should give us 5,000 to record our album in New York". This is near enough verbatim.
Let's deconstuct this statement:
"Our work is as important to society as doctor's" - No, it's not. There's a vital difference in that doctors are needed and wanted. I'm sorry but if your album only sells 500 copies after your band has been given support slots with every major band that plays dublin and your album is the subject of a massive marketing campaign and you're featured regularly in the NME, maybe it's time to rethink a few things. If the product isn't good enough it won't sell and maybe that's not the government's fault. Maybe they should look closer to home
"I think the Government should give us 5,000" - They did, it's called Social Welfare
"to record our album in New York" - Right, so you think the government should show faith in the Irish Music scene by handing tax money over to you but you clearly don't have enough faith in it yourself to invest in an Irish Producer.
Another thing that strikes me, and this may sound pretty cynical, is that seeing as how the most commercially successful Irish act doesn't actually pay tax here, it might not seem worth the government's while to invest in helping a band achieve huge success0 -
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MilanPan!c wrote: »Basically, I wasn't hugely clear, so let me rectify that.
I meant government money should be used to support commercial stuff, which would result in the government having more money, some of which it could use o support more arty stuff.
Right now the government supports mostly arty stuff, which offers no return on investment, and in turn that means that government funded bodies like IMRO are begging artists for financial support.
That's just creating a money pit ...
As far as government support of labels, that could be either through low interest loans, or a million other ways... it doesn't have to be through direct investment, but it should be wit the attitude that the labels try and return that investment in money or time... create expectations of success...
Re: ASIWYFA... I think that niche bands are grand; I love mostly niche bands, but my love needs to be separate from what I want for the Irish music scene, which is for it to be something more than an incubator that other countries reap the rewards from.
Hope that's more clear.
A bit like a 'Record Company' ....0 -
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This post may seem a little harsh, and I'm sure it could rub people up the wrong way, but here I go....
Ireland doesnt have the potential in its borders to let any band "make it" so to peak. This is true to popular-genre bands and even more so for niche bands. We just dont have a population or a market size thats big enough to get a band famous enough.
The most you may get is on the levels of ASIWYFA and Villagers and their ilk where you are big here, but nowhere else. Not to knock these bands, I think that they are both great! But unless you focus your efforts elsewhere (as these bands do) you are doomed to be a big fish in a small pond, making less than the guy at your gig who works in an office from 9-5.
If you arent big here then fine. But even if you are, dont bitch and whine about the music industry if you've not given yourself a decent shot at a bigger market first. Could be that your music just isnt "in" at the moment, or that you simply arent good enough on a large scale. There are tons of factors any of which could be a reason you never know of as to why you don't "make it".
I personally, get sick and tired of hearing bands with a semi-success here in Ireland who bitch and moan about the scene when they aren't even willing to give their own music a shot where their market really is. Music is not something that is held in by geographical borders. Its is universal, as too are its markets and unfortunately for us, due to socio-geographic reasons, the markets just aren't in Ireland (exception being Irish Trad music...maybe...)
If you can get overseas, then great. Get over to your markets and do us Irish proud! If you can't, then thats life, deal with the fact that your semi-success state WILL die out as you get older and that you're not destined to be a rock star. You certainly wont be the first or the last person to realise this or that this happens to. And its not always fair....people have lives and with lives come mortgages, jobs, women/men, babies etc etc... all stuff that tie people down which can prove problematic for truly ambitious bands. And in the grand scheme of things, you can't knock people for wanting lives outside of an industry where there is a TINY chance of getting any return in it. People need and deserve to be happy in any band, and if that means a job and kids then who are you to deny them this. It may mean parting ways, but you're better off deciding this now before you take a serious punt overseas for all parties involved.
On a different note, artists like ASIWYFA and Villagers are annomalies in the Irish scene. Out of the thousands of bands around Ireland, these guys are the "one in a million" guys, and not just out of sheer luck, though that does have a part (read on! ).
Hard work and practice, in combination with luck, have gotten these guys to where they are today, which in the grander scheme of things is not that far when you think about it, but further than most bands will get. And fair play to them! "Luck" is a funny business as its the word we attach to the "xfactor" or whatever you want to call it thats missing in the band with great players, but is there in other bands with lesser members. Its not something to be knocked, its something to be grateful for as nearly everything in the music biz is "who you know", instead of "what you know". A bands "luck" could be that the bassist is related to a record executive or an established producer or something. Could be any number of things.
Sure that band "Fox Avenue"... one of the band members or their manager ir something is a DJ on a major Irish radio station. I think its Spin 103.8 or something...I'm not 100% sure which one. Hes gotten them support act slots in the O2 as well as air time on Irish radio stations. Its completely "who you know"...
Obviously, this is a major asset for any band to have and they would be STUPID (as would most bands!) to ignore this asset in lieu of trying to be taken with fellow-musicians-credibility as a "serious band". Its easy to knock em...I sure as hell aint a fan, but I dont begrduge them to taking an easier way to getting noticed.
Should it be this way? Maybe, maybe not, but it is and to think otherwise is naive...
This is getting too long for even me to bear, and I can feel the beer-sleeps setting in, so I'll rap this up. Bands here bickering about the Irish scene have to realise that the scene left Ireland years ago to fields more lucrative. Simple as that. If you are content with being a big fish in a tiny pond (and some people are...nothing wrong with that!) then fine, but you cant moan about it. If you gave it a shot, and it didnt happen for you, then great, but I doubt you would be vocalising your opinions on boards.ie for all to see. Its the ones that can't or won't take the punt that are the most vocal ones. I understand that its a very tough thing to do to just "up-and-go" from (potentially) a job and loved ones, but its sacrifice that has to be taken if you REALLY intend to make it.
Most of us won't in our lives. Some of us will and will return with or tail between our legs, but with their heads held high with a sense of pride of having given it a "proper go". The RARE ones of these will actually make it somewhat big.....but these people are so rare that they come from these shores once every few decades.
Still...after all this ranting etc.....its definitely a dream worth chasing!
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