Music Scene In Ireland

MilanPan!c

flyswatter wrote: »

What are these bad attitudes? I was really into The Immediate, then they split up. Last band from the republic I really liked. Best of luck to Chris also, hopefully will be at a Riot Tapes gig in the future! Liking their stuff so far!

Thanks a lot flyswatter! We're playing 29 July at the Workmans (headlining) ad will debuting a lot of new material and "ideas" so
it'll be a big show for us. Plus there will be lot of "industry" folks there so... If you do come please bring 150 of your closet friends.

seriously though, I'm glad you're liking the stuff! Yay!

Android 666

drumdrum wrote: »

Canada has a much larger population as a whole, so your overall target audience is a lot larger, in countrywide release terms. Hence, there is more money to be made in the grander scheme of things, and more money potential = less risk for the labels. Montreal also happens to be a major city where the opportunities to play and record are, not to mention where record labels have their outposts located too.

Its not that big of a mystery IMO.

Dublin has a much smaller potential countrywide audience, has generally bad attitudes among its younger bands and has feck all opportunities in it. Any opportunities that do arise often are subject to unfair nepotism and "friends of friends" scenarios.

Then again, its not much different where you go I suppose....sure isnt it all about "who you know"?

But the Montreal scene would seems to develop and encourage experimental bands creating ambitious music which Dublin or Ireland wouldn't really do. In the country you have ambitious bands whose only influence seems to be Green Day or Nickleback and you in Dublin you have experimental bands who would seem to baulk at the idea of being in anyway ambitious with the music they create or with how far they'd like to go.

Montreal would be quite insular but it has a thriving arts scene, Dublin's proximity to London has always seemed to rob the city of an arts scene with any real ambition or individualism imo. There's great artists out there but it's never really coalesced into a cohesive scene. A thriving art scene always has a knock on effect in terms of the music created in a city.

Also, all the art kids in Dublin seem to be into sh¡tty electrohouse.

MilanPan!c

Android 666 wrote: »

But the Montreal scene would seems to develop and encourage experimental bands creating ambitious music which Dublin or Ireland wouldn't really do. In the country you have ambitious bands whose only influence seems to be Green Day or Nickleback and you in Dublin you have experimental bands who would seem to baulk at the idea of being in anyway ambitious with the music they create or with how far they'd like to go.

Montreal would be quite insular but it has a thriving arts scene, Dublin's proximity to London has always seemed to rob the city of an arts scene with any real ambition or individualism imo. There's great artists out there but it's never really coalesced into a cohesive scene. A thriving art scene always has a knock on effect in terms of the music created in a city.

Also, all the art kids in Dublin seem to be into sh¡tty electrohouse.

welllllllll....

It's funny innit...

I see that most of the bands the local "scene" supports are either of the indie pop (as in VERRRY "indie" - e.g. Popical Island) or the indie prog variety (Richter Collective, et al).

There are some really commercial SOUNDING bands that DON'T sound like the above, but which get no help from he likes of IMRO... at least a couple... On the other hand a band like Sacred Animals, who I like well enough, are not really commercially viable and yet they get sent to Canadian Music Week on the taxpayers dime.

IMO the bands that get a LOT of the help (and media attention) are bands like ASIWYFA, Adebesi Shank, etc... instrumental proggy bands... they're good and all, but... any chance of these guys ever REALLY breaking into international mainstream radio??? No.

There are exceptions (Heathers leaps to mind), but they aren't really even close to the majority...

DISCLAIMER: That's obv just my opinion, based on my own experience... I like a lot of this stuff; my only point is about the mainstream viability of it and the focus of the scene on this sort of material... these guys deserve a lot of respect for working their buts off and being good musicians.

Rockshamrover

So which comes first, the scene or the bands?

Do the bands not make the scene?

There's an awful lot of talent in Canada, and apart from their own population, they are also sitting right next to the US of A.

One of my favourite Canadian bands, City and Color, wont be playing on your local radio station anytime soon but they/he are pretty impressive and have enough of a following to earn a living.

MilanPan!c

Rockshamrover wrote: »

So which comes first, the scene or the bands?

Do the bands not make the scene?

There's an awful lot of talent in Canada, and apart from their own population, they are also sitting right next to the US of A.

One of my favourite Canadian bands, City and Color, wont be playing on your local radio station anytime soon but they/he are pretty impressive and have enough of a following to earn a living.

Complex dynamic. If a town has a niche label, like Richter, then a town has a lot more bands that match that labels niche, because money slows a band's rate of collapse... So.. In that case the label, sustains some bands, those bands are around longer and become bigger players in the scene.

Scenes are after all a bunch of overlapping micro-scenes....

Another wildcard is things like gov funding. If the gov ONLY funded country music the scene would look quite different.

flyswatter

Rockshamrover wrote: »

So which comes first, the scene or the bands?

Do the bands not make the scene?

There's an awful lot of talent in Canada, and apart from their own population, they are also sitting right next to the US of A.

One of my favourite Canadian bands, City and Color, wont be playing on your local radio station anytime soon but they/he are pretty impressive and have enough of a following to earn a living.

Can't the same be argued for Ireland in that it lies next to the UK? I don't see why Ireland can't have a better music scene.

MilanPan!c

flyswatter wrote: »

Can't the same be argued for Ireland in that it lies next to the UK? I don't see why Ireland can't have a better music scene.

Welllll.... Americans and Brits are quite different and the relationship between candians and the Irish is also different. Is it analagous? I don't know.

Rockshamrover

flyswatter wrote: »

Can't the same be argued for Ireland in that it lies next to the UK? I don't see why Ireland can't have a better music scene.

We did have, or Dublin had, a scene back in the 1980s. The Liffey Beat it was called. I don't know if any of the bands that were a part of that scene made any major inroads.

I think it's just a numbers thing, we can't sustain a successful scene at home and the cream of the crop will move away weakening the scene.

It would be great though

flyswatter

Rockshamrover wrote: »

We did have, or Dublin had, a scene back in the 1980s. The Liffey Beat it was called. I don't know if any of the bands that were a part of that scene made any major inroads.

I think it's just a numbers thing, we can't sustain a successful scene at home and the cream of the crop will move away weakening the scene.

It would be great though

Does any kind of scene not need a few successful bands that are remembered in time?

I'd just like a few more of them to come along.

I don't think it's a numbers thing, must be an underlying issue that needs to be sorted.

dasdog

Has there ever been any really good or original Irish Metal, Electro, HipHop, Reggae, Classical etc let alone there being a scene? Jazz (Louis Stewart), Soul (Van), Blues/Rock (Rory Gallagher & Gary Moore) and those four (Lizzy too) have done their thing. Enya/Louis Walsh pop music/Mid Atlantic accent The Script and Eurovision winners have gotten "famous" but I doubt anyone wants to go down that road. The Chieftans, Dubliners (do The Pogues count?) played music which was unique internationally and at least honest. I doubt there is need to promote if there is not much worth promoting. Riot Tapes are good all the same but so were Fatima Mansions. It's like trying to raise above a parapet instead of really being honest.

SeanHurley

I think MilanPan!c hit the nail on the head. "Scenes" are dictated by indie labels working in the area. Would the Seattle scene have existed but for Subpop? the Portland scene if Kill Rock Stars weren't there? The Washington DC hardcore scene but for Dischord records?

MilanPan!c

dasdog wrote: »

Has there ever been any really good or original Irish Metal, Electro, HipHop, Reggae, Classical etc let alone there being a scene? Jazz (Louis Stewart), Soul (Van), Blues/Rock (Rory Gallagher & Gary Moore) and those four (Lizzy too) have done their thing. Enya/Louis Walsh pop music/Mid Atlantic accent The Script and Eurovision winners have gotten "famous" but I doubt anyone wants to go down that road. The Chieftans, Dubliners (do The Pogues count?) played music which was unique internationally and at least honest. I doubt there is need to promote if there is not much worth promoting. Riot Tapes are good all the same but so were Fatima Mansions. It's like trying to raise above a parapet instead of really being honest.

I don't disagree with this actually, in principal, but I would say that bands like The Script are actually a great example of what I think the Irish industry SHOULD be supporting. Bands that are commercial and can make money and feed that money back into the industry.

I don't actually *like* their music, but what's better for the Irish music industry, successful commercial bands or niche stuff like ASIWYFA... who I do kind of like... I know it seems kinda crazy to "vote" against my taste, but I think that if the music industry acted more like e.g. the software industry, it would have MORE money and clout which it could use to help "artistes".

Personally, my project isn't trying to be an indie band, we're trying to be a launching board for our singer, as I think she's a once-in-a-lifetime kind of find... so we're aiming at more of a pop approach... where the unifying element is the vocals... very commercial attempt, but understanding that we're all hugely passionate about songs and music AND the business.

I think, even discounting us, that the Irish "scene" could greatly benefit from some labels trying to be commercial, instead of niche... what you'll notice is that most of the commercial stuff is signed by labels outside of Ireland and then re-imported back in (e.g. The Script (UK), Two Door Cinema Club (FR), Royseven (GER/US)). If Ireland wants to be more than an incubator it needs a few VERY commercial labels, with government backing, to compete against foreign labels. That "Script money" could be in Ireland, not the UK, etc.

IMO of course

splitrmx

dasdog wrote: »

Has there ever been any really good or original Irish Metal, Electro, HipHop, Reggae, Classical etc let alone there being a scene?

My Bloody Valentine.

Malice

dasdog wrote: »

any really good or original Irish Metal

A band being "good" is subjective so assuming you mean "internationally-recognised" the likes of Cruachan, Mael Mórdha and Primordial spring to mind immediately and I'm sure there are a few more.

krd

drumdrum wrote: »

Just grinds my gears when other bands feck off after their set at gigs when others have given them the respect to listen to their set, even if they were amazing or amazingly ****e!

They do it deliberately to give the finger. It's just cunnty behaviour.

One night I was at a singer songwriter night. And this girl had just finished up and the next was on. Anyway, the girl gets up and very loudly announces - over the singing of the girl who had just come on, that she was off to see such and such, and did anyone want to come with her. She deserves a solid punch in the face.

Whenever you see a band making an ostentatious show of leaving early, they're doing it deliberately. They're the same little pricks who'll pull all the other dirty tricks.

MilanPan!c

krd wrote: »

They do it deliberately to give the finger. It's just cunnty behaviour.

One night I was at a singer songwriter night. And this girl had just finished up and the next was on. Anyway, the girl gets up and very loudly announces - over the singing of the girl who had just come on, that she was off to see such and such, and did anyone want to come with her. She deserves a solid punch in the face.

Whenever you see a band making an ostentatious show of leaving early, they're doing it deliberately. They're the same little pricks who'll pull all the other dirty tricks.

yes and no... I mean, as far as the leaving goes... we played a show where the headliner treated us like dirt and was so awful they cleared the room... there's a lot of mediocre I'll put up with for the band, but if another band is just awful, well, I revert back to "listener mode" and head out for a pint...

I've never, on the other hand, tried to deliberately sabotage another band... ever... prolly cause I'm too just too stupid to think of a good plan

I wouldn't be surprised though... I've played gigs in five countries at this point and a LOT of gigs in the US/UK and never EVER did someone try to steal gear from me/my band until I played gigs in Ireland... happened twice in 10 gigs here... do NOT get that at all.

krd

MilanPan!c wrote: »

yes and no... I mean, as far as the leaving goes... we played a show where the headliner treated us like dirt and was so awful they cleared the room... there's a lot of mediocre I'll put up with for the band, but if another band is just awful, well, I revert back to "listener mode" and head out for a pint...

There's literally a handbook of dirty tricks Irish bands pull on each other. At one point they were called Geldof's dirty tricks TM. Supposedly because Bob Geldof was particularly bad for it back in the 70s.

Probably one of the most common dirty tricks. A band invites you to support them (but they're not doing this out of friendship or a favour - they just want you to bring your friends to their gig - a common piece of "advice" you'll see to get your band going) Where the twist is, you turn up and they deliberately drag their sound check out, to make sure you won't have any time to do yours. They also treat you like **** with the hope of unnerving you and making you play badly. Then they push you on early before there's anyone in the room. If they have a friendly soundman - they'll get them to screw your sound up while you're playing.

Then there is a whole host of other dirty tricks. From sabotaging your equipment - spilling drinks down your amp, knocking your instruments out of tune. Trying to distract you or make you nervous.

The upside of all this - if you can battle through and get used to the dirty tricks, it makes it very difficult to throw you off.

I've never, on the other hand, tried to deliberately sabotage another band... ever... prolly cause I'm too just too stupid to think of a good plan

There are two types of enemy: those you can't help making, and those you can. It doesn't pay to make enemies unnecessarily. The greasy little bsatardos playing the dirty tricks think they're being clever - but they're not. It's a case of making enemies unnecessarily. It's funny, they invite you to bring your friends, then they treat you like ****. You're going to tell your friends and the bad blood just spreads.

There are hundreds of dirty tricks. You've probably had them played on you many times without you noticing. There so so so many sneaky tricks.

I wouldn't be surprised though... I've played gigs in five countries at this point and a LOT of gigs in the US/UK and never EVER did someone try to steal gear from me/my band until I played gigs in Ireland... happened twice in 10 gigs here... do NOT get that at all.

Gear stealing here is rampant. It's probably just is Ireland. A lot of the people here are horrible and the music scene attracts some of the worst. And it does come out in their music and that's a reason I believe many of them have little or no success. They can't get anyone to a gig unless they're a cousin or they've tricked them.

Make a list of everyone who has screwed you over. You don't have to go stabbing them in the back, just make sure not to do anything to help them. And if you do feel like stabbing them in the back, they're fair game. Might teach them a lesson.

MilanPan!c

krd wrote: »

There's literally a handbook of dirty tricks Irish bands pull on each other. At one point they were called Geldof's dirty tricks TM. Supposedly because Bob Geldof was particularly bad for it back in the 70s.

Probably one of the most common dirty tricks. A band invites you to support them (but they're not doing this out of friendship or a favour - they just want you to bring your friends to their gig - a common piece of "advice" you'll see to get your band going) Where the twist is, you turn up and they deliberately drag their sound check out, to make sure you won't have any time to do yours. They also treat you like **** with the hope of unnerving you and making you play badly. Then they push you on early before there's anyone in the room. If they have a friendly soundman - they'll get them to screw your sound up while you're playing.

Then there is a whole host of other dirty tricks. From sabotaging your equipment - spilling drinks down your amp, knocking your instruments out of tune. Trying to distract you or make you nervous.

The upside of all this - if you can battle through and get used to the dirty tricks, it makes it very difficult to throw you off.



There are two types of enemy: those you can't help making, and those you can. It doesn't pay to make enemies unnecessarily. The greasy little bsatardos playing the dirty tricks think they're being clever - but they're not. It's a case of making enemies unnecessarily. It's funny, they invite you to bring your friends, then they treat you like ****. You're going to tell your friends and the bad blood just spreads.

There are hundreds of dirty tricks. You've probably had them played on you many times without you noticing. There so so so many sneaky tricks.



Gear stealing here is rampant. It's probably just is Ireland. A lot of the people here are horrible and the music scene attracts some of the worst. And it does come out in their music and that's a reason I believe many of them have little or no success. They can't get anyone to a gig unless they're a cousin or they've tricked them.

Make a list of everyone who has screwed you over. You don't have to go stabbing them in the back, just make sure not to do anything to help them. And if you do feel like stabbing them in the back, they're fair game. Might teach them a lesson.

It's funny, I often browse this forum on my phone, and it's hard to see who the posts are by, but every time I see one of yours I know, immediately. Ha!

One of the bands that tried to steal our gear is actually good friends with (their crap is produced by as a favour) one of Ireland's musical celebrities... I was VERY tempted to tell him (who I sometimes talk to on Twitter) about this guys behaviour, but figured, I'm the outsider here... don't rock the boat... probably wise considering the rest of your post...

I don't know if being a jerk makes your music any worse, but it certainly makes it harder once you get bigger than a local band.

oh and btw: I feel (and maybe this is again, me being an idiot) that holding grudges really only hurts you... people act the the way they do for all sorts of reasons... you can really miss out on some cool opportunities in this biz if you hold grudges.. it's more about gathering info so you can make better and better decisions over time... IMO of course.

flyswatter

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I don't disagree with this actually, in principal, but I would say that bands like The Script are actually a great example of what I think the Irish industry SHOULD be supporting. Bands that are commercial and can make money and feed that money back into the industry.

I don't actually *like* their music, but what's better for the Irish music industry, successful commercial bands or niche stuff like ASIWYFA... who I do kind of like... I know it seems kinda crazy to "vote" against my taste, but I think that if the music industry acted more like e.g. the software industry, it would have MORE money and clout which it could use to help "artistes".

Personally, my project isn't trying to be an indie band, we're trying to be a launching board for our singer, as I think she's a once-in-a-lifetime kind of find... so we're aiming at more of a pop approach... where the unifying element is the vocals... very commercial attempt, but understanding that we're all hugely passionate about songs and music AND the business.

I think, even discounting us, that the Irish "scene" could greatly benefit from some labels trying to be commercial, instead of niche... what you'll notice is that most of the commercial stuff is signed by labels outside of Ireland and then re-imported back in (e.g. The Script (UK), Two Door Cinema Club (FR), Royseven (GER/US)). If Ireland wants to be more than an incubator it needs a few VERY commercial labels, with government backing, to compete against foreign labels. That "Script money" could be in Ireland, not the UK, etc.

IMO of course

Did I read that right? You are trying to be a launching board for the singer?

So what happens to you and the rest of the band if she goes on to a solo career?

MilanPan!c

flyswatter wrote: »

Did I read that right? You are trying to be a launching board for the singer?

So what happens to you and the rest of the band if she goes on to a solo career?

What happens to any band whe there singer leaves?

That dynamic is more like a normal band. Lots of bands have singers that leave... We're hoping to avoid that... We basically are approaching the music as a pop thing (maybe a better way to say what I said before) but the group is much more like the band dynamic.

In other words, we write and produce more like a pop thing, but then recreate that as a band... Complex and maybe a bit unique, but... There you go...

flyswatter

MilanPan!c wrote: »

What happens to any band whe there singer leaves?

That dynamic is more like a normal band. Lots of bands have singers that leave... We're hoping to avoid that... We basically are approaching the music as a pop thing (maybe a better way to say what I said before) but the group is much more like the band dynamic.

In other words, we write and produce more like a pop thing, but then recreate that as a band... Complex and maybe a bit unique, but... There you go...

Ah, I thought you meant something along the lines of this is our singer and we're just her backing band until she becomes a massive solo star!

MilanPan!c

flyswatter wrote: »

Ah, I thought you meant something along the lines of this is our singer and we're just her backing band until she becomes a massive solo star!

I'm stupid, but even I am not *that* stupid.

krd

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's funny, I often browse this forum on my phone, and it's hard to see who the posts are by, but every time I see one of yours I know, immediately. Ha!

I have style. ... What can I say.

One of the bands that tried to steal our gear is actually good friends with (their crap is produced by as a favour) one of Ireland's musical celebrities... I was VERY tempted to tell him (who I sometimes talk to on Twitter) about this guys behaviour, but figured, I'm the outsider here... don't rock the boat... probably wise considering the rest of your post...

You're better off to keep your mouth well shut. He's probably going around telling a reverse of the story to get a pre-emptive strike in.

Dirty trick number eleventy whatever: Lies and falsehoods. People spreading stories to get you into trouble.

I don't know if being a jerk makes your music any worse, but it certainly makes it harder once you get bigger than a local band.

It can seriously stop you from progressing from a small local band. Being an asshole may or may not catch up with you. There's no golden rule says it will or does.

I think people who screw around may screw themselves more often than they realise. Say for a completely hypothetical situation. A small band have an experience with a soundman where he's a real asshole. The small band gets bigger - who are they not going to call?

oh and btw: I feel (and maybe this is again, me being an idiot) that holding grudges really only hurts you... people act the the way they do for all sorts of reasons... you can really miss out on some cool opportunities in this biz if you hold grudges.. it's more about gathering info so you can make better and better decisions over time... IMO of course.

You really have to watch people. Not so much be paranoid - just watch. It's funny who will screw you and why.

flyswatter

krd wrote: »

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's funny, I often browse this forum on my phone, and it's hard to see who the posts are by, but every time I see one of yours I know, immediately. Ha!

I have style. ... What can I say.

One of the bands that tried to steal our gear is actually good friends with (their crap is produced by as a favour) one of Ireland's musical celebrities... I was VERY tempted to tell him (who I sometimes talk to on Twitter) about this guys behaviour, but figured, I'm the outsider here... don't rock the boat... probably wise considering the rest of your post...

You're better off to keep your mouth well shut. He's probably going around telling a reverse of the story to get a pre-emptive strike in.

Dirty trick number eleventy whatever: Lies and falsehoods. People spreading stories to get you into trouble.

I don't know if being a jerk makes your music any worse, but it certainly makes it harder once you get bigger than a local band.

It can seriously stop you from progressing from a small local band. Being an asshole may or may not catch up with you. There's no golden rule says it will or does.

I think people who screw around may screw themselves more often than they realise. Say for a completely hypothetical situation. A small band have an experience with a soundman where he's a real asshole. The small band gets bigger - who are they not going to call?

oh and btw: I feel (and maybe this is again, me being an idiot) that holding grudges really only hurts you... people act the the way they do for all sorts of reasons... you can really miss out on some cool opportunities in this biz if you hold grudges.. it's more about gathering info so you can make better and better decisions over time... IMO of course.

You really have to watch people. Not so much be paranoid - just watch. It's funny who will screw you and why.

Christ, is this mainly the Dublin scene?

cerebis

krd wrote: »

They do it deliberately to give the finger. It's just cunnty behaviour.

One night I was at a singer songwriter night. And this girl had just finished up and the next was on. Anyway, the girl gets up and very loudly announces - over the singing of the girl who had just come on, that she was off to see such and such, and did anyone want to come with her. She deserves a solid punch in the face.

Whenever you see a band making an ostentatious show of leaving early, they're doing it deliberately. They're the same little pricks who'll pull all the other dirty tricks.

don't really agree with this..most of the time when we are supporting someone in Dublin (usually on a weeknight), we stay for as long as we can and then we gotta get back in the car and head home to Louth or Meath etc to get up for work the next day...I'd stay listening all night if i could

whiterob81

krd wrote: »

Probably one of the most common dirty tricks. A band invites you to support them (but they're not doing this out of friendship or a favour - they just want you to bring your friends to their gig - a common piece of "advice" you'll see to get your band going) Where the twist is, you turn up and they deliberately drag their sound check out, to make sure you won't have any time to do yours. They also treat you like **** with the hope of unnerving you and making you play badly. Then they push you on early before there's anyone in the room. If they have a friendly soundman - they'll get them to screw your sound up while you're playing.

.

A bunch of mates of mine supported Lupine Howl in Whelans a few years ago and they said this was exactly how it went. The fact that most people reading this post will now have to google Lupine Howl shows how well it worked for them.

madtheory

Same old story- that's just lack of business acumen. Use the tummy test to decide whether the other party is trustworthy or not, or lay it all out in a written agreement before hand. It's also called professionalism. "Ya man, let's do a gig together man" does not constitute an agreement.

whiterob81

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I don't disagree with this actually, in principal, but I would say that bands like The Script are actually a great example of what I think the Irish industry SHOULD be supporting. Bands that are commercial and can make money and feed that money back into the industry.

I don't actually *like* their music, but what's better for the Irish music industry, successful commercial bands or niche stuff like ASIWYFA... who I do kind of like... I know it seems kinda crazy to "vote" against my taste, but I think that if the music industry acted more like e.g. the software industry, it would have MORE money and clout which it could use to help "artistes".

I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I don't see how supporting a band you don't like will actually help a band that you do. I know the theory of a rising tide lifting all boats etc. but if a label has success with a band like the Script, they're probably going to pump a lot of money they make from that into the next band that sounds most like the script.

The seattle scene was established by Sub Pop signing bands like Mudhoney and Nirvana that were out of step with the mainstream at the time, not because they signed Heart.

It's true that bands like ASIWYFA and Adebisi Shank may never be hugely commercially successful but I do think the music they're creating is more interesting and exciting than what most american and UK indie bands are producing at the moment. I do agree with what a lot of people have said in this thread about Dublin, in the past, being full of bands too up their own hole and satisfied with playing to 10 of their friends in whelans once a month to create anything truly worthwhile. In the past I would have been the first to complain about the quality of local bands. I've bought enough badly produced albums and been to enough terrible gigs over the years. But I do think that's been changing a lot over the last while. It's been a wierd sensation over the last while seeing bands like Bats and being able to say "These guys are great." without having to add the disclaimer "For an Irish band".

I actually think one of the problems with the Irish music scene at the moment is that magazines like Hot Press support what they see as being very commercial sounding bands but a lot of them are just very generic sounding rock bands. So when you're reading 9 star reviews of very mediocre bands, it's easy for the reader to become jaded and it makes it harder for genuinely decent bands to get through the cracks.

Also, and I know this is going to be very unpopular here, but I don't see why the Government should give over any money to record labels. I definitely think give money to schools for music programmes, put money in to rehearsal rooms and make it so that learning music isn't just the preserve of people who are lucky enough to afford it. but i don't agree with handing tax money over to record labels

MilanPan!c

whiterob81 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I don't see how supporting a band you don't like will actually help a band that you do. I know the theory of a rising tide lifting all boats etc. but if a label has success with a band like the Script, they're probably going to pump a lot of money they make from that into the next band that sounds most like the script.

The seattle scene was established by Sub Pop signing bands like Mudhoney and Nirvana that were out of step with the mainstream at the time, not because they signed Heart.

It's true that bands like ASIWYFA and Adebisi Shank may never be hugely commercially successful but I do think the music they're creating is more interesting and exciting than what most american and UK indie bands are producing at the moment. I do agree with what a lot of people have said in this thread about Dublin, in the past, being full of bands too up their own hole and satisfied with playing to 10 of their friends in whelans once a month to create anything truly worthwhile. In the past I would have been the first to complain about the quality of local bands. I've bought enough badly produced albums and been to enough terrible gigs over the years. But I do think that's been changing a lot over the last while. It's been a wierd sensation over the last while seeing bands like Bats and being able to say "These guys are great." without having to add the disclaimer "For an Irish band".

I actually think one of the problems with the Irish music scene at the moment is that magazines like Hot Press support what they see as being very commercial sounding bands but a lot of them are just very generic sounding rock bands. So when you're reading 9 star reviews of very mediocre bands, it's easy for the reader to become jaded and it makes it harder for genuinely decent bands to get through the cracks.

Also, and I know this is going to be very unpopular here, but I don't see why the Government should give over any money to record labels. I definitely think give money to schools for music programmes, put money in to rehearsal rooms and make it so that learning music isn't just the preserve of people who are lucky enough to afford it. but i don't agree with handing tax money over to record labels

Basically, I wasn't hugely clear, so let me rectify that.

I meant government money should be used to support commercial stuff, which would result in the government having more money, some of which it could use o support more arty stuff.

Right now the government supports mostly arty stuff, which offers no return on investment, and in turn that means that government funded bodies like IMRO are begging artists for financial support.

That's just creating a money pit ...

As far as government support of labels, that could be either through low interest loans, or a million other ways... it doesn't have to be through direct investment, but it should be wit the attitude that the labels try and return that investment in money or time... create expectations of success...

Re: ASIWYFA... I think that niche bands are grand; I love mostly niche bands, but my love needs to be separate from what I want for the Irish music scene, which is for it to be something more than an incubator that other countries reap the rewards from.

Hope that's more clear.

Android 666

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Basically, I wasn't hugely clear, so let me rectify that.

I meant government money should be used to support commercial stuff, which would result in the government having more money, some of which it could use o support more arty stuff.

Being more commercial sounding is not a guarantee of commercial success.

If it can be a commercial hit why would it need support from the government?

The role of government in arts funding should be more altruistic and like whiterob said support of music programmes and such would be a better way to spend the money.

I'd prefer arts funding going towards something that might not necessarily be made otherwise rather than something that is made with the intention of racking back in the moolah. It's not a perfect system and a lot of wilfully obtuse can be produced in the process but I'd rather the Irish government was funding up and coming playwrights then Riverdance.