Formula 1: Round 08 - European Grand Prix

Richard Hillman

We were always gonna get a dull race after last time out. Hopefully we get a drizzle at Silverstone

Myrddin

Back to business as usual for the 2011 season. I'm gonna start buying Red Bull ...to keep me awake during the races. Gutted the diffuser regs made no odds, the rest of the season is just a formality from here on out. I really can't see McLaren of Ferrari catching up enough with RB to challenge them for wins.

Canada was one of the best races I've seen, but it was a chain of events coupled with the circuit which gave us that. I wasn't expecting today to match it by any stretch, but jeez the difference between the two is unreal.

cherryghost

EnterNow wrote: »

Back to business as usual for the 2011 season. I'm gonna start buying Red Bull ...to keep me awake during the races. Gutted the diffuser regs made no odds, the rest of the season is just a formality from here on out. I really can't see McLaren of Ferrari catching up enough with RB to challenge them for wins.

Canada was one of the best races I've seen, but it was a chain of events coupled with the circuit which gave us that. I wasn't expecting today to match it by any stretch, but jeez the difference between the two is unreal.

I thought the ban wasn't being enforced until the next race?

kahf1_01

well, there was a ban on engine mappings for this race (valencia) but yes, come the next round, in england the double rear diffusers will be effectively banned. That's when we will see some really tight racing, I presume. And, yeah! com'on vettel, give them the finger

Ghost Train

Was falling asleep, think I missed the last few laps. Pity there wasn't a bit more action. Good result for Alonso though

EvilMonkey

Crap race crap track role on Silverstone.

Myrddin

cherryghost wrote: »

I thought the ban wasn't being enforced until the next race?

I thought it was this one

kahf1_01 wrote: »

well, there was a ban on engine mappings for this race (valencia) but yes, come the next round, in england the double rear diffusers will be effectively banned. That's when we will see some really tight racing, I presume. And, yeah! com'on vettel, give them the finger

Ah cool, there's a glimmer of hope then

Glico Man

Dull... Never liked the Valencia track, even when playing it in a game. It's a boring, lifeless circuit built on the back of the success of a championship winning driver to get more money.

Roll on the next two great, classic circuits, Silverstone and then the Nurburgring

Discodog

God it's dire when protecting your tyres becomes more important than being fast. It also gives a massive advantage to the guy out in front & running in clean air. The RB dominance will really worry the FIA because viewers will start switching off.

Big thanks to Lewis for the comment of the day - summed up the race for me:

Pit: You need to conserve your tyres

LH: I am going as slow as I can

Him & JB really need to give McClaren a serious kick up the arse. Interesting that JB thought that Hamilton was mad to sign such a long contract. Also note how all the so called detractors have backed down & "clarified" their comments regarding LH's driving.

amacachi

Discodog wrote: »

God it's dire when protecting your tyres becomes more important than being fast. It also gives a massive advantage to the guy out in front & running in clean air. The RB dominance will really worry the FIA because viewers will start switching off.

Tyres have always been massively important.

Him & JB really need to give McClaren a serious kick up the arse. Interesting that JB thought that Hamilton was mad to sign such a long contract. Also note how all the so called detractors have backed down & "clarified" their comments regarding LH's driving.

Think it was just a really bad track for McLaren tbh. Interesting to note that the time difference between Hamilton and Button at the end of the race was almost exactly what Button lost with KERS.

Discodog

amacachi wrote: »

Tyres have always been massively important.

I agree but you didn't have these silly "must use both compound" rules, the make us a tyre that will last x number of laps & the fuel saving/engine management. I am old enough & lucky enough to have watched Senna & Mansell from trackside. F1 should always be about speed & racing not KERS, DRS etc etc. The drivers have to be a mix of driver & computer operator.

Reduce the aero - flat floors, bring back big tyres, allow the teams to stop how & when they want. Make it so the fastest drivers can race each other & with exception of Monaco ban or modify tracks to allow overtaking.

But I still accept that whatever the rules Newey would probably make the fastest car.

By the way is this proving the paddock rumour that McLaren F1 always suffer when they have a road car on the go ?

kahf1_01

I think we've been a bit spoilt. Yes china and canada were phenomonal races, but if you compare the race in valencia with last year, it was miles (pardon the pun) better. In terms of excitment 2011 is trashing 2010, but if your not a vettel fan then it does kinda suck. but remember 2009 JB was running away with it, he won 6/7 of the first races. it went down to the wire in brazil.

And TBH, I've got a real snickey suspicion this year, 2011, is going to go right down to the wire. For the drivers champ'. but not a hope in hell for the construtors'

Discodog

I am not so sure. I reckon that Ferrari turned up the wick on Alonso's car for a home race. Also I think that the RB's will continue to get better. They have the team & the resources to keep improving. Newey has built a near perfect car with few weak points for others to exploit - hence JB's comments about Vettel. When a car is so good in all areas it makes it easy because you don't have any specific problems to work on so you can keep making little improvements.

MudSkipper

pffffftttt as dull as they come, even some of the drivers were calling it boring... JB: "didnt see any other cars" :eek: only vettel was excited about it

Myrddin

kahf1_01 wrote: »

but if you compare the race in valencia with last year, it was miles (pardon the pun) better.

Individually maybe this years race was better, but the season wasn't decided by only the 8th race...so for me 2010 had real anticipation/excitement in it (especially by this stage it was hotting up nicely).

kahf1_01 wrote:

In terms of excitment 2011 is trashing 2010

Seriously? For me its exactly like watching races that you recorded & someone has told you who won before you got to watch it.

kahf1_01 wrote:

but if your not a vettel fan then it does kinda suck.

Ah I see, that explains the above.

kahf1_01 wrote:

but remember 2009 JB was running away with it, he won 6/7 of the first races. it went down to the wire in brazil.

Not the same. Button was able to do that because Brawn caught everyone on the hop with the diffuser design. It was only going to be a matter of time before the other teams caught up. Red Bull on the other hand have dominated F1 for a good while now, McLaren & Frearri have had an age to figure out whats making the RB so fast & its still not happening. Its not one single component giving the advantage to RB, its the combination of Vettel driving a Newey designed masterpiece...that's not something you can exactly buy. So no, mathematically the season is still well open & plenty of points available...realistically RB arn't going to screw up lets face it, it's well over already.

kahf1_01 wrote:

And TBH, I've got a real snickey suspicion this year, 2011, is going to go right down to the wire. For the drivers champ'. but not a hope in hell for the construtors'

I hope your right, imagine being 50/60% through the season and it was already won...sadness.

kahf1_01

well I think he was just messin' he saw a few, plus the back-markers. Anyway, it was expected that this race wasn't going to be a stunner. We've still got silverstone, monza, japan, and more.

RB in fact still have issues, their KERS system in still quiet new and sadly it heavily compromises their aero package - newey is having none of that though. MW's gearbox failed him the last 4-5 laps there's a realiabilty issue. RB are quiet weak at low downforce circuits. So yah, every team even RB have weak points. IMO the reason why their dominating is all cos' of 1 man. Vettel. put him a ferrari or mclaren and he would have still dominated this season. He is so underated. remeber monza few years ago. he was in a crap toro rosso and won.

amacachi

Not the same. Button was able to do that because Brawn caught everyone on the hop with the diffuser design. It was only going to be a matter of time before the other teams caught up. Red Bull on the other hand have dominated F1 for a good while now, McLaren & Frearri have had an age to figure out whats making the RB so fast & its still not happening. Its not one single component giving the advantage to RB, its the combination of Vettel driving a Newey designed masterpiece...that's not something you can exactly buy. So no, mathematically the season is still well open & plenty of points available...realistically RB arn't going to screw up lets face it, it's well over already.

The difference between this year and 09 is that RB have a bigger advantage than Brawn ever had but just like Brawn they're making the most of it. RB and Vettel had the fastest car over the season and fcuked up at the start, something people seem to forget.

kahf1_01

Seriously? For me its exactly like watching races that you recorded & someone has told you who won before you got to watch it.

Canada?

I hope your right, imagine being 50/60% through the season and it was already won...sadness.

Yes, totally 100% agree. Last time that happened was in the 1970's with Nigel Mansell. Ironically another Newey designed car. He won the title with 5-6 races left. Quiet sad.

But 2011 is a different picture. New points system will throw a screw in the clogs. Plus JB and MW are rapidly closing in on him.

Myrddin

kahf1_01 wrote: »

RB in fact still have issues, their KERS system in still quiet new and sadly it heavily compromises their aero package

And yet, 6 wins out of isn't bad is it.

kahf1_01]MW's gearbox failed him the last 4-5 laps there's a realiabilty issue.

If something on a Red Bull fails lately it will be on Webbers car. He was destined to be the no.2 there, despite last years effort In the end, the rest of them handed it to Vettel in Abu Dhabi, I doubt he'll get another shot at a title...but that's besides the point. His gearbox problem isn't really a reliability concern though is it, more so a glitch/random fault.

kahf1_01 wrote:

RB are quiet weak at low downforce circuits.

Such as Monaco? The race for RB is statistically decided on a Saturday, yes the car is weaker in a low downforce scenario but once Vettel is on pole normally thats it. It's partly whats taking the fun out of watching it for me also.

So yah, every team even RB have weak points. IMO the reason why their dominating is all cos' of 1 man. Vettel. put him a ferrari or mclaren and he would have still dominated this season. He is so underated. remeber monza few years ago. he was in a crap toro rosso and won.

Agreed he's a seriously fast kid & is a future legend no doubt. But is he 1/1.5 seconds quicker than Alonso, Hamilton & Button purely out of skill? No he isn't, similarly there are many drivers in midfield cars which would shine if in the seat of the RB. Would they shine as brightly as Vettel? No prob not he is above most classes but we've seen how many champions move to different cars & suddenly they're standing still...the RB is just a masterpiece in the right hands.

amacachi wrote: »

The difference between this year and 09 is that RB have a bigger advantage than Brawn ever had but just like Brawn they're making the most of it. RB and Vettel had the fastest car over the season and fcuked up at the start, something people seem to forget.

Thank god they did.

kahf1_01 wrote: »

Canada?

Em...

EnterNow wrote: »

Canada was one of the best races I've seen

kahf1_01 wrote:

Yes, totally 100% agree. Last time that happened was in the 1970's with Nigel Mansell. Ironically another Newey designed car. He won the title with 5-6 races left. Quiet sad.

But 2011 is a different picture. New points system will throw a screw in the clogs. Plus JB and MW are rapidly closing in on him.

The points system rewards higher positions, Vettel normally finishes high JB & MW rapidly closing in on Vettel? Em, isn't Vettel rapidly widening the gap to everyone else instead??

kahf1_01

Hmm I don't know what to say. But, why are people so down on RB, com'on give them a break. Let them enjoy their success. They deserve it. OK, I know they are walking away with it, but the worked hard for it. No ever hit out at Ferrari in the late 90s and early 21st century during the suchmey era. In fact people look back upon those days and praise there dominating success.

All I know is this (pardon the Eddie Jordan pun) . . . history is repeating itself. Vettel is the next suchmey, time and time again history in F1 repeats itself.

Myrddin

kahf1_01 wrote: »

Hmm I don't know what to say. But, why are people so down on RB, com'on give them a break. Let them enjoy their success. They deserve it. OK, I know they are walking away with it, but the worked hard for it. No ever hit out at Ferrari in the late 90s and early 21st century during the suchmey era. In fact people look back upon those days and praise there dominating success.

All I know is this (pardon the Eddie Jordan pun) . . . history is repeating itself. Vettel is the next suchmey, time and time again history in F1 repeats itself.

I don't think anyone here has a gripe with RB/Vettel, this is racing after all & why should the best team not win. But with full respect to them, F1 on Sundays is like Groundhog Day man...its getting too predictable to be have any excitement factor. I don't blame RB, I'm looking at the other teams for answers, but it just isn't happening

Grim.

loving redbull making a show of the established teams myself

Myrddin

Grim. wrote: »

loving redbull making a show of the established teams myself

McL & Ferrari have had enough time at this stage to be competing, but they really are still scratching their heads I think.

Grim.

EnterNow wrote: »

McL & Ferrari have had enough time at this stage to be competing, but they really are still scratching their heads I think.

bit like yamaha ducati and suzuki in motogp this year honda turned up with a bike at the start of the year that was half a second to a full second faster than their own

Bigal87

kahf1_01 wrote: »

Yes, totally 100% agree. Last time that happened was in the 1970's with Nigel Mansell. Ironically another Newey designed car. He won the title with 5-6 races left. Quiet sad.

Correction: That was 1992 in fact.

And don't forget that Schumacher won the title in 2002 with 6 races left.

Myrddin

Bigal87 wrote: »

Correction: That was 1992 in fact.

And don't forget that Schumacher won the title in 2002 with 6 races left.

This one seemed over six races in

Dcully

aaronh007 wrote: »

Dull... Never liked the Valencia track, even when playing it in a game. It's a boring, lifeless circuit built on the back of the success of a championship winning driver to get more money.

Roll on the next two great, classic circuits, Silverstone and then the Nurburgring

Nothing wrong with the track at all, the last few corners are simply spectacular.
Whats boring about it?

Glico Man

Dcully wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the track at all, the last few corners are simply spectacular.
Whats boring about it?

Very few possibilities for overtaking, this was one of the criticisms from the drivers in fact. Even the two DRS zones barely helped, although I suppose positioning wise they weren't the best. Last few corners? I presume you are talking about turns 22-24? 3 corners on that track are good, but it doesn't save it from its lifelessness.

I just find it dull. Even in F1 2010 I just hate it.