The Food Pyramid, Safefood and non-competition entries

Zamboni

<BOARDS.IE EDIT: This thread has been split from this one - the first thread is a competition with feedback on the video in the campaign - this is a bigger conversation around the Food Pyramid, safefood and other matters. No posts have been deleted by me from either thread - it will just be easier to keep all competition entries in one place - Darragh>

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SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

The problem is, the majority of GPs have little or no training in nutrition and their advice usually involves trotting out the food pyramid and the general RDA, which are partly responsible for our obesity problems in the first place.

You mean like the on the Safe Food website...

http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/The-food-pyramid/

g'em

Zamboni wrote: »

You mean like the on the Safe Food website...

http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/The-food-pyramid/

This really saddens me tbh. Dermot I don't know if your team really looked into this at all but that food pyramid model was largely discredited as long ago as 2002. The high carb, low fat eating plan is not an ideal one to advocate to Irish people because the quality of carbohydrates that we have at our disposal is so awful. You have people eating huge bowls of Special K for breakfast, brown bread sandwiches with lean processed ham for lunch and pasta with "low fat" sauces on them for dinner. Besides which if I recall correctly the original pyramid was backed by the American Grain Industry - hardly an unbiased resource for information.

There's an awful lot of misinformation regarding nutrition on the website that needs to be addressed.

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

If I recall correctly the original pyramid was backed by the American Grain Industry - hardly an unbiased resource for information.

US department of agriculture, I believe. So pretty much yah.

It always amazes me how seemingly qualified professionals rate it. If I hear someone describe it as being a good guideline re: what to eat, I pretty much disregard everything else they say, regardless of their other qualifications are because it's such a basic thing to get wrong that it totally discredits anything else that they say.

safefood: Dermot

In ROI, the Food Pyramid still represents the best thinking about nutritional guidelines - even the most recent review in the US has ended up changing very little, albeit they've redrawn the graphic as a plate - you can see it here: http://www.choosemyplate.gov/. In the UK, they use the Eatwell plate for their nutritional guidelines.

The fact is that most people don't refer to any nutritional guidelines - the most recent National Adult Nutrition Survey published earlier this year found that as a population, our average daily consumption of fruit and veg was less than half that of WHO recommendations, over 80% of adults still don't meet dietary fibre recommendations and our salt intake remains too high. This coupled with low levels of physical activity has led to the spread of overweight.

Red Cortina

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

The fact is that most people don't refer to any nutritional guidelines - the most recent National Adult Nutrition Survey published earlier this year found that as a population, our average daily consumption of fruit and veg was less than half that of WHO recommendations, over 80% of adults still don't meet dietary fibre recommendations and our salt intake remains too high. This coupled with low levels of physical activity has led to the spread of overweight.

Assigning the root cause of folks being overweight to:

• not eating enough fruit and veg and fibre
• high salt intake
• low levels of physical activity

over-simplifies the issue IMO. What about the industrialisation of our food chain? And the hyper-patability of said industrial food stuffs? Not to mind the poor nutritional quality of these foods?

cc87

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

In ROI, the Food Pyramid still represents the best thinking about nutritional guidelines - even the most recent review in the US has ended up changing very little, albeit they've redrawn the graphic as a plate - you can see it here: http://www.choosemyplate.gov/. In the UK, they use the Eatwell plate for their nutritional guidelines.

The fact is that most people don't refer to any nutritional guidelines - the most recent National Adult Nutrition Survey published earlier this year found that as a population, our average daily consumption of fruit and veg was less than half that of WHO recommendations, over 80% of adults still don't meet dietary fibre recommendations and our salt intake remains too high. This coupled with low levels of physical activity has led to the spread of overweight.

You cannot use anything the american goverment organisations come out with regard to nutritional guidelines, all their committees are full of people who have vested interests in the different large food companies being successful. Its not in their interests to try and change anything

A large problem i see is that any guidelines released are aimed at people of a healthy weight who are already active, i.e. the average person. Yet, sadly, the average person is overweight and not active in the slightest.

And for the food pyramid, its not as easy as saying one bowl of cereal. That could coco pops or porridge depending on the person. But there is a huge nutritional difference between the 2

Hanley

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

In ROI, the Food Pyramid still represents the best thinking about nutritional guidelines - even the most recent review in the US has ended up changing very little, albeit they've redrawn the graphic as a plate - you can see it here: http://www.choosemyplate.gov/. In the UK, they use the Eatwell plate for their nutritional guidelines.

See, that's worrying. I know your hands are tied personally, and to a large extent so are your organisations. No one wants to be the rogue group who goes against the status quo and recommends something that most people would perceive as harmful (high fat, low carb) even tho it's not the case at all. It's a shame that people are still being lead along the high carb path.

The fact is that most people don't refer to any nutritional guidelines - the most recent National Adult Nutrition Survey published earlier this year found that as a population, our average daily consumption of fruit and veg was less than half that of WHO recommendations, over 80% of adults still don't meet dietary fibre recommendations and our salt intake remains too high. This coupled with low levels of physical activity has led to the spread of overweight.

All that stuff is incidental really. Low levels of physical activity and the 'claim culture' doesn't help, but all that is doing is masking poor education and nutritional choices.

It's something that is near impossible to correct, and as much as it saddens me to say, I only see us gettin fatter as a population unless some articial food control measures can be created (pills etc).

Zamboni

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

In ROI, the Food Pyramid still represents the best thinking about nutritional guidelines

No it doesn't.
If anything it has probably contributed to the obesity epidemic by encouraging a high carbohydrate, low fat, low protein diet.
The fact it is rolled out on a public health website endorses this lifestyle.

El_Dangeroso

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

The fact is that most people don't refer to any nutritional guidelines - the most recent National Adult Nutrition Survey published earlier this year found that as a population, our average daily consumption of fruit and veg was less than half that of WHO recommendations, over 80% of adults still don't meet dietary fibre recommendations and our salt intake remains too high. This coupled with low levels of physical activity has led to the spread of overweight.

Oh Dermot, I do feel for you in a way as I don't know that you realise we do have a thriving community here of amateur nutrition science buffs.

It's not really good enough for you to say that 'this government body advises such and such' to us. Because we're read the actual trials behind a lot of the recommendations and very few of them back the recommendations up.

For example:

Did you know no trial on reducing salt consumption has ever resulted in more than a trivial drop in blood pressure? In fact the latest trial published in JAMA showed an increase in mortality for those adhering most closely to the AHA's recommendations for salt intake.

Fruit and vegetable consumption has increased steadily over the past 30 years (at least in data from the UK, I would presume Ireland is similar), but we were thinner 30 years ago. I'm not for an instant suggesting that fruit or veg contribute to weight gain. Just that increasing fruit and vegetables doesn't really prevent weight gain all that much.

Also when you say 'increase fiber intake' know that that is a very broad statement. If it's fiber from wholewheat for example that has been shown to increase mortality (DART trial) and reduce the half life of vitamin D. I know brown bread is better than white, but how about recommending cutting down on bread altogether? Most overweight people I know eat some form of wheat for breakfast, lunch and then dinner. Cutting down (not necessarily out) on this would reduce calories a lot without sacrificing that much nutrition. I think that's some low-hanging fruit that would actually make a big difference.

Also, if the Irish government could advise people to cut down on vegetable oil, which has been shown to increase inflammation (now seen as one of the leading contributor to obesity).

As a previous poster here said what is needed is a return to real unprocessed non-industrial food. Then you'll find the fat, fiber and salt will take care of themselves.

cc87

Zamboni wrote: »

To be fair to Dermot, he is probably a communications executive.
Nutritionists and other specialists tend to be muzzled in public health bodies.

I figured this myself but I was curious if he had nutritional experience because its not unusual to see people with a lot of experience giving terrible nutritional advice.

His colleague saying saturated fat is bad being an obvious point

nesf

safefood: Dermot wrote: »

In ROI, the Food Pyramid still represents the best thinking about nutritional guidelines

That goes against pretty much every serious article I've read in the scientific press over the past decade. There was one published in Scientific American in the past year (if memory serves) that went on lt length attacking the problems lying behind the Food Pyramid idea.

Theresalwaysone

Dermot:

If you could remind your colleagues (with the Ph.D in Nutrition) that you'd like their opinion on the saturated fat issue.

I'd like to hear their take on it and the studies they've been using to back up their views.

Cookie_Monster

This has turned into a really great thread

Never realised how out of date and plain wrong the food pyramid has been show to be.

fatmammycat

I'm curious, Aileen, why you use the food pyramid as a mode to follow, when it has pretty spectacularly failed as a model for healthy eating.

safefood: Aileen

Hi fatmammycat,

The model hasn't failed. It's based on the best available evidence - most of our food should be made up of complex carbs, we should eat plenty of fruit and vegetables, adequate amounts of protein-rich foods and calcium-rich dairy products, with limited amount of sweet and fatty foods. The problem is that most people don't eat like that. If we did, we wouldn't be faced with the public health issues that we are faced with now.

Obviously, there are many reasons why people struggle to eat healthily. The campaign is designed to make people stop and think about they diet and lifestyle and hopefully make some healthy changes.

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm curious, Aileen, why you use the food pyramid as a mode to follow, when it has pretty spectacularly failed as a model for healthy eating.

fatmammycat

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi fatmammycat,

The model hasn't failed. It's based on the best available evidence - most of our food should be made up of complex carbs, we should eat plenty of fruit and vegetables, adequate amounts of protein-rich foods and calcium-rich dairy products, with limited amount of sweet and fatty foods. The problem is that most people don't eat like that. If we did, we wouldn't be faced with the public health issues that we are faced with now.

Obviously, there are many reasons why people struggle to eat healthily. The campaign is designed to make people stop and think about they diet and lifestyle and hopefully make some healthy changes.

I think you will find it has failed- a great deal in fact. America, UK and here, we've been lumbered with the pyramid for quite some time now and as nations we are getting fatter. That fact that people would choose a junk filled cereal over eggs in the morning, or a low fat spread over butter is shocking to me, but only because I went out of my way to read some studies and learn about nutrition. I'm still no expert, but you guys are supposed to be, however thus far you have shown yourselves to be woefully behind on nutritional advice.

safefood: Aileen

Hi folks, it's true that dietary advice does change and evolve as new evidence emerges. This week the US moved from a Pyramid model to a plate model (the advice hasn't changed BTW, just the way in which it is communicated) and the Irish Pyramid is being revised currently.

Since governments are charged with the responsibility of communicating with millions of people on nutrition, advice does not change quickly, based on one study or another. All the international evidence is assessed by experts who then decide whether the balance of evidence merits any change to public health messages. Obviously this takes time.

I'm not going to get into further debate on the pros and cons of the food Pyramid because this discussion could go on forever. What we really are hoping to discuss here is the type of changes to diet and lifestyle that have occurred in the last 20 years or so as GerryCollins has described. Does that ring true to you? What are your experiences and what can we change?

Hanley

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'm not going to get into further debate on the pros and cons of the food Pyramid

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

what can we change?

There's your starting point.

You can't 'change' anything if the top level advice remains the same. People won't bother trying to fix their diet if they can say 'oh well the food pyramid says it's ok'.

TommyKnocker

Who knows though. Maybe switching from a triangular representation of incorrect information to a circular representation of the same incorrect information will cause peoples waists to get smaller and reduce the incidences of diabetes and obesity. We should know in another 20 years how successful this stratergy has been.

Roger Marbles

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi folks, it's true that dietary advice does change and evolve as new evidence emerges. This week the US moved from a Pyramid model to a plate model (the advice hasn't changed BTW, just the way in which it is communicated) and the Irish Pyramid is being revised currently.

Since governments are charged with the responsibility of communicating with millions of people on nutrition, advice does not change quickly, based on one study or another. All the international evidence is assessed by experts who then decide whether the balance of evidence merits any change to public health messages. Obviously this takes time.

I'm not going to get into further debate on the pros and cons of the food Pyramid because this discussion could go on forever. What we really are hoping to discuss here is the type of changes to diet and lifestyle that have occurred in the last 20 years or so as GerryCollins has described. Does that ring true to you? What are your experiences and what can we change?

I'd encourage you to have a look at this critique of the USDA guidelines whch was drawn up by experts and how flawed it is:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/02/04/the-new-usda-dietary-guideline/

COH

The best place to start would be to admit that governemnt policy in this regard has been a complete and continuing failure, the next thing to look at is why? In any other department the base information for which policy is based would have been thrown out years ago.

Imagine if the Dept. of Finance found that they had been basing their policy for the past 50 years on a chart (triangular or otherwise) that stated 2+2= yellow, or if the Dept. Foreign Affairs had been operating based on a triangular map that said France was land locked by Nepal. Or if the Dept. Health had been basing its policy on a food pyramid thats... oh wait

But it really doesnt matter because this campaign is already a success for the governemnt because it does two things. It lets them say 'we're being totally active on this, just look at all the money that we spent on our shiny new campaign'. Its also bulletproof, because the masterminds behind it refuse to take into account that their base info might be wrong. 'Ah sure the food pyramid has been around for AAAAAGES it cant be wrong sure theres no proof that its not'.... apart from increasingly fat population who have had the same guidelines for decades that is.

Go out and ask 1000 random people what any of the macronutrients are and what they actually do, show them your add, and ask them again...

Now give me my 100 euro

Zamboni

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi folks, it's true that dietary advice does change and evolve as new evidence emerges. This week the US moved from a Pyramid model to a plate model (the advice hasn't changed BTW, just the way in which it is communicated) and the Irish Pyramid is being revised currently.

I won't debate the use of the food pyramid with you but perhaps you could clarify who revises the Irish Pyramid?
Safefood? INDI? DOH?
Or it is it a representative panel from various bodies?
If so, could you list the members of the panel?

Thank you.

cc87

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi fatmammycat,

The model hasn't failed. It's based on the best available evidence - most of our food should be made up of complex carbs, we should eat plenty of fruit and vegetables, adequate amounts of protein-rich foods and calcium-rich dairy products, with limited amount of sweet and fatty foods. The problem is that most people don't eat like that. If we did, we wouldn't be faced with the public health issues that we are faced with now.

This is my last comment on this thread as IMO, this is the safefood.ie equivalent of sticking fingers in your ears saying i cant hear you

nesf

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'm not going to get into further debate on the pros and cons of the food Pyramid because this discussion could go on forever.

This should be ringing alarm bells for you. You come onto a mainstream Health and Fitness forum and not a single person backs the model you propose to guide nutrition. Does this not strike you as very odd? Surely if the model you were proposing was a good idea then it'd at least have a sizeable minority backing it on a forum like this?

safefood: Aileen

nesf wrote: »

This should be ringing alarm bells for you. You come onto a mainstream Health and Fitness forum and not a single person backs the model you propose to guide nutrition. Does this not strike you as very odd? Surely if the model you were proposing was a good idea then it'd at least have a sizeable minority backing it on a forum like this?

I'd have to say Nesf that some of the opinions being expressed here are not at all 'mainstream'.

Roger Marbles

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'd have to say Nesf that some of the opinions being expressed here are not at all 'mainstream'.

Really?

http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=chd+cvd&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

There is a major difference between mainstream and what is actually based on evidence. Unfortunately, a lot of governmental bodies across the world including Irish ones have confused the two.

safefood: Aileen

Zamboni wrote: »

I won't debate the use of the food pyramid with you but perhaps you could clarify who revises the Irish Pyramid?
Safefood? INDI? DOH?
Or it is it a representative panel from various bodies?
If so, could you list the members of the panel?

Thank you.

Hi Zamboni, the FSAI convened an expert group who developed a report for the Dept of Health. The Dept. of Health then combined the expert report with research with consumers to come up with a revised pyramid.
I have looked on the FSAI website but can't seem to find the list of members for the expert group. I imagine that this is because their task is completed, but you can contact them on http://www.fsai.ie/about_us/contact_us.html

Hanley

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi Zamboni, the FSAI convened an expert group who developed a report for the Dept of Health. The Dept. of Health then combined the expert report with research with consumers to come up with a revised pyramid.
I have looked on the FSAI website but can't seem to find the list of members for the expert group. I imagine that this is because their task is completed, but you can contact them on http://www.fsai.ie/about_us/contact_us.html

Makes ya wonder what kind of subliminal advertising is contained in the ad

Hanley

dr.bollocko wrote: »

The reality of the situation is that while the project is well-intended, the nutritional advice side of things is bogus and based on poor science.

As much as anything can be proven the weight of the science backs the claim that the food pyramid theory is flawed and this has not been addressed, merely dismissed.

Dismissing this as not mainstream ergo not worthy of your time is a further flawed approach.

That said feeling the urge to change anything now after all the marketing has been done, ads paid for, site designed etc. because of the misgivings of some anonymous people on the internet is probably also a non-starter. Which is a pity because in as much as anyone can say anything, your team of nutritional "experts" wrote a BS report.

FYP

Todd Gack

The first question on the safefood website (http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/)

What is a balanced diet?

The first answer;

Plenty of bread

:rolleyes:

Can only see things changing for the worse with this kind of ridiculous advice.

El_Dangeroso

Todd Gack wrote: »

The first question on the safefood website (http://www.safefood.eu/en/Consumer/Healthy-Living/Eating-Well/Eating-well1/)

What is a balanced diet?

The first answer;

Plenty of bread

:rolleyes:

Can only see things changing for the worse with this kind of ridiculous advice.

Jesus christ, I thought you were joking.

fatmammycat

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jesus christ, I thought you were joking.

So did I! Wow, that's just staggering.

Hanley

So.... would we all agree that safefoods is promoting a dietary approach that will increase obesity and is damaging to long term health?

How much did those experts cost ya? I'll sell you that advice for 100 bucks.

Tefral

Surely the fact that if drop a fresh white slice of bread into a bit of water and watch the bread turn to glue would scare anyone off it?!

I cant actually believe that the poster above was telling the truth. Scary stuff altogether.

gavtron

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

I'd have to say Nesf that some of the opinions being expressed here are not at all 'mainstream'.

EXACTLY! the 'mainstream' is wrong...you've got on this forum dozens of people who have actually taken the time to read research papers, unlike your experts who, if they are like any of the dietitians I've argued with over the years won't consider anything they didn't learn in college or hasn't been in a peer reviewed journal.
Like others here, I had high hopes when some of the people from safefood came on here to have some discourse with us but trotting out the company line on everything is really annoying. I know personally you guys can't say anything, but it's just like talking to Ryanair...stubborn as fcuk.

menoscemo

The new fangled 'eatwell plate' also recommends plenty of Bread. There is also a nice picture of a box of cornflakes and a glass of orange juice included in the larger portions of the plate.

El_Dangeroso

gavtron wrote: »

won't consider anything they didn't learn in college or hasn't been in a peer reviewed journal.
L.

The problem is they haven't read enough peer-reviewed papers. If they had they would know that there is little evidence to recommend reducing sat fat.

Or maybe they have and they're hamstrung by orders from above.

I know some registered dieticians that are not allowed to say what they really think to patients.

Hanley

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

In simple terms, to eat a balanced diet you need to combine several different types of foods - from each of the main food groups - in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight.

This means you should eat:
-Plenty of bread, rice potatoes, pasta and other starchy foods

[...]

Any chance we could have this discussion without being misquoted?

How much is "plenty"?

nesf

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

In fairness, here's what it actually says on our website:

Eating well is important for all of us. In the short-term, it can help us to feel good, look our best and stay at a healthy weight. And in the long-term, a healthy, balanced diet can reduce our risk of heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis and some cancers. But what exactly is a healthy, balanced diet?
In simple terms, to eat a balanced diet you need to combine several different types of foods - from each of the main food groups - in the right amounts so your body gets all the nutrients it needs while maintaining a healthy weight. This means you should eat:

• Plenty of bread, rice potatoes, pasta and other starchy foods
• Plenty of fruit and vegetables
• Some milk, cheese and yoghurt
• Some meat, fish, eggs, beans and other non-dairy sources of protein, and
• Just a small amount of foods and drinks high in fat and/or sugar

Separate dietary guidelines are used in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These guidelines use different visuals: in the Republic of Ireland the Food Pyramid is used and in Northern Ireland the Eat Well plate is used. Click on the model that applies to where you live.
More about the Food Pyramid and nutritional recommendations in the Republic of Ireland

Any chance we could have this discussion without being misquoted?

Do you not see a problem with recommending complex carbs on one hand and then recommending just "bread, pasta and rice" on the other? I mean I'd have far less (though I'd still have some problems) with recommending plenty of wholegrain bread and pasta and brown rice. Because how it's worded at the moment will have a guy walk off and start scoffing white sliced pans and loads of plain pasta which is really not a good idea nutrition-wise.

Also, aren't you unclear on things like nuts because you recommend them on one hand as a non-dairy source of protein and rule them out on the other as being high in fat even though it's very hard to say that eating a decent amount of nuts a day is a bad thing for a person diet wise.

Zamboni

safefood: Aileen wrote: »

Hi Zamboni, the FSAI convened an expert group who developed a report for the Dept of Health. The Dept. of Health then combined the expert report with research with consumers to come up with a revised pyramid.
I have looked on the FSAI website but can't seem to find the list of members for the expert group. I imagine that this is because their task is completed, but you can contact them on http://www.fsai.ie/about_us/contact_us.html

Is this the evaluation that you mentioned?

http://www.fsai.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10292
M McFEELY, CM O’BRIEN, SJ BURKE and MAT FLYNN


And if so, is this the new revision?

http://www.fsai.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10293
NM DEVANEY, CM O’BRIEN, SJ BURKE and MAT FLYNN

Thank you

Zamboni

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah. I'm going to respectfully bow out at this stage because I'll just start sniping otherwise.

There's no point even trying to debate the facts because no one is listening. They seem to have just come here for a pat on the back.

Yep.
I've been doing my best to hold off judgment but eventually self restraint breaks down.

From keeping an eye on Publicjobs.ie dieticians tend to start at around the €50,000-€60,000 bracket.
There are very well paid people in the various bodies doing a lot of nothing.
The bodies appear to overlap in some areas.

Minister for Public Expenditure Brendan Howlin is looking for public submissions on how to reduce expenditure in the public sector.
I have no doubt that there are some excellent staff and work in these public bodies but this is clearly an area that could be examined considering these bodies Dept Of Health, FSAI and north/south bodies like Safe Food (all funded by the tax payer) are clearly failing in their remit to address the obesity epidemic in any real sense.

From a simple comparison, since the introduction of the food pyramid in Ireland obesity has soared.
So either the food pryamid is wrong in which case its advocates should be assessed or the food pyramid is right and communication has failed in which case its advocates should be assessed.
Either way the bodies with the remit to address the area of obesity are ineffective.


On another aside,
If you would like a good read have a look at the important items from the minutes of the SafeFood Advisory Board.

http://www.safefood.eu/en/About-Us/Who-we-are-2/Advisory-board/Advisory-Board-Minutes/

They tend to be concerned about things like if the public prefer imperial over metric measurements...

cc87

Zamboni wrote: »

On another aside,
If you would like a good read have a look at the important items from the minutes of the SafeFood Advisory Board.

http://www.safefood.eu/en/About-Us/Who-we-are-2/Advisory-board/Advisory-Board-Minutes/

They tend to be concerned about things like if the public prefer imperial over metric measurements...

Whats worse is look at the advisory board members background
http://www.safefood.eu/en/About-Us/Who-we-are-2/Advisory-board/Advisory-Board-Members/

Closest thing to any form of nutritional qualifications is a fruit scientist.
Full of politicians and PR BSers

Roger Marbles

I think we can safely say this will be the first safefood competition where nobody wins the 100 euros.

Check the "facts" indeed.

Zamboni

Roger Marbles wrote: »

I think we can safely say this will be the first safefood competition where nobody wins the 100 euros.

Check the "facts" indeed.

Or they could buy every poster on this thread a bagel

Blatter

Zamboni wrote: »

Or they could buy every poster on this thread a bagel

Smothered in Flora

Tirabaralla

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Smothered in Flora

Can I haz unsalted butter?

gavtron

Hanley wrote: »

Now... what POSSIBLE reason could the chairman of the board have for favouring grains as the main source of dietary calories.

This reeks of corrupution in the same was the original food pyramid did.

yup, agree totally, i'm pretty sure safefood didn't expect this kind of reaction either. like you said looking for a pat on the back...

Frogdog

To fellow Boards members,

• We know that there's a lot of misinformation and bad advice about nutrition in the public domain.
• We know the Food Pyramid is wrong. It's been proven scientifically and it's been proven by our own changes to our diets and the results we've seen.
• We know SafeFood's recommendations are wrong and that they are relying on the misinformation out there.

Let's try turn this thread around. If it gets locked, we can set up a new one in a more suitable location, if needed. What can we do to educate the masses? Letters to SafeFood themselves, other public health bodies, politicians, newspapers, phone shows? Would they fall on deaf ears (like we've seen here already)? I've tried educating family and friends, but because of the misinformation out there, I find it very hard to convince them fully.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to what we can do?

TommyKnocker

Frogdog wrote: »

To fellow Boards members,

• We know that there's a lot of misinformation and bad advice about nutrition in the public domain.
• We know the Food Pyramid is wrong. It's been proven scientifically and it's been proven by our own changes to our diets and the results we've seen.
• We know SafeFood's recommendations are wrong and that they are relying on the misinformation out there.

Let's try turn this thread around. If it gets locked, we can set up a new one in a more suitable location, if needed. What can we do to educate the masses? Letters to SafeFood themselves, other public health bodies, politicians, newspapers, phone shows? Would they fall on deaf ears (like we've seen here already)? I've tried educating family and friends, but because of the misinformation out there, I find it very hard to convince them fully.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to what we can do?

Hi Frogdog

I think that could be an interesting topic but I would suggest setting up a new thread for your suggested topic, and I say this for the following reasons

• This thread has a life span of June 30th, at which pont it will be closed.

• It would keep the posts in each thread together and on topic and save
  • Having to open a new thread when this is eventually closed
  • Save wasting a moderstors time asking then to trawl through this post and move the posts relevant to your topic to the new thread.
• Both threads would b easier to read as I think 2 separate discussions in the one thread would be a nightmare.

sambuka41

cailin_donn wrote: »

I remember first seeing this ad on telly one night and it's very effective. I actually felt a bit sick. It guilted me into going for a walk, so I do think it's a great ad and it's about time awareness was raised for weight issues in Ireland, I've been to Australia before and there's not half as many obese people there as over here. They have a much healthier lifestyle and attitude, my relations over there get up early to go to the gym, i don't know any Irish person (myself included) who's that committed!

These two sentences worry me, for one no one should be guilted into changing their behaviour they should be empowered to change. Guilt is a piece of crap left over from the catholic church and its rule, something it seems that safe food have picked up on.

Secondly Australia, really?? You can compare Ireland and its piss poor weather to Oz, people over there have the opportunity to get out and exercise way more in those climates than here in the rain. I've tried to walk my dog everyday this week and she will not budge when its raining (she has sensitive ears and the rain can really bother her, so the vet says!!) So there was my chance to get a tiny bit of exercise gone. (not that Im really trying hard) Basically weather and availability of local resources like swimming pools should all be taken into account.

Tirabaralla

sambuka41 wrote: »

These two sentences worry me, for one no one should be guilted into changing their behaviour they should be empowered to change. ...

Secondly Australia, really?? You can compare Ireland and its piss poor weather to Oz, people over there have the opportunity to get out and exercise way more in those climates than here in the rain. I've tried to walk my dog everyday this week and she will not budge when its raining (she has sensitive ears and the rain can really bother her, so the vet says!!) So there was my chance to get a tiny bit of exercise gone. (not that Im really trying hard) Basically weather and availability of local resources like swimming pools should all be taken into account.

I quote EMPOWERED.

And secondly...Australia, really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Australia
Australia ranks 21st among the world "fattest" countries, Ireland ranks 103rd...

I suppose it depends at what you look at, if you go and take a look at the young surfers on the beaches they won't be fat. It's a matter of distorted perception, like many things, unfortunately.

And also this:
"Due to urbanization, more people are living in more dense environments, in cities where they are removed from traditional food sources and dependent on an industrial food supply," says Neville Rigby, director of policy and public affairs for the International Association for the Study of Obesity. Modernization is causing countries with small populations and few resources to depend on imported, often over-processed food. "The Western diet overwhelms, and many people are not genetically engineered to cope with this," says Rigby.

from this: http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat.html

Then we can talk about "the Western diet"...as I don't think it is necessarily so comprehensive of a concept.

Eat fresh, local, drink good water, eat mostly what you were born for, prepare at home as opposite to buy industially prepared food...etc etc not easy to do nowadays but worth a try.