Why have children now got so many conditions ?

Android 666

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes < I know that officially SNAs time is not handed out willy nilly , they are stretched to the limit and often give extra for such kids .

Which kids, the ones with 'a touch of hyperactivity'? I think byhookorbycrook is saying that SNA's time wouldn't utilised on kids who don't have a properly diagnosed condition.

byhookorbycrook

SNAs are not given to anyone without a proper diagnosis and even then lots of jumping through hoops and at the end of the day it is up to the SENO,no matter what the psychologist, OT or whoever else recommends.

flutterflye

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

SNAs are not given to anyone without a proper diagnosis and even then lots of jumping through hoops and at the end of the day it is up to the SENO,no matter what the psychologist, OT or whoever else recommends.

SNA's aren't given to anyone these days!

The local primary school here had a case where a boy in the school had a bad fall and was unable to walk or move much without assistance.
He had to remain out of school for months until he was mobile again.

byhookorbycrook

I know of a blind child in secondary who was asked under the SNA review to explain why they needed an SNA!!!!

Morag

Currently even if your child is refereed and accepted for assessment there is over a 1 year waiting list for that assessment to even begin and it can take 6 months and then after that supports such as SNA and recourse hours are put in place. It's a very long process and parent's don't under go it for the fun of all the paper work and the hours spent up at the clinics.

iamwhoiam

Android 666 wrote: »

Which kids, the ones with 'a touch of hyperactivity'? I think byhookorbycrook is saying that SNA's time wouldn't utilised on kids who don't have a properly diagnosed condition.

I am out of here , everything I say is being nit picked on .I am on the side of special needs kids and kids with ADHD and ASD . I spent most of my life with kids with special needs and all sorts of difficulties ,

Lady Chatterton

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I know of a blind child in secondary who was asked under the SNA review to explain why they needed an SNA!!!!

That is incredibly depressing. It's it an awful shame that SENO's weren't doing the bank regulator's job when bankers like Seanie Fitz lot the plot.

I understand that SENO's have a difficult job to do but they really seem to put teachers and parents through the ringer requesting medical report after medical report to show that a child really has a special need that is deserving of help. Special Needs kids are being deprived of much needed resources while the former banking regulator is enjoying his large pension and his €630.000 golden handshake. :mad: :mad: :mad:

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/euro630000-golden-handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-1635637.html

Elle Collins

DexyDrain wrote: »

I don't get your point? Are you saying children with disorders are indistinguishable from 'typical nasty bastards'? Why draw such a comparison?

No I'm not. I'm saying I know a couple of nasty violent spoiled-rotten little bastards whose parents would love nothing more than to be able to label them ADD/ADHD or any other combination of letters to excuse away their nasty bastardness!

J_E

In regard to your post OP, you raise some valid points but at the same time it's clear that you have little knowledge of disorders such as Asperger's Syndrome and you certainly seem to have no experience of being around children with such disorders. The level of ignorance in this thread in general is little worrying to be honest. Maybe if you had a brother, sister, or child who genuinely had such conditions you'd be a little less hasty to let your tongues loose.

DexyDrain

I guess what I am trying to say is that violence, nastiness and being spoilt rotten are not characteristic of ADD/ADHD. Impulsivity, yes, inattention, yes, hyperactivity, not always. People with these disorders are no more or less likely to be unlikeable, anti-social, bullying or violent. When given proper treatment and strategies these children approach more typical behaviours and functioning whereas nasty brats would still be nasty brats on hyperdrive.

Only in the last 60 or 70 years are people surprised that anti-social, loud, violent and bullying people have anti-social, loud, violent and bullying kids, all else equal. Twin studies and adoption studies show adopted children are no more like the siblings their grew up with and shared parents with than strangers picked at random on major personality traits. Likewise, identical twins raised apart are far more like each other and their biological parents than their adoptive families.

We have as a society adopted the myth that parenting shapes personality, it can shape behaviour in the short term in specific contexts (at home or in parents presence), but over the long term and in broad terms, it matters much less than heritability and the wider social environment outside the home.

flutterflye

Seriously though, do you all have any idea what it is like for parents, family, and friends of kids with these disorders?
Never mind for the kids themselves!

Every single trip outside the house - to the shop to get milk, petrol station, going for a walk, to the bank, the doctor, and so on... is such a struggle.
It is emotionally, mentally, and physically exhausting to leave the house.

Unfortunately, you have to though.
And even more unfortunately, there are other people out there.
People who never fail to stop and stare, give judgmental looks, tut, and make snide comments.

It's not just oul biddies either, it's everyone of every age, and all their judging eyes are on you, your child, and your parenting.

They don't have anything visible wrong with them, so of course people jump to conclusions.

I hope that somewhere in the near future, people take the time to stop and consider the possibility of an underlying neurological disorder affecting the childs behaviour, and realise it is hard enough on the struggling mother, without adding to it by gawping at her.

CD.

tommyhaas wrote: »

No. No you haven't. What I was implying is that I don't believe that half the people claiming to be dyslexic actually are. I think a good portion are just lazy

Similarly with ADHD. Unless there's been some sort of an epidemic, I reckon a good portion of parents claim their child has ADHD, when infact the kid is just a brat

But how do you know?

I am dyslexic. when it was diagnosed my parents were told i would be lucky if I could read three letter words by the end of the year.

A year later I was not only able to read compitently, but I was several years ahead of my class in reading comprehension and ability. Most people do not know I have dyslexia or are suprised when they find out.

But, in saying that, it is not always the case that someone can improve so dramatically, i was very, very, very lucky in that my parents worked very hard in order to allow me to get to that level. during that year, and beyond it, i had special needs classes in school, i had a tutor 3 times a week along with night classes from the dyslexia association. As well as help from my parents on days when i had none of these

Despite that i still have moments where i misread something, particularly if i am tired or stressed or have been reading for a long time. my spelling ability goes to shite after an exam and for the rest of the day i make really fundamental mistakes.

I know another person who is dyslexic who did not have that kind of support and left school as soon as they could, they cannot read very well, they had nightmares about school, but despite this they are still very intelligent.

You can't just assume that every person, or every other person, who says they have dyslexia is just being lazy. I cannot imagine someone claiming to be dyslexic because they have a few spelling mistakes here and there.

Lady Chatterton

flutterflye wrote: »

Seriously though, do you all have any idea what it is like for parents, family, and friends of kids with these disorders?
Never mind for the kids themselves!

Every single trip outside the house - to the shop to get milk, petrol station, going for a walk, to the bank, the doctor, and so on... is such a struggle.
It is emotionally, mentally, and physically exhausting to leave the house.

Unfortunately, you have to though.
And even more unfortunately, there are other people out there.
People who never fail to stop and stare, give judgmental looks, tut, and make snide comments.

It's not just oul biddies either, it's everyone of every age, and all their judging eyes are on you, your child, and your parenting.

They don't have anything visible wrong with them, so of course people jump to conclusions.

I hope that somewhere in the near future, people take the time to stop and consider the possibility of an underlying neurological disorder affecting the childs behaviour, and realise it is hard enough on the struggling mother, without adding to it by gawping at her.

Flutterfly, I can understand and appreciate everything you are saying, my cousin has a five year old son with autism and he is such a beautiful child, he has great manners and is well behaved, he also looks like a "typical" child of his age. However, when he goes to supermarkets or any new environment, he can get very distressed and overwhelmed by the noise, bright lights etc. For on-lookers, he just look like another child having a meltdown but he is in real distress.

My daughter is the same age, so my cousin and I often team up to go on day trips, what I notice is that when my cousin's child gets very upset and people stare, she simply tells them that he has autism. To be fair most people are normally very embarrassed and some will go out of their way to help. I do remember one old lady saying "well it is obvious that he has special needs" before marching off. You will always come across some ignorant people but that is their problem.

Dudess

CD. wrote: »

But how do you know?

Stating something as fact based on nothing but assumption... you'll find that a lot here.

Twee.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think it very fair for some posters to doubt some cases .Of course there are very genuine cases and of course there are many who find it a struggle .But there are also kids who simply need good parenting and a bit of discipline and in fact these kids are diluting the available help for those who need it . There are kids in every class in every school who take up so much resources becasue the parents simply havent done their job properly .These resources could be channeled to those genuine kids who need it ,

Yes and I'm saying that if these people don't believe that such conditions exist that their kids will just get disciplined for being "bold" and given a smack on the arse to behave themselves when really they have something deeper that needs to be addressed. They're the kids that get left behind, sitting in the bold corner for half the school day for their behaviour that, unfortunately, they can't control.

We seem to be talking about a few different things here - kids who have ADD/ADHD, kids who don't and are just the result of bad parenting, and people who refuse to believe that these conditions exist. Our points are getting jumbled in it all!

You see it on Supernanny, wild uncontrollable kids, hitting, swearing, the whole lot. They are transformed into angels in two weeks. That's just because they were bad kids! You can't train a kid out of ADD in two weeks.

byhookorbycrook

Bold corners don't exist in any school I know of and most teachers would be tuned into various types of conditions these days. Whatever the reason a child who has behaviour issues is not likely to be left on the sidelines.Interventions will be made.

Naikon

Until someone can step forward and provide a specific example of the pathophysiology for ADD/ADHD, I am going to go out on a limb and say these "disorders" are ficticious. Prove me wrong.

Can you find these examples in a general reference source similar to the following article? http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview

Lady Chatterton

Naikon wrote: »

Until someone can step forward and provide a specific example of the pathophysiology for ADD/ADHD, I am going to go out on a limb and say these "disorders" are ficticious. Prove me wrong.

I know how I'd like to respond to your post but I'd be banned.

Naikon

MrsD007 wrote: »

I know how I'd like to respond to your post but I'd be banned.

Decisions decisions...

Chuck Stone

Naikon wrote: »

Until someone can step forward and provide a specific example of the pathophysiology for ADD/ADHD, I am going to go out on a limb and say these "disorders" are ficticious. Prove me wrong.

Can you find these examples in a general reference source similar to the following article? http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview

I'll have a crack off this. (how's it goin? ).

There is no actual pathogen like a germ or virus and there is is no observable deterioration like you might see with osteoporosis.

When they say A.D.D. they are talking about observable behaviour which deviates from centre spectrum if you catch my drift.

We seem to have a problem with diagnosing children who are not far from centre spectrum. This may be a combination of poor medical standards and poor parenting (parents seeking an excuse).

Now I'm as uncomfortable as you are with labeliing but when a child does present with extremely challenging behaviour how do you communicate it to others without using some sort of language?

I would ask how do we deal with parents/teachers who are at their wits end with a child showing very challenging behaviour?

flutterflye

Naikon wrote: »

Until someone can step forward and provide a specific example of the pathophysiology for ADD/ADHD, I am going to go out on a limb and say these "disorders" are ficticious. Prove me wrong.

Can you find these examples in a general reference source similar to the following article? http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/163062-overview

I didn't think there was any insinuation here, or in general, of the existence of pathophysiology in adhd?

Naikon

flutterflye wrote: »

I didn't think there was any insinuation here, or in general, of the existence of pathophysiology in adhd?

So, without an underlying biological basis, it's safe to say ADHD does not exist as a disease? I am still searching...

Morag

It's a condition not a disease.

Naikon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Now I'm as uncomfortable as you are with labeliing but when a child does present with extremely challenging behaviour how do you communicate it to others without using some sort of language?

Presenting it as an "illness" is the issue here. I would not mind if ADD/ADHD was just a euphemism for "little bastard", but it's being presented as well understood on their part. This is wrong.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I would ask how do we deal with parents/teachers who are at their wits end with a child showing very challenging behaviour?

A clip around the ear

Maddox explains: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

/joke

Naikon

Sharrow wrote: »

It's a condition not a disease.

Mental Illness as defined by the DSM does not recognise ADHD as a condition. Here is the label used:

neurobehavioral
1. Of or pertaining to the assessment of a person's neurological state by observation of his or her behavior

Herein lies the problem. Where are the lab tests/imaging? Oh yeah, they don't have any.

DexyDrain

Naikon wrote: »

Mental Illness as defined by the DSM does not recognise ADHD as a condition. Here is the label used:

neurobehavioral
1. Of or pertaining to the assessment of a person's neurological state by observation of his or her behavior

Herein lies the problem. Where are the lab tests/imaging? Oh yeah, they don't have any.

I'm pretty sure there was imaging work on ADHD done right here in Dublin at Trinity College within the last few years, I will dig out what I can find on it.

Lady Chatterton

DexyDrain wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there was imaging work on ADHD done right here in Dublin at Trinity College within the last few years, I will dig out what I can find on it.

Dexydrain, is this what you were referring to?

http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/image-project.php


http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/adhd-genetics.php


http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/star-study.php

Naikon

MrsD007 wrote: »

Dexydrain, is this what you were referring to?

http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/image-project.php


http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/adhd-genetics.php


http://www.medicine.tcd.ie/neuropsychiatric-genetics/adhd/star-study.php

Any interesting updates yet?

DexyDrain

Thanks for those links, they are doing interesting work there. This is part of the research I was thinking about that has been documented: https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/289884/1/Braet+et+al+2011+DAT1+SART+ADHD+paper+preprint.pdf

the groutch

I definitely think there's alot of people using these "conditions" to diguise their bad parenting