Gamsat 2012

einstein123

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

wtf is a science based health professional. why didn't you get a 2.1 in your degree if you're so clever. the rules are set in stone, they won't make exceptions for people who can't get a 2.1 in their degree (and why didn't you get a first in your msc?)

there is no injustice. you're not clever enough to get a 2.1 in a degree easier than medicine how to you expect to pass a medical degree? Here is who you contact with your 2.2. degree enquiries@sgul.ac.uk

Accept it, no more denial, no more personal insults, no more rants, no more raving. You will not be attending grad med in this country, why did you even do the gamsat? go the hpat route or go to london. discussion over.

Wrong on all counts there buddy.
I haven't ranted n raved or insulted anyone.
The only person doing that seems to be you.
I put my case up on this forum, no biggie, no need for personal insult hysterics.

You remind me of a good example of that saying;
"Never argue with an idiot because they'll drag you down to their level and beat you experience - everytime".

PeadarGalway

Bella84 wrote: »

With regards to my situation, I have to say that I found the science very interesting and I thought I was well able to absorb it, my frustrations stem from the fact that I only had six weeks of part time study so concentrated on O Chem (which I could write a book on....maybe not) and the usual acids/bases, rates, equilibria etc. To sit the exam and find that the topics studied hadnt come up was my issue, not that I struggled with the actual learning. I often found myself browsing through Guyton and Hall's phisiology book just for fun really (geek alert!!)

What did other people think? Was it that ye found the sciences tough to assimilate or that ye were just pissed off that the usual topics didnt arise?

I loved learning the science, I think if you don't then perhaps medicine isn't for ya, maybe that is the one good think GAMSAT can tell ya! I was really disappointed that hardly any of the typical areas came up. I had no "hey Mr examiner, look what I can do" moments at all! Same with the uber geekiness here, I had to stop myself spending waaaaay too much time on anatomy and physiology etc.. perhaps I should have - might have come across the osmolarity of bats urine if I had or whatever the bloody question was

Where did you sit the gamsat bella? The atmosphere in RCSI was fairly dour afterward despite the sunny weather

Bella84

I think this is relevant to Sandra's point above. I really feel for you Sandra, as I do for anyone who struggles and is feeling the pressure. May I ask why it is that you feel it is so tough, if you dont mind expanding??

Do you think you would be doing much better if you had studied the science more for the GAMSAT before applying to med school? Or is the PBL the problem.

My own opinion is that there are two types of people:

Science grads/people who have a natural affinity to learn science.

Arts grads/people who just dont have the "wiring" to study science and have talents in other areas.

In my opinion, if one doesnt have a natural affinity and interest in the sciences as well as the humanities, that person would save themselves a lot of stress and financial worry by accepting that a medical career is not for them. I'm not saying this specifically in relation to you because there could be any number of reasons you're failing, but I do think that when one studies for the GAMSAT, one should at least be able to assimilate the sciences.

Sat the GAMSAT in Limerick, Sections 1 and 2 gentle on me, but struggled with the science purely because I didnt have the basics such as Stoichiometry and Sig Figs etc. But abso found it fascinating and developed a new respect for the human body. If I had my time again I'd start from scratch with the Phys Chem and build it from the ground up.

einstein123

tiredcity wrote: »

It sucks. I always feel for people in this situation but you're not alone. The entrance requirements have been debated endlessly since I first started considering the gradmed route in 2008 and to my knowledge no exceptions have ever been made re: the 2:2 standard. It may seem unfair in the context of your own circumstances but they had to draw a standard somewhere and unfortunately through a bad situation as you tell it, you're the wrong side of it. You have to post down transcripts which ARE checked so there's no way round it. Crap as it is you need to consider your realistic options which are a) apply to the two UK gradmed colleges - with your background, work experience and great GAMSAT you should have more than a fighting chance or b) apply for mature entry. If you want this as much as you seem to, you will find a way eventually but they're super strict on the entrance requirements and generally people accept that before putting themselves through the gamsat. I do hope you get in through one of the alternative routes but you should probably start to explore those other options because based off similar past stories, musing on it leads only to frustration and isn't going to change. Best of luck!

Edited to add: Er, your subsequent edit did you no favours there in my eyes "How do I put this injustice right? Who do I contact?" doesn't make you sound like you have the right mindset about this at all. Every second person in our class has science PhDs or Masters and I'm still doing better than half of them as a non-sci. The start of first year was rough but believe me, I've caught up. The only debatable "injustice" as I see it was you fell out with someone influential to your grade. Unfortunately personality clashes happen constantly in even the limited environment of med school and you *have* to be able to surmount them in a productive way. I don't know who was wrong or right in that situation and you're obviously really frustrated but you seem to be alienating people here needlessly with the tone of your argument, though it is a valid enough question for debate in the greater context of GAMSAT.

Fair enough Tired city & thanks for the comments, the injustice bit was just me reeling inside I guess on reading the account of someone who says they are very much struggling in the UL PBL degree (and I stress PBL degree) because they have it seems little knowledge/background in Science combined with a poor Gamsat score.
Can you not understand how I could be frustrated?
I can picture myself really doing well in a PBL based degree environment that is all.

tiredcity

einstein123 wrote: »

Fair enough Tired city & thanks for the comments, the injustice bit was just me reeling inside I guess on reading the account of someone who says they are very much struggling in the UL PBL degree (and I stress PBL degree) because they have it seems little knowledge/background in Science combined with a poor Gamsat score.
Can you not understand how I could be frustrated?
I can picture myself really doing well in a PBL based degree environment that is all.

Of course I can understand your frustration but I also think it was extremely brave and honest of Sandra to be so frank about her difficulties and I'm pretty sure she didn't put that out there so you could argue how you'd have thrived in that environment! You probably would do well in PBL but as we've debated already, that route is not open to you in this country. Having a strong science background also doesn't guarantee success, particularly in a course such as UL which relies so heavily on good communication and clinical skills. I agree with you - as I said earlier for me the thought of going into a library with no real idea where to begin would have scared the crap out of me but the didactic method wasn't exactly roses either. We did cover the basic sciences in first year but if you read Biologic's post about our course, it was at an extremely accelerated rate so it was a lot of treading water and very little sleep. This year is like a holiday by comparison. Perhaps some UL students this year aren't suitable for medicine. I think the same could be said for any class, if we're really honest (and my particular cohort needed the highest GAMSAT points to date so it's not just a question of academics). I do believe there's a minimum aptitude in science which probably should be reached for fairness sake to start med school because otherwise you're throwing people to the wolves. The colleges obviously feel that the GAMSAT is sufficient for determining that point and we can argue all we like but until they change that, it's their decision. In the meantime, I respect anyone like Sandra who is finding it tough going but trying their hardest to make up the slack. Perseverance is an under-appreciated quality. Obviously if someone's genuinely never going to be up to scratch then I agree, they're best off reconsidering their options, but I really don't think we have the right to make that judgement for them, especially on the basis of our own accomplishments.

I'm not having a go btw. I know first hand how pressurised and crazy this whole process can be but, all going to plan, most of us will be colleagues some day and a bit of consideration for each other is important. Anyway, enough from me. Back to the books!

einstein123

My points were not a personal attack on Sandra (I thought I made that clear in an earlier post).
I still believe that the 2.1 requirment with no allowance for additional & proven academic achievment (e.g. 2.1 Masters & competitive Gamsat score) is an unfair and crude stipulation to the point of being farcical.
Yes of course a science background is no guarantee of success but is anything a guarantee of success?
Without question - you'd still have to put the work in.
I'll turn off the broken record now.
Cheers.

GOING4BROKE

@Einstein123 why not apply to Great Britain where some of the colleges do not require the 2:1 stipulation?

sam34

Einstein and UL heart throb, leave out the insults and personal comments please. no further warning.

GOING4BROKE

Does anyone have any idea what the official entry scores were for the four colleges in Ireland last year? I can't seem to find any definitive source on scores after the first round of offers.

Sorcha88

Hey guys

Im a first year in UL GEM and i would reiterate what others have said about the PBL course. Im from a science background and personally love it as i think it really suits my style of learning but i really do think that arts grads would be better of in a didactic-style course for their own sake. While there are plenty of sociology, law etc grads doing really well, there's no doubt they find it incredibly hard, and there are a lot who are seriously struggling!!
It's also worth remembering that we get very little pharmacology and biochemistry teaching in particular so unless you A) have a background in these subjects; or are extremely self motivated, you may be better off elsewhere.

Having said all of that, I personally love UL and wouldnt go anywhere else!

curadh

Sat the Gamsat last saturday in RCSI. I have a first in my undergrad degree, however didnt do chem or physics for the leaving, but got a B in biology hons. Thats over ten years ago by the way. Found going back to study the chem and physics waay easier to understand now as I was actually interested.
Unfortunately didnt have much time to study so only did some part time study over two or three weeks and then four or five intensive days.

RCSI was packed Id say at least 300. Section I was extremely difficult. I would say its impossible for a non english speaker to pass it. I ran out of time and had to guess about 40% of the remaining questions. I scratched 'malicious' for the neurosurgeon cartoon by the way? haha
Section II is hard to gauge how it will be marked. I did about a page and a half for each short essay with time to look back over them.
Section III was horrible. At that stage you're pretty wired so its tough to reason the science. My lack of preparation killed me, spent forever trying to just do the biology ones to begin with, with 30 mins left I had only done about 20% of the paper. At the end I scratched about 50 'c' questions and I'd say the girl beside me was laughing inside, she finished the paper and just sat there with ten mins left. Very impressive.

All in all I'm glad I sat it for the experience, its a great buzz. I can't imagine I'll pass section III but I expected that.

When are the results out? Why are some people saying they'll try in London in September, is that to attend graduate med in england? I feel like Ive had a taste of it now and I like it a lot

Nanorman

GOING4BROKE wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea what the official entry scores were for the four colleges in Ireland last year? I can't seem to find any definitive source on scores after the first round of offers.

http://www2.cao.ie/points/GraduateMedicine2011-Round-0.pdf

Bella84

curadh wrote: »

Sat the Gamsat last saturday in RCSI. I have a first in my undergrad degree, however didnt do chem or physics for the leaving, but got a B in biology hons. Thats over ten years ago by the way. Found going back to study the chem and physics waay easier to understand now as I was actually interested.
Unfortunately didnt have much time to study so only did some part time study over two or three weeks and then four or five intensive days.

RCSI was packed Id say at least 300. Section I was extremely difficult. I would say its impossible for a non english speaker to pass it. I ran out of time and had to guess about 40% of the remaining questions. I scratched 'malicious' for the neurosurgeon cartoon by the way? haha
Section II is hard to gauge how it will be marked. I did about a page and a half for each short essay with time to look back over them.
Section III was horrible. At that stage you're pretty wired so its tough to reason the science. My lack of preparation killed me, spent forever trying to just do the biology ones to begin with, with 30 mins left I had only done about 20% of the paper. At the end I scratched about 50 'c' questions and I'd say the girl beside me was laughing inside, she finished the paper and just sat there with ten mins left. Very impressive.

All in all I'm glad I sat it for the experience, its a great buzz. I can't imagine I'll pass section III but I expected that.

When are the results out? Why are some people saying they'll try in London in September, is that to attend graduate med in england? I feel like Ive had a taste of it now and I like it a lot

haha, yep the musical neurosurgeon was "appalling", sure the auld one sitting on the bench had her mouth wide open :eek:. Results about the third week of May I'd say, always at the last minute it seems but within 8 weeks.

GOING4BROKE

Nanorman wrote: »

http://www2.cao.ie/points/GraduateMedicine2011-Round-0.pdf

Thanks Nanorman. Sitting on a score of 56 and seriously don't think that is improving after my last sitting. Was looking to blitz the exam, definitely did not go as imagined a few months ago after sitting the London test.

By all accounts there seems to be less interest in the test with more empty seats. Is it just wishful thinking or is the initial surge of interest over? Speculation now but where do people reckon points will end up?

DeadEight

curadh wrote: »

Why are some people saying they'll try in London in September, is that to attend graduate med in england?

You can sit the GAMSAT in the UK, Australia or Ireland. Results from any sitting can be used to apply to colleges which use the GAMSAT. The UK exam is in September, Ireland and Australia on the same day in March.

By sitting the UK exam you have your score before Christmas, and might be sitting on a score good enough to get you into any Irish med school. If you do not get a good score, there is a second chance to sit the exam in Ireland (or Australia) in March.

I met a few students in RCSI last week who flew over from the UK to get a second chance at the exam. I get the impression it's not that uncommon.

Bella885041

Hey I found this on a gamsat 2010/11 blog and thought it was a useful tool for predicting scores for 2012 graduate medicine entry.

The figures are based on the number of CAO applicants for that year (2011)... Turned out to be pretty accurate!
**********
RCSI = 30
UCD = 77
UCC = 25
UL = 95
Total GEM Places = 227 (equals exactly 33.3% of all applicants, a great number)
Total GEM Applicants = 680 (therefore 453 will miss out)

Therefore: 453/680 = 0.665 x 100 = 66.5%percentile. So, still judging by this years Gamsat Curve, everyone with a 55-56 and above should get a place somewhere. (this still doesn't include people with UK scores from september, but I can't see that being too big a factor)

*************

Jammyc

Bella885041 wrote: »

Hey I found this on a gamsat 2010/11 blog and thought it was a useful tool for predicting scores for 2012 graduate medicine entry.

The figures are based on the number of CAO applicants for that year (2011)... Turned out to be pretty accurate!
**********
RCSI = 30
UCD = 77
UCC = 25
UL = 95
Total GEM Places = 227 (equals exactly 33.3% of all applicants, a great number)
Total GEM Applicants = 680 (therefore 453 will miss out)

Therefore: 453/680 = 0.665 x 100 = 66.5%percentile. So, still judging by this years Gamsat Curve, everyone with a 55-56 and above should get a place somewhere. (this still doesn't include people with UK scores from september, but I can't see that being too big a factor)

*************

That's pretty cool, Im just wondering where they got the figures for the amount of applicants to grad med?

Roger_that

The percentile curves differ between every exam so is take this with a pinch of salt. Still an interesting analysis though.

From my POV I'd look to getting into the course that you want/suits you best. If its really what you want to do waiting a year isnt the worst thing in the world.

Heres hoping all the talk of less interest is true though, I sat it in London last year, got 62 and didn't sit it in Dublin as a result. If I don't get it I'll feel like such an idiot for not having another go even though I feel like getting better than that would be almost beyond me.

Good luck to everyone! It's a long wait for results

einstein123

GOING4BROKE wrote: »

@Einstein123 why not apply to Great Britain where some of the colleges do not require the 2:1 stipulation?

My wife is pregnant at the moment so the logistics of moving over would be tough on her. I'd prefer to stay here.

einstein123

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

wtf is a science based health professional. why didn't you get a 2.1 in your degree if you're so clever. the rules are set in stone, they won't make exceptions for people who can't get a 2.1 in their degree (and why didn't you get a first in your msc?)

there is no injustice. you're not clever enough to get a 2.1 in a degree easier than medicine how to you expect to pass a medical degree? Here is who you contact with your 2.2. degree enquiries@sgul.ac.uk

Accept it, no more denial, no more personal insults, no more rants, no more raving. You will not be attending grad med in this country, why did you even do the gamsat? go the hpat route or go to london. discussion over.

ciara84 wrote: »

because they actually studied in college means they deserve it a bit more than you

Well actually I'd prefer to listen to the experts and namely - the FACULTY HEAD of GEM Medicine at UL.
Who has in correspondance said that I have demonstrated the academic ability to do GEM Medicine both by the completion of a Masters and by the evidence of a GAMSAT score of 70.
Unfortunately it's the Higher Education Authority that determined the 2.1 level eight degree policy and UL are not in a position to over-ride this.
Now I'm on a mission with the HEA!

GOING4BROKE

Very interesting analysis. It is possible that the points for Limerick will overtake Cork due to increased interest in that particular style of teaching as well as the superb facilities. I guess its a fools game making any real speculations about it all. Nervous few weeks ahead of us all.

SandraNiD

einstein123 wrote: »

Well actually I'd prefer to listen to the experts and namely - the FACULTY HEAD of GEM Medicine at UL.
Who has in correspondance said that I have demonstrated the academic ability to do GEM Medicine both by the completion of a Masters and by the evidence of a GAMSAT score of 70.
Unfortunately it's the Higher Education Authority that determined the 2.1 level eight degree policy and UL are not in a position to over-ride this.
Now I'm on a mission with the HEA!

a mission you're bound to fail to be honest mate.

Flange/Flanders

Einstein, to be honest i find it a little strange that you haven't looked into mature entry into undergrad medicine in Any of the colleges. Surely with the aptitude and application you've shown, you've got a great chance of securing a place. Never mind focussing on the negatives, explore all avenues to achieve your goals

einstein123

SandraNiD wrote: »

a mission you're bound to fail to be honest mate.

My certainty is greater than your doubt - always.

einstein123

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Einstein, to be honest i find it a little strange that you haven't looked into mature entry into undergrad medicine in Any of the colleges. Surely with the aptitude and application you've shown, you've got a great chance of securing a place. Never mind focussing on the negatives, explore all avenues to achieve your goals

I have loooked into other routes and will be applying through the avenue of mature entry etc.
Unfortunately the places available this way are considerably less.
Hence my crusade to get the policy changed.
It's a negative that be turned into a positive if other 2.2 level eight degree holders with Masters/Phds can get the opportunity to compete on an equal footing with 2.1 result level eight degree holders.
Cheers Flanders and respect.

SandraNiD

einstein123 wrote: »

It's a negative that be turned into a positive

No positive to be taken in allowing 2.2 students to become doctors. sure the only thing they'd be fit for is being GP's or being coroners. LOL. probably need help tying their own shoelaces sure.

einstein123 wrote: »

if other 2.2 level eight degree holders with Masters/Phds can get the opportunity to compete on an equal footing with 2.1 result level eight degree holders.

they're not on an equal footing, that's the problem.

you didn't do well enough academically at your two opportunities to pursue medicine (Leaving Cert and Undergrad). When will you stop ignoring reality and accept that this cruel system isn't what's wrong, but that rather you're just not very intelligent and honestly aren't fit to pursue a career in medicine.

einstein123

SandraNiD wrote: »

you're just not very intelligent and honestly aren't fit to pursue a career in medicine.

You got a very poor score of 54 in the GAMSAT - barely scraping into GEM.
I achieved a score of 70 in the GAMSAT.
If I was you I'd concentrate on passing those exams you failed so badly instead of projecting your bitterness on the net.
You are trolling.

einstein123

SandraNiD wrote: »

had a serious drink problem a few years back. did a stint in bushy park and then was able to ''moderate it''

- From the "non drinkers group" forum.
1 day 14 hours ago.
No comment.

eyescreamcone

The entry qualifications should be a 2.1 in any degree in my opinion.
Second level 8 degree or Masters or PhD etc

After all it's not brain surgery... it's only medicine

Jammyc

****e troll is ****e.

Firstly, you're assuming that the op wanted medicine at the leaving cert, which may not be true. Ill be applying next year and I didn't want medicine then.

Secondly, your view of general practice as a booby prize shows your incredibly mature attitude toward your medical career.

Terrible troll.