Gamsat 2012

jtsuited

Biologic wrote: »

This isn't the way it works jt. The bell curves are nearly the same every year. Regardless of the difficulty of the exam, the same distribution of scores tends to get given out. That's what makes the scores comparable year on year. The drop last year was due to decreased interest and increased places I'd imagine. The good news is that if everyone this year found S3 difficult, then everyone's in the same boat and the relative scores won't be affected.
Congrats all. It's a disgusting exam but ye finished it.

last year, the curve was significantly moved to the left in comparison to previous years. a 61 would give you a 90th percentile last year, as opposed to what it normally would, around an 84th percentile.

Flange/Flanders

My concentration was completely out the window for section 1, I also thought that the passages were pretty long, boring and had a lot of very similiar questions. I was pretty down beat after it but i managed to clear that from my mind for section 2. Essays were grand, talked some ****e in them!

Section 3 was very mathsy rather than theory based if ye get me. Some hard bloody sums to do as well, lost complete track of my timings at the end so i had to blind guess about 20. Again was fried coming out of it. Im really hoping that the points drop again this year but if applications are about the same then i couldnt see it.

Myself and Declanmoffitt are thinking of getting onto UL and maybe UCC to see if we can get a tour of the facilities as i missed out on open day. If anyone has any interest, pm me.

LoveSick

Hi all,
I sat the exam in UCC, there were 62 seats and a few empty, so I guess there were about 55 of us. This was a huge in contrast to when I sat the exam in London in September 2010 when there were several thousands of us, 2,000 in my exam hall alone. I found yesterday to be more relaxed to London, just logistically everything was much easier, but I thought the invigilator rushed things a little and only said things as she thought of them like, including instructions. Also in London the invigilator decided to give us a toilet break between sections 1 and 2.
Regarding the test; section 1 was very text heavy, but it was the same in 2010 so I expected it to be. I ran out of time and roughly skimmed and guessed about 10 questions.
I scored 70 in section 2 last time, hoping to do even better I did the Griffiths Gamsat Essay course. I don't know if the course helped at all. The essay format was different in that they gave a definition of the topics and then 4 quotes based on nanny states and love. My first essay was ok, maybe... Essay two was very general with easy, familiar quotes. I found it very difficult.
Section 3 was brutal. Questions were on unusual topics with impossibly tricky twists. I guessed more than half...

Overall I don't know what to think. I scored 53 from my last go, hard to see how I could have improved upon that. I can't help but feel a little disappointed, but I wounldn't mind doing it again, I know I could do more study.
Can't wait but also very nervous about results already!

Podoc

I agree. Section III was a nightmare. Don't think anything that I could have studied would have helped me. Did the exam last year in Ireland and got a 57. I'm hoping this will be enough to get me into UL this year!! I won't be relying on yesterday's results anyway

Bella84

The wait is going to be horrendous, I'd be happy with a 56 or 57 because UL is my first choice anyway but I'm feeling very cynical at this stage. I'm permanently employed so luckier than most people who might be facing into unemployment in Sept though.

I've really found myself wondering why ACER have put such an emphasis on inviting application from graduates from all disciplines (such as arts) and then go off and set a paper that in my opinion, most of us who don't have a 1st degree in Science could even understand!!!! Doesn't make sense, if they continue like that grad med will die out sooner or later because Arts candidates won't even bother.

If I heard the invigilator right after lunch a couple of people didn't even return for Section 3. Was very text heavy.

leaoj

Bella84 wrote: »

The wait is going to be horrendous, I'd be happy with a 56 or 57 because UL is my first choice anyway but I'm feeling very cynical at this stage. I'm permanently employed so luckier than most people who might be facing into unemployment in Sept though.

I've really found myself wondering why ACER have put such an emphasis on inviting application from graduates from all disciplines (such as arts) and then go off and set a paper that in my opinion, most of us who don't have a 1st degree in Science could even understand!!!! Doesn't make sense, if they continue like that grad med will die out sooner or later because Arts candidates won't even bother.

If I heard the invigilator right after lunch a couple of people didn't even return for Section 3. Was very text heavy.

It was a very tough exam. I am a 4th year science ed student so I found it grand tbh, but can see how you would find it tough. I heard UL are going to lose 40 places next year because of cutbacks so the entry score is set to be up much closer to the other colleges 58, 59 etc.

Tbh, I doubt the existence of gradmed depends entirely on arts students. In fact I have a friend in 3rd year UL gradmed who told me the school were very disappointed with the arts students in the current crop of first years. Apparently the extremely low gamsat score last year meant some very poor students got into the course and have struggled to cope all year.

Podoc

Are you certain about UL cutting 40 places? That's me finished then!

Bella84

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in rumours, remember all the NUIG rumours regarding places a couple of years ago??? In any case, UL would hardly have put so much money and effort into building a new med school and then immediately cut 40 places, that would seem unlikely to me. Just saying....

In any case, in relation to the post above, I would say the following:

When I was speaking about " Arts Candidates" I was referring to all disciplines outside of science, of which there are many.

The current 3rd year UL students will have gained entry on a GAMSAT score of 57/58, which is not an astoundingly good result anyway (although defffo enough to be proud of, I'd be delighted). There isn't exactly a huge difference in terms of ability to cope between those students and those seeking entry this year on only two or three points less!!!!

And I think it's a little much to suggest that there are a certain number of "poor or dissapointing students" in UL due to the entry points dropping by a mere three points. All students in any of the med schools will have at least a 2:1 or 1st in a level 8 degree. And many people get a score in the mid fifties the first time sitting GAMSAT, it's not a reflection of who's a poor student or not.

Anyway, rant over, just saying is all!!!! Anyone who scores well enough to be offered a place should be proud of themselves and best of luck to all

GOING4BROKE

leaoj wrote: »

It was a very tough exam. I am a 4th year science ed student so I found it grand tbh, but can see how you would find it tough. I heard UL are going to lose 40 places next year because of cutbacks so the entry score is set to be up much closer to the other colleges 58, 59 etc.

Tbh, I doubt the existence of gradmed depends entirely on arts students. In fact I have a friend in 3rd year UL gradmed who told me the school were very disappointed with the arts students in the current crop of first years. Apparently the extremely low gamsat score last year meant some very poor students got into the course and have struggled to cope all year.

Do you have a source on if UL is cutting places? If that is correct then it is very worrying.

I got a score of 56 in the London sitting and will not have improved on it yesterday. I found section 1 and 3 a lot harder then london and I have no scientific background then. Only consolation I can take is I don't think I could have done much else to prepare for section 3.

agraphia

ericm84 wrote: »

Sat it in RCSI and there was 280 desk in the main exam hall (where I was), couple of empty seats.....not more than 20 or so tought. Then there were some other smaller rooms used too, would guess prob about 300 ish in Dublin????

Cork had 102 people I believe, wasn't there a third test center in ireland or was it just cork and dublin?

Bella84

Limerick too, I was there and there was maybe 80?? Maybe someone else can keep me honest on that one. Fair few empty desks at the back. My first sitting though and I was expecting way more people.

agraphia

Bella84 wrote: »

Limerick too, I was there and there was maybe 80?? Maybe someone else can keep me honest on that one. Fair few empty desks at the back. My first sitting though and I was expecting way more people.

Right so that's 80 in limerick + 102 in cork + about 300 in dublin, that's waaaaaaay less than I was expecting. add people who did their tests last year, take away people who were doing practice runs and don't want to pass this year, add foreign students applying to ireland, and you get:
a) a possible place in limerick
b) the place of your choice
c) it doesn't make a huge difference as there's still plenty people applying and you still need to get a sufficient average
d) the above does not supply sufficient information to answer this question.



couple more days and i'll remember that the test is over...

Stephan Grundy

Did this GAMSAT make anyone else think of the Kobayashi Maru? Or am I just suffering from a terminal case of geekitis, probably linked to ECSFES (Early Childhood Science-Fiction Exposure Syndrome)?

It was my first time, and I approached it oh so sytematically - going through all the Acer stuff and the GAMSAT Gold review book, listing the topics that appeared consistently and then the really significant ones that hadn't appeared (like the Krebs cycle) to concentrate on specially.
Big mistake - spent days on acids/bases, stereochemistry, and electricity, fr'instance, because those were topics that had appeared repeatedly and significantly. Instead I got vampire bat wee.

Section I was fine, seemed pretty typical to me. A few questions demonstrated the usual totally-subjective-interpretation b.s., but I was grateful not to see any of the loony sociology diagrams that had infested the practice material. The essay topics, no problem, pretty predictable range of stuff, though something as subjective as essay marking the way GAMSAT seems to do it always makes me cringe.
III was the test from Hell - I'd gotten about 75% on III in the dreaded Acer purple book, and really thought I was ready for it. Ha, ha, ha. The only thing giving me any hope at the moment is the number of other people who seem to have had the same reaction. Also, the sciences portion seems to have really changed its purpose from the original - they used to say that it was possible to get through on logic, because the object was to demonstrate your logical capabilities rather than your pre-existing science background; now, not only do you seem to need to know all the basic principles really well, but you have to be fluent at the calculations without a calculator.
At least this wasn't my last chance - not planning to enter until 2013, so I can have another go in the UK in September and then here again next March. And I did notice from reading last year's boards that that test was considered harder than the year before, and the cutoffs dropped significantly (RCSI was down to 59, so I'm guessing everywhere else was a bit lower than that). So even if we all get miserable scores, we're still all in the same ship. Which, apparently headed out on Saturday to rescue the Kobayashi Maru.

LNH86

Just wondering about the numbers that sat the GAMSAT this year and how many places are available...it was estimated above that approx 500 people (probably less though) sat the test between the 3 test centres, so how many places are there available between all the universities?
I think Limerick has 120? maybe I'm wrong on that?

agraphia

Stephan Grundy wrote: »

Did this GAMSAT make anyone else think of the Kobayashi Maru? Or am I just suffering from a terminal case of geekitis, probably linked to ECSFES (Early Childhood Science-Fiction Exposure Syndrome)?

It was my first time, and I approached it oh so sytematically - going through all the Acer stuff and the GAMSAT Gold review book, listing the topics that appeared consistently and then the really significant ones that hadn't appeared (like the Krebs cycle) to concentrate on specially.
Big mistake - spent days on acids/bases, stereochemistry, and electricity, fr'instance, because those were topics that had appeared repeatedly and significantly. Instead I got vampire bat wee.

Section I was fine, seemed pretty typical to me. A few questions demonstrated the usual totally-subjective-interpretation b.s., but I was grateful not to see any of the loony sociology diagrams that had infested the practice material. The essay topics, no problem, pretty predictable range of stuff, though something as subjective as essay marking the way GAMSAT seems to do it always makes me cringe.
III was the test from Hell - I'd gotten about 75% on III in the dreaded Acer purple book, and really thought I was ready for it. Ha, ha, ha. The only thing giving me any hope at the moment is the number of other people who seem to have had the same reaction. Also, the sciences portion seems to have really changed its purpose from the original - they used to say that it was possible to get through on logic, because the object was to demonstrate your logical capabilities rather than your pre-existing science background; now, not only do you seem to need to know all the basic principles really well, but you have to be fluent at the calculations without a calculator.
At least this wasn't my last chance - not planning to enter until 2013, so I can have another go in the UK in September and then here again next March. And I did notice from reading last year's boards that that test was considered harder than the year before, and the cutoffs dropped significantly (RCSI was down to 59, so I'm guessing everywhere else was a bit lower than that). So even if we all get miserable scores, we're still all in the same ship. Which, apparently headed out on Saturday to rescue the Kobayashi Maru.

I was more a star wars teen than a trekkie, so I was really relying on the force to get through this (hmm, what feels like the correct pattern of dots on the answer sheet...?). In this case I think it's good to remember that we are interested in percentile rankings, so if everyone struggled with S3, we may be in a higher range of results. As much as I love the bat-wee type questions, I went in with a relaxed attitude using this test as a practice run, which inevitably led me to running out of time, a silly mistake, because I got an interesting feeling overall that I wasn't doing too badly. However I'd had that feeling before on a practice test and scored dismally. So I think the gamsat will catch people off guard, which gives me hope that it is indeed an intelligence test as opposed to a science test, but it also looks like such a fantastic money-making scam that only gives test papers to high-cost preparation courses, and lambastes people year after year to fork out more cash.

strangeweather

I'm totally traumatised after it! It was horrific! I'm taking a small amount of solace in the fact that there were a lot of people who feel it was difficult too. I guess I'm going to put it down to experience and hope it will stand to me when I'm repeating in Sept!

I had done some practice tests, and had coped fairly well with timing. But a combination of nerves and absurdly long passages in section one, I completely messed up, blindly guessing about 20 (maybe more).

Nothing could have prepared me for the horror section three bestowed. I might as well have done no preparation and sat it blindly. Grrrrrrrrr all that work for nothing, I guessed at least 40 without even reading them, and the rest were just slightly more educated guesses. Shocking. A lot of totally bizarre questions . . . I conducted an experiment that evening to test one of them, I ate 4800kj of diner in a restaurant, drank 50litres of water and stuck a thermometer up my ass to see did it bring my temp back to normal.

Hope nobody is feeling too bad about it, I saw a girl in RCSI crying at lunch time! I think it's better to try and not worry about it now it's over and I'm pretty happy I actually sat it.

Bella84

God, I felt exactly the same, although in my case it was a bucketful of chinese food and 95 episodes of old Father Ted on DVD!!

I'm thinking now though that if ACER are going to COMPLETELY f*ck with the sample papers that we all paid a lot of money for they should at least produce new ones that show the actual content of the actual exam and not insist on rehashing the same old ones year on year, having sample papers was no good to anyone this year!

I, for example, was scoring about 77% on the practice papers Section 1, did nothing different in the real thing and had to guess about 10 at the end. Doesnt make sense.

I feel like sending them a highly aggressive e-mail but I fear it would make me sound bitter (which of course I am :mad:)

Look, if we all did ****, the scores wont be affected too much!!

leaoj

Tbh guys if you're having difficulty with the science then you're not cut out for gradmed.

Gamsat is the easy part.

That section three was fairly handy I thought. All my friends in gradmed say that gamsat is the easy part, biologic and doc2be say the very same on here.

As regards UL cutting places bella, canadian dollars paid for the medical school. Irish government dictates how many students can join the course via how many students they will get funding for. UL's places are being reduced, it's no secret the course is oversubscribed, but regardless the decision is coming from the government.

Unfortunately a three percentile drop in gamsat scores is a big difference. It's not the difference between 3 right&wrong questions. There are some very poor students in UL's current cohort of first years primarily due to the low gamsat score. Don't kid yourself into thinking that a 52 - 56 is a good gamsat score.

GOING4BROKE

leaoj wrote: »

Tbh guys if you're having difficulty with the science then you're not cut out for gradmed.

Gamsat is the easy part.

That section three was fairly handy I thought. All my friends in gradmed say that gamsat is the easy part, biologic and doc2be say the very same on here.

As regards UL cutting places bella, canadian dollars paid for the medical school. Irish government dictates how many students can join the course via how many students they will get funding for. UL's places are being reduced, it's no secret the course is oversubscribed, but regardless the decision is coming from the government.

Unfortunately a three percentile drop in gamsat scores is a big difference. It's not the difference between 3 right&wrong questions. There are some very poor students in UL's current cohort of first years primarily due to the low gamsat score. Don't kid yourself into thinking that a 52 - 56 is a good gamsat score.

Pretty flippant statement "Gamsat is the easy part." Do you have any experience of graduate medicine? My understanding from family members and friends that the hardest part of medicine has always been getting into medicine. I find it very hard to believe that the exams in med school all consists of 3 hour science exams with an average of 1.30 min per question... By all accounts the colleges do their best to keep people enrolled.

Also can you give a source as opposed to saying "it is no secret". Are you saying that they are cutting Irish places and replacing them with foreign places?

Bella84

You shouldnt speak for other people...

And I believe that at least one of those people you have referred to has freely admitted to struggling with the science for the first sitting of the GAMSAT and did 6 months of very committed study to gain a final score of 59? And that the person (who I admire very much) also admits to being "crap" at maths?

Having looked in detail at the 1st year medical school books I can safely say that the science is less maths based and much more stimulating once you get the GAMSAT out of the way.

Given that you haven't found your way to med school yet I dont think you're in a position to tell the rest of us whether were cut out for it or not.

Hopefully you wont arrive in UL in September.

Goodbye.

agraphia

leaoj wrote: »

Tbh guys if you're having difficulty with the science then you're not cut out for gradmed.

Gamsat is the easy part.

That section three was fairly handy I thought. All my friends in gradmed say that gamsat is the easy part, biologic and doc2be say the very same on here.

As regards UL cutting places bella, canadian dollars paid for the medical school. Irish government dictates how many students can join the course via how many students they will get funding for. UL's places are being reduced, it's no secret the course is oversubscribed, but regardless the decision is coming from the government.

Unfortunately a three percentile drop in gamsat scores is a big difference. It's not the difference between 3 right&wrong questions. There are some very poor students in UL's current cohort of first years primarily due to the low gamsat score. Don't kid yourself into thinking that a 52 - 56 is a good gamsat score.

I don't think people are saying that gamsat is harder than medschool, but at least at university you are given past exam papers and a fair list of what's expected on an exam. With what I'm getting from people here, the exam was very different in content than the scanty few exam papers that we paid a lot of money for (which is quite unfair i think). If the exam is supposed to be broken 40/40/20 or whatever, and it ends up way more biology, then that's not very fair, is it?
If acer actually released the exam papers then we could analyse the content properly, but methinks the secrecy of the organisation won't ever do that. Sure sure, it has to be like that because it's a serious exam for a serious discipline, but I feel sorry for people who gave equal treatment to organic chem when it's pretty obvious that it barely featured on the exam!

Nevertheless this gives me faith that it is indeed an intelligence test, and deliberately catches people off guard and examines their general knowledge and ability to operate under pressure, and I think this is a good thing. After all, I read dozens of board posts months prior to the exam saying "this is not about cramming science, it's about being comfortable with analysis under pressure."

leaoj

Bella84 wrote: »

You shouldnt speak for other people...

And I believe that at least one of those people you have referred to has freely admitted to struggling with the science for the first sitting of the GAMSAT and did 6 months of very committed study to gain a final score of 59? And that the person (who I admire very much) also admits to being "crap" at maths?

Having looked in detail at the 1st year medical school books I can safely say that the science is less maths based and much more stimulating once you get the GAMSAT out of the way.

Given that you haven't found your way to med school yet I dont think you're in a position to tell the rest of us whether were cut out for it or not.

Hopefully you wont arrive in UL in September.

Goodbye.

Then you don't disagree with me that Arts students are struggling; I'm not an uneducated arts basher, I have numerous friends in the UL grad programme and have done my homework on it. The course isn't suited to arts students. There's no biochem or microbiology taught or issued in the learning requirements. It will be very hard for non science grads to pick that slack up themselves. I don't know the person you are referring to; there's a clutter of people in UL who got in on poor gamsat scores and failed their christmas exams and most likely won't be there come next september (unless they have 25 grand to repeat)

Already sitting on a fairly comfortable score from the london exam. More than likely will have my pick of the colleges, will probably go to UL though seeing as I already know the place so well. Hope to see you in UL though. Will enjoy watching you struggle trying to learn the citric acid cycle and oxidative phosphorylation from scratch.

agraphia wrote: »

I don't think people are saying that gamsat is harder than medschool, but at least at university you are given past exam papers and a fair list of what's expected on an exam.

You don't get any past papers in UL.

agraphia

and the stereotype of arrogant doctors is safely maintained.

wherever i end up, I'd rather be with arts students who know what "ego" and "humility" means.

yeesh

Jammyc

leaoj wrote: »

Hope to see you in UL though. Will enjoy watching you struggle trying to learn the citric acid cycle and oxidative phosphorylation from scratch.

Thing is, TCA cycle and oxidative phosphorylation aren't conceptually difficult, they just require some understanding and lots of memorisation. What was on the GAMSAT, particularly the physics and chemistry, required understanding of an abstract concept in a small amount of time - in my opinion, quite unlike med/biomed etc.

strangeweather

leaoj wrote: »

Tbh guys if you're having difficulty with the science then you're not cut out for gradmed.

Gamsat is the easy part.

That section three was fairly handy I thought. All my friends in gradmed say that gamsat is the easy part, biologic and doc2be say the very same on here.

As regards UL cutting places bella, canadian dollars paid for the medical school. Irish government dictates how many students can join the course via how many students they will get funding for. UL's places are being reduced, it's no secret the course is oversubscribed, but regardless the decision is coming from the government.

Unfortunately a three percentile drop in gamsat scores is a big difference. It's not the difference between 3 right&wrong questions. There are some very poor students in UL's current cohort of first years primarily due to the low gamsat score. Don't kid yourself into thinking that a 52 - 56 is a good gamsat score.

That's absurd. How could you possibly be in a position to comment on someone struggling with the science in s3? That does not make them any less 'cut out' for gradmed. Didn't you say you are doing a science degree? Obviously you can't imagine how difficult it is to start from nothing and work your way up. Most of the people on here have worked very hard to prepare, your pretentious attitude is unfair. It's great you found it so easy but you are in the minority.

lonelywanderer

Haha that leoj fella is taking the piss surely? Nobody could be that pretentious and arrogant and be serious about it!

My money's on it being someone just on here to see what reaction they can get out of people.

Flange/Flanders

leaoj wrote: »

Then you don't disagree with me that Arts students are struggling; I'm not an uneducated arts basher, I have numerous friends in the UL grad programme and have done my homework on it. The course isn't suited to arts students. There's no biochem or microbiology taught or issued in the learning requirements. It will be very hard for non science grads to pick that slack up themselves. I don't know the person you are referring to; there's a clutter of people in UL who got in on poor gamsat scores and failed their christmas exams and most likely won't be there come next september (unless they have 25 grand to repeat)

Already sitting on a fairly comfortable score from the london exam. More than likely will have my pick of the colleges, will probably go to UL though seeing as I already know the place so well. Hope to see you in UL though. Will enjoy watching you struggle trying to learn the citric acid cycle and oxidative phosphorylation from scratch.



You don't get any past papers in UL.

Does this posting remind anyone else of that passage in sec 1 about the doctors having contempt for their patients?

strangeweather

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Does this posting remind anyone else of that passage in sec 1 about the doctors having contempt for their patients?

HAHAHAH!!

Bella84

Theres a leoj in every class guys, best to ignore him, how you fare out in med school will be up to the study you put in and your personal enthusiasm for the course.

I forsee a certain person doing quite well in the science section.......... and very very badly in the humanities, with those people skills.

Pathology was just created for these guys. They really make me fear for the nation!!!!

Total and utter loser, a waste of oxygen.

Bella84

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Does this posting remind anyone else of that passage in sec 1 about the doctors having contempt for their patients?

The guitar playing neurosurgeon??!!! Stalks me in my dreams!!!!

Thats made me laugh.:)