Council vote on new Westside Tesco

GekkePrutser

celty wrote: »

While I take your point about competition being good (Ryanair did bring down Aer Lingus prices, even though I hate the buggers) it's the very way this is being brought about that makes me angry.

It's not proper planning for this site to be foised on the locals as a 'hypermarket' just because our City Councillors defied the officials and rezoned it for a former FF Mayor.

It's not proper planning for it to be built across the road from the Westside SC, where businesses are already struggling. I don't think the Westside Dunnes is any great shakes but if that w as to close down when the Tesco's opens there would be no net jobs gain and we'd be left with a big shell of unused units.

As for the 'mainland', could you let us know where that is. I thought we are on the 'mainland'

I don't agree with the way it's being done either (and especially not with the location). I just don't feel bad for Dunnes. I think they're too big already. Who knows, the empty units could be taken up by something completely different, that would add something to the area.

Sorry by mainland I mean mainland Europe. Perhaps that's not the right term to use.

Every time I go home to Holland and go shopping I'm surprised how low the bill is at the checkout. Same goes for Germany. I don't know about the UK because I never go there.

The top supermarkets there are cheaper than Aldi is here. There is just much more competition there and you really feel it in your wallet.

Mrs OBumble

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Sorry by mainland I mean mainland Europe. Perhaps that's not the right term to use.

It's a fine term to use ... just expect that a few people here are still in the last century and haven't quite caught up with the fact that Ireland is now in Europe.






Back on topic - I'm struggling to think of anything more appropriate sort of building for a busy road like SQR - it's hardly suitable for housing or playgrounds or hopsitals, or anything else that needs quiet.

And what is wrong with having a supermarket within walking distance of houses, rather than absolutely everyone having to drive there. I live 100 metres from a supermarket, and think it's a fantastic place to be.


FWIW, I'm not totally sold on this proposal, but I don't agree with many of the things being said about it.

Does anyone know if the land is contaminated in any way? Furniture manufacturing must use glues and varnishes and the like.

galwaycyclist

JustMary wrote: »

It's a fine term to use ... just expect that a few people here are still in the last century and haven't quite caught up with the fact that Ireland is now in Europe.

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

Interesting point, if a bit OT, especially when you consider that GTI, Marys, the Jes & The Bish are within about 800m of each other (as the crow flys). The distances for the Mercy, Pres & Taylors Hill won't bee too much greater either. Only Enda's & Salerno seem to be well separated from the others.*

*the point is totally ignoring the grinds schools as not being relevant, if you can pay that much I don't care where you're sending your kids.

Of course, the possibility of moving/ building new schools brings up the question of suitable sites (e.g. wouldn't want to see a school in a retail park or industrial estate like Briarhill had to do when they were refurbishing).
I wonder if there are any plans for the Corrib Great Southern hotel site, it could be a good a site for a new school (right opposite the new cop shop if it ever gets built).

Worth a thread of its own perhaps (so as not to draw this thread o.t.)?

Jack_Plumber

Its wrong to say that RGData are using the term hypermarket in a incorrect way.

The definition from the Dept of the Environment is that a hypermarket: a ‘single level, self-service stores selling both food and a range of comparison goods, with net sales floor space in excess of 5,000 square metres.’

The proposed development exceeds the definition of a hypermarket.

antoobrien wrote: »

The hypermarket label was brought up by RGDATA to make this look overly large, when it isn't. It's a multi storey building that will probably take up less space than footprint of the existing factory - 65*130=8450 sq meters for what looks like a single storey building vs the proposed multi storey of approx 8,510 sq meters.

For a rough (but not fair) comparison imagine what GSC would be like if it were multi storey instead of across several buildings that have become linked together over time (GSC is well over 10,000 sq meters footprint).

Also I'm going to point out that Hypermarket doesn't refer to size, but essentially a one stop shop, which Dunnes Terryland has had pretensions of being for over 20 years - so the concept isn't exactly alien to Galway, even if the term hasn't been used here before.

Jack_Plumber

With respect, crossing the river these days is not done in a paddle boat! You drive half a mile and you're across the river. Of course, there are times when you're not moving very fast... and this is proabably when galwaycyclist whizzes by!

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hee hee I think the issue is that some people assume that other people assume that we are all still "British".

Without prejudice to the concerns of Highfield residents, the west of the city needs more services. My view is that rather than people crossing the river we should be trying to balance services between the two sides*. Is there a better site available in the west for this type of development?

If the main concern is traffic impacts, is there some way to mitigate this in a way that make this development acceptable?

* We could probably usefully move some of the Secondary Schools over to the East for example.

antoobrien

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Its wrong to say that RGData are using the term hypermarket in a incorrect way.

I didn't say that they were using it incorrectly, I was commenting on:
a) the reaction that the work hypermarket draws "this will be massive" vs the reality - it's not all that big.
b) RGData have a vested interest in seeing this fail and will have used the term knowing the perceived negative connotations the word.

Besides, Tesco Extra is described as a hypermarket - several of which are multi storey

Jack_Plumber

The gross floor area 8,510 square metres (91,600 sq feet): that's big! If you don't think it big, then you must be well use to your space!

According to a recent BBC article, the average Irish home is 88 square metres (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8201900.stm). I will grant you that this figure is low and likely reflects the amount apartments sold in recent times. On this basis, the floor space of this hypermarket is equivalent to almost 97 homes.

antoobrien wrote: »

I didn't say that they were using it incorrectly, I was commenting on:
a) the reaction that the work hypermarket draws "this will be massive" vs the reality - it's not all that big.
b) RGData have a vested interest in seeing this fail and will have used the term knowing the perceived negative connotations the word.

Besides, Tesco Extra is described as a hypermarket - several of which are multi storey

antoobrien

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

The gross floor area 8,510 square metres (91,600 sq feet): that's big! If you don't think it big, then you must be well use to your space!

I'm going to refer you back to my original post to answer that:

antoobrien wrote: »

The hypermarket label was brought up by RGDATA to make this look overly large, when it isn't. It's a multi storey building that will probably take up less space than footprint of the existing factory - 65*130=8450 sq meters for what looks like a single storey building vs the proposed multi storey of approx 8,510 sq meters.

So the new building will be a 2/3 story building, so the floorspace will be spilt over the multiple levels. So it seems to me that the proposed building will have a smaller footprint that the existing factory.

But to put it in some kind of context for you, I work in an office building that's approx 40m x 40m. However since it's a 4 level building, the total usable available space is over 6,000 sq meters (taking lifts, stairs exits into consideration) instead of just 1,600 sq meters.

So no I don't think that's it's particularly big.

disgruntled resident

There are many issues with this development (being a resident of the area myself I cant but see them!)

for example.... the proposed build height is 153 feet...a monster compared to everything else we have in the area. coupled with this there are two proposed entrances onto the rahoon rd which is about as wide as your average country boithrin, they also plan to have a loading ramp at this side about 50 metres from the row of houses adjacent (in use 24/7). these artic juggernauts make a hell of a lot of noise ill tell you first hand. their plan to reduce the noise levels? a row of shrubs!

on the plus side itll generate (they claim) 250 jobs.

another suggested plus of the development is...in Micheal o hUiginn's words

“A development of this scale will revitalize the area and bring new life to the west side of the city, which has tended to stagnate in recent times. I think that having such a development will put pressure on other local companies to upgrade their businesses and it will be a great asset to the area,”

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

antoobrien

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

The same was said about Ikea opening up in Ballymun, but the effect has been the opposite - other smaller retailers have flourished with more "traffic" (excuse the phrase) around.

Ollie Hester

The widening of the Seamus Quirke road has cost St. Michaels football club its pitch & the council aren't interested in replacing it. The Westside area is being treated with contempt by the Council. Nothing surprises me now...

_Whimsical_

antoobrien wrote: »

The same was said about Ikea opening up in Ballymun, but the effect has been the opposite - other smaller retailers have flourished with more "traffic" (excuse the phrase) around.

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

galwayrush

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

Grand if the people who would be willing to build the park and little cafe would pay the owner of the private site a higher price than Tesco are offering.

galwaycyclist

disgruntled resident wrote: »

nonsense! what hope have small businesses faced with the biggest supermarket in Galway? These plans should be trashed. How about a park or a nice little cafe instead?

With regret, while the protection of small retailers against predatory large-multiple stores is a laudable aim, you are not going to win that battle within the context of a planning application in Galway city.

Thats a national issue and will require national interventions such as

1) The reinstatement of the groceries order and a ban on below cost selling
2) Strict national limits on store size, type and location
3) A levy on car parking spaces at out of town shopping centres (and possibly all shopping centres) - so as to level the playing pitch for town-centre businesses.

We lost those battles years ago (I know I was involved at the time). Our current minister for the environment proposes further liberalisation of the market.

Under the current regime we are going to have large multiples running "hyper market-type" operations. That issue in my opinion is outside our local capacity to influence. If we are to have such operations, the question becomes how do we locate and constrain them so as to minimise adverse impacts and maximise positive impacts?

_Whimsical_

Does anyone know if the council would accept an online petition opposed to the development for consideration when they're accepting submissions in the next week or two?

If we set one up we could all have a say and it would be easier for us all than sending individual objections. If there is a cost for submission of it I'd be willing to fund it..l think it's just 20 euro. Does anyone agree it would be a good idea or know if it would be accepted?

It would be easy enough to pimp on Facebook and we could potentially get quite a few people to sign.

EDIT: my reading of the planning objection/submission is that you cannot make an electronic submission,it has to be in writing. Anyone know if signatures got online and printed would circumvent this?

snubbleste

Would it be fair to say that this thread is 50/50 split opinion? It needs a poll.

As indicated earlier, I'm in favour of a big retail grocery development at the location. Look how successful the area on the Headford Rd is, surely that scenario can be replicated on the western side of town, particularly with the road being improved.

_Whimsical_

snubbleste wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that this thread is 50/50 split opinion? It needs a poll.

As indicated earlier, I'm in favour of a big retail grocery development at the location. Look how successful the area on the Headford Rd is, surely that scenario can be replicated on the western side of town, particularly with the road being improved.

My reading is not that it's 50/50 at all. I think the thread is much more heavily weighted in opposition to the proposal.

inisboffin

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Does anyone know if the council would accept an online petition opposed to the development for consideration when they're accepting submissions in the next week or two?

If we set one up we could all have a say and it would be easier for us all than sending individual objections. If there is a cost for submission of it I'd be willing to fund it..l think it's just 20 euro. Does anyone agree it would be a good idea or know if it would be accepted?

It would be easy enough to pimp on Facebook and we could potentially get quite a few people to sign.

EDIT: my reading of the planning objection/submission is that you cannot make an electronic submission,it has to be in writing. Anyone know if signatures got online and printed would circumvent this?

There are sites like ipetitions.com or http://www.thepetitionsite.com/
Not sure how acceptable they are though?

thesandeman

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

In the Headford Road SC the butcher is doing well afaik. A new off licence opened up in the last few years as did a fish shop which has since expanded. The newsagents has been going strong for years. A new cake shop opened up. In fact almost every store involved with food in the Tesco complex seems to be doing ok.
The only thing I would worry about is the traffic. I would take an uneducated guess that there is a 'little something' waiting to be used to placate the local residents for the disturbance if they turn out to be the only stumbling block.

antoobrien

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That isn't at all comparable. Ikea draws a customer base from right around the country.They're going to buy furniture so naturally smaller retailers in the area can offer them something else, food, coffees etc and will benefit from the extra customer base. Tesco will draw customers looking to buy groceries. They're not going to be stopping off in Divillys to buy meat, or the wine shop to buy wine or in Dunnes for food or the westside news agent to buy sweets, papers magazines when Tesco will offer all of this on the other side of the road.

I'm sure local furniture stores in Ballymun did not flourish with the arrival of Ikea to the area. The same will happen with Tesco arriving in westside.

Ikea don't just sell furniture though, so your comparison isn't nearly as accurate as you'd like. There are several small hardware and furniture stores, as well as fabrics shops, restaurants etc that have flourished in the area.

Besides to give an example in Galway - Dunnes & Lidl haven't put the three shops Doughiska & Roscam, or the one in Ballybrit/Parkmore out of business.

Mrs OBumble

galwayrush wrote: »

Grand if the people who would be willing to build the park and little cafe would pay the owner of the private site a higher price than Tesco are offering.

Seems to me that there are already quite a few parks in the area:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214062428912677824250.0004b6f5856e8780a2fb9&msa=0&ll=53.274401,-9.077357&spn=0.005319,0.009581

And no way would a cafe be successful there was not something like a supermarket to draw people to the area.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with delivery access via Rahoon Rd.

But if that can be sorted, though, I'd be in favour: that part of Shantalla is run-down and it looks unsightly / dodgy. The site is large - by eye, I'd say it's twice the size of Westside Dunnes - and currently wasted.

And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

Oh - and you cannot gauge support from posts here, people in favour are less likely to buck the trend and say so.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

And no way would a cafe be successful there was not something like a supermarket to draw people to the area.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with delivery access via Rahoon Rd.

And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

I'd say delivery for a furniture factory wasn't as frequent though, and I'd assume not 24/7?

what_traffic

JustMary wrote: »

The site is large - by eye, I'd say it's twice the size of Westside Dunnes - and currently wasted.
.
..
...
And it's not like they're taking over a residential area: it used to be a furniture factory, there's no way that it didn't see a lot of delivery trucks (and nasty chemicals) going back and forward.

Oh - and you cannot gauge support from posts here, people in favour are less likely to buck the trend and say so.

A few corrections.
It has not been a furniture factory for a decade or more now. The past number of years it has been a Warehouse for Higgin's timber products.

It is not larger area than Westside shopping center - see: http://gis.galwaycity.ie/proweb_mapviewer/ It is a smaller site - but the current warehouse building is larger than the Westside shopping center

Jack_Plumber

The proposal is at planning stage and the only way to have an influence is to put in a planning objection to it stating the file number 11/312. It will cost €20.
If you do decide on this course of action, then your submission should go in 2 or 3 days before the final date (Feb. 2nd). If there are too many objections, the applicant can withdraw the application: you're down €20 and have no recourse once the revised plan is submitted.
Kinda sucks really!

inisboffin wrote: »

There are sites like ipetitions.com or http://www.thepetitionsite.com/
Not sure how acceptable they are though?

jassha

Just read through this thread. Must research and get more info but if they get the parking and the access right i think its a great thing. Dunnes in Knocknacarra is a parking nightmare when busy. Would love to see Tesco in westside.

factual lies

The main issue I have is that the delivery bays will be facing houses beside the proposed site and with tescos delivery bays opening before 5am every morning, these people will have an awful hard time sleeping (it will be around the clock if the store goes to 24hr opening times).

Also, just of note, The site hasn't produced furniture since the early 90's (1992 IIRC)when a large size portion of shantalla residence (myself included) lost their jobs.

Little My

jassha wrote: »

J... Dunnes in Knocknacarra is a parking nightmare when busy....

Off topic, forgive me, but people fannying around till they get a space on the outer park, or just pulling up wherever they fancy are the nightmare in that car park.

I always go to the underground car park because it is always empty, plus much easier to get pram & baby out of car when you have space beside you and not having to deal with weather.

Another point made much earlier about the amount of parks in the area - there aren't any as far as I know. Playing fields, yes, but no parks.

The disused land around Dunnes Knocknacarra would make a great nature trail type park.

Sponge Bob

I always go underground too and leave the retards on the surface. You will get out quicker too.

fishy fishy

did the owner of this premises block some apartments being built across from his private house lately because it wouldnt' be good for the area??? Is this true? has anyone heard this.