* Honours Maths Paper 2 " Let's fight back :)

River Song · 12-06-2011 10:40pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Do all of the trig identities have to be proven using the unit circle and triangles or can they be proven using other identities? I am of course talking about all others barring Cos^2A + Sin^2A = 1 and the Cos(A+B), Sin(A+B) identities.

Nope, unless it says it specifically then you have free reign.

Shanee. · 12-06-2011 10:41pm

Anyone reckon the tangent to a circle proof will come up?

partyatmygaff · 12-06-2011 10:43pm

Michael_E wrote: »

Nope, unless it says it specifically then you have free reign.

Phew... I thought I had to go look over 17 proofs for the trig questions. That would've been nightmarish.

Seeing as you correctly predicted the integration of a circle, what are you intending to study for the rest of today and (perhaps) tomorrow morning?

LilMissCiara · 12-06-2011 10:44pm

For everyone doing further calculus (Q8) I've always know integration by parts to be LIATE, never heard anything else but I saw on the Leaving Cert predictions page that someone posted saying it's not InLATE and it's actually LIATE, which is true.

Just said I'd post here in case any of ye use InLATE.

Turtwig · 12-06-2011 10:49pm

LilMissCiara wrote: »

For everyone doing further calculus (Q8) I've always know integration by parts to be LIATE, never heard anything else but I saw on the Leaving Cert predictions page that someone posted saying it's not InLATE and it's actually LIATE, which is true.

Just said I'd post here in case any of ye use InLATE.

Both have exceptions to the rules but are generally ok and afaik should suffice for LC.

PJelly · 12-06-2011 10:50pm

We've never don'e anything about trig graphs in class. Ever.
Are there any things I have to know about them? Any tricky questions that can come up?

Daniel S · 12-06-2011 10:51pm

Shanee. wrote: »

Anyone reckon the tangent to a circle proof will come up?

Bump!

Turtwig · 12-06-2011 10:52pm

PJelly wrote: »

We've never don'e anything about trig graphs in class. Ever.
Are there any things I have to know about them? Any tricky questions that can come up?

Iirc 2006 or 2005 had a "stinger" question where the tan function came up. It's not a bad question, but if you haven't come across something like it before it might throw you.

Edit : 2006 Q5. That year's probabilty questions were probably the easiest in years.

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 10:56pm

LilMissCiara wrote: »

For everyone doing further calculus (Q8) I've always know integration by parts to be LIATE, never heard anything else but I saw on the Leaving Cert predictions page that someone posted saying it's not InLATE and it's actually LIATE, which is true.

Just said I'd post here in case any of ye use InLATE.

It doesn't matter which you use, because there is no chance in hell of getting a question which has both a logarithm and an inverse function on a LC paper.

If they actually did give one, when you pick your u and dv, you'd have to go and do integration by parts to work out your v, which would result in a VERY VERY VERY messy solution.

PJelly · 12-06-2011 10:58pm

Malty_T wrote: »

Iirc 2006 or 2005 had a "stinger" question where the tan function came up. It's not a bad question, but if you haven't come across something like it before it might throw you.

Edit : 2006 Q5. That year's probabilty questions were probably the easiest in years.

So just be able to do that question and I should be able to tackle anything they throw at me?

PJelly · 12-06-2011 10:58pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

It doesn't matter which you use, because there is no chance in hell of getting a question which has both a logarithm and an inverse function on a LC paper.

If they actually did give one, when you pick your u and dv, you'd have to go and do integration by parts to work out your v, which would result in a VERY VERY VERY messy solution.

I wanna see!

:D

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 11:00pm

PJelly wrote: »

I wanna see! :D

Hahaha, give me 15 minutes and I'll throw one up.

LilMissCiara · 12-06-2011 11:05pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Hahaha, give me 15 minutes and I'll throw one up.

That's the coolest and the nerdiest thing I'm gonna see all day..! :P

dollybirdmary · 12-06-2011 11:08pm

PJelly wrote: »

We've never don'e anything about trig graphs in class. Ever.
Are there any things I have to know about them? Any tricky questions that can come up?

You can only be given a graph and asked to find the period and the range .They could also ask you to sketch inverse sine x .

PJelly · 12-06-2011 11:09pm

dollybirdmary wrote: »

You can only be given a graph and asked to find the period and the range .They could also ask you to sketch inverse sine x .

Period and range?
Eh? Confused.com.
How do you find them?

partyatmygaff · 12-06-2011 11:11pm

PJelly wrote: »

Period and range?
Eh? Confused.com.
How do you find them?

Period is the rate of x at which the values of f(x) repeat themselves and range is range of values that f(x) has.

For example in the graph of sin(x) the period is 2Pi and the range is -1 -> 1.

PJelly · 12-06-2011 11:16pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Period is the rate of x at which the values of f(x) repeat themselves and range is range of values that f(x) has.

For example in the graph of sin(x) the period is 2Pi and the range is -1 -> 1.

Oh so if the graph is at point -rtThree at -1, and at rtThree at 1. Then its range is -1 to 1?
Or would that be two?

and if -rtThree was the smallest value it hits, and rtThree was the highest, then the range is -rtThree to rtThree?
Idiotic questions from a HL maths student, I know. But I've never done any questions on these :P

LilMissCiara · 12-06-2011 11:16pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Period is the rate of x at which the values of f(x) repeat themselves and range is range of values that f(x) has.

For example in the graph of sin(x) the period is 2Pi and the range is -1 -> 1.

This will seem stupid, but it's me so of course it's not..! :P

So let's take this to be the graph:

X F(X)
1 2
2 4
3 6
4 2
5 4
6 6

Then the period would be 3 and range would be 4?

jamesr1775 · 12-06-2011 11:31pm

Good luck to every one tomorrow and may the force be with you:)

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 11:32pm

And this is why you'd never ever EVER get an integration by parts question involving both a log and an inverse trig function.

The result actually amazed me...

Turtwig · 12-06-2011 11:34pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

And this is why you'd never ever EVER get an integration by parts question involving both a log and an inverse trig function.

The result actually amazed me...

Before I go looking through that for errors, did you make up the integral yourself?:pac:

River Song · 12-06-2011 11:35pm

Guys, it's bed time for us! Good night and best of luck to us all. If nothing else, we'll survive it! Best of luck guys. Either I'll be back here relieved tomorrow that P2 was fair, or I'll be organizing a march to Athlone

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 11:36pm

Malty_T wrote: »

Before I go looking through that for errors, did you make up the integral yourself?:pac:

Yeah. There aren't any questions like this in LC books or even any of my calculus college books.

PJelly · 12-06-2011 11:36pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

And this is why you'd never ever EVER get an integration by parts question involving both a log and an inverse trig function.

The result actually amazed me...

Maybe you did it wrong?

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE. This is how they initially found out what 0 equals.

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 11:39pm

PJelly wrote: »

Maybe you did it wrong?

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE. This is how they initially found out what 0 equals.

I doubt it since the result at the end was true.

Hahaha, yeah, a group of mathematicians in the 1700s
*does the integral*
*results in 0=0*
Mathematician: "May god have mercy on us all...."

PJelly · 12-06-2011 11:43pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

I doubt it since the result at the end was true.

Hahaha, yeah, a group of mathematicians in the 1700s
*does the integral*
*results in 0=0*
Mathematician: "May god have mercy on us all...."

I do believe this says that zero equals ze- *BANG*
BLACK HOLE
GATES OF HELL OPEN

Maybe_Memories · 12-06-2011 11:47pm

Actually, just realised I did make a mistake.. forgot the constant at the end, so it should've been c = 0, which actually doesn't matter..
So the whole thing is still a loop...

PJelly · 13-06-2011 12:01am

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Actually, just realised I did make a mistake.. forgot the constant at the end, so it should've been c = 0, which actually doesn't matter..
So the whole thing is still a loop...

Well the C is worth 3 marks. And that question is 5 marks. So you did fail the question.
Well, didn't fail. But didn't get your honor.

Maybe_Memories · 13-06-2011 12:05am

PJelly wrote: »

Well the C is worth 3 marks. And that question is 5 marks. So you did fail the question.
Well, didn't fail. But didn't get your honor.

Aren't part a's 10 marks?
They were last year at least.

Back on topic, you'll never get a log and an inverse trig in the same integral, so in doesn't matter whether you use InLATE or LIATE

PJelly · 13-06-2011 12:07am

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Aren't part a's 10 marks?
They were last year at least.

Back on topic, you'll never get a log and an inverse trig in the same integral, so in doesn't matter whether you use InLATE or LIATE

That was an A o_o
I was more thinking C (iii)
I'm curious now as to what kind of stuff you get when integrating inverse cos and lnx or similar.

* Honours Maths Paper 2 " Let's fight back :)

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