* Honours Maths Paper 2 " Let's fight back :)

jamesr1775

Ok people im starting with 2008 and working my way down. If you come across difficult questions, little tricks to know or some predictions (e.g like the area of a ******* disc) post them up. (my opt is q10 btw. id love to know if proofs are coming up ;p)

polka dot

Question 10 as in groups?

Theorem 6 we've been told to look out for.

River Song

Darn you both...I would have LOVED to have done Group Theory

I'm doing....Q8....SHOCKING :P

I'm terrified of Q3 If concurrent lines come up I'm screwed....><

jamesr1775

great a longish one

randylonghorn

Michael_E wrote: »

Darn you both...I would have LOVED to have done Group Theory

The way people are going on in the P. 1 aftermath thread, group therapy would probably be more useful!! >_>

jamesr1775

yea watch out for concurrent lines , asked in 2008 i think. not asked in most of the others

River Song

jamesr1775 wrote: »

yea watch out for concurrent lines , asked in 2008 i think. not asked in most of the others

Yeah if they keep up the theme of asking stuff not seen in a while - a la today - then that'd be one to watch out for.

jamesr1775

http://www.mathsireland.com/Pred_2011.htm
its a good site. they give predictions but i wouldnt really use them after a paper 1 like tht. it offers questions though on The line, Trig and the circle and includes the answers. It may be helpfull

epicwinning

I can't think of many "understanding" questions they could throw our way in Paper II (like 7(c) earlier). Not looking forward to the probability questions though, they're bound to ask some new Project Maths style question there... Lotto maybe?

The trig questions will probably be "without using a calculator, find [whatever]"

The line - I reckon they'll ask something about do perpendicular lines remain perpendicular under a transformation or prove the area of a triangle is |x1y2 - x2y1|

If you're going to study over the weekend, try the questions like these if you can find them. They're good practise and if paper I is anything to go by, this is the sort of thing the examiners are looking for from us.

cocopopsxx

^^ epicwinning, where can I find these type of questions? I really need to do well in P.2!

PJelly

I'm off to do every single paper two in the papers, and then some.
If I don't get an A1 here, it's bye bye college.
Wish me luck.

jamesr1775

yea same here. If you come across some difficult questions let us know. will do the same

cocopopsxx

Same, that's what I'm doing too.
I'm sure he'll make the probability questions real hard...and I just can't do trig!
FML, I was depending on paper 1 as it is my strong point, now everything is ruined.

christine1016

cocopopsxx wrote: »

Same, that's what I'm doing too.
I'm sure he'll make the probability questions real hard...and I just can't do trig!
FML, I was depending on paper 1 as it is my strong point, now everything is ruined.

exactly the same with me...!

GV_NRG

cocopopsxx wrote: »

Same, that's what I'm doing too.
I'm sure he'll make the probability questions real hard...and I just can't do trig!
FML, I was depending on paper 1 as it is my strong point, now everything is ruined.

its my gud paper aswell like!! ok im doing every single paper 2 in the exam papers and IF ANYONE HAS A QUESTION, POST IT AND WE CAN ALL HELP EACH OTHER OUT!!

partyatmygaff

What's changed in the syllabus for Project Maths Paper II? Judging by Paper I's recycling of questions from the Project Maths paper we can be somewhat certain of Paper presenting similar questions.

jamesr1775

2008 Q7 (c) is a fairly good standard deviation question

hunii07

Can someone list the proofs that may come up on paper 2 ..... I keep thinking I'm missing some because my book has no index...can someone list all the proofs that could appear on paper 2...thanks ... I really need to do well on this one after the horrible paper1

canister94

hunii07 wrote: »

Can someone list the proofs that may come up on paper 2 ..... I keep thinking I'm missing some because my book has no index...can someone list all the proofs that could appear on paper 2...thanks ... I really need to do well on this one after the horrible paper1

eq of tangent of circle x1x+y1y=r squared
angle between two lines tan theta=m1-m2 over 1=m1m2
perpendicular distance
cosine rule
cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n
all your trig proofs then but they are main ones

hunii07

canister94 wrote: »

eq of tangent of circle x1x+y1y=r squared
angle between two lines tan theta=m1-m2 over 1=m1m2
perpendicular distance
cosine rule
cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n
all your trig proofs then but they are main ones

Thank you I went through the exam papers but as I thought I missed one.. the difference equations one .... thanks again

J_E

Good morning, everyone. On a related note, I received an email from the SEC following a complaint I made to them.

Jamie

Thank you for your email. I am sorry that you were unhappy with the examination paper and I hope that the information below will be of some assistance to you.

I am aware of the press and media coverage which has just occurred in relation to this paper, particularly in relation to Question 7 and 8. We have issued a press statement to the media confirming that there was no error in Question 7 and that Question 8 was within the prescribed syllabus for the subject.

Comments and observations regarding test instruments are an intrinsic part of the feedback that we would expect to receive in any year. The well-tried methodology in place to deal with issues that arise in the course of the examination process is the development of the marking scheme by the Chief Examiner and his college of examiners in light of the circumstances of that year’s examinations. All observations received in relation to a subject are reviewed by the Chief Examiner in the context of preparing the marking scheme for that subject.

I will ensure that your comments below are sent to the Chief Examiner.

I hope that the remainder of the examinations will go well for you. Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.

Kind regards,

So it would appear that they're not seeing anything wrong with the paper. I hope you guys get an easier Paper 2.

partyatmygaff

I received the exact same email, word for word.

J_E

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I received the exact same email, word for word.

Heh, I do admit I'm not surprised that they'd be sending mass emails at this point.

canister94

if they give me a place in dcu il be happy all i say is <snip> screwin with my life we will have to ace paper 2.anyone got a link to the proof for the concurent lines

PJelly

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I received the exact same email, word for word.

Ditto

Patriciamc93

Here awesome questions on concurrent lines ...... Just click on the question for a worked out answer. They may
http://www.mathsireland.com/LCHGeneralNotes/Line/7_Conc_Lines/Q_7_Conc_Lines.html

epicwinning

cocopopsxx wrote: »

^^ epicwinning, where can I find these type of questions? I really need to do well in P.2!

I've come across them in Pre Papers and some past papers I think...

As for probability, I've come across a few questions in class that they might ask to trick you (I'm in the top class in my school and even still only 2 or 3 of us got it right):

1) If the odds of having a boy and having a girl are equally likely, and a certain family have 2 children, one of which is a boy, find the odds that the second child is a boy.

2) A dice is rolled THREE times...

The first question is 1/3 - many people assume it's a half but the reason its actually 1/3 makes sense: Normally there are four possibilities - {B,B}, {B,G}, {G,B}, {G,G}

If one is already revealed to be a boy, that rules out the last bracket leaving 3 options and only 1 has two Boys.


The second question threw people off who do sample spaces. The best way I found to do this one is to roll one dice and multiply that probability by a sample space. I think a question like this is in Discovering Maths. If they ask for probability of "all 3 adding up to (number, or range of numbers)", you may have to draw the sample space 6 times, adding one to all values in the first, 2 to all values in the second, etc. Add up the number of combinations that fit the question and divide by 216 (there are 6^3 possibilities).

Lastly, if they ask you for a coin toss or something similar and ask "what are the odds of P(n) happening exactly x amount of times", the formula is [(Total No. times) C (No. times P(n) occurs)]*(Prob of P(n) occuring)^(no. times P(n) occurs)*(Prob of P(n) not occuring)^(No. times P(n) doesn't occur)

It looks neater when all those brackets are replaced with symbols...

That's all I can think of at the moment...

cocopopsxx

Would it be a good idea to try some probability questions from the Project Maths sample paper? I'm hell scared after Paper 1. :P

cocopopsxx

epicwinning wrote: »

I've come across them in Pre Papers and some past papers I think...

As for probability, I've come across two questions in class that they might ask to trick you (I'm in the top class in my school and even still only 2/3 of us got it right):

1) If the odds of having a boy and having a girl are equally likely, and a certain family have 2 children, one of which is a boy, find the odds that the second child is a boy.

2) A dice is rolled THREE times...

The first question is 1/3 - many people assume it's a half but the reason its actually 1/3 makes sense: Normally there are four possibilities - {B,B}, {B,G}, {G,B}, {G,G}

If one is already revealed to be a boy, that rules out the last bracket leaving 3 options and only 1 has two Boys.


The second question threw people off who do sample spaces. The best way I found to do this one is to roll one dice and multiply that probability by a sample space. I think a question like this is in Discovering Maths. If they ask for probability of "all 3 adding up to (number, or range of numbers)", you may have to draw the sample space 6 times, adding one to all values in the first, 2 to all values in the second, etc. Add up the number of combinations that fit the question and divide by 216 (there are 6^3 possibilities).

Lastly, if they ask you for a coin toss or something similar and ask "what are the odds of P(n) happening exactly x amount of times", the formula is [(Total No. times) C (No. times P(n) occurs)]*(Prob of P(n) occuring)^(no. times P(n) occurs)*(Prob of P(n) not occuring)^(No. times P(n) doesn't occur)

It looks neater when all those brackets are replaced with symbols...

That's all I can think of at the moment...

Thanks a million! I appreciate the help, thanks! xx

ladytwink

Just joined boards having been similarly SCREWED over by maths paper 1 (my strongest out of the 2 papers by far!!!:( Just wondering if anyone could explain the
"cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n"
thoerums or has a link showing them?.. especially the second one please!..
Best of luck to every1 on Mon...judging by paper 1 we're gonna need it!

luciemc

anyone doing question 9?

Daniel S

canister94 wrote: »

eq of tangent of circle x1x+y1y=r squared
angle between two lines tan theta=m1-m2 over 1=m1m2
perpendicular distance
cosine rule
cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n
all your trig proofs then but they are main ones

If we know all them, are we sorted, and are there any others that could possibly come up? Spending all day today learning every proof!

After yesterday.... I need to do good.

GV_NRG

ladytwink wrote: »

Just joined boards having been similarly SCREWED over by maths paper 1 (my strongest out of the 2 papers by far!!!:( Just wondering if anyone could explain the
"cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n"
thoerums or has a link showing them?.. especially the second one please!..
Best of luck to every1 on Mon...judging by paper 1 we're gonna need it!

you along with about 500 other people joined boards.ie after yesterday :P

hunii07

mtb_kng wrote: »

If we know all them, are we sorted, and are there any others that could possibly come up? Spending all day today learning every proof!

After yesterday.... I need to do good.

I'm doing the exact same... might do Irish too if I get time

PJelly

Quick silly tangent slope question...
You know how the quick way to get the slop of a tangent is -B/A?
Well, I thought that the X is always taken as A. So.. 3x-2y+y=o would have a slope of 2/3
But I've got y-2x=0. So I re-arranged it to make 2x-y=0 (multiply across by a minus) so I had a slope of 1/2. But the slope is 2. So they took A as Y and B as X.

Are you not able to multiply across by a minus in a tangent? Does that mess up its location completely?

canister94

i hae those proofs as document cant upload them

cocopopsxx

ladytwink wrote: »

Just joined boards having been similarly SCREWED over by maths paper 1 (my strongest out of the 2 papers by far!!!:( Just wondering if anyone could explain the
"cos a+b = cosacosb - sinasinb
difference equations un=la power of n +mb power n"
thoerums or has a link showing them?.. especially the second one please!..
Best of luck to every1 on Mon...judging by paper 1 we're gonna need it!

Here are some - Proofs
Not all the proofs are there, but it might help.

PJelly

canister94 wrote: »

i hae those proofs as document cant upload them

Take screenshots and upload those.

Daniel S

cocopopsxx wrote: »

Here are some - Proofs
Not all the proofs are there, but it might help.

A girl definatly wrote out those proofs anyway! Girliest handwriting I've seen in ages!

canister94

erwf.jpg here it is

epicwinning

luciemc wrote: »

anyone doing question 9?

My class didn't do it but I'll probs try it anyway. Got 26/50 in the Pre in it which is more than what most people were getting for the circle question (and did a victory lap by getting 50/50 in Q8)

cocopopsxx wrote:

Thanks a million! I appreciate the help, thanks! xx

No probs .

GV_NRG

PJelly wrote: »

Quick silly tangent slope question...
You know how the quick way to get the slop of a tangent is -B/A?
Well, I thought that the X is always taken as A. So.. 3x-2y+y=o would have a slope of 2/3
But I've got y-2x=0. So I re-arranged it to make 2x-y=0 (multiply across by a minus) so I had a slope of 1/2. But the slope is 2. So they took A as Y and B as X.

Are you not able to multiply across by a minus in a tangent? Does that mess up its location completely?

do it as Y=Mx + c

you have 2x-y=0

-y=-2x

y=2x
but y=Mx

therfore M=2 i hope ive awnsered your question :P

PJelly

GV_NRG wrote: »

do it as Y=Mx + c

you have 2x-y=0

-y=-2x

y=2x
but y=Mx

therfore M=2 i hope ive awnsered your question :P

So that's the preferred approach when you have a Y by itself?
Thanks loads!:D

canister94

PJelly wrote: »

So that's the preferred approach when you have a Y by itself?
Thanks loads!:D

minus the coefficient of x over coefficent of y is the easiest

epicwinning

canister94 wrote: »

minus the coefficient of x over coefficent of y is the easiest

Ah yes, it's easy to mix this up with the Sum of the Roots formula...

PJelly

canister94 wrote: »

minus the coefficient of x over coefficent of y is the easiest

.... That's a much more sensible way to approach it, than "-B/A"
Thank you too

God these maths are so relaxing. After yesterday I'd almost forgotten what it feels like to get questions right. Paper 1 almost killed my spirit. Almost.

GV_NRG

PJelly wrote: »

So that's the preferred approach when you have a Y by itself?
Thanks loads!:D

i never knew there was another way to do it? that is the way ive always done it :O

PJelly

epicwinning wrote: »

Ah yes, it's easy to mix this up with the Sum of the Roots formula...

*facepalm*
That's what I was doing.

Patriciamc93

The circle tangent proof:
B part i
http://www.studentxpress.ie/papers/circlesoln2008.pdf

The perpindicular distance:
C
http://www.studentxpress.ie/papers/linesoln2008.pdf

Measure of angle between two lines
C part I
http://www.studentxpress.ie/papers/linesoln06.pdf

Difference equation:
B
http://www.studentxpress.ie/papers/probsoln2010.pdf

I will put of the trig ones in a min.

canister94

i have all proofs on computer i said earlier .if ya want any of them pm an i will upload. i need to get off because i need to study

spazzy

epicwinning wrote: »

My class didn't do it but I'll probs try it anyway. Got 26/50 in the Pre in it which is more than what most people were getting for the circle question (and did a victory lap by getting 50/50 in Q8)


eh you can't do both 9 and 8!