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When atheists go too far

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    #272
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    Part of the bible suggest this. Other parts suggest faith is the only way to be saved. God doesn't seem too sure on his standards.

    God is 100% sure. The ones who are not are those who do not interpret His word properly.


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    #273
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    God is 100% sure. The ones who are not are those who do not interpret His word properly.

    How can you be sure of this?


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    #274
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Osgoodisgood wrote: »
    Good grief. It's getting more and more difficult to squeeze your book into the gaps that science has left behind isn't it?
    "Research science" about Adam and Eve? Give me a break.

    I'm talking about the opinion of Christian research scientists (some of whom I have spoken with) about the situation. Not that this is actually documented in papers.

    In short, the Bible doesn't give any reason to rule out the existence of others alongside Adam and Eve, nor does the Bible give any reason to deny the theory of evolution as I can see it.


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    #275
    Chairman Meow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    Well then Mr. Dawkins, i consider your beliefs ridiculous and stupid.
    See it works both ways!


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    #276
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    that anyone witha different view of the world to mine is stupid or wrong.

    I think you are entitled to an opinion, however, if you are saying the world is flat and it's not, and furthermore if you threaten Blasphemy if I try and point out to you that the world is in fact round ~ ?

    I think stupid and wrong is only the start of it.

    PSSST, I'll let you in on my little secret, I keep this to myself, but I don't believe than any sane man can believe in a divinity.


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    #277
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Dawkins is an excellent biologist and for many years I had no problem with him. Some of his milder interviews were he calls for evolution to be taught in school had me on his side but as the years went on and I read more of his books and seen his interviews he started to annoy me. Most of his books about biology are littered with digs at religion and those who practice it. Theres no need for that in a biology book.


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    #278
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Chairman Meow wrote: »
    Well then Mr. Dawkins, i consider your beliefs ridiculous and stupid.
    See it works both ways!
    I do not understand how atheism can be stupid - it's merely not believing in something which does not seem plausible to many. If you disagree with atheism simply because you believe in god, fair enough obviously, but I just cannot see what could be stupid about atheism.


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    #279
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    gbee wrote: »
    I think you are entitled to an opinion, however, if you are saying the world is flat and it's not, and furthermore if you threaten Blasphemy if I try and point out to you that the world is in fact round ~ ?

    I think stupid and wrong is only the start of it.

    PSSST, I'll let you in on my little secret, I keep this to myself, but I don't believe than any sane man can believe in a divinity.

    Im not saying anything of the sort I am an agnostic myself but were we differ is the need to call people with different beliefs insane.


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    #280
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Im not saying anything of the sort I am an agnostic myself but were we differ is the need to call people with different beliefs insane.
    Why? If you believe the world is flat then I will call you an idiot.


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    #281
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    but were we differ is the need to call people with different beliefs insane.

    I've no problem with different beliefs, if you start from the premise of a religion, then squabbling over it is wrong.

    I just think they are ALL Nutts, equally.

    My bottom line: You will never know what God says to me after I die!


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    #282
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Why? If you believe the world is flat then I will call you an idiot.

    There is a huge gaping gap between the question of whether or not the world is flat (verifiable) and God's existence (unverifiable). I think you know this full well but it is important to note.


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    #283
    AhSureTisGrand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    Dudess wrote: »
    It's christian to live and let live
    No it's not. It's Christian to tell the whole damn world how great it it is to be Christian and that they're going to hell if they don't believe


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    #284
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    philologos wrote: »
    There is a huge gaping gap between the question of whether or not the world is flat (verifiable) and God's existence (unverifiable). I think you know this full well but it is important to note.
    Okay, if you believe in fairies then I will call you an idiot.

    There, god and fairies, both unverifiable and one is as ridiculous as the other.


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    #285
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AhSureTisGrand wrote: »
    No it's not. It's Christian to tell the whole damn world how great it it is to be Christian and that they're going to hell if they don't believe

    You mean it is Christian to care about those around you and their salvation by telling them about the Lord Jesus so that they might be saved?

    How is that anything but considerate?


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    #286
    Osgoodisgood
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Osgoodisgood


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Dawkins is an excellent biologist and for many years I had no problem with him. Some of his milder interviews were he calls for evolution to be taught in school had me on his side but as the years went on and I read more of his books and seen his interviews he started to annoy me. Most of his books about biology are littered with digs at religion and those who practice it. Theres no need for that in a biology book.

    Religionists really are a sensitive crew aren't they? If you don't like his books (and I for one don't) then just don't buy or read them. If people are so upset that someone dares to doubt the authenticity of their favourite god (and I get that you probably aren't upset about this bit) then why would they read anything written by a guy who wrote "The God Delusion"? Dawkins has the right to include any content he wants into any book he writes. You have the right not to read it.You don't get to decide what there's a "need" for.


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    #287
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    philologos wrote: »
    There is a huge gaping gap between the question of whether or not the world is flat (verifiable) and God's existence (unverifiable). I think you know this full well but it is important to note.

    When something is unverifiable it has no real impact on our world so it is as a good as nonexistant.


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    #288
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Okay, if you believe in fairies then I will call you an idiot.

    There, god and fairies, both unverifiable and one is as ridiculous as the other.

    Im a scientist myself and in response to claims made by people be they god or whatever the correct scientific standpoint is "we dont know" it is most certainly not to call people an idiot. You ask someone to explain their conviction at least.


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    #289
    AhSureTisGrand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    philologos wrote: »
    You mean it is Christian to care about those around you and their salvation by telling them about the Lord Jesus so that they might be saved?

    How is that anything but considerate?

    To you and everyone who calls to my door to talk to me about Jesus, it's considerate. To others, it's a pain in the arse


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    #290
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Wouldn't necessarily agree. I know many people (who are not Mass-goers or believers) but who are very good people in their lives. I believe that there is a God that can say 'hey, you may not have acknowledged Me, but ya know what? I think you'll fit in well up here'.

    Well that's good to know! I can ditch Pacal now!:D

    But then, are you really a Christian believer. Because, nice and all as it is, none of what you just wrote is based on the Bible.
    That is what life is about. Do good when you can; help others; and be discreet about it. But Einhard, one thing I do note is that if you compare both of us, you are full of vitriol, suspicion, (might I even say hatred) for we Catholics/Christians/believers of all faiths.

    Me full of vitriol? I don't think so. Perhaps you could point out a few examples? I have nothing at all against religion or the religious- indeed, I happen to think that, regardless of whether it is based on reality or not, faith has many positive aspects to it. I'd never set out to denigrate someone's faith, or to shatter someone's belief unncecessarily.

    You cast God down without a second thought.

    Not true at all. I believed in God until my late teens, and continued to pray etc for a few years after that, even though I knew I was deluding myself. I Don't think you can possibly know whether I have doubts or not.
    You question existence (nothing wrong with that) but you do not seem content. It shows in your posts.

    Wow, you deduced all that about me fro my posts? Who needs tea lives?!:pac:

    Meh, I'm quite content.
    Matthew23 wrote: »
    well i mean people like dawkins who are just starting to come out now they are new. but god is forever

    Mat23

    People like Dawkins were always there. The reason you're seeing more of him, and us, is because previously, we'd be liable for a burning, or at least ostracism if we were open.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Dawkins is an excellent biologist and for many years I had no problem with him. Some of his milder interviews were he calls for evolution to be taught in school had me on his side but as the years went on and I read more of his books and seen his interviews he started to annoy me. Most of his books about biology are littered with digs at religion and those who practice it. Theres no need for that in a biology book.

    I think one has to look at it from dawkin's perspective too. He's written about biology and evolution for years, about things that are almost universally accepted within the scientific community. Then, he goes to America, and he's dismissed by people whose refutation of evolution amounts to pointing out that a banana fits in a man's hand. Not only that, but he sees such people ascend to ever greater positions of power in America, and elsewhere, and sees a steady creep of religious extremism into public, civil, and educational discourse, and threaten to strangle all empiricism in the classrooms. I sometimes disagree with the way he goes about things; I sometimes agree, and I always get a laugh at the exasperation that he can't quite hide- but I do understand why he is more anti-religion than me.


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    #291
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Osgoodisgood wrote: »
    Religionists really are a sensitive crew aren't they? If you don't like his books (and I for one don't) then just don't buy or read them. If people are so upset that someone dares to doubt the authenticity of their favourite god (and I get that you probably aren't upset about this bit) then why would they read anything written by a guy who wrote "The God Delusion"? Dawkins has the right to include any content he wants into any book he writes. You have the right not to read it.You don't get to decide what there's a "need" for.

    For the last time im an atheist/agnostic/biologist!


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    #292
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Im a scientist myself and in response to claims made by people be they god or whatever the correct scientific standpoint is "we dont know" it is most certainly not to call people an idiot. You ask someone to explain their conviction at least.
    Well I'm not a scientist, so yeah, you're an idiot if you believe in fairies.


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    #293
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Well I'm not a scientist, so yeah, you're an idiot if you believe in fairies.

    Well at least you agree that yours is not a scientific aproach.


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    #294
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well at least you agree that yours is not a scientific aproach.
    With regards to fairies, no.


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    #295
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Im not saying anything of the sort I am an agnostic myself but were we differ is the need to call people with different beliefs insane.

    It depends. What about people that believe in creation, noahs arc, scientologists, mormons? There's plenty of idiotic beliefs out there. If you truely believe them, someone calling you an idiot shouldn't make a difference.
    Like if a creationist calling me an idiot for believing in evolution wouldn't bother me at all.


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    #296
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AhSureTisGrand wrote: »
    To you and everyone who calls to my door to talk to me about Jesus, it's considerate. To others, it's a pain in the arse

    I've never gone door to door, but it is something that has come up in conversation with friends a lot (mostly on their impetus rather than mine). At least I can be sure that they know what I think and that they know that I desire for all people to know God and perhaps at some point in their lives some might see why it is important.

    Some people I know have made that step and have decided to follow Jesus. Others need time to mull it over. Others just reject it.
    Chuck Stone wrote:
    When something is unverifiable it has no real impact on our world so it is as a good as nonexistant.

    I believe that people can find God and know Him and that He indeed does work in peoples lives right here right now in the 21st century world just as He did at Creation.

    My unverifiable, I mean that one cannot prove or disprove His existence, much as one can't prove a whole rake of things given that proof lies solely in the realm of mathematics.

    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Like if a creationist calling me an idiot for believing in evolution wouldn't bother me at all.

    How many Young Earth Creationists do you know? I know a few and I think that their thinking on Creation is misguided, but I know for a fact that in the vast majority of cases that they aren't idiots and that in the vast majority of cases they are civil about it.


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    #297
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    philologos wrote: »
    I believe that people can find God and know Him and that He indeed does work in peoples lives right here right now in the 21st century world just as He did at Creation.

    I don't care that you believe in supernatural beings. Why are you telling me?
    I mean that one cannot prove or disprove His existence, much as one can't prove a whole rake of things given that proof lies solely in the realm of mathematics.
    When something is unverifiable it has no real impact on our world so it is as a good as nonexistant.

    If entities such as those that you believe in are verified then they will conform to scientific parameters and will then ,therefore, not be 'gods' anymore.


    .


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    #298
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Im a scientist myself and in response to claims made by people be they god or whatever the correct scientific standpoint is "we dont know" it is most certainly not to call people an idiot. You ask someone to explain their conviction at least.

    Many of the claims of religion are completely at odds with what we do know; the correct scientific standpoint on them is that they are false.


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    #299
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    philologos wrote: »
    My unverifiable, I mean that one cannot prove or disprove His existence, much as one can't prove a whole rake of things given that proof lies solely in the realm of mathematics.

    Nonsense.

    There are various standards of proof. Using any legal standard and applying it to the 'god' question, the answer is clear.

    There is no god. And it can and has been 'proved'.


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    #300
    Osgoodisgood
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Osgoodisgood


    philologos wrote: »
    You mean it is Christian to care about those around you and their salvation by telling them about the Lord Jesus so that they might be saved?

    How is that anything but considerate?


    So when atheists air their views they've gone too far but when a christian does it it's considerate?

    Can you see where this gets tough for me to follow?


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    #301
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    When something is unverifiable it has no real impact on our world so it is as a good as nonexistant.

    If such an entities that you believe in are verified then they cease to conform to scientific parameters and are therefore not 'gods' anymore.

    Absolute tosh. You claim that God has no real impact, therefore He doesn't?

    He clearly does have an impact in peoples lives whether you believe that God is just a mere concept or a living Saviour.

    That's as real an impact as you're going to get. Although, I do believe the biggest impact that God has had is that we are actually here in the first place. Also, if the laws of the universe are themselves a product of God's creation, why do you expect Him to be scrutinized by what He has made? That sounds perfectly illogical to me.


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