The smiths

denlaw · 31-05-2011 7:58pm #1

Anybody a fan , I am .
Perhaps Ireland greatest ever band , we claim the english born footballers , why not the smiths , all irish decent , morrissey maher joyce and rourke ....
Irelands greatest band ...:D;)

Danco · 31-05-2011 9:39pm

Can't be I'm afraid. Therapy? are Ireland's greatest ever band.

Sl!mCharles · 31-05-2011 9:53pm

Love them but they are English fellers

npresto · 31-05-2011 10:06pm

The Smiths were fantastic.
Up there with the very best bands ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1MsuoNJQ3U

denlaw · 01-06-2011 9:00am

Sl!mCharles wrote: »

Love them but they are English fellers

Irish , brought up with Irish values by Irish parents ..
Great band though

Nolanger · 01-06-2011 5:23pm

Saw them play live as a kid.

johnnykilo · 01-06-2011 6:58pm

One of the best bands ever. I think they did claim they were Irish when they first came out (much like Oasis) and then retracted it later when they became successful. IIRC Johnny Marr lived in Kildare until he was 11.

seachto7 · 01-06-2011 9:49pm

They are English (of Irish extraction), but are not an Irish band. Get over it. Therapy are Northern Irish too to be exact.

Nuno Bettencourt, who was the guitarist with Extreme, wasn't considered a Portuguese guitarist. Nope. He is American, from Boston.

Enough of the Paddywhackery. It's almost as bad as the Obama/Moneygall boll*x.....:mad:

denlaw · 02-06-2011 8:47am

johnnykilo wrote: »

One of the best bands ever. I think they did claim they were Irish when they first came out (much like Oasis) and then retracted it later when they became successful. IIRC Johnny Marr lived in Kildare until he was 11.

Not true , his family are from a townsland around Athy but he never lived in Ireland ..

denlaw · 02-06-2011 8:49am

seachto7 wrote: »

They are English (of Irish extraction), but are not an Irish band. Get over it. Therapy are Northern Irish too to be exact.

Nuno Bettencourt, who was the guitarist with Extreme, wasn't considered a Portuguese guitarist. Nope. He is American, from Boston.

Enough of the Paddywhackery. It's almost as bad as the Obama/Moneygall boll*x.....:mad:

You support the Irish football team ..?

seachto7 · 02-06-2011 9:02am

If it were the case the UK press would have always referred to them as Irish, same as N Gallagher, who just loved that union jack guitar..........

Is Wayne Rooney not Irish then by the same rational? Anyways, besides the point. Morrissey is a pain in the hole but has some fantastic songs.....Jonny Marr is a great guitarist

JerryHandbag · 02-06-2011 9:28am

Sure if they were Irish they wouldnt have called themselves The Smiths, it would've been The Murphys/Kellys/Ryans

smokedeels · 02-06-2011 12:07pm

Lyrically, their music is too centred on commentaries around English culture to be considered anything but English.

Musically, they seemed to ignore anything but white music, dry as a bone, another English trait.

Sorry "we" can't claim them.

ned rierson · 02-06-2011 2:34pm

dunno if johnny marr lived in kildare but he def has relations living there. plus my best friends father is morrisseys cousin and we got to see them a few times in dublin in the sfx and stadium way back when.

Dudess · 02-06-2011 2:39pm

An English band. Its members were of Irish extraction, but were first and foremost English.

problemchimp · 02-06-2011 2:51pm

The Smiths were a fantastic band but let's not embarass ourselves by claiming they were Irish. Anyway, who gives a flying fuuck where they are from?

vicwatson · 02-06-2011 3:08pm

all irish decent , morrissey maher joyce and rourke ....

It's Johnny Marr:)

Super band !

JerryHandbag · 02-06-2011 4:09pm

vicwatson wrote: »

It's Johnny Marr:)

Super band !

He was born Johnny Maher, but changed it to Marr.

smokedeels · 02-06-2011 4:13pm

JerryHandbag wrote: »

He was born Johnny Maher, but changed it to Marr.

Trying to hide his heritage, like some kind of self-hating Paddy.

Dudess · 02-06-2011 4:35pm

Actually to avoid confusion with The Buzzcocks' drummer John Maher.

Nolanger · 02-06-2011 4:42pm

problemchimp wrote: »

The Smiths were a fantastic band but let's not embarass ourselves by claiming they were Irish.

Much better than the Irish bands that were around in 1983/84.

smokedeels · 02-06-2011 5:00pm

Nolanger wrote: »

Much better than the Irish bands that were around in 1983/84.

As were The Fall but we don't try to claim Mark E. Smith.

denlaw · 02-06-2011 6:13pm

smokedeels wrote: »

As were The Fall but we don't try to claim Mark E. Smith.

why , was he irish ...decent ...
the fall were **** , mark smith is a dick ..

Miguel_Sanchez · 02-06-2011 6:17pm

This thread is possibly the best we've ever had in Alt/Indie.

Carry on.

denlaw · 02-06-2011 6:50pm

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

This thread is possibly the best we've ever had in Alt/Indie.

Carry on.

you serious , i know i'm new to boards but not to forums .

jeff you wum ..

Dudess · 02-06-2011 6:55pm

I predict this will turn into a "Such and such band is my personal favourite/least favourite band therefore they're the best/worst band ever" thread... :pac:

smokedeels · 02-06-2011 6:57pm

I'd like to respond to this

denlaw wrote: »

why , was he irish ...decent ...
the fall were **** , mark smith is a dick ..

with this

Dudess wrote: »

Such and such band is my personal favourite band therefore they're the best band ever

*Runs away from thread, leaving a trail trail of gasoline and flicking a match*

Miguel_Sanchez · 02-06-2011 7:04pm

Irish Blood, English Heart?

denlaw · 02-06-2011 7:13pm

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

Irish Blood, English Heart?

me , yes ..

denlaw · 02-06-2011 7:16pm

smokedeels wrote: »

I'd like to respond to this

with this

*Runs away from thread, leaving a trail trail of gasoline and flicking a match*

i'm too old to worry about this band that band .

Henno30 · 02-06-2011 8:16pm

I suppose there's no chance of them ever playing live again. I'm sure the other 3 would do it but Morrissey would never agree to it. I like Morrissey's stuff and have seen him live a few times but my god he's an insufferable whinge now. I suppose if that level of self-pity produces those songs then it's worth tolerating.

SharpshooterTom · 03-06-2011 5:02am

Johnny Marr considers himself Irish first and foremost AFAIK.

You know it's difficult, I was born and brought up in England till the age of 14. Through that time, I did all the plastic paddy stuff, supported Ireland (over England) in football rugby etc, collected all the republic of ireland jerseys etc. Everyone elses parents were English mine were Irish in a fairly squaddie type town, so when people knew that I was called an Irish bastard and all the rest of it etc.

Then moved here and I was called an English bastard, orange cnut, prod etc. Very confusing and tbh I expected all that.

Sometimes nationalities what you consider yourself rather than what other people tell you should be. I just cannot for the life of me support England in anything in sport. I just do not feel English. Also I know there's a sizeable number of people in England who wouldn't consider me English because I have Irish parents.

I'm 25 coming in august and I'm still confused living here half my life. I'm not sure if I'm Irish, But I don't consider myself English at all, I just don't feel it.

Here's a quote from Johnny Marr -

Well, I am Irish. My parents are from Athy in Kildare and I was the first one in the family born in Manchester. Just like Morrissey will tell you, growing up in an Irish family in Manchester in the 1970s you did feel at a bit of a remove – all those snide comments about Irish people and all of that. It’s something I’ve got in common with Noel Gallagher, because his parents are Irish also. I still look at the Union Jack flag and think: that’s nothing to do with me. (Irish Times, 31 August 2007)

osnola ibax · 03-06-2011 6:34am

npresto wrote: »

The Smiths were fantastic.
Up there with the very best bands ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1MsuoNJQ3U

What a nob.

Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.

Dudess · 03-06-2011 7:22am

Cool post Gnobe. My inner cynic causes me to wonder though whether Marr just said a lot of that stuff because he was being interviewed by an Irish paper. :pac: Not saying he'd be in denial of his Irish roots or anything either though. Ditto Gallagher - used to play up the Irish thing for the Irish media, which of course lapped it up.

denlaw · 03-06-2011 11:57am

osnola ivax wrote: »

What a nob.

Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.

oh dear what a foolish thing to type ..

teekayd25 · 03-06-2011 12:42pm

It's well documented that if you grow up in England to Irish parents, you can end up feeling as an outsider in both countries. In relation to the Smiths, I think Marr has said he feels neither English or Irish, while Morrissey has claimed that he sees himself as both.

Noel Gallagher used to have that Union Jack guitar, but when asked to write a football song for Engerland, had to turn it down because of his / his family's support for the Irish team :

http://fourfourtwo.com/interviews/celebrityfans/192/article.aspx

There was a book put out recently about the whole issue of second-generation Irish within the British music scene . . . what was it the title was again . . .

http://www.nuthousepunks.com/blog/?p=2456#more-2456

AssaultedPeanut · 03-06-2011 3:46pm

English or Irish, they're my all time favourite band

(still consider them English though, not that it matters...)

ItsAWindUp · 03-06-2011 10:39pm

Fantastic band.

Henno30 · 04-06-2011 7:21am

Irish people are far too dismissive of the Irish identity of people born to Irish families abroad. I utterly despise all that 'plastic paddy' talk. It is incredibly ignorant of the reality of growing up with Irish parents in a different country. I've met a lot of second generation Irish over the years who genuinely saw themselves as Irish and were regarded as such by others as well.

I lived with three second generation London lads who were real cockneys with all the frills and I would say they saw themselves as Londoners first, Irish second, and English third. Similarly with Morrissey and Johnny Marr I think Manchester meant more to them than Ireland or England ever did, but they've mentioned their sense of Irishness often enough to consider it a genuine element of their identity as well.

Great Smiths interview with the one and only Tony Wilson as well, from 1985. Well worth watching for Johnny Marr fans in particular for his insight into his guitar influences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCuqKzW6r7M

Sir Graball · 05-06-2011 11:08am

'Punctured bycycle on a hillside -desolate!!'

Saw them in Waterford in 1984.

Did nature make a man of me???:D

Nolanger · 05-06-2011 6:41pm

Me too, standing on the seats as a kid waving my jumper over the head. Great to get into a band before everyone else!

osnola ibax · 05-06-2011 7:06pm

osnola ivax wrote: »

What a nob.

Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.

foolish?? Its an opinion. Newsflash, people are different!

Noel Gallagher is actually a nob though

bayern282 · 05-06-2011 7:23pm

If someone was born in France or Sweden to Irish parents , generally speaking we'd consider them to be Irish nationals born overseas.

It's a bit odd that we deny the English-born Irish their Nationality and Culture merely on the basis that their parents happened to be on another part of these Islands when they were born.

Or the notion that because they have English ( or Tan whatever your viewpoint ) Accents this functions as a complete and utter negation of any Irishness whatsoever, so obviously their Irish parentage, friends, family, support of the GAA, patronage of the local Irish Centre is all some figment of their wannabe ''Plastic Paddy'' imagination.

Irish Parents / Passports (if they have them ) means they're Irish simple as, they're our people, even if you can't bear their London / Brummie / Mancunian accents.

take everything · 05-06-2011 8:27pm

Henno30 wrote: »

Great Smiths interview with the one and only Tony Wilson as well, from 1985. Well worth watching for Johnny Marr fans in particular for his insight into his guitar influences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCuqKzW6r7M

There's some great interviews with Morrissey on Youtube.
There's one lengthy interview with a young Morrissey (which i can't find now) and he comes across as really disarming and engaging.

TommyTippee · 05-06-2011 9:41pm

osnola ivax wrote: »

foolish?? Its an opinion. Newsflash, people are different!

Noel Gallagher is actually a nob though

Saying that they are overrated isn't an opinion. They either are or they aren't overrated.

They're not.

They are an amazing, hugely influential, ground-breaking band. Whether you're a fan or not, if you cannot see what they have contributed to music, then you're not appreciating music at the level you think you are.

In saying that, I don't think The Smiths were trying to endear themselves to people like you.

osnola ibax · 06-06-2011 3:05pm

TommyTippee wrote: »

Saying that they are overrated isn't an opinion. They either are or they aren't overrated.

They're not.

They are an amazing, hugely influential, ground-breaking band. Whether you're a fan or not, if you cannot see what they have contributed to music, then you're not appreciating music at the level you think you are.

In saying that, I don't think The Smiths were trying to endear themselves to people like you.

The majority of people on this thread rate the smiths very highly. I personally dont agree with this high rating relative to other bands who I would consider to be more influential. If this thread is a microcosm of opinion of everyone who has ever heard the smiths, then I consider people to be overrating their influence. Now correct me if im wrong here but am I not entitled to that opinion?

I find Morrisseys melodies to be repetitive and feel that the songs were lyric heavy which is not my thing. Im offering a bit of balance to the discussion, but purely my opinion. I think more room could have been left in the songs for Johnny Marrs guitar who undoubtedly is one of the most original guitarists I have ever heard but I think Morrisseys ego was too big. I think, imo, for me etc etc.

The music of the smiths is of undoubted quality, I particularly like the "ten tonne truck" song, but as I said before it can be a tad repetitive, and wordy - the lyrics are teenage angst stuff and a bit naff though ironic. Personally in terms of sonic influence, if you are looking at an eighties influence, you cant look passed The Cure, now there was a band.

Morgans · 06-06-2011 9:45pm

You of course are entitled to you opinion. I don't think the Smiths are the most influential band ever, and there are some valid criticisms - even if you cant name There is a light that never goes out - but my opinion is that they will be long remembered after The Cure are forgotten.

nlgbbbblth · 06-06-2011 9:49pm

Sir Graball wrote: »

'Punctured bycycle on a hillside -desolate!!'

Saw them in Waterford in 1984.

Did nature make a man of me???:D

Nolanger wrote: »

Me too, standing on the seats as a kid waving my jumper over the head. Great to get into a band before everyone else!

The Savoy supported by James.
Parents wouldn't let me go.

Managed to see them at the National Stadium in February 1986 though. Some gig.

vicwatson · 06-06-2011 9:54pm

He was born Johnny Maher, but changed it to Marr

Was he Maher whilst a "smith" - no, he was a Marr, so....;)

Morgans · 06-06-2011 9:56pm

What difference does it make?

falan · 06-06-2011 10:10pm

Gnobe wrote: »

Johnny Marr considers himself Irish first and foremost AFAIK.

You know it's difficult, I was born and brought up in England till the age of 14. Through that time, I did all the plastic paddy stuff, supported Ireland (over England) in football rugby etc, collected all the republic of ireland jerseys etc. Everyone elses parents were English mine were Irish in a fairly squaddie type town, so when people knew that I was called an Irish bastard and all the rest of it etc.

Then moved here and I was called an English bastard, orange cnut, prod etc. Very confusing and tbh I expected all that.

Sometimes nationalities what you consider yourself rather than what other people tell you should be. I just cannot for the life of me support England in anything in sport. I just do not feel English. Also I know there's a sizeable number of people in England who wouldn't consider me English because I have Irish parents.

I'm 25 coming in august and I'm still confused living here half my life. I'm not sure if I'm Irish, But I don't consider myself English at all, I just don't feel it.

Here's a quote from Johnny Marr -

Good post. Thats pretty much the story of my life.

Smiths are one of my all time favourite bands.

The smiths

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