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The smiths

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Johnny Marr considers himself Irish first and foremost AFAIK.

    You know it's difficult, I was born and brought up in England till the age of 14. Through that time, I did all the plastic paddy stuff, supported Ireland (over England) in football rugby etc, collected all the republic of ireland jerseys etc. Everyone elses parents were English mine were Irish in a fairly squaddie type town, so when people knew that I was called an Irish bastard and all the rest of it etc.

    Then moved here and I was called an English bastard, orange cnut, prod etc. Very confusing and tbh I expected all that.

    Sometimes nationalities what you consider yourself rather than what other people tell you should be. I just cannot for the life of me support England in anything in sport. I just do not feel English. Also I know there's a sizeable number of people in England who wouldn't consider me English because I have Irish parents.

    I'm 25 coming in august and I'm still confused living here half my life. I'm not sure if I'm Irish, But I don't consider myself English at all, I just don't feel it.

    Here's a quote from Johnny Marr -
    Well, I am Irish. My parents are from Athy in Kildare and I was the first one in the family born in Manchester. Just like Morrissey will tell you, growing up in an Irish family in Manchester in the 1970s you did feel at a bit of a remove – all those snide comments about Irish people and all of that. It’s something I’ve got in common with Noel Gallagher, because his parents are Irish also. I still look at the Union Jack flag and think: that’s nothing to do with me. (Irish Times, 31 August 2007)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    npresto wrote: »
    The Smiths were fantastic.
    Up there with the very best bands ever.


    What a nob.

    Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Cool post Gnobe. My inner cynic causes me to wonder though whether Marr just said a lot of that stuff because he was being interviewed by an Irish paper. :pac: Not saying he'd be in denial of his Irish roots or anything either though. Ditto Gallagher - used to play up the Irish thing for the Irish media, which of course lapped it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 406 ✭✭denlaw


    What a nob.

    Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.

    oh dear what a foolish thing to type ..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 252 ✭✭teekayd25


    It's well documented that if you grow up in England to Irish parents, you can end up feeling as an outsider in both countries. In relation to the Smiths, I think Marr has said he feels neither English or Irish, while Morrissey has claimed that he sees himself as both.

    Noel Gallagher used to have that Union Jack guitar, but when asked to write a football song for Engerland, had to turn it down because of his / his family's support for the Irish team :

    http://fourfourtwo.com/interviews/celebrityfans/192/article.aspx

    There was a book put out recently about the whole issue of second-generation Irish within the British music scene . . . what was it the title was again . . .

    http://www.nuthousepunks.com/blog/?p=2456#more-2456


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 806 ✭✭✭AssaultedPeanut


    English or Irish, they're my all time favourite band :)



    (still consider them English though, not that it matters...)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Fantastic band.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭Henno30


    Irish people are far too dismissive of the Irish identity of people born to Irish families abroad. I utterly despise all that 'plastic paddy' talk. It is incredibly ignorant of the reality of growing up with Irish parents in a different country. I've met a lot of second generation Irish over the years who genuinely saw themselves as Irish and were regarded as such by others as well.

    I lived with three second generation London lads who were real cockneys with all the frills and I would say they saw themselves as Londoners first, Irish second, and English third. Similarly with Morrissey and Johnny Marr I think Manchester meant more to them than Ireland or England ever did, but they've mentioned their sense of Irishness often enough to consider it a genuine element of their identity as well.

    Great Smiths interview with the one and only Tony Wilson as well, from 1985. Well worth watching for Johnny Marr fans in particular for his insight into his guitar influences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Sir Graball


    'Punctured bycycle on a hillside -desolate!!'

    Saw them in Waterford in 1984.

    Did nature make a man of me???:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,556 ✭✭✭Nolanger


    Me too, standing on the seats as a kid waving my jumper over the head. Great to get into a band before everyone else!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    What a nob.

    Smiths overrated. Too wordy and a tad repetitive for me.

    foolish?? Its an opinion. Newsflash, people are different!

    Noel Gallagher is actually a nob though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭bayern282


    If someone was born in France or Sweden to Irish parents , generally speaking we'd consider them to be Irish nationals born overseas.

    It's a bit odd that we deny the English-born Irish their Nationality and Culture merely on the basis that their parents happened to be on another part of these Islands when they were born.

    Or the notion that because they have English ( or Tan whatever your viewpoint ) Accents this functions as a complete and utter negation of any Irishness whatsoever, so obviously their Irish parentage, friends, family, support of the GAA, patronage of the local Irish Centre is all some figment of their wannabe ''Plastic Paddy'' imagination.

    Irish Parents / Passports (if they have them ) means they're Irish simple as, they're our people, even if you can't bear their London / Brummie / Mancunian accents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭take everything


    Henno30 wrote: »

    Great Smiths interview with the one and only Tony Wilson as well, from 1985. Well worth watching for Johnny Marr fans in particular for his insight into his guitar influences.


    There's some great interviews with Morrissey on Youtube.
    There's one lengthy interview with a young Morrissey (which i can't find now) and he comes across as really disarming and engaging.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭TommyTippee


    foolish?? Its an opinion. Newsflash, people are different!

    Noel Gallagher is actually a nob though

    Saying that they are overrated isn't an opinion. They either are or they aren't overrated.

    They're not.

    They are an amazing, hugely influential, ground-breaking band. Whether you're a fan or not, if you cannot see what they have contributed to music, then you're not appreciating music at the level you think you are.

    In saying that, I don't think The Smiths were trying to endear themselves to people like you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Saying that they are overrated isn't an opinion. They either are or they aren't overrated.

    They're not.

    They are an amazing, hugely influential, ground-breaking band. Whether you're a fan or not, if you cannot see what they have contributed to music, then you're not appreciating music at the level you think you are.

    In saying that, I don't think The Smiths were trying to endear themselves to people like you.

    The majority of people on this thread rate the smiths very highly. I personally dont agree with this high rating relative to other bands who I would consider to be more influential. If this thread is a microcosm of opinion of everyone who has ever heard the smiths, then I consider people to be overrating their influence. Now correct me if im wrong here but am I not entitled to that opinion?

    I find Morrisseys melodies to be repetitive and feel that the songs were lyric heavy which is not my thing. Im offering a bit of balance to the discussion, but purely my opinion. I think more room could have been left in the songs for Johnny Marrs guitar who undoubtedly is one of the most original guitarists I have ever heard but I think Morrisseys ego was too big. I think, imo, for me etc etc.

    The music of the smiths is of undoubted quality, I particularly like the "ten tonne truck" song, but as I said before it can be a tad repetitive, and wordy - the lyrics are teenage angst stuff and a bit naff though ironic. Personally in terms of sonic influence, if you are looking at an eighties influence, you cant look passed The Cure, now there was a band.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭Morgans


    You of course are entitled to you opinion. I don't think the Smiths are the most influential band ever, and there are some valid criticisms - even if you cant name There is a light that never goes out - but my opinion is that they will be long remembered after The Cure are forgotten.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    'Punctured bycycle on a hillside -desolate!!'

    Saw them in Waterford in 1984.

    Did nature make a man of me???:D
    Nolanger wrote: »
    Me too, standing on the seats as a kid waving my jumper over the head. Great to get into a band before everyone else!

    The Savoy supported by James.
    Parents wouldn't let me go.

    Managed to see them at the National Stadium in February 1986 though. Some gig.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    He was born Johnny Maher, but changed it to Marr

    Was he Maher whilst a "smith" - no, he was a Marr, so....;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭Morgans


    What difference does it make?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Gnobe wrote: »
    Johnny Marr considers himself Irish first and foremost AFAIK.

    You know it's difficult, I was born and brought up in England till the age of 14. Through that time, I did all the plastic paddy stuff, supported Ireland (over England) in football rugby etc, collected all the republic of ireland jerseys etc. Everyone elses parents were English mine were Irish in a fairly squaddie type town, so when people knew that I was called an Irish bastard and all the rest of it etc.

    Then moved here and I was called an English bastard, orange cnut, prod etc. Very confusing and tbh I expected all that.

    Sometimes nationalities what you consider yourself rather than what other people tell you should be. I just cannot for the life of me support England in anything in sport. I just do not feel English. Also I know there's a sizeable number of people in England who wouldn't consider me English because I have Irish parents.

    I'm 25 coming in august and I'm still confused living here half my life. I'm not sure if I'm Irish, But I don't consider myself English at all, I just don't feel it.

    Here's a quote from Johnny Marr -
    Good post. Thats pretty much the story of my life.

    Smiths are one of my all time favourite bands.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭take everything


    foolish?? Its an opinion. Newsflash, people are different!

    Noel Gallagher is actually a nob though
    Saying that they are overrated isn't an opinion. They either are or they aren't overrated.

    They're not.

    They are an amazing, hugely influential, ground-breaking band. Whether you're a fan or not, if you cannot see what they have contributed to music, then you're not appreciating music at the level you think you are.

    In saying that, I don't think The Smiths were trying to endear themselves to people like you.

    Big mouth(s) strikes again indeed. :rolleyes:
    Heaven knows i'm miserable now listening to the two of you.
    Ask: what difference does it make?

    /awaits that joke isn't funny anymore. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Henno30 wrote: »
    Irish people are far too dismissive of the Irish identity of people born to Irish families abroad.
    I wouldn't be at all, but I think people simply mean the experience of growing up as Irish in a different country cannot be the same as that in Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭TommyTippee


    I particularly like the "ten tonne truck" song

    you don't even know the name of one of their most popular songs yet feel your opinion on them is worth hearing

    it's not

    christ almighty


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    Everyone's opinion is worth hearing.

    But this thread is starting to go in circles.

    If the my opinion is valid/yours isn't roundabout isn't departed from then this thread's future can be summed up in the words of a young lad called Stephen who once sang, "I know it's over...."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Morgans wrote: »
    and there are some valid criticisms - even if you cant name There is a light that never goes out

    and this is the problem, the song title is too long ;), should be called "ten tonne truck". Its like The Boy With The Thorn in His Side - title too long and Morrissey never shuts up on the track. Johnny Marr is playing a nice little jangly guitar part, as he does, and even when there is no lyrics, Morrissey is oohing and aahing and generally whining. Speaking of There is a Light That Never Goes Out, its hard to distinguish the melody from Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now.

    I just read a couple of peoples opinions of the band on another BBC forum and I guess they were of a certain time and place that resonates with those from the same time / place in particular.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭TommyTippee


    Everyone's opinion is worth hearing.

    I don't agree. The chap obviously knows very little about the band.

    I don't volunteer my opinion on the Treaty of Versailles for this reason....it would be bullsh*t.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    you don't even know the name of one of their most popular songs yet feel your opinion on them is worth hearing

    it's not

    christ almighty

    This is ridiculous. That was a throwaway remark. You are spitting the dummy because I don't like a band as much as you and have now given my reasons why. I have every Smiths Album and know their music intimately. Thanks be to god they don't have to many but for how long can you keep pedalling that sound, they ran out of ideas. Morrissey wanted to do Cilla Black covers and Johnny Marr got out as quick as he could. The lack of longevity with this band speaks volumes.

    Now stop trying to invalidate someones opinion because it is different to yours and Mods, please see that it is not me who is the protaganist in this matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    This is going nowhere. Thread closed.



This discussion has been closed.
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