Legalize Cannabis Ireland

FatRat

I read in Time magazine last week about Uruguay and it's plans to legalize weed for the purpose of boosting the economy and fighting crime. They're obviously thinking logically. I found and article (besides the Time magazine one) albeit not a very good one. But imagine a country did full legalize it? (Bear in mind it isn't LEGAL in any country in the world, not even Holland, look it up if need be). I think creativity would burst out in all different direction and the worlds would, for once, shy away from the stereotypes surrounding weed and might actually see it for what it is........ it is a drug that causes so little harm, and has so many benefits that a country has decided to legalize it. Maybe other countries would follow Uruguay's example and start seeing it for what it is. If Uruguay do legalize it we can await an inevitable boost in their economy. Here's a half-decent article of the matter.

Montevideo, Uruguay – There are many theories, both conspiratorial and sensible, as to why marijuana is illegal in the majority of the world. For Americans, who seem to understand only the nation they live in, it is tied to economic and business concerns worried about the cheap hemp products and the effect that would have on their businesses.


That may well have been a motivation when the drug was outlawed back in the 1930’s but only paints a partial picture. Marijuana is, in fact, illegal through the vast majority of the world. In some places simple possession could land you in prison for years. The illegal nature of weed is pretty universal and not all inspired by American interests.


As a product, Marijuana is really the least dangerous of just about every drug on the planet. As it is used by most people weed is little more than a sedative, a drink without the headache but convincing people of that fact and trying to coerce them into accepting the drug as legal is an uphill battle for advocates. Those advocates have made progress though and have now made the drug legal in varying degrees throughout the world including Uruguay which is barely even a country at all but still more progressive than the United States.


“I do not yet know when his government will present Uruguay's Congress with the legislative proposal,” said Uruguayan President Jose Mujica. “The plan is for the government to sell marijuana at a cheap and reasonable price then monitor what each consumer use. We would like to take the drug profits from the hands of the criminals.”


The proposal is expected to pass as Mujica’s party has the majority of the seats in the senate or whatever it is they use in Uruguay.
If passed the law would make Uruguay the first ‘country’ to sell marijuana directly.


“This is certainly good news for potheads all across Uruguay but I don’t imagine it will mean much to anyone outside that country owing to the fact that it is indeed Uruguay. I mean it’s not like that country is going to lead a weed revolution that will take over the world, that from there the whole world will turn over a new leaf and suddenly indulge in pot use. That’s just silly, honestly, almost ridiculous in fact,” said Scrape TV Drug Policy analyst Jason Walker. “This is really just an isolated thing that will affect the people of that country and possibly the neighbouring areas who might possibly want to come across the border as though a border really matters with that country even one little bit. Seriously, Uruguay is progressive. Weird.”


Uruguay has other law changes on the books like that matters at all.
“This is certainly going to be news for activists who want to believe that something like this will actually pave a way for legalizing weed all across the world but they are, as usual, just kind of high if they think this is going to change things one little bit. It’s friggin’ Uruguay after all, I mean c’mon,” continued Walker. “It’d be nice if this happened in real country, even another one in South America but because it’s happening where it is it really doesn’t mean much of anything at all I would be, in the long run, or at all ever today or tomorrow or whenever man.”


Uruguayan officials refused comment on this article after learning of the nature attitude it takes.

Stiffler2

mikom wrote: »

Cannabis has been in use for far longer than alcohol........ to think otherwise would be naive.



Too early.
That's all you're getting...

lol - wrong

MagicSean

ScumLord wrote: »

So has cannabis, it's widespread use only stopped after prohibition. Cannabis has been used for longer than alcohol and by more people. So that argument is pure nonsense.


It's use is already widespread it's just underground. Cannabis also won't suit everybody. It's a completely different high from alcohol, there's no reason to think it's widespread use would have any resemblance to widespread alcohol use.

but cannabis use is not currently used as much as alcohol. Maybe it was four decades ago but studies weren't as prolific or accurate then as they are now.

Until it is used openly it won't be possible to see what it is connected with. Ask any doctor or nurse. A person will always say they have not smoked cannabis when being admitted. Until the time when people can admit to using it openly it won't be possible to properly assess it's affects.

mikom

Stiffler2 wrote: »

lol - wrong

Jack frost says otherwise.
I'll leave it at that otherwise the tread will end up getting locked.

tdv123

ScumLord wrote: »

No they can't, they have to go to a doctor and get a prescription that allows them to buy from dispensaries. It's supposedly easy enough to get a doctor to prescribe it but you can't simply walk in off the street and buy weed.


America practically invented modern recreational drug use, they certainly popularised it. They also have the global positioning, money, local knowledge and opportunity to easily import and manufacture drugs. It's not surprising they have lots of drugs on offer.

Well they walk in of the streets to the doctors office & then in to a store. Point is it's very is to purchase it might aswell be competley legal.

But the drugs they had on offer there are available in Ireland & the UK as well difference being theres a higher demand for them over there probably becuase of the media attention given to them & glamourising of them.

Stiffler2

mikom wrote: »

Jack frost says otherwise.
I'll leave it at that otherwise the tread will end up getting locked.

Okay okay, last thing I'll say though is Jorge Cervantes is where I get my info from, he created "The Bible" ( the grow bible )

so I'll just leave it at that as I don't want the thread locked

mikom

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Okay okay, last thing I'll say though is Jorge Cervantes is where I get my info from, he created "The Bible" ( the grow bible )

Jorge Cervantes is Californian........... that may be your problem.
Over and out.

ScumLord

MagicSean wrote: »

but cannabis use is not currently used as much as alcohol. Maybe it was four decades ago but studies weren't as prolific or accurate then as they are now.

I think if there was a big problem there it would be apparent by now, so many people have used cannabis for so much of their lives they should have symptoms. I have yet to see it, I've known 50 and 60 year old smokers that don't show any signs of negative effects. Most the people I know that smoke have been at it for at least a decade and if they used alcohol like they use cannabis they wouldn't have a job, probably wouldn't even be alive. Millions of people use cannabis regularly.

Until it is used openly it won't be possible to see what it is connected with.

That's true up to a point, you just can't know for sure until it happens but I don't think there's any evidence to say things will be all that different.

Ask any doctor or nurse. A person will always say they have not smoked cannabis when being admitted. Until the time when people can admit to using it openly it won't be possible to properly assess it's affects.

The shame associated with cannabis might encourage people to lie but at the same time going into a hospital fearing the worst you'll blab everything to your doctor. I have no problems telling my doctor I use cannabis.

Tym

In hollond where Cannabis is legal and regulated the chances of someone expermenting/ trying heroin is 1/1000. In ireland where cannabis is illegal the chances of taking heroin is 1/60.

Source?

So has cannabis, it's widespread use only stopped after prohibition. Cannabis has been used for longer than alcohol and by more people. So that argument is pure nonsense.

What date was cannabis made illegal? Before the second world war? Before the collasal improvement in medical care and disease detection?

It's use is already widespread it's just underground.

Because alcohol is legitimized a vast majority of people, when compared to people who smoke wee, use it regularly, so of course it's more widespread than cannabis.

mikom

Tym wrote: »

when compared to people who smoke wee,

Too hardcore for my tastes...

crazy cabbage

Tym wrote: »

Source?

Errrrmmmm. In the video in the opening comment??? :rolleyes: Ming quotes from The Trimbos Institute which is a centre of expertise on mental health and addiction...
I love reading the opening comments. you can learn so much

Tym wrote: »

What date was cannabis made illegal? Before the second world war? Before the collasal improvement in medical care and disease detection?

That is complicated enough to answer. Short answer is 1937 in America. For the long proper answer watch The Union. That is the best documentry on Cannabis out there. Has everything in there and all the science to back it up. Recommend that you watch it.

akura

I can roll a joint with one hand and drink vodka without a mixer....

token101

You have to laugh when people quote stats from Portugal, Holland, etc when it comes to the positive benefits after decriminalisation. They are totally different societies! When it comes to substance abuse, they don't have the enormous alcohol problems that Ireland has. I doubt very much legalising cannabis would have many, if any, positive benefits for Irish society.

Boombastic

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Ok. i appologise. In hollond you are not allowed to possess more then 5 grams of cannabis in a public area or 30 grams in a private area. - For cultivation you may not exceed the amount of 5 plants.

This is a play on words. while it is not legal it still allows people to grow more than enough for themselves, keep a big amount in there home and carry a fair amound on there person without being able to be touched by the law.

So basicly they are just stoping people from growing massivie fields of cannibus and having a ton of the stuff in there homes. This i agree with. Controls have to be put in place.

Not legal, it's decriminalised


Difference being if you are caught for other crimes they can (if they so desire) charge you with drug offences

and not just in Holland but in the whole of The Netherlands!

mikom

token101 wrote: »

You have to laugh when people quote stats from Portugal, Holland, etc when it comes to the positive benefits after decriminalisation. They are totally different societies! When it comes to substance abuse, they don't have the enormous alcohol problems that Ireland has. I doubt very much legalising cannabis would have many, if any, positive benefits for Irish society.

What?
You do realise what Portugal was like for substance abuse before decriminalization.
It was rampant.......... so as last option they decriminalized.
They didn't decriminalize for fun.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.
"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html#ixzz20Koz0ifd

Yes....... you have to laugh.

Azure_sky

I don't smoke pot but I think low grade drugs and the sex industry should be legalised, taxed and responsibly regulated. These demands will never go away and when used correctly they're of no harm to society, in fact I would say alcohol is a far worse vice than any of them. It would take the criminal element out of them and make money. Of course no politician has the balls to do it. Look at the U.S.A., they poured billions into the "War on drugs" and it's a battle they can never win.

Boombastic

Azure_sky wrote: »

I don't smoke pot but I think low grade drugs and the sex industry should be legalised, taxed and responsibly regulated. These demands will never go away and when used correctly they're of no harm to society, in fact I would say alcohol is a far worse vice than any of them. It would take the criminal element out of them and make money. Of course no politician has the balls to do it. Look at the U.S.A., they poured billions into the "War on drugs" and it's a battle they can never win.

Yes, war on Drugs by the USA, while at the the same time they're relaxing their laws in a lot of the states

token101

mikom wrote: »

What?
You do realise what Portugal was like for substance abuse before decriminalization.
It was rampant.......... so as last option they decriminalized.
They didn't decriminalize for fun.



Yes....... you have to laugh.

I'd always be in favour of the decriminalisation of drugs so that addicts are not criminalised and are treated rather than punished. But fully legalising cannabis to the point where you can walk into a shop and buy some once you're over 18? I wouldn't be sold on that, not in Ireland. Head shops were legalised and that was a disaster. I'm not comparing the substances sold there to cannabis, not at all, but I'd be willing to bet, despite those stats from that study, that easy access to cannabis wouldn't see a decrease in Ireland. I'd bet that it would go up. As for the drug gangs & violence, we still have cigarette smuggling even though they are legal, so whilst it might weaken them I doubt it would eliminate them. You'll always have drug gangs regardless. But at the same time, you do have to wonder what politicians are actually thinking about when you see statements like the below from this article:

It comes after Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke told the MPs last week that the UK was "plainly losing" the war on drugs - and may even be going backwards.

But he insisted he was personally opposed to decriminalisation and that the Government had "no intention whatever" of relaxing the law.

Sounds like pandering to the electorate.

christmas2012

agrument for legislation - it would more than pay off our debts to the eu markets
- we would have more jobs in our communities due to coffee shops
- we would have a constant stream of business coming our way in the form of tourists and other associated businesses profiting(like hotels and b&b's and restaurants..

currently,we have in ireland,countless restaurants shutting down,people jobless or afraid of losing their job due to business down turn in retail and restaurants..legalising cannabis would ensure 1) jobs 2) no businesses failing and having to close due to lack of tourism and local native business..

ryoishin

This answers alot of the questions around cannabis.

Ive never touched it but the more and more I read about it the more it seems its not harmful, within reason. Its like a wonder plant for building, healing and possibly introspection. There seems to be a whole industry surrounded in keeping it illegal effecting the reality of the of what essentially is just a plant.

Regarding turning up to work with your full faculties. That applies to everything and alcohol would have a way bigger effect on your performance. Heck I ve often spent Monday daydreaming about the great sex I had at the weekend or on how happy my daughter makes me.

If your getting your view from whats on TV then your just a sheep feeding off what the media wants you to believe.

Wattle

Funny the way that the 'gateway drug' has been replaced by the 'may cause psychosis' arguement. You never hear the gateway arguement anymore.

I wonder what it will be in another ten years time?

tdv123

I think Cannabis should be made legal because it's great, infact I think Cocaine should be made legal as well incase I don't get enough of a buzz from the Cannabis.

token101

christmas2012 wrote: »

agrument for legislation - it would more than pay off our debts to the eu markets

You mean the Troika? No, it wouldn't!

christmas2012 wrote: »

- we would have more jobs in our communities due to coffee shops
- we would have a constant stream of business coming our way in the form of tourists and other associated businesses profiting(like hotels and b&b's and restaurants..

currently,we have in ireland,countless restaurants shutting down,people jobless or afraid of losing their job due to business down turn in retail and restaurants..legalising cannabis would ensure 1) jobs 2) no businesses failing and having to close due to lack of tourism and local native business..

What? Legalising cannabis would mean businesses wouldn't close? Have you thought this through? I don't see the likes of Tullamore becoming haven for drug tourists! :pac:

token101

ryoishin wrote: »

This answers alot of the questions around cannabis.

Ive never touched it but the more and more I read about it the more it seems its not harmful, within reason. Its like a wonder plant for building, healing and possibly introspection. There seems to be a whole industry surrounded in keeping it illegal effecting the reality of the of what essentially is just a plant.

Regarding turning up to work with your full faculties. That applies to everything and alcohol would have a way bigger effect on your performance. Heck I ve often spent Monday daydreaming about the great sex I had at the weekend or on how happy my daughter makes me.

If your getting your view from whats on TV then your just a sheep feeding off what the media wants you to believe.

How about psychiatrists? What's their agenda?

ryoishin

Agenda?

Are you referring to to the risk to those who are susceptible to schizophrenia. No ones denying that but if your susceptible to cholesterol issues you should nt eat more than 6 (grain fed) eggs a week! Wheres the line.

The point is people should be trusted to know their limits. If someone who uses cannabis messes up their life then chances are they would have messed up their life regardless.

Gbear

Some people approach this argument from an "end justifies the means" point of view, some approach it from an authoritarian point of view.

The authoritarian point of view is that certain people should decide what's best for others, even if they have no stake in the activity in question.
It's a fundamentally immoral argument.
"I don't like cannabis so don't use it.
Anything else I've arbitrarily decided I don't want people to do is also banned".
No rational explanation is required to justify it.
It's seen in many issues - a topical one being homosexual marriage.
I think it's rooted in a primative "yuck response" and it's fueled by ignorance, a lack of empathy and an inability to rationally appraise information.

Then, there's the ends justifying the means argument. I don't think it has any merit either but I accept that many people do.

For heroin, cocaine, crack etc.. fair enough, there's a debate to be had on whether the requirement for personal freedom supersedes the harmful effects.
The problem is that it doesn't apply to cannabis at all because it's so completely benign. It being lumped in with the more serious drugs and it's illegal status is a completely cultural construct and has no basis in any facts, evidence or logical thought.

dttq

Cannabis is safer than alcohol and nicotine. Hundreds of medical journal reports have given pot a green light for health purposes. Cannabis was also used in medicine for thousands of years, can be used in the cancer treatment process, and its even been suggested that cannabis smoke might be good for the lungs.

http://www.inquisitr.com/179549/smoking-marijuana-is-good-for-your-lungs-recent-study/

The polar opposite of cancerous, life shortening drugs like nicotine. I also find nothing more annoying that Conservatives both here and abroad who go into an offensive over the "nanny state" when it comes to cigarettes, booze and fast food. "Grrr, nanny state trying to tell us where to smoke and what to eat". The very same types who are often the most stalwartly opponents of letting grown adults experiment with other drugs which aren't alcohol and cigarettes, and support toughening legislation against users and furthering the war on drugs.

Ironic that a safe and harmless plant is illegal, considering all of the dangerous, man made and manufactured crap out there at the moment which is legal (specifically cigarettes and certain pharmaceuticals)

crazy cabbage

ryoishin wrote: »

Agenda?

Are you referring to to the risk to those who are susceptible to schizophrenia. No ones denying that but if your susceptible to cholesterol issues you should nt eat more than 6 (grain fed) eggs a week! Wheres the line.

The point is people should be trusted to know their limits. If someone who uses cannabis messes up their life then chances are they would have messed up their life regardless.

exatly. Just becouse it is possilbe to abuse something is not in itself grounds for that something to be illegal. Just becouse a small % of people may (and i say may becouse there is alot of conflicting evidance) be at risk of schizophrenia is not grounds for it to be illegal.

People are not stupid.
people know what abusing something is and wont do it in general. If they do then they are a very small minoraty who were going to do something stupid anyway.

for example knives can be abused. I can pull a stastic out of somewhere that show that ab% of people have abused knives and are now maimed/dead. This doesn't mean that knives should be illegal and to suggest so is simply silly. millions of people across the globe can use dinner knives in a muture and civil mannor.

The same goes for 'weed'. Yes there is a small minoraty of people that may abuse it now. Legilastion can only help these people becouse they would have to go through regulated channels to get it and can and will be refused it.
Also people who feel that it is having a negative impact on there lives would be able to get treatment and not be treated like a crinimal by society.

I dont like to drink becouse i tend to get agressive when i drink so i dont do it.
I dont smoke tobacco becouse i know it is bad for me and simply hate it
I would love to vap 'weed' however society laws will not let me. i dont want to be a crinmal so i dont but i would love to.

Where does free will come into this? Do the poeple on the no side support freewill? If so then you must agree that people have to be aloud free will regardless of weather or not you agree with them. To say that you support freewill but only if people agree with you is the most retarded thing i have ever heard of. The definition of freewill alows for difference of opinions.
When i say freewill what i mean is freewill as long as it is not surpressing others freewill. For example i am not saying that i have the freewill to go out and murdersomeone. That would be depriving them of there freewill so is wrong.

I personly dont really care what your views are on 'weed'. If you believe in the strange concept of freewill then you must by extention support other freewill. Then you must agree that they should be aloud weed as long as it doesn't effect you.

Correct?


yea. sorry i went off on a bit of a rant there. The fact that this is illegal just really really fustrates me

Tym

It's seen in many issues - a topical one being homosexual marriage.
I think it's rooted in a primative "yuck response" and it's fueled by ignorance, a lack of empathy and an inability to rationally appraise information.

So your comparing people in their struggle to affirm their love for each other as fully as possible (in their minds) to not being able to smoke weed?

millions of people across the globe can use dinner knives in a muture and civil mannor.

Okay...your comparing smoking weed to using a dinner knife. Right, not really the same in any way, shape or form.

crazy cabbage

Tym wrote: »

Okay...your comparing smoking weed to using a dinner knife. Right, not really the same in any way, shape or form.

If you had bothered to read the rest of my post you would have seen that my point was that just becouse something can be abuse doesn't mean that it should be illegal. My freewill has to transend your personal opinion.

Are you trying to say that just becouse you do not agree with something (that doesn't effect you) that no one should be aloud to do that something?

you cant just take one sentance of my post and run with it. I used knives as an example as how people can act mature and civil with what can be something that is dangerous

by the way knives have actully cause much more damage than 'weed'

So i will ask you again. Do you believe that I should have freewill regardless of your opinion of me?