What sort of country are we?

sollar

I was just watching prime-time investigates there and couldn't believe what i was seeing. What sort of country won't even give a medical card to a motor neurons disease sufferer so they can access the services they require.

We are pumping billions into banks/bondholders etc but we cant look after someone like that. Its very very sad.

byhookorbycrook

I have MS, no medical card for me either.

FearDark

I don't usually comment on government/bankers/state of the country threads, in fact I never have. But that was absolutely disgraceful, those poor people on that programme, this country is a fúcking joke.

OutlawPete

Country went to hell in a handbasket a long long tome ago when it comes to the most vulnerable members of our society.

Carers being just one shocking example of how we walk on those we should be holding in the highest of regards.

Sunnyisland

There is a follow on primetime now.

iamwhoiam

We need to scream out to out TDs now ., These people deserve more , our people deserve more . Makes me so very sad to be part of this now ,

Biggins

I have to say, credit to Primetime, they have been really hitting some serious issues this last year or so.

The Scientician

After watching that I'm hoping to die before I'm 40.

byhookorbycrook

and 2.5 million on a garden
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056282942

pragmatic1

Most of our elected officials dont have the balls to stand up for their people. The people who do have the balls are called "looney lefties". Fighting Irish indeed.

pragmatic1

Biggins wrote: »

I have to say, credit to Primetime, they have been really hitting some serious issues this last year or so.

Probably because Fianna Fail are out of power.

hatrickpatrick

sollar wrote: »

We are pumping billions into banks/bondholders etc but we cant look after someone like that. Its very very sad.

Underlines the point I've been making since the start of this whole mess about Europe's position, specifically: "You MUST repay the gamblers who made bad decisions and are now butthurt about it! close schools if you must, let your roads fall apart, evict your hospital patients, fire thousands of public workers, deny thousands of young people a free education, stop policing the country, hell stop providing a justice system if you must, but ON NO ACCOUNT ARE YOU ALLOWED TO LET FAILED BANKS' INVESTORS PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKES LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE WOULD!!!!!!!!!"

Pisses me off SO damn much. Bondholders choose to invest. It's not the government's problem if a private company fails.

FesterBeatty

Why is it the responsibility of a television show to uncover these issues! What a f*cking joke! As to what sort of a country we are, it seems we are simply highly corrupt and grossly incompetent!

who what when

sollar wrote: »

What sort of country won't even give a medical card to a motor neurons disease sufferer so they can access the services they require.

Most countries in the world dont have any sort of welfare system at all!

sollar

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have MS, no medical card for me either.

Thats shocking. This is one issue that really needs to be put to politicians forcefully. They can't be allowed to duck, dive and bluff on this issue.

Biggins

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Probably because Fianna Fail are out of power.

Hopefully never to return for a long, long time.

sollar wrote: »

Thats shocking. This is one issue that really needs to be put to politicians forcefully. They can't be allowed to duck, dive and bluff on this issue.

...But you know a lot of them will.

RMD

I very rarely support these "rabble rabble rabble I hate the government" threads, but I'll certainly agree in this case. This country is a pure and utter fúcking joke when it comes to providing healthcare to people, or trying to help them get the sufficient healthcare needed if it's not available here.

What Pragmatic says is true 100%. There's not 1 TD in this country who has the balls to stand up and do we what we elected them to do, be vocal and represent the people. They'd rather play it calmly and gain favour within their party, than do the job they fúcking ran for.

ArtSmart

who what when wrote: »

Most countries in the world dont have any sort of welfare system at all!

always important to compare like with like.

below is a breakdown on Irish social support payments compared to Europe.

finally the 'we pay too much' nutters will be silenced. (as if)

wrote:

This paper has sought to provide a summary of how Irish social welfare expenditure compares to our European neighbours, with particular reference to the EU15, as the most appropriate comparator. This information is critical in any debate on the ‘generosity’ of Ireland’s social welfare system.
Myths and misinformation regarding Ireland’s social welfare rates contributes to stigmatisation and stereotyping of people experiencing poverty, and bolsters a culture of blame and marginalisation. The rate of unemployment transfers in Ireland is not generous by European standards.
In fact not only are social welfare rates much lower but Ireland’s overall spending on social protection is exceptionally low.

http://www.eapn.ie/documents/1_Social%20Welfare%20How%20Ireland%20Compares%20in%20Europe.pdf

sollar

Biggins wrote: »

...But you know a lot of them will.

What amazed me about this is that the HSE can and do issue discretionary medical cards. But if people with serious illness aren't getting them who is??

The Princess Bride

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We need to scream out to out TDs now ., These people deserve more , our people deserve more . Makes me so very sad to be part of this now ,

Don't waste your breath- they won't listen as they're sitting in their cushy seat in Dáil Eireann.

Scream before next election,if you like.

Biggins

sollar wrote: »

What amazed me about this is that the HSE can and do issue discretionary medical cards. But if people with serious illness aren't getting them who is??

Well for one your local drug addicts that show no signs of coming off them (NOT having at go at the ones that ARE trying and they should be supported in their efforts) but willing to use them because all their money is being spent on their habit for a start.

They are only one lot, I'm sure others can think of other categories.

themadchef

Not only do they have to put up with the pain of watching a loved one suffer they have the indignity of having to beg for assistance from our state.

Shame on our government, and shame on us for not forcing the issue, all of us.

hatrickpatrick

sollar wrote: »

What amazed me about this is that the HSE can and do issue discretionary medical cards. But if people with serious illness aren't getting them who is??

Chief Executive's daughter who wants a boob job. Managing director's uncle who has a liking for morphine. Director's best friend who has an ingrown toenail and needs to have it removed. He also happens to manage the bank which will happily give the director a multi million euro holiday loan with an indefinite repayment schedule a few weeks later.

Etc.

This country is a joke.

starviewadams

The story of the woman who's young daughter has severe autism and who was denied a carer was truly heartbreaking,I wish that I was a rich man so that I could help people in those sort of situations.

galwayrush

No medical card here despite wife having cancer., but i do have the revenue people giving me all sort of threats because i spent too much money on her health, apparently i should have given it all to them and let her die.
Actually rang them up and told them it would be to the benifit of the sheriff's health and well being not to visit me to steal my hard earned possesions.

Knine

Unfortunately this is the reality of life for carers and I know because I am a full time carer and I had tears in my eyes watching Primetime tonight and wondering what the future may hold.

It made me sick last week when we had the Queen and co over and the amount of money spent on it and now tonight Ireland gets a glimpse of the reality of life for the most vunerable of Irelands society.:mad:

sollar

starviewadams wrote: »

The story of the woman who's young daughter has severe autism and who was denied a carer was truly heartbreaking,I wish that I was a rich man so that I could help people in those sort of situations.

We were rich once apparently and the man at the helm who could have made a difference said his big regret was not building the Bertie bowl.

Alessandra

People going hungry and basic medical needs being ignored is a clear deprivation of human rights. Disgusting. So uncomfortable to watch.
What can be done?

Biggins

I have my own problems with the health system in relation to my daughter who has a permanent disablement (which I won't bore ye about but a lot here know of) and I also have a brother that is physically and mentally disabled. In both cases the medial care in either case leaves a serious lot to be desired. My parents whom are in the 80 area and carers for them to take care of their son at their age, is a joke.

Do they qualify for medical card given their age and neither working? No.
And they are NOT well off either by any means - and they have in their time previously, been working all their lives and paying into the state in a lot of normal ways.

Its madness - thank you Fianna Fail and fcuk the lot of ye in your political party!

bad2dabone

was so sad this evening, heartbroken.
This is no country to get sick in. It is however a country that will cover your investment losses at the expense of its weakest members.

Shame on any politician who can watch that episode and justify the disgusting waste that goes on and continues to go on in our national finances. 2.5 million on a f*cking garden!

smurgen

i would be happier if 1 single chronically ill persons living standards were improved rather than spent on that stupid hanging garden.we have our priorities in knots. the rich have their ego's massaged and there interests invested in while the poor are ignored.

Biggins

bad2dabone wrote: »

...2.5 million on a f*cking garden!

Just before FF/Greens left, it was 10 million 'found' to spend on a small bike track in Dublin when three weeks before they rejected in the Dail, to supply emergency funds (9 million needed) to keep open wards and theaters in Crumlins Childrens hospital!

I shake me head still nearly every day in disbelief, for I still get to hear of this type of on going craziness and priorities stupidly fcuked up! Its really is insane.

That 2.5 million could have been given to a hospital in the same local area for treatments and shortening a long waiting list in any number of medical areas!

OPENROAD

themadchef wrote: »

Not only do they have to put up with the pain of watching a loved one suffer they have the indignity of having to beg for assistance from our state.

Shame on our government, and shame on us for not forcing the issue, all of us.

And the thousands of pounds that carers save the state per year and it is a HUGE amount

Ectoplasm

I have to be honest, I'm glad I missed this one. My Dad had motor neuron and the fight that we had to get ANY kind of support for him was insane...and he was a reasonably well off man.

I think that the people who make the decisions simply have no idea of the cost to carers - and I'm not even talking about money. For the last six months of my Dad's life, all he could do was talk and move his head. What that meant, in practical terms was that he could never be left alone. Ever. Between my brothers and me and private nursing, we worked out schedules, but all of us have jobs and mortgages, my brothers have kids. None of us was in a position to become a full time carer and to be fair, my Dad really didn't want that to happen - he was a proud man and it hurt him to have to constantly ask for assistance for the most basic of tasks and there were some things he hated having his kids doing. Trying to get assistance was impossibly difficult.

We had to BATTLE to get a medical card to cover his prescriptions, which were numbering into about a dozen towards the end - things to help with pain, to help him breath. The Motor Neuron Society and the Hospice were fantastic. The HSE were a bunch of cúnts. Without the MNS and the Hospice, my Dad, a relatively well off man would both have a) gone broke and b) suffered far worse in his final days - and they were no picnic even with help.

It was shocking to me - a real eye opener of the most unpleasant sort. The health service is happy to turn a blind eye though - and I don't see it changing any time soon. :mad:

sollar

smurgen wrote: »

i would be happier if 1 single chronically ill persons living standards were improved rather than spent on that stupid hanging garden.we have our priorities in knots. the rich have their ego's massaged and there interests invested in while the poor are ignored.

There will prob be a few token words from a politician now after this show. And a number of the people featured will be given medical cards and services etc. But it will all be swept back under the carpet again then.

sollar

EMF2010 wrote: »

I have to be honest, I'm glad I missed this one. My Dad had motor neuron and the fight that we had to get ANY kind of support for him was insane...and he was a reasonably well off man.

I think that the people who make the decisions simply have no idea of the cost to carers - and I'm not even talking about money. For the last six months of my Dad's life, all he could do was talk and move his head. What that meant, in practical terms was that he could never be left alone. Ever. Between my brothers and me and private nursing, we worked out schedules, but all of us have jobs and mortgages, my brothers have kids. None of us was in a position to become a full time carer and to be fair, my Dad really didn't want that to happen - he was a proud man and it hurt him to have to constantly ask for assistance for the most basic of tasks and there were some things he hated having his kids doing. Trying to get assistance was impossibly difficult.

We had to BATTLE to get a medical card to cover his prescriptions, which were numbering into about a dozen towards the end - things to help with pain, to help him breath. The Motor Neuron Society and the Hospice were fantastic. The HSE were a bunch of cúnts. Without the MNS and the Hospice, my Dad, a relatively well off man would both have a) gone broke and b) suffered far worse in his final days - and they were no picnic even with help.

It was shocking to me - a real eye opener of the most unpleasant sort. The health service is happy to turn a blind eye though - and I don't see it changing any time soon. :mad:

That is a really shocking post. It should be read aloud to Dr James Reilly. I can't imagine how frustrating and upsetting that would have been.

Biggins

sollar wrote: »

There will prob be a few token words from a politician now after this show. And a number of the people featured will be given medical cards and services etc. But it will all be swept back under the carpet again then.

Yep. Totally. :mad:

tayto lover

A new Government who has promised change and not one of them had the balls to go on the show. This Government is Fianna Fail Mk2 and could turn out to be even worse in their attempt to suck-up to their European masters. We badly need a peoples revolution in Ireland similar to what happened in other countries where the population were treated like second class citizens while the elite lived like kings.

Dudess

I hope there won't be too much of the fabled "we" stuff on this thread - maybe those of us who merely live here (and to be fair, enjoyed the conditions of the Celtic Tiger even if we lived within our means - thus resulting in complacency re the plight of more vulnerable members of society) but otherwise didn't vote Fianna Fáil and didn't behave OTT stupidly with money, have a tiny role to play but we are nowhere near as deserving of blame as others. Collective responsibility might seem really forward-thinking but it's only fair if it's apportioned correctly.

fatalll

sollar wrote: »

We were rich once apparently and the man at the helm who could have made a difference said his big regret was not building the Bertie bowl.

That is so damn right ...what you said. His regret eh....

I personally think we shoiuld give a lot less overseas, give it to our own sick instead
we are giving over 700million
and their populations in some african countries, whom some of their governments are corrupt, are growing at a very fast rate...

they are being educated etc about AIDS...it aint working so we should stop...and nobody will convice me otherwise.

I have seen programmes and dont get me wrong i do feel for some of those people..... but common sense has to come into it.

Ectoplasm

sollar wrote: »

That is a really shocking post. It should be read aloud to Dr James Reilly. I can't imagine how frustrating and upsetting that would have been.

Honestly, the worst part was knowing that we were, in a way, one of the luckier families. Between us all, we could afford to get some private nursing care and given that there are quite a few of us we were able to 'share the load' to an extent.

I just cannot imagine what it would have been like otherwise. The doctors and nurses we dealt with were fantastic, but the beuracracy was horrific. I remember days of phone calls and actually crying in sheer rage and frustration at the hoops you had to jump through...there was one particular incident where the HSE refused something because my Dad hadn't signed something himself - he had motor neuron FFS, he couldn't physically sign!!!

It wasn't until a hospice nurse stepped in that things got any better. They and the MNS and other societies like that are picking up the slack for the health service. While they provide a fantastic service, I do think that the HSE to an extent knows this and relies on it, which shouldn't be the case.

bad2dabone

I think charity begins at home. We shouldn't be borrowing hundreds of millions a year for foreign aid while cutting services here in Ireland imo.

cosanostra

I think its actually gone past a political argument at this stage we as a nation have failed to stand up for our rights our government are only puppets of the imf/eu!

We need to stand up and protest and demand that the people of this country are put first!

bleg

Even without the bailout we still couldn't afford proper services. We are 18billion in the red every year. Even after the term of the loan we will.have to seek finance on the bond market. The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.


Edit: not trying to have a dig at anybody. Just saying that the money has to come from somewhere. If it is spent on wages in one department it can't be spent on providing care in another. The money is not there. Things are going to get worse before they get better, if they do get better at all.

Biggins

bleg wrote: »

...The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.

Wow, such a wide staining statement!
I've been complaining and I've (like many, many) been taking cuts left, right and center in equally many ways!
I think your tail end of your posting is a little off to be honest.

cosanostra

bleg wrote: »

Even without the bailout we still couldn't afford proper services. We are 18billion in the red every year. Even after the term of the loan we will.have to seek finance on the bond market. The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.

At the minute we are cutting services to try and repay something in excess of 100billion for private debts i don't think 18billion would have the same affect to services tbh

bleg

cosanostra wrote: »

At the minute we are cutting services to try and repay something in excess of 100billion for private debts i don't think 18billion would have the same affect to services tbh

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

Biggins

bleg wrote: »

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

Next we will hear from them is that the IMF suits is not in the country ...(again!)...

fat__tony

Whenever I get misty-eyed and consider returning to Ireland in the future, Ill just take a look at the shambles of a health service and Ill strongly reconsider.

Ireland is a very unpleasant place to be if you're old or ill or both.

bleg

Biggins wrote: »

Wow, such a wide staining statement!
I've been complaining and I've (like many, many) been taking cuts left, right and center in equally many ways!
I think your tail end of your posting is a little off to be honest.

Point taken, I phrased it badly. I suppose what I mean to ask is where do people think the money is going to come from. We (as in society, not carers) want high wages, low taxes and everything for free. It doesn't work that way.

sollar

bleg wrote: »

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

We could get into an arguement all day about where money should be saved from. The fact is sick people should be the top of the list.

Money should be spent on sick people first... then we can all haggle about where the rest of the money goes. I'll argue my corner thereafter. It shouldn't an either or.