What sort of country are we?

Biggins · 30-05-2011 11:26PM

bad2dabone wrote: »

...2.5 million on a f*cking garden!

Just before FF/Greens left, it was 10 million 'found' to spend on a small bike track in Dublin when three weeks before they rejected in the Dail, to supply emergency funds (9 million needed) to keep open wards and theaters in Crumlins Childrens hospital!

I shake me head still nearly every day in disbelief, for I still get to hear of this type of on going craziness and priorities stupidly fcuked up! Its really is insane.

That 2.5 million could have been given to a hospital in the same local area for treatments and shortening a long waiting list in any number of medical areas!

OPENROAD · 30-05-2011 11:27PM

themadchef wrote: »

Not only do they have to put up with the pain of watching a loved one suffer they have the indignity of having to beg for assistance from our state.

Shame on our government, and shame on us for not forcing the issue, all of us.

And the thousands of pounds that carers save the state per year and it is a HUGE amount

Ectoplasm · 30-05-2011 11:32PM

I have to be honest, I'm glad I missed this one. My Dad had motor neuron and the fight that we had to get ANY kind of support for him was insane...and he was a reasonably well off man.

I think that the people who make the decisions simply have no idea of the cost to carers - and I'm not even talking about money. For the last six months of my Dad's life, all he could do was talk and move his head. What that meant, in practical terms was that he could never be left alone. Ever. Between my brothers and me and private nursing, we worked out schedules, but all of us have jobs and mortgages, my brothers have kids. None of us was in a position to become a full time carer and to be fair, my Dad really didn't want that to happen - he was a proud man and it hurt him to have to constantly ask for assistance for the most basic of tasks and there were some things he hated having his kids doing. Trying to get assistance was impossibly difficult.

We had to BATTLE to get a medical card to cover his prescriptions, which were numbering into about a dozen towards the end - things to help with pain, to help him breath. The Motor Neuron Society and the Hospice were fantastic. The HSE were a bunch of cúnts. Without the MNS and the Hospice, my Dad, a relatively well off man would both have a) gone broke and b) suffered far worse in his final days - and they were no picnic even with help.

It was shocking to me - a real eye opener of the most unpleasant sort. The health service is happy to turn a blind eye though - and I don't see it changing any time soon. :mad:

sollar · 30-05-2011 11:34PM

smurgen wrote: »

i would be happier if 1 single chronically ill persons living standards were improved rather than spent on that stupid hanging garden.we have our priorities in knots. the rich have their ego's massaged and there interests invested in while the poor are ignored.

There will prob be a few token words from a politician now after this show. And a number of the people featured will be given medical cards and services etc. But it will all be swept back under the carpet again then.

sollar · 30-05-2011 11:40PM

EMF2010 wrote: »

I have to be honest, I'm glad I missed this one. My Dad had motor neuron and the fight that we had to get ANY kind of support for him was insane...and he was a reasonably well off man.

I think that the people who make the decisions simply have no idea of the cost to carers - and I'm not even talking about money. For the last six months of my Dad's life, all he could do was talk and move his head. What that meant, in practical terms was that he could never be left alone. Ever. Between my brothers and me and private nursing, we worked out schedules, but all of us have jobs and mortgages, my brothers have kids. None of us was in a position to become a full time carer and to be fair, my Dad really didn't want that to happen - he was a proud man and it hurt him to have to constantly ask for assistance for the most basic of tasks and there were some things he hated having his kids doing. Trying to get assistance was impossibly difficult.

We had to BATTLE to get a medical card to cover his prescriptions, which were numbering into about a dozen towards the end - things to help with pain, to help him breath. The Motor Neuron Society and the Hospice were fantastic. The HSE were a bunch of cúnts. Without the MNS and the Hospice, my Dad, a relatively well off man would both have a) gone broke and b) suffered far worse in his final days - and they were no picnic even with help.

It was shocking to me - a real eye opener of the most unpleasant sort. The health service is happy to turn a blind eye though - and I don't see it changing any time soon. :mad:

That is a really shocking post. It should be read aloud to Dr James Reilly. I can't imagine how frustrating and upsetting that would have been.

Biggins · 30-05-2011 11:40PM

sollar wrote: »

There will prob be a few token words from a politician now after this show. And a number of the people featured will be given medical cards and services etc. But it will all be swept back under the carpet again then.

Yep. Totally. :mad:

tayto lover · 30-05-2011 11:45PM

A new Government who has promised change and not one of them had the balls to go on the show. This Government is Fianna Fail Mk2 and could turn out to be even worse in their attempt to suck-up to their European masters. We badly need a peoples revolution in Ireland similar to what happened in other countries where the population were treated like second class citizens while the elite lived like kings.

Dudess · 30-05-2011 11:50PM

I hope there won't be too much of the fabled "we" stuff on this thread - maybe those of us who merely live here (and to be fair, enjoyed the conditions of the Celtic Tiger even if we lived within our means - thus resulting in complacency re the plight of more vulnerable members of society) but otherwise didn't vote Fianna Fáil and didn't behave OTT stupidly with money, have a tiny role to play but we are nowhere near as deserving of blame as others. Collective responsibility might seem really forward-thinking but it's only fair if it's apportioned correctly.

fatalll · 30-05-2011 11:58PM

sollar wrote: »

We were rich once apparently and the man at the helm who could have made a difference said his big regret was not building the Bertie bowl.

That is so damn right ...what you said. His regret eh....

I personally think we shoiuld give a lot less overseas, give it to our own sick instead
we are giving over 700million
and their populations in some african countries, whom some of their governments are corrupt, are growing at a very fast rate...

they are being educated etc about AIDS...it aint working so we should stop...and nobody will convice me otherwise.

I have seen programmes and dont get me wrong i do feel for some of those people..... but common sense has to come into it.

Ectoplasm · 31-05-2011 12:07AM

sollar wrote: »

That is a really shocking post. It should be read aloud to Dr James Reilly. I can't imagine how frustrating and upsetting that would have been.

Honestly, the worst part was knowing that we were, in a way, one of the luckier families. Between us all, we could afford to get some private nursing care and given that there are quite a few of us we were able to 'share the load' to an extent.

I just cannot imagine what it would have been like otherwise. The doctors and nurses we dealt with were fantastic, but the beuracracy was horrific. I remember days of phone calls and actually crying in sheer rage and frustration at the hoops you had to jump through...there was one particular incident where the HSE refused something because my Dad hadn't signed something himself - he had motor neuron FFS, he couldn't physically sign!!!

It wasn't until a hospice nurse stepped in that things got any better. They and the MNS and other societies like that are picking up the slack for the health service. While they provide a fantastic service, I do think that the HSE to an extent knows this and relies on it, which shouldn't be the case.

bad2dabone · 31-05-2011 12:08AM

I think charity begins at home. We shouldn't be borrowing hundreds of millions a year for foreign aid while cutting services here in Ireland imo.

cosanostra · 31-05-2011 12:09AM

I think its actually gone past a political argument at this stage we as a nation have failed to stand up for our rights our government are only puppets of the imf/eu!

We need to stand up and protest and demand that the people of this country are put first!

bleg · 31-05-2011 12:10AM

Even without the bailout we still couldn't afford proper services. We are 18billion in the red every year. Even after the term of the loan we will.have to seek finance on the bond market. The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.

Edit: not trying to have a dig at anybody. Just saying that the money has to come from somewhere. If it is spent on wages in one department it can't be spent on providing care in another. The money is not there. Things are going to get worse before they get better, if they do get better at all.

Biggins · 31-05-2011 12:21AM

bleg wrote: »

...The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.

Wow, such a wide staining statement!
I've been complaining and I've (like many, many) been taking cuts left, right and center in equally many ways!
I think your tail end of your posting is a little off to be honest.

cosanostra · 31-05-2011 12:21AM

bleg wrote: »

Even without the bailout we still couldn't afford proper services. We are 18billion in the red every year. Even after the term of the loan we will.have to seek finance on the bond market. The people complaining about the state of the services for these patients are the same people that won't take further paycuts.

At the minute we are cutting services to try and repay something in excess of 100billion for private debts i don't think 18billion would have the same affect to services tbh

bleg · 31-05-2011 12:27AM

cosanostra wrote: »

At the minute we are cutting services to try and repay something in excess of 100billion for private debts i don't think 18billion would have the same affect to services tbh

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

Biggins · 31-05-2011 12:33AM

bleg wrote: »

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

Next we will hear from them is that the IMF suits is not in the country ...(again!)...

fat__tony · 31-05-2011 12:36AM

Whenever I get misty-eyed and consider returning to Ireland in the future, Ill just take a look at the shambles of a health service and Ill strongly reconsider.

Ireland is a very unpleasant place to be if you're old or ill or both.

bleg · 31-05-2011 12:38AM

Biggins wrote: »

Wow, such a wide staining statement!
I've been complaining and I've (like many, many) been taking cuts left, right and center in equally many ways!
I think your tail end of your posting is a little off to be honest.

Point taken, I phrased it badly. I suppose what I mean to ask is where do people think the money is going to come from. We (as in society, not carers) want high wages, low taxes and everything for free. It doesn't work that way.

sollar · 31-05-2011 12:38AM

bleg wrote: »

Nah, we are cutting at the moment to get our house in order. The repayments on the loans won't help but they're not the primary problem. The primary problem is the massive black hole in the public finances.

It's also not being helped by the fact that this government is in as much denial as the last. Noonan said today that Ireland won't need a second bail out when it's fairly likely that we will.

We could get into an arguement all day about where money should be saved from. The fact is sick people should be the top of the list.

Money should be spent on sick people first... then we can all haggle about where the rest of the money goes. I'll argue my corner thereafter. It shouldn't an either or.

RMD · 31-05-2011 12:40AM

If we got 4-5 off the most pissed off yet intelligent AH posters to run in the next GE, we could actually have a very good and tuned in set of TDs.

I hate politics and all of those involved in it because they're generally a bunch of lying and ass-kissing cúnts in it for the publicity. Reading articles similar to this and seeing the programs wants to make me run, just so I can do what is actually expected of a TD. Be a vocal and controversial prick just so things might actually get done for one. Fúck this 2.5 million Gardan and the 10s of millions being paid in bankers bonuses, invest every last cent of it into the healthcare and create a system that the taxpayers can be proud of. A fúcking disgrace is a compliment to the Irish healthcare system but also to the TDs doing nothing to improve it.

Biggins · 31-05-2011 12:45AM

sollar wrote: »

We could get into an arguement all day about where money should be saved from. The fact is sick people should be the top of the list.

Money should be spent on sick people first... then we can all haggle about where the rest of the money goes. I'll argue my corner thereafter. It shouldn't an either or.

I can't remember when or where but there was an opinion (which remember reading) some time back from some high level European accountant that contended that if we actually managed to get a lot more of our sick better more quicker, with them returning back to work sooner - their then subsequent ability to earn a wage, spend it etc besides producing the actual goods they are being hired to make, would help get the country back on its feet more quicker than having them lie about on beds or at home on a waiting list!

It was a point that could be further debated but it is one aspect that should be thrown into the debate to if we (our government) are doing the right thing currently and/or if we have our priorities right?

Biggins · 31-05-2011 12:51AM

bleg wrote: »

Point taken, I phrased it badly. I suppose what I mean to ask is where do people think the money is going to come from. We (as in society, not carers) want high wages, low taxes and everything for free. It doesn't work that way.

I suppose its natural for all to want the most they can get - and you do have a point indeed.
Add to that though as you will probably agree (I know a UN Human Rights expert does: http://lnw.me/JrNB6P) that you can only get so much out of someone and that the poorest of this country is being by far, the hardest hit consistently by the Irish government, to get the money to keep the state alive.

pragmatic1 · 31-05-2011 12:58AM

bleg wrote: »

Point taken, I phrased it badly. I suppose what I mean to ask is where do people think the money is going to come from. We (as in society, not carers) want high wages, low taxes and everything for free. It doesn't work that way.

Everything is so expensive in this country that you need a fairly high wage to keep your head above water. The cost of living is ridiculous.

Biggins · 31-05-2011 01:01AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Everything is so expensive in this country that you need a fairly high wage to keep your head above water. The cost of living is ridiculous.

Don't know the numbers but highest or second highest gas prices in Europe, most expensive electricity too (or in second place also) in Europe, highest phone charges in Europe, etc, etc... Its just crazy.

autonomy · 31-05-2011 01:06AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Most of our elected officials dont have the balls to stand up for their people. The people who do have the balls are called "looney lefties". Fighting Irish indeed.

right on the mark, and credit must go to the people who voted for these politicians in the constituencies they were in! Just a pity there is not more like them

pragmatic1 · 31-05-2011 01:06AM

Biggins wrote: »

Don't know the numbers but highest or second highest gas prices in Europe, most expensive electricity too (or in second place also) in Europe, highest phone charges in Europe, etc, etc... Its just crazy.

Theres loads of goods manufactured here that are sold cheaper in the north too.

Biggins · 31-05-2011 01:09AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Theres loads of goods manufactured here that are sold cheaper in the north too.

Indeed, I agree (but to be fair to the OP and the theme of the thread, I won't sidetrack the thread further than I already might have).

Son Of A Vidic · 31-05-2011 02:36AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Most of our elected officials dont have the balls to stand up for their people. The people who do have the balls are called "looney lefties". Fighting Irish indeed.

Indeed, looney lefties - a term usually bandied about by meek sheep. Having a conscience and a desire for justice & equality, is not solely the preserve of Lefties, nor should it be.

Klair88 · 31-05-2011 03:24AM

Lads, we're gonna have to rise up and overthrow them, organize a boards group in the July 16th protest, i know a few going. We're going to have to revolt.. for our future and our children's future.. we cant leave it in their hands.

What sort of country are we?

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