Wicklow 200 2011

Chips Lovell

Isn't there a traffic sign warning of that bridge at the bottom of the Sally Gap???

ROK ON

el tonto wrote: »

Isn't there a traffic sign warning of that bridge at the bottom of the Sally Gap???

Thereare two yellow hazard signs warning dangerous bends and single lane bridge.
There also was a WW200 sign saying brake now.

If you were sensible yday there was no reason (other than cold) not to enjoy the descents.

Pity about the accidents but I wouldn't blame the organisation for that.

kenmc

smacl wrote: »

Bunch of photos up on facebook here. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.215784058444537.54931.100000388330434

Someone took a few up the side of the road at Sally gap as well, but no idea who.

Seamus?

mloc123

Anyone have a Garmin link for yesterdays w100?

Edit: Nevermind, found this

stas

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Top 5 real W200 times, though the first looks suspiciously fast
2089 MONS SAMUELSSON 06:29:46 11:04:21 04:34:35 200
2208 NIALL STEPHENS 07:48:33 13:43:49 05:55:16 200
2023 JIM TUOHY 09:25:06 15:26:01 06:00:55 200
426 MICHAEL STONE 08:40:01 15:04:05 06:24:04 200
763 DAVE GARRETT 07:49:45 14:20:07 06:30:22 200

No way. Must have taken the wrong turn at Roundwood.

11:42 for me, so quite near the bottom of the list, but feck it - still proud of meself.

Kav0777

smacl wrote: »

11:28:14 here, do I win the boardsie wooden spoon?

Nope....that may go to me.. 11:38:30. Although I had a 9:54 rolling time.... All that faffing around my wife accuses me of must be true!

SACH Central

Firstly I'd like to give a big shoutout to @lafors who supplied me with his entry (No. 7) at very short notice - Thanks a million, although I did curse you on more than a few occasions.

I went up the night befor with two friends. We stayed in a campervan in the carpark, which was handy. I did the 200 yesterday, it was my first time. Did it in 7:49:05 (ride time). Found it hard going with the weather - savage wind on SG and of course the rain! I found the hardest part was the road 'home' from Avoca. I think it was the fact that we had all the climbing (supposedly) out of the way after the SE. After the long gradual downhill from the tea stop in Rathdrum I thought I was going great. The long drag out of Avoca was hard as were all the small hills after. No punctures TG don't know how anyone could have changed a puncture in that cold. On the whole I enjoyed it.

SACH Central

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie_Monster
Top 5 real W200 times, though the first looks suspiciously fast
2089 MONS SAMUELSSON 06:29:46 11:04:21 04:34:35 200
2208 NIALL STEPHENS 07:48:33 13:43:49 05:55:16 200
2023 JIM TUOHY 09:25:06 15:26:01 06:00:55 200
426 MICHAEL STONE 08:40:01 15:04:05 06:24:04 200
763 DAVE GARRETT 07:49:45 14:20:07 06:30:22 200

No way. Must have taken the wrong turn at Roundwood.

11:42 for me, so quite near the bottom of the list, but feck it - still proud of meself.

You'd have to wonder about the accuracy of those times posted. I came back, had a shower and a bite to eat - leftover porridge from that morning (supprisingly nice!) and only then went to 'clock out'

HivemindXX

Here's some analysis of the times...

999 entrants completed the 200 and 937 did the 100. That's 52% on the 200 and 48% on the 100. Last years split was around 70/30 to the 200 so it looks like the weather might have had a bit of an effect on that.
The ID numbers go up to 2530 so it looks like 30% of people dropped out altogether. Last year it was around 15-20%* which I think shows the weather had an effect putting people off but not as big as I would have thought.

Here's the average and median finish times for each route. I discarded some clearly bogus data like those people with times of less than a few minutes but left in the incredible but barely possible times like 2 hours of the 100k. There are some very long times that might be wrong as well but I don't have a good way to determine if someone forget to check out until after their shower and food stop. Consider times like that to be the margin of error.
100k, average time 5:36, median time 5:27
200k, average time 10:23, median time 10:23

* The reason this is vague is that there was a lot of people who didn't hit the checkpoints, but quite a lot of them probably did the route but didn't get their card swiped.

neris

have to agree that the climb out of avoca was a tough one. Lot of unpleasentries coming out of me the whole way up that climb. After sm & se that was the last thing that was needed

locha

Quick question for the experienced cyclists - did your rain gear stand up to yesterday?
If so what is the brand that you use? Mine didnt and I managed to water damage my phone... Cheers

Inquitus

HivemindXX wrote: »

Here's some analysis of the times...

999 entrants completed the 200 and 937 did the 100. That's 52% on the 200 and 48% on the 100. Last years split was around 70/30 to the 200 so it looks like the weather might have had a bit of an effect on that.
The ID numbers go up to 2530 so it looks like 30% of people dropped out altogether. Last year it was around 15-20%* which I think shows the weather had an effect putting people off but not as big as I would have thought.

Here's the average and median finish times for each route. I discarded some clearly bogus data like those people with times of less than a few minutes but left in the incredible but barely possible times like 2 hours of the 100k. There are some very long times that might be wrong as well but I don't have a good way to determine if someone forget to check out until after their shower and food stop. Consider times like that to be the margin of error.
100k, average time 5:36, median time 5:27
200k, average time 10:23, median time 10:23

* The reason this is vague is that there was a lot of people who didn't hit the checkpoints, but quite a lot of them probably did the route but didn't get their card swiped.

That compares to 9hrs57mins for Avg and Median from 2010, so a 26min weather impact, or about 4% slower.

Inquitus

locha wrote: »

Quick question for the experienced cyclists - did your rain gear stand up to yesterday?
If so what is the brand that you use? Mine didnt and I managed to water damage my phone... Cheers

I wrapped my phone in a plastic bag thankfully, I ended up soaked through, I would be surprised if anyone didn't.

smacl

Plastic bag for phone here too. DHB rain gear, normally pretty good, but yesterday got the better of it. And the overshoes and sealskinz socks. And the gloves...

manwithaplan

8:56 was my chip time but much time was spent on the side of the road in the company of tubes and tyre levers.

manwithaplan

Didn't bother with rain gear. Would have sweated very badly under it and the rain was too heavy for it to be effective. I had no problem with being wet as long as I kept the pace well up. Was a bit shivery at the Donard stop but otherwise OK. Phone, money etc were well wrapped up. I had pro tarmac neoprene overshoes which performed brilliantly until the floods of the Slieve Mann descent sent bucketloads of water into them from below.

seamus

I've slept a good bit. Fairly sore.

Had planned on setting out at 7. Arrived at Greystones at 7.10. Bike off the rack, flat tyre on the back. You're fncking kidding me. Bad omen or good omen, I didn't know. Luckily the guy parked beside me had a track pump, so after some faffing about replacing the tube and repairing the punctured one, finally managed to get checked in and set off around 7:50.

Almost made the right choice in clothing. Went with 3/4 length winter tights and half-finger gloves with liners underneath. The liners were just for the cold of the morning, but they stayed on all day. My shoes were still soaked even with overshoes on, but the cold was mostly kept out.

When we got to the 100/200 split there were about 20 people in front of me, it was just spitting rain but it wasn't warm. I had this image of seeing everyone else peel off left while me, the idiot, heads off for the 200. Thankfully about 6 out of the 20 headed off for Enniskerry and I joined in behind them.

We weren't bulling along, a little too slow in fact, but I had no desire to push it hard early on. "If the weather stays like this, sure it'll be grand" one of the lads says. Ha! A group of Orwell lads burn by us heading up old long hill, but we catch them again as the gradient gets tougher. Just as we get up the Glencree climb to Sally Gap, the rain sets it. Get to the Kippure car park and visibility is down to about 50m, the wind is lashing from the left and it's raining. Jaysus it's cold.

Descending down to Kilbride, I had no confidence cos I got speed wobbles there the last time I came down. Civil defence guys were warning people about the bridge, that there'd been an accident. But I was cruising it anyway. As we head on down towards Kilbride, two ambulances pass us by, heading back towards the bridge. Hope no-one was badly hurt. By this stage, I'm freezing. My hands barely work, and I can feel the cold creeping into my upper body. The group I'm with are going way too easy, spinning and then freewheeling. My HR drops below 130, I need to burn these guys and get it back up. The Orwell guys reappear, overtake and then slow down, making a big slow group out of the lot of us. I've no hope of overtaking on these windy roads.

As we pass the 40k marker I feel quite miserable. I know that if I'm still this cold by the time we get to Donard, I'm going to have to drop out. Should have bought a rain jacket after all. We get to the Kilbride water stop and the Orwell guys suddenly decide they're going to the shop, blocking up the road. Thanks guys. But I'm past them now and glad to see the back of them. 10 minutes later, HR is up, I'm feeling "warm" again and my fingers are working. I ride onto Donard mostly solo.

Coffee & Egg/Onion sandwich in Donard was heaven. Can't say the queue was an issue. Took two minutes to get in and another minute to get a cup of coffee. Though we were all looking at our tickets asking, "WTF are these for?". Nobody was checking them.
The stop itself was a little "village of the damned", everyone weakened by the conditions. I saw a couple of mostly older people properly shivering and shaking uncontrollably. I hope for their sakes they dropped out. They didn't look good. Had a quick chat with Dave (needmoregears?) and drumbren, then went across the road to my parents to use their pristine facilities and steal their water. As we know, cycling is 100% psychological, no skill at all, so I thought that filling my bidons with Ballygowan would be preferable to getting it from a big green tank with "WATER" painted on the side.

I headed off towards Aghavannagh, 85km done, but feeling very strong and refreshed. It's really only spitting rain at this stage. About 10k out of Donard I hit a bump in the road and something clatters off my bike and I hear it bouncing down the road behind me. Disaster? Is it my phone? Or a bit of the bike? No, a bidon has dropped out. I go back and get it, to find it lying beside two brethern similarly lost overboard but never retrieved. Clearly a bidon black spot right there.

As I get back up to speed, a guy on a black PX passes by, shouting "BOARDSIE", with a mate with a luminous orange jacket. I spent the next 10k chasing the orange jacket constantly in the distance, but never getting closer. But it kept me focussed.
10 minutes outside Rathdanagan, a guy asks, "Are we near the top yet?"
"Of what?"
"Slieve Mann"
"We haven't even started yet"
"Oh bollox"

I hit Slieve Mann. I know it sucks, but it gets easier as we go up, right? It didn't for some reason. The higher we got, the more rain fell, the more wind lashed across, the more miserable. I'm being passed by guys who look like they're cruising up effortlessly. Granted, they obviously weigh 15kg less than me, but it's still demoralising. I need to lose more weight
The top of Slieve Mann was horrific. Properly pissing rain, zero visibility. There's a powerbar station there. Good bars, but the drink is ****e. Glad I just got a cup of it rather than fill my bidon like some did. Everyone looks like ****.

The descent on SM is one of the least pleasurable experiences I've had on a bike. I had my sunglasses on to block the rain, but they just make it impossible to see. I get sitting behind a car, who's sitting behind a group of riders. It helps, it keeps my pace down. A guy burns by me, and the car, and the group of riders. Insanity, there's going to be a serious accident.
Sure enough, 1k later we round a corner and there are a group of riders there waiting on an ambulance, guy lying on the ground with blood pouring out of his head, awake and covered in jackets, but no doubt in a bad place.

Then Shay Elliott and the same experience again. The markers didn't help. The 3km marker is the closest I've come to stopping and taking a break. 2km, OMFG I have nothing left to give. 1km, I can do this. There's beeping in the distance, but it's getting closer. I can do this. daragh_ promises me that I'll have an audience at the top. Great "410FTW", only a couple of hundred metres, I have to do this.
The descent on SE was once again unpleasant. I'm freezing again. We hit the main road and turn right towards Rathdrum. There's a sign for Rathdrum - 10k. 10k to coffee. Let's go.

Nice spin to Rathdrum, but my brain and body are starting to give up. My brain doesn't understand how to work the gears, shifting down instead of up and vice-versa. My legs are powering along the flat, but at the first hint of a hill, I'm dropped to the lowest gear and whimpering like a puppy. It's now absolutely lashing rain, easily the heaviest downpour of the day. I get to Rathdrum, looking forward to coffee and another awesome sandwich but there's no veggie sandwiches there. Boo. So I don't hang around long, quick chat with jimm and back on the road. Three dole children are standing outside the pub having a smoke watching us climb out of Rathdrum in the pissing rain. "Are yis tapped or what, lads?". We must be.

I was warned about the climb out of Avoca, but it's nothing compared to what I'd already done. Just get the head down, keept going, got there with little problems in the end. Then the rain let up and the roads flattened out. Aside from a few little hills, it was flat/downhill all the way with a tailwind. It was almost enough to make us forget the horror of the previous 7 hours.

Despite my initial misfortune, the bike was solid all the way, not an issue. Found the signage and support excellent, there seemed to be vehicles and marshalls passing by every 10k or so between Greystones and Rathdrum. I'd agree though that there needed to be marshalls at SG, SM & SE warning people of the conditions. I knew the roads, but many wouldn't have.

Phil2me

ROK ON wrote: »

I think this event sucks in terms of foodstops and marshalling. (20m queue at Donard in freezing rain to have the card swipped.
Bollox.

To be fair the Liffey bridge on descent from Sally gap was marshalled and there was a sign sayin Brake Now.

That said there was about ten people around the ambulance when I passed.
2 guys in slings.
1 guy in an insulation wrap.
I saw no marshals on descent from Aghavanngh or Slieve Maan, however they were on SM descent.

It's poor value for money but I won't hold that against IVCA as I have done this before and knew the score.
I was very annoyed at the queue. There is no need to swipe people. There Arent that many freeloaders out there ffs.

Some crazy driving by locals I presume between Donard and SM.
Almost clipped by some prat in a stationwagon whilst climbing SM.

Agreed food stop in Donard was a joke, 20/25min queue foe a poxy sandwich and a cup of tea, no where to sit & no one cleaning up.And what was the raffle ticket all about.No room for all the bike either , had to leave mine on the ground.
Did Carrick spin prvious week, albeit smaller numbers but superbly carried ran.

Cookie_Monster

HivemindXX wrote: »

Here's the average and median finish times for each route.
200k, average time 10:23, median time 10:23

Sweet, better than average first time out


Also my legs are covered in bites/stings, though who knows what insects were out in that yesterday?

Phil2me

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

9h 4mins on GPS, not including stops. Dunno what official time was...
Don't care about the time though on a day like that, finishing the 200 (195.1:p) was the achievement in itself, first organised event I've ever done too.

What a ****ing miserable day, but got through it, without waterproofs too :eek:

Had a change of kit in Rathdrum though and about 30 mins sitting in a car getting heated up. Wouldn't have gone on without that!

Only saw one boardsie at the start,none throughout, though I was on the road at 6.30.

Had the boards jersey on for 2/3rd of it, then changed. Decent of the two back to back climbs were deadly dangerous with that weather.

I haven't felt that miserable in years, but got to the end so totally worth it! :D:D

Edit: as an organised event I was disappointed, marshalling and road markings were crap, guy at Liffey bridge should have been much further up the road (as was proven with the accidents). No queue with swipes cos I set off early but still a stupid system, why can't they have chips the register like the mini marathon?

Well did you take on my advice to reach 200k ie Kippure LOL...

g0g

Some photos from start on website now!

Cookie_Monster

Phil2me wrote: »

Well did you take on my advice to reach 200k ie Kippure LOL...

no, not with the wee bit of rain up there :pac:

DirkVoodoo

First photo there:

happytramp

g0g wrote: »

Some photos from start on website now!

God love them!, They're all still smiling.

Inquitus

happytramp wrote: »

God love them!, Their all still smiling.

Aye, can't wait to see photos from the end

Beasty

seamus wrote: »

I've slept a good bit. Fairly sore.....

Great report Seamus - it's reports like this that make it all worthwhile ....

....worthwhile sitting at home, watching TV with the kids while it's raining cats and dogs outside, waiting for the reports to come in ....:D

Zorba

First wicklow200 was a baptism of fire or water !

Day before i tried to change my 38 ring to a 34 but one of the bolts rung so thought sure it'll be grand i'm only doing the 100 i'll struggle through. Just before the 100 turnoff my mate is saying sure 100 is just like a sunday spin to us seems a bit of a waste not to do the 200 so off i went with my 38*25 and jesus did i pay for it on the Slieve Maan and Shay Elliot climbs, cadence was only around 40, talk about grinding gears, suppose it might pay off sometime in the future, power training type of thing !

Only seen one crash at the bottom of Sally Gap, at the time couldn't get a good look so wasn't sure if he stopped for a piss or if he crashed, hopefully he's ok.

Only wore knee warmers, two jerseys and gillet for the day and was frozen to the bone, lost the feeling in my left hand for the last 3 hrs so had use my fist to change between big ring and small ring, had to stop to get food and gels in.

Agree with others about the first stop was a joke, shivering in the rain for tea and sambo so i didn't stop at any of the other water or food stops, had enough of both with me, didn't actually drink much only 2 bottles think the rain kept me well hydrated. I went by the second stop and kept going thinking i was on the right road was wondering why some cyclist were looking at me funny so asked one am i going the right way, he said no so back to the food stop, seen some swords lads heading out and followed them to get on the right road.

Food at the end was very disappointing seen the size of the tray and thought yummy i'm gonna be nicely fed after that, but when i got the thing it wasn't even half full with food. One of the volunteers told me the pool viewing area was open and it's 32 degrees in there so had my food and tea in there. Showers were great though.

Despite the Shay Elliot climb killing me the pink 410 on the road and cheers at the top did make me smile.

During the event i constantly said feck this crap i'm never going out on the bike again nevermind doing 200k in the pissing rain, this morning though i'm thinking i might just sign up for another wicklow200 next yr

Completed the course in 8.33, reasonably happy with that considering the stupid gearing i had and the weather, do have to admit though cycling is THE best sport there is

Fair play to anyone that completed either the 100 or 200 in whatever time, it's a great achievement in them conditions.

daragh_

Unedited report - I suck at spelling and the like.

---

Was tough going.

Left home at 6 and cycled down to Greystones to meet the lads (Unionman and '68 Fastback).

The first 30mins or so were pleasant enough. The climb up to Powerscourt Mountain was a lot quieter than last year. I assume numbers were down on account of the weather forecast.

We all seemed to be motoring along and confident enough. As we climbed we agreed a few regrouping points and then split up naturally along the climb.

After Powerscourt Mountain the bad weather really kicked in. I had arm-warmers, base layer, Jersey and overshoes but my jacket was in my jersey. I should have stopped at that point and put the jacket on but I felt strong and wanted to keep going. I caught up with '68 Fastback at the crossroads and put it on then. Sweatbag over damp clothes - classic newbie error which I paid for later.

Unionman joined us a few minutes later and the two lads lashed off down to Manor Kilbride.

I've been very nervous on descents since the Mick Byrne so I sat on the brakes and went down very slowly after them.
My confidence wasn't helped by the ambulance attending to multiple crash victims at the bridge. Turns out ten guys had piled into each other there not long before. Ouch.

Caught the guys at Manor Kilbride and Unionman shot off like a rocket. We were doing something like a 40k average, which was nice but unsustainable given what was to come and the harsh conditions. I just sat back a bit then and we all slowed. Shortly after we watched '68 Fastback bridge over to a large group ahead of us.

We drifted slowly apart then. Unionman must have lost his stuff soon after as i couldn't see him behind me. We had arranged to regroup at the first foodstop so I carried on through the howling wind.

Picked up a bit of speed at Ballyknockan and found myself struggling to control the bike on a sharp right hand turn. Skidded right across the road and came off, landing on my right side. Road rash and harsh bang to my rib cage. Couple of guys helped me up and stayed while I checked the gears and brakes on my bike. I felt ok after a few minutes so decided to continue. Was convinced both of the lads were tucked into the sambos in Donard at this stage but was reluctant to put the hammer down because of the conditions (theme for the day).

Surge of adrenaline from the crash warmed me up and I made it to Donard in good time. Was feeling ok (maybe a little shaken if I'm honest) despite being soaked but stopping changed everything. Parked the bike, jumped into the line for food with '68 Fastback (sorry disgruntled roadie behind him!) and waited, and waited and waited. Core temperature dropped rapidly and by the time I got inside I could barely hold my tea I was shaking so much.

We grabbed chairs and tucked into the crappy W200 Sambos. The food really leaves a lot to be desired. The room was full of people in the advanced stages of Hypothermia with a scattering of smug looking roadies in full winter gear.

Unionman arrived in about 20 minutes looking very distressed. We had a chat about how he was feeling and he made the (wise) decision to abandon. I was very tempted to go with him but we had warmed up a bit by then so decided to press on to the climbs at least. I figured if I could make it that far I could peel off and go home by Roundwood.

I gave Unionman my phone and laser so he could get back to Greystones. I wasn't expecting him to jump in the car and head right back to Rathdrum, but he did. Fair play dude!

'68 Fastback and I made good time leaving Donard and we were passing lots of groups which was a bit of a bonus. Passed Seamus on the way - that was us shouting.

I had really hated that stretch before the climbs last year but it seemed a lot easier, despite the weather. Had to stop once to stretch as my back was acting up and then on to the hills.

'68 Fastback was looking strong and I managed to stay with him until the top of the first climb before Sliabh Mann. We had been warned about loose chippings on the descent so I took it very handy going down. As I turned to start onto the first steep bit of Sliabh Mann I could see '68 Fastback's orange jacket fading away into the fog in the distance and that was the last I saw of him.

Sliabh Mann was really hard on me this year. I got past the first really steep section and then I bonked. Had to stop and walk for a minute and regain some strength. This happened to me in the same spot last year! Hmm.

Back on the bike and on to the top where I grabbed a quick free gel and got off the hill as soon as I could as it was very exposed. Slow crawl down to Glenmalure - very nervous again. We were flagged down by a group of riders tending to someone who had crashed, looked pretty serious. I saw someone lying on the ground with what looked like a head injury. Hope they were ok.

The first two thirds of the Shay Elliott climb is reasonably sheltered and I felt good as I climbed. The last bit was into fog and was a bit of a struggle.
I could hear a crowd at the top cheering and beeping horns which was nice as it gave me something to focus on. Also wanted to check if the stencils had survived the week!

As I got to the top I could see the car whose horn was beeping. Turned out to be my wife and my three duaghters. They had been waiting for over an hour for me, cheering everyone who passed. It was really great to seem them and it gave me a huge lift. I have the best wife - it's official.

On top of that she had brought a bag of dry kit I had left in the house in case she made it down. Pretty soon I was wrapped up in my winter jersey, dry base layer, dry bib shorts and dry socks. It was like getting into a warm bath!

I was very tempted to abandon then and there but the dry kit made me feel a whole lot better. My wife volunteered to come and get me in Greystones and that made my mind up.

On and down to Clara Vale, nervous again on the descent but feeling a whole lot better.

On my own until Rathdrum where I met Unionman in his car, looking warm and snug in actual clothes. I had missed '68 Fastback by about 20 minutes so I decided to grab a quick coffee and see if i could make up some time on the last leg.

Rathdrum to Redcross was a lot easier this time around - but constant back pain was becoming a big issue. Heading down to the N11 I nearly cried when I realised how much extra climbing they had put in with the new diversion to Deputy's Pass. I'm sure none of ye noticed it but at one point I had to get off and walk up a hill I normally wouldn't even break a sweat on.

Soon after I jumped into a fast moving group (Emyvale CC I think - thanks!) which got me as far as Rathnew in good time. Sat back then and took two painkillers for my back and gritted my teeth for the last 20k. The road surface between there and Greystones is terrible and sent waves up pain rippling up my back.

Very few on the road and no groups to speak of (unlike last year when I did that bit in about 20 minutes as part of a bunch) so I crawled through Newcastle, Kilcoole and into Greystones where my lovely wife was waiting.

Home for a shower, food and then out to the airport to pick up my dad.

I registered at 6.45 but we didn't leave until around 7.15. I got into Greystones around 6, an hour later than last year. No idea how long I was rolling but I stopped a good bit more and spent longer at the foodstops. My official time is 11.18. If I take off time for stops, faffing about etc it's still nearly an hour slower than last year. Happy enough just to have finished TBH.

220k for the day.

No bloody medal though! it's coming in the post. Grrrr

Well done '68 Fastback for an awesome performance.

And massive respect to Unionman for being the only one of our group to display any kind of rational behaviour yesterday. Suffering is one thing, self-inflicted hardship is another. I love cycling but I don't want to actually die doing it.

g0g

No point in posting the lengthy entry twice, but have done up a full report on the day in my blog (Training Logs)! Dunno how to link the post sorry!

Cookie_Monster

g0g wrote: »

No point in posting the lengthy entry twice, but have done up a full report on the day in my blog (Training Logs)! Dunno how to link the post sorry!

here you go:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72736964&postcount=52