AL Cadet programme

kona

M.O.L. wrote: »

E-mail they sent also says "Aer Lingus have yet to make any decision on whether or not this
programme will be run again in the future."

Dont take too much from this, it seems they have yet to make many big decisions on the current recruitment, never mind next years.

nuggetclv

M.O.L. wrote: »

Just got an e-mail back from the service team today, after I outlined to AL the problem of entering your LC results for this years candidates (which won't receive them until the 17th of this month) .

They replied stating " Dear Robert, Unfortunately this year's leaving certificates will not be applicable for
the programme. "

Now I'm fully aware when Willie Walsh applied years ago, that he got it just after his LC. Same goes for an EI skipper I know that got in at the age of 19 back in the 80's.

I'd say they just won't accept 2011 candidates because they advertised it too early. Set the deadline for 14th of August, having known this years LC results will be released on the 17th.

E-mail they sent also says "Aer Lingus have yet to make any decision on whether or not this
programme will be run again in the future."

Looks like this will be the last cadetship until there is until economic recovery. Sucks knowing I can't even apply.

Same problem for me. I told them they had '2011' as an optioin for the year that you sat your LC. It shouldn't be there.

GKJK

nuggetclv wrote: »

Same problem for me. I told them they had '2011' as an optioin for the year that you sat your LC. It shouldn't be there.

While I really feel sorry for some of the lads who missed on LC ground and age I have to say though that it would be hard to swallow for a guy who has spent a few years working away toward his dream to have some guy cruise out of school and onto the cadetship. Could be a possible reason they excluded this years LC. They want people who have worked hard in whatever way toward the dream.

Also a question for some of the guys more in the know. Over what time period will interviews/assesments etc take place? They say they want to start late '11 early '12 so that would suggest they want it all wrapped up by this november or so. Bearing in mind some people may have jobs and cant just announce they're not coming in tomorrow...people would need a month or more to get affairs in order before heading off.

JPkelly

One of you's are fibbing:

M.O.L. wrote: »

Just got an e-mail back from the service team today, after I outlined to AL the problem of entering your LC results for this years candidates (which won't receive them until the 17th of this month) .

They replied stating " Dear Robert, Unfortunately this year's leaving certificates will not be applicable for
the programme. "

Now I'm fully aware when Willie Walsh applied years ago, that he got it just after his LC. Same goes for an EI skipper I know that got in at the age of 19 back in the 80's.

I'd say they just won't accept 2011 candidates because they advertised it too early. Set the deadline for 14th of August, having known this years LC results will be released on the 17th.

E-mail they sent also says "Aer Lingus have yet to make any decision on whether or not this
programme will be run again in the future."

Looks like this will be the last cadetship until there is until economic recovery. Sucks knowing I can't even apply.

xflyer wrote: »

Apply anyway, they allow for that on the form. If you are confident you will achieve the results say yes to meeting the requirements because by the time anyone processes the application it will be true.

Least of your worries.

No they're irrelevant as if they never happened!

One says to apply, one says not. Unlikely, but possible, that one is trying to lessen the competition.

JPkelly

Out of all their pilots why would they choose 2 who look about 18 years old for the video. One which clearly states he went for the cadet ship right after school and had no special qualifications?

Delta Kilo

Well, X flyer posted that post about a week ago, and MOL just posted that last night after he received the response.

xflyer is a pilot already, i highly doubt that he is applying for a cadetship!

Also, nuggetclv pointed out:

I told them they had '2011' as an optioin for the year that you sat your LC. It shouldn't be there.

Hope that answers your query and removes any doubt about competitiveness.

JPkelly

Yeeeah, but the fact that it was there at all. I don't like that he went and pointed that out to EI, thats not very nice for LC's, or in general. If it is the case, it's pretty odd that they used that video and didn't edit out what the male pilot said.

Delta Kilo

Like a lot of other things on this cadetship, AL seem to be figuring it out as they go... for instance they havent even agreed anything with a school yet!

Its just another way to matriculate the candidates, I dont think AL would be too worried about upsetting a 23 year old who worked hard to become a pilot yet missed out to a leaving cert, they will hire their pick, who they see to be the most suitable candidate. Sympathy wont come into it at all, its not the X Factor where those with a bad background or went through bad experiences seem to get all the camera action!

They probably just came up with that when they realised that every dog and his mother were going to apply for it.

Harsh, considering they took on LC before and suggested in the video that it would again be possible.

Either way, it is what it is.

xflyer

The fact is they put 2011 on the website and have an option for 'pending' in the results section. That in fact fits with previous competitions where it was allowed. In fact when I applied in the last century that was the norm.

The reply to MOL is puzzling. I'm not saying he's lying because frankly I don't think he is. But to be honest I suggest applying anyway. There is nothing in the application form to stop you. An email from some unknown person in EI is not a definitive answer. Sometimes opinion passes for policy. If they didn't want this year's LC graduates from applying. They should have said so officially.

The worst that can happen is that you'll receive a polite rejection.

MOL:

Looks like this will be the last cadetship until there is until economic recovery. Sucks knowing I can't even apply.

Same thing happened to me although I did get to apply and actually went for a psycho test. That was in my Leaving cert year. Didn't get through but there was always next year or so I thought. That was the last cadetship for years and years. Such is life.

At risk of being shouted at again, if you really want it. You will find a way though it takes you ten years or even twenty.

deltakilo:

xflyer is a pilot already, i highly doubt that he is applying for a cadetship!

Oh I dunno, there is no upper age limit and I would sail through the exams and flight tests. Hmm?:D

BostonB

GKJK wrote: »

... Could be a possible reason they excluded this years LC. They want people who have worked hard in whatever way toward the dream.....

The real world rarely works like that.

Hi 5

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Like a lot of other things on this cadetship, AL seem to be figuring it out as they go... for instance they havent even agreed anything with a school yet!

Its just another way to matriculate the candidates, I dont think AL would be too worried about upsetting a 23 year old who worked hard to become a pilot yet missed out to a leaving cert, they will hire their pick, who they see to be the most suitable candidate. Sympathy wont come into it at all, its not the X Factor where those with a bad background or went through bad experiences seem to get all the camera action!

They probably just came up with that when they realised that every dog and his mother were going to apply for it.

Harsh, considering they took on LC before and suggested in the video that it would again be possible.

Either way, it is what it is.

Jesus boards.ie do attract happy-go-lucky-people!?! :pac:

ahhh i dunno; i'll say nothing i think ~ sure Moderators are busy enough!!!!

GKJK

JPkelly wrote: »

Yeeeah, but the fact that it was there at all. I don't like that he went and pointed that out to EI, thats not very nice for LC's, or in general. If it is the case, it's pretty odd that they used that video and didn't edit out what the male pilot said.

It was the case then I suppose. I've heard idle talk before about FR/EI FOs who are under 20 and the general talk seemed to be "wise beyond his years" or "stuck up little toe-rag". EI are looking for older guys with ties in this country who are likely to stay, not a free and easy teen who may well "burn the bondholders" after 5 years. Anybody older than 20 who is still here clearly has ties here or the conviction to stay and tough it out and that is what they are looking for.

BostonB

If their HR is as bad at recruitment, as most HR depts are, I think it would be wise to keep and open mind to what they are looking for. They may be looking for one things, but change their mind when they see what quality of those applying.

directPEPOD

People shouldn't really speculate too far into these things. If anyone has any doubt that they might be rejecting during the process, they may as well apply in the event that they are eligible. Aer Lingus may not necessarily want people who are grounded to Ireland. Remember that Gatwick is still an EI base and is where most of the new recruits will probably go. Both LGW and Belfast are badly undercrewed at present which is probably the catalyst for this scheme.

I'll admit I was partially guilty for perhaps speculating too far with regard to the age bracket but Willie Walsh was 17(?) when he was taken as a cadet and that has paid dividends for the airline in recent years. I don't mean to sound like I'm full of hot air but be careful that you [GKJK] aren't just typing what you want to the situation to be - around 20 years old working hard toward becoming a pilot (PPL) etc. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are reassuring yourself and putting others off applying.

Aer Lingus will hire whoever they think is the best based on their merits and nothing else.

pepod

cuterob

directPEPOD wrote: »

I don't mean to sound like I'm full of hot air but be careful that you [GKJK] aren't just typing what you want to the situation to be - around 20 years old working hard toward becoming a pilot (PPL) etc. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are reassuring yourself and putting others off applying.

i've been getting that idea off him the whole way through too

GKJK

directPEPOD wrote: »

.....Aer Lingus may not necessarily want people who are grounded to Ireland. Remember that Gatwick is still an EI base and is where most of the new recruits will probably go. Both LGW and Belfast are badly undercrewed at present which is probably the catalyst for this scheme.

.....I don't mean to sound like I'm full of hot air but be careful that you [GKJK] aren't just typing what you want to the situation to be - around 20 years old working hard toward becoming a pilot (PPL) etc. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are reassuring yourself and putting others off applying.

Aer Lingus will hire whoever they think is the best based on their merits and nothing else.

pepod

EI have a problem with guys coming in on DE and it was a problem in the recent cadetships(90s). It is that they stay 5-8 years and then take big money jobs with BA or in the Far East. This leaves them with a fairly bottom heavy command structure and starts to present a problem at long haul. While many may be sent to Gatwick EI will want people who want to work their way back to Dublin or Shannon for Long Haul ops. If EI hire a guy they want him to be a captain some day and they want a return on their investment, not somebody who will bolt in the next Etihad or Emirates DE scheme. If you have ties here then you are more likely to stay that's all im saying.

On you second point I certainly do not want to sound like that or put people off, (to be honest if they were put off more fool them). However since EI started running cadetships they have looked for people who want to be pilots, not just trying their hand at it, and having a feather in your cap like a few hours or a licence shows that you took in on your own bat to do something about your desire. Yes I have a licence but I am not convincing myself of anything, I hold one of many qualities EI may see as favourable in a cadet. Any company in any field will look to hire people they think will serve the company well and for a long time. Ideally when EI interview these cadets they will be hoping this 19-30yo say is going to be a 40-50yo long haul skipper whi has served the company well.

GKJK

cuterob wrote: »

i've been getting that idea off him the whole way through too

Well if I put anybody off by posting opinions online they clearly dont deserve to apply....

The point I made before was that EI were unlikely to take guys straight out of school....and they didnt...

I dont want to be triumphant here or get into a debate, but I have devoted the last 2 years non stop to aviation and along the way you start to get an ideal of the hiring patterns in airlines...i am just offering opinions and if people want to make their own decisions on that then that's their choice....but certainly if by offering an opinions i put somebody off applying then well...i doubt they would have the conviction to make it anyhow

Hi 5

me-ow, me-ow; claw, claw.......

bladeruner

GKJK wrote: »

cuterob wrote: »

i've been getting that idea off him the whole way through too

Well if I put anybody off by posting opinions online they clearly dont deserve to apply....

The point I made before was that EI were unlikely to take guys straight out of school....and they didnt...

I dont want to be triumphant here or get into a debate, but I have devoted the last 2 years non stop to aviation and along the way you start to get an ideal of the hiring patterns in airlines...i am just offering opinions and if people want to make their own decisions on that then that's their choice....but certainly if by offering an opinions i put somebody off applying then well...i doubt they would have the conviction to make it anyhow

With the greatest respect GKJK , I think it's time you stopped posting on this topic.
You are doing more speculating then everyone else put together.
I am in this industry long enough but even I do not claim the insights you seem so convinced of.

Good luck with your application.

xflyer

Both LGW and Belfast are badly undercrewed at present which is probably the catalyst for this scheme.

Interesting comment directPEPOD. Clearly neither base is a popular option for Irish pilots. I wonder would this open the door a bit further for British based applicants?

New FOs will have to take they're given in terms of bases. Something Ryanair pilots have faced for some time.

Maybe GKJK's speculation is not so far off the mark. I suspect the standard of applicants will be quite high. In fact I know it will be. In the past I had the opportunity to handle CVs for an aviation related job. One stuck out, she had multiple qualifications, Engineering, Master's degree etc. She didn't get the job we had available. But I wasn't particularly surprised to later hear she got a cadetship. Slightly overqualified for a pilot job I thought. But a high flyer by whatever standard that applies.

Hi 5......................Isn't that a kids show?

directPEPOD

xflyer,

Without using the 's-word' (lol), it depends on what exactly EI want. You can hire Irish people and relocate them out where they maybe will pine for home

Or hire Brits and difficulty moving them back to Ireland if they are needed there!

In the last cadet class the majority were placed at LGW and BFS but people still left in droves for the sandpit on all ends of the experience spectrum - one of them is out on a contract in China where he's getting BIG bucks. Here in Belfast you'd be lucky if you found a crew from this part of the island. I'm not sure if they are bussed here, being paid extra for the relocation or are just low on the seniority ladder but that's the way it is.

P.S. This morning I was speaking to the pilot I referred to and on the last scheme there were a range of ages, degrees and some school leavers and some with some flying experience.

pepod

GKJK

bladeruner wrote: »

With the greatest respect GKJK , I think it's time you stopped posting on this topic.
You are doing more speculating then everyone else put together.
I am in this industry long enough but even I do not claim the insights you seem so convinced of.

Good luck with your application.

Well with the greatest of repect speculating I may be. But so far as the game has run my "speculations" have been more or less on the money.(besides being told it was being shelved until march). I am not formulating this information myself. I am being told the dynamic from within the beast itself. I could very well stay quiet and keep the info to myself but I chose to share it. If this information does not seem viable to people then by all means disregard it! But if you want to keep and open mind then keep it in mind.
People here are of the mind that you can walk into an airline interview and profess a love of aviation and dreams of being a pilot, however unless you have that will come across 10 times better with sufficent proof (ie reading, or flight experiance). I have heard that said by a number of current and former EI skippers, flight instructors and general people about the industry here. And I trust they know what they are saying. If you want to disagree with me that is your choice, but just because i disagree with you doesnt make me wrong.

This cadetship has been likened to the "child catcher" in chitty chitty bang bang(retired skipper). "They want to catch some hard working aviators in a net and bond them for 20 years...they'll be going nowhere then".

Hi 5

[QUOTE=xflyer;736433

Hi 5......................Isn't that a kids show?[/QUOTE] sure is....sometimes having a kids mentality helps on this site

WHY DO I KEEP COMING BACK??? oh i dunno.....

Genuinely wish everyone the best, young or old, LC or Phd's, PPL or not

BostonB

GKJK wrote: »

.... However since EI started running cadetships they have looked for people who want to be pilots, not just trying their hand at it, and having a feather in your cap like a few hours or a licence shows that you took in on your own bat to do something about your desire. ....

That not true of most of the EI pilots I know, most of whom came through the earlier cadetships. Almost none had any hours previously. Back then the more flying hours seemed to be a disadvantage. TBH maturity and high achievement in exams, seemed to be more important. Indeed it was rare that a club flyers, or club instructors that I knew got in. That was EI, not other airlines. Seemed like they didn't anyone with preformed ideas or habits.

That said that was then, could be entirely different now. I have no idea. Thats simply my opinion, and perspective. The reality may have been different.

yaeger

Its been said before, stop speculating on what you think they want !...
If eligible just apply and leave the selection to them.
Quite literally anything goes regards background experience etc etc.
The smart guys are already researching and getting prep work done on tech/apptitude type exams and any other test EI are likely to throw at you, also prep for interview technique and read up on all info you can find on company, aircraft, the role as pilot , how things work for an aircraft to go from A>B..

Expect stiff competition in ability and numbers, so good luck to all and WINNER WINNER gets a chicken dinner, No really you will or maybe beef and blackbean.

Perphaps people could start to use this post or start another with questions or discussion points that may appear in an interview for those lucky to get that far, little bit more constructive Id say.

Why you here ? What you expect ? what you think job entails ? How airplane flys ? How engine works Jet/prop/car ? How atc works ? What planes/routes EI have ? etc etc



:-)

directPEPOD

BostonB,

You raise a good point about academic achievement, I wonder what Aer Lingus see as good results in this day and age?

pepod

donkey balls

I'm curious as to why EI would hire cadets and train them from scratch I know that a few of the big boys in the sand pit and from memory QF use to hire guys from scratch(with the airline biz in decline these days I'm not sure wether they still do the cadet scheme).
I noticed another poster mentioned about DEC guys not cutting it in EI anyone any ideas why? Considering FR have taken on guys with different training back grounds mod/integrated even guys who were capts in the sand pit,What is the difference with EI compared to FR regarding recruitment.
I know of lads who have failed the interview&sim check with FR anyone any idea why EI wants to go down the cadet route surely if FR can get good aviators through their hiring process EI could do the same.
As for the hiring process with EI that's nothing compared to my aul crowd were you needed a min of 3000hrs jet time college degree and pass an FBI back ground check.

brotherrabbit

Did anyone who applied hear back yet?

GKJK

donkey balls wrote: »

I'm curious as to why EI would hire cadets and train them from scratch I know that a few of the big boys in the sand pit and from memory QF use to hire guys from scratch(with the airline biz in decline these days I'm not sure wether they still do the cadet scheme).
I noticed another poster mentioned about DEC guys not cutting it in EI anyone any ideas why? Considering FR have taken on guys with different training back grounds mod/integrated even guys who were capts in the sand pit,What is the difference with EI compared to FR regarding recruitment.
I know of lads who have failed the interview&sim check with FR anyone any idea why EI wants to go down the cadet route surely if FR can get good aviators through their hiring process EI could do the same.
As for the hiring process with EI that's nothing compared to my aul crowd were you needed a min of 3000hrs jet time college degree and pass an FBI back ground check.

EI want career guys and many of the DE guys they took before left after a couple of years. A cadetship bonds you for a fair while.

FR are more than happy to take you on after flight school and then have you leave a few years later..stops you rising up any pay scale and keeps the costs down.

In relation to pepods question I would imagine that school results may not be as big a thing as they were. They will want to see decent apptitude for maths and maybe physics and an overall decent standard. The Irish LC is in bad need of reform as it doesnt credit skill in a specific area and is designed to pressure students too much, it grades you overall and there are not many people who are fantasic all across the board. It is also very much open to "buying grades" through fee charging grind schools who know more than they should about what may appear on the state exams...

XWB

GKJK wrote: »

Well with the greatest of repect speculating I may be. But so far as the game has run my "speculations" have been more or less on the money.(besides being told it was being shelved until march). I am not formulating this information myself. I am being told the dynamic from within the beast itself. I could very well stay quiet and keep the info to myself but I chose to share it. If this information does not seem viable to people then by all means disregard it! But if you want to keep and open mind then keep it in mind.
People here are of the mind that you can walk into an airline interview and profess a love of aviation and dreams of being a pilot, however unless you have that will come across 10 times better with sufficent proof (ie reading, or flight experiance). I have heard that said by a number of current and former EI skippers, flight instructors and general people about the industry here. And I trust they know what they are saying. If you want to disagree with me that is your choice, but just because i disagree with you doesnt make me wrong.

This cadetship has been likened to the "child catcher" in chitty chitty bang bang(retired skipper). "They want to catch some hard working aviators in a net and bond them for 20 years...they'll be going nowhere then".

Retired Skipper here mate! :rolleyes: I've been hearing about this, thought I'd look round google and see what I could find

From what I have heard you would seem indeed to have spoken to some of the "old internals". I went in on a cadetship in the late 70s when men were men! A lot has changed.
I was speaking to one of my old juniors(a senior captain now) over a pint of plain down the old dog and duck on Sunday and he was telling me about this new scheme.(and the influx of little babies)
As a Skipper who was more or less asked to "kindly vacate the premises and take my wage with me" last year I can tell you that the Airline is in desperate need of pilots, but the direct entry crops are not cutting the mustard with brass and standards.

GKJK you have the right idea in what you say but I think to the other members you seem too assured of yourself. Your flying experiance in this instance will help you and I would imagine that EI will be interested in that given the current lack of pilots and you seem ambitious and that's what they want. If you have a PPL then I would imagine you have 50+ hours at this stage and that will serve you well at interview. It shows a real will to fly! And it will mean you should get through training without too much trouble. Just tone down the "talk", after all many of these young men may well be rooming with you if you get accepted!

I remember when it was just in the paper and you had to send in a hard copy, there was none of this talk, just sitting by the letter box every morning for months, was painful, but worth it!