Formula 1 2011: Round 5 - Spanish Grand Prix

Ghost Train

amacachi wrote: »

Why take Button in now when he's faster than Alonso and Webber while they're on the hards!?

EDIT: I really don't get McLaren sometimes, great strategy with Hamilton today and they had the makings of a podium and they take him in. I don't get that at all.

tyres about to fall off presumably

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

tyres about to fall off presumably

He was faster when he was taken in and there was no sign of a big drop-off in the preceding laps. Even if they did drop off is it not worth taking the chance since it's looking like they're nailed on for 5th if they do a 17 lap stint on the hards?

Grim.

cmon button

Ghost Train

thought Hamilton could have tried and stayed out a lap or two longer too, maybe the team are being a bit conservative but they are pushing the tyres further than the others

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

thought Hamilton could have tried and stayed out a lap or two longer too, maybe the team are being a bit conservative but they are pushing the tyres further than the others

Thing is they're going longer but they don't seem to be pushing them any harder. Also it seems that with the McLarens when the softs go off they're still as quick as the hards for a while at least.

What tyres are the top two on? Amazing if they're that much quicker than Webber and Alonso on the hards.

amacachi

I stand corrected, Ferrari just handed Button 4th.


At the end of the race however it goes I imagine Button will be disappointed not to have gone 1-2 with Hamilton, it's amazing how much better he's been this weekend at looking after tyres and other than covering off moves it seems Hamilton has had outstanding durability in them.

Ghost Train

Button will be on hards at the end, others might have run out of softs for their last stint. Would like to see McLarens get some payback for for the tyre management at the end.

amacachi

6.3 between Button and Webber, gonna be damn close for the podium.


Have to say I'm loving with the tyres that taking a risk is way more balanced than it used to be in that losing out means really losing out.



Webber ridiculously quick at the moment, should take Button before the end.

amacachi

At the current pace Alonso is going to get lapped which I have to admit I find hilarious.

amacachi

Wonder how long til Hamilton launches one up the inside into 1.

Sparks43

Bad feeling we are going to see vettels finger again:mad:

Grim.

brilliant drive by vettel

amacachi

Not delighted with the result at the top but I have to say I very much enjoyed this race. The tyres worked absolutely perfectly as far as I'm concerned in that good tyre management was rewarded while Alonso/Ferrari made a stupid decision to try to race for the win and ended up a lap down for completely wasting their tyres.

Ghost Train

Very good race right to the end, enjoyed it more than Turkey even without as much overtaking, interesting contrast between race and qualifying pace, hope Redbulls kers keeps acting up, wonder where Ferraris pace went to

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

Very good race right to the end, enjoyed it more than Turkey even without as much overtaking, interesting contrast between race and qualifying pace, hope Redbulls kers keeps acting up, wonder where Ferraris pace went to

Seems to me the Ferarris are "too kind" on the tyres. I don't think the car is fundamentally quick and at full blast they're getting the most from the softs but they can't get anything from the hards.

Warper

What are we 5 races in and Vettel has it practically wrapped up already with Monaco next week he will have won 5 out of the first 6. Hope Ferrari get their act together as its too predictable atm.

Ghost Train

amacachi wrote: »

Seems to me the Ferarris are "too kind" on the tyres. I don't think the car is fundamentally quick and at full blast they're getting the most from the softs but they can't get anything from the hards.

to go a lap down though is a huge drop in pace, did seem to be a hard tyre issue but hard to understand why it doesn't effect the others, unless he was just holding the others up at the start

amacachi

Hot favorite yes, nowhere near wrapped up. Monaco next where a big fall-off in grip could well be much more harshly punished and then Canada where I wouldn't be shocked to see a 5-stopper and a few safety cars.

amacachi

Ghost Train wrote: »

to go a lap down though is a huge drop in pace, did seem to be a hard tyre issue but hard to understand why it doesn't effect the others, unless he was just holding the others up at the start

Well that's what I'm saying really. The others seem to have to nurse the softs somewhat so can't get the best out of them while Ferrari getting the "best" from them is still slower than the rest. Then on the hards Ferrari have absolutely no way to get anything out of them. The Ferraris just seem to have a fundamental lack of outright grip meaning that they can drive her like they stole her on the softs without blowing them in 20 seconds but they can't get **** from the hards no matter how hard the drivers push.



Not loving the possible penalties for the yellow flags coming up...

Myrddin

So in some races there's been talk of DRS & KERS making passing too easy. In this race, we had two cars on the longest straight on the calender, the attacking car had DRS & KERS, & the defending car seemingly not using KERS at all...yet no passing by the attcker (Hamilton/Vettel). Is that a case of the Red Bull simply doesn't need KERS, or is it that track characteristics greatly affect the impact of such systems?

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

So in some races there's been talk of DRS & KERS making passing too easy. In this race, we had two cars on the longest straight on the calender, the attacking car had DRS & KERS, & the defending car seemingly not using KERS at all...yet no passing by the attcker (Hamilton/Vettel). Is that a case of the Red Bull simply doesn't need KERS, or is it that track characteristics greatly affect the impact of such systems?

As I said in the last race the tyres had way more impact than the DRS despite appearances. Today it was the same. I don't think in the last race that anyone gained 0.7 along a straight which is what Hamilton needed to do to get past Vettel.

Alun

amacachi wrote: »

Not loving the possible penalties for the yellow flags coming up...

Planet-F1 saying if they do get done it'll be 20sec penalties which will make no difference to the standings anyway.

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

As I said in the last race the tyres had way more impact than the DRS despite appearances. Today it was the same. I don't think in the last race that anyone gained 0.7 along a straight which is what Hamilton needed to do to get past Vettel.

So is the system effectively useless?

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

So is the system effectively useless?

Did you bother to read my post? Just imagine if you can that instead of trying to make up 0.7 seconds they had to make up 0.4. Mind-blowing, I know.

Myrddin

amacachi wrote: »

Did you bother to read my post? Just imagine if you can that instead of trying to make up 0.7 seconds they had to make up 0.4. Mind-blowing, I know.

Your a real charmer today arn't you I was asking your opinion on it.

EvilMonkey

Glad DRS didn't rob us of a good race. I enjoyed Alonso holding up the Red Bulls his fight with Webber and Hamilton chasing down Vettel.

Great race from Vettel, didn't panic when Alonso got in front, didn't panic when the pitstop put him in traffic and got through it quickly, and didn't panic at the end with Hamilton closing in.

Good to see him be put under pressure though.

Was delighted when Heifield got a head of petrov for the competition!

EnterNow wrote: »

So in some races there's been talk of DRS & KERS making passing too easy. In this race, we had two cars on the longest straight on the calender, the attacking car had DRS & KERS, & the defending car seemingly not using KERS at all...yet no passing by the attcker (Hamilton/Vettel). Is that a case of the Red Bull simply doesn't need KERS, or is it that track characteristics greatly affect the impact of such systems?

It was smiler with Alonso at the start. He was getting up to speed on the straight early with kers + Ferarri power and Weber could do nothing when he got DRS on.

The red bull is able to get on full power in the corner and drive onto the straight much better than anyone then the drs zone is too far away when the engine's are basically on the limiter so DRS doesn't give them the speed to make up the gap, by the time they start to get close they are in the breaking zone. DRS will always be more effective when the zone is near the start of a straight where they are accelerating than half way down a long straight when there are nearly at top speed.

Joeyjoejoe83

The fact you can use drs behind a backmarker is a stupid idea. Cost Hamilton victory today, on 3rd and 2nd last laps hamilton was ready to man him but luckily for seb those backmarkers were there.

Myrddin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

The red bull is able to get on full power in the corner and drive onto the straight much better than anyone then the drs zone is too far away when the engine's are basically on the limiter so DRS doesn't give them the speed to make up the gap, by the time they start to get close they are in the breaking zone. DRS will always be more effective when the zone is near the start of a straight where they are accelerating than half way down a long straight when there are nearly at top speed.

Thanks for that, a civilised answer at least So effectively against a Red Bull, the point at which DRS becomes effective is a lot tighter than others due to them being able to get on the power earlier. That makes sense, and just shows its one hell of a machine that car...even without KERS too.

Grim.

ahh colin kolles motorsports biggest twat

amacachi

EnterNow wrote: »

Your a real charmer today arn't you I was asking your opinion on it.

Oh you know it. I apologise if I snapped, I'm just getting a little tired of the constant whinging about the rules from all quarters.

I'm not a fan of DRS as it happens but it's just like the front wing last year, fuel mix buttons, what teams set their revs at, what engine mapping is used etc. etc. At the last few GPs there was moaning about the DRS being too effective when it was the tyres that really made the difference, along with whatever strategy teams were on. There were times in China when on the straight at the start Webber was bouncing off the limiter and couldn't pass anyone but later on the soft tyres with the revs set higher he breezed past them.
It's a lot more complicating than just popping the wing open. McLaren appear to have followed their pattern from last year of having a slippery car which means that they gain a bigger advantage from KERS and DRS than other teams but at the cost of speed behind cars. (See the Indy 500 last season. Franchitti ran a slippery car and when in 1st could actually save fuel. As soon as he was in traffic the lack of downforce, a couple of degrees difference in the front wing was all it was, meant that he couldn't follow cars at all.)

Like I said, I'm not a fan of DRS but it can make a difference depending on the context of the rest of the set-up decisions that teams have made. It's been said that the intention was not to make it easy to pass but to create passing opportunities. If all the teams were running the same strategy and packages at the same point in a race then it would work perfectly, as it is it's up to individual drivers and teams to make the most or least use of it as it suits them.

EDIT: On top of all that today the strategy at the top was a matter of covering off others' strategy moreso than anything else which meant that the top 2 were on pretty much the same strategy and the same point at the end unlike China which was more chaotic and 4 stops weren't planned.