Formula 1 2011: Round 5 - Spanish Grand Prix

Stupid for Button to pit, going to end up behind a train of cars that he's currently faster than.

EDIT: I stand corrected. :pac:

Looking forward to Kobayashi coming through the field at the end and how the Force Indias get on later since it looks like all the frontrunners are leaving the hards til the end.
EDIT: And Heidfeld. :P

Why take Button in now when he's faster than Alonso and Webber while they're on the hards!?

EDIT: I really don't get McLaren sometimes, great strategy with Hamilton today and they had the makings of a podium with Button and they take him in. I don't get that at all.

Ghost Train wrote: »

tyres about to fall off presumably

He was faster when he was taken in and there was no sign of a big drop-off in the preceding laps. Even if they did drop off is it not worth taking the chance since it's looking like they're nailed on for 5th if they do a 17 lap stint on the hards?

I stand corrected, Ferrari just handed Button 4th.


At the end of the race however it goes I imagine Button will be disappointed not to have gone 1-2 with Hamilton, it's amazing how much better he's been this weekend at looking after tyres and other than covering off moves it seems Hamilton has had outstanding durability in them.

6.3 between Button and Webber, gonna be damn close for the podium.


Have to say I'm loving with the tyres that taking a risk is way more balanced than it used to be in that losing out means really losing out.



Webber ridiculously quick at the moment, should take Button before the end.

Wonder how long til Hamilton launches one up the inside into 1.

Hot favorite yes, nowhere near wrapped up. Monaco next where a big fall-off in grip could well be much more harshly punished and then Canada where I wouldn't be shocked to see a 5-stopper and a few safety cars.

So in some races there's been talk of DRS & KERS making passing too easy. In this race, we had two cars on the longest straight on the calender, the attacking car had DRS & KERS, & the defending car seemingly not using KERS at all...yet no passing by the attcker (Hamilton/Vettel). Is that a case of the Red Bull simply doesn't need KERS, or is it that track characteristics greatly affect the impact of such systems?

EnterNow wrote: »

So is the system effectively useless?

Did you bother to read my post? Just imagine if you can that instead of trying to make up 0.7 seconds they had to make up 0.4. Mind-blowing, I know.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

The red bull is able to get on full power in the corner and drive onto the straight much better than anyone then the drs zone is too far away when the engine's are basically on the limiter so DRS doesn't give them the speed to make up the gap, by the time they start to get close they are in the breaking zone. DRS will always be more effective when the zone is near the start of a straight where they are accelerating than half way down a long straight when there are nearly at top speed.

Thanks for that, a civilised answer at least So effectively against a Red Bull, the point at which DRS becomes effective is a lot tighter than others due to them being able to get on the power earlier. That makes sense, and just shows its one hell of a machine that car...even without KERS too.

EnterNow wrote: »

Your a real charmer today arn't you I was asking your opinion on it.

Oh you know it. I apologise if I snapped, I'm just getting a little tired of the constant whinging about the rules from all quarters.

I'm not a fan of DRS as it happens but it's just like the front wing last year, fuel mix buttons, what teams set their revs at, what engine mapping is used etc. etc. At the last few GPs there was moaning about the DRS being too effective when it was the tyres that really made the difference, along with whatever strategy teams were on. There were times in China when on the straight at the start Webber was bouncing off the limiter and couldn't pass anyone but later on the soft tyres with the revs set higher he breezed past them.
It's a lot more complicating than just popping the wing open. McLaren appear to have followed their pattern from last year of having a slippery car which means that they gain a bigger advantage from KERS and DRS than other teams but at the cost of speed behind cars. (See the Indy 500 last season. Franchitti ran a slippery car and when in 1st could actually save fuel. As soon as he was in traffic the lack of downforce, a couple of degrees difference in the front wing was all it was, meant that he couldn't follow cars at all.)

Like I said, I'm not a fan of DRS but it can make a difference depending on the context of the rest of the set-up decisions that teams have made. It's been said that the intention was not to make it easy to pass but to create passing opportunities. If all the teams were running the same strategy and packages at the same point in a race then it would work perfectly, as it is it's up to individual drivers and teams to make the most or least use of it as it suits them.

EDIT: On top of all that today the strategy at the top was a matter of covering off others' strategy moreso than anything else which meant that the top 2 were on pretty much the same strategy and the same point at the end unlike China which was more chaotic and 4 stops weren't planned.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

The red bull is able to get on full power in the corner and drive onto the straight much better than anyone then the drs zone is too far away when the engine's are basically on the limiter so DRS doesn't give them the speed to make up the gap, by the time they start to get close they are in the breaking zone. DRS will always be more effective when the zone is near the start of a straight where they are accelerating than half way down a long straight when there are nearly at top speed.

Funny enough Hamilton was about 20 kph slower than Vettel as he exited the last corner (obviously, as he's still accelerating) yet in the short run to the activation zone Hamilton was already at the same speed, showing that even without DRS Hamilton was much faster on the straight but the last corner cost him too much.

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

The fact you can use drs behind a backmarker is a stupid idea. Cost Hamilton victory today, on 3rd and 2nd last laps hamilton was ready to man him but luckily for seb those backmarkers were there.

Agree on that.

I think this was the race that shows Vettel's improved racecraft/maturity.

Not even a lock up. Sublime. Hamilton & Vettel is developing into a nice little rivalry!

Ghost Train wrote: »

Wonder are Redbull burning more fuel in qualifying to blow the defuser harder and then loosing this advantage during the race when they need to manage the fuel over the race distance

Sounds plausible. Hard to know just how big their purely aero advantage is with their apex speed advantage and generally lower top speed.

Ghost Train wrote: »

It's just hard to see why they were a second ahead of McLaren in qualifying and then on race day it's much closer between the teams

I'm pretty much agreeing with you, but there are other possibilities like a smaller fuel tank etc. RB seem to have a much bigger range in top speeds over a race so there's clearly something going on, your solution would is pretty neat but what I'd like to see top speeds in qualifying to compare to the race. They seem to still have a big apex speed advantage in the race though.