Once Upon A Time (ABC) [** Spoilers **]

DeWitt

I feel like I'm done with Emma Swan. She's insufferable at this point. Selfishness I get, but all around assholishness I cannot accept. The writing for her character is so inconsistent. One minute she's kissing Hook and encouraging Regina to meet Henry, the next she's dissing Hook about being the last person she'd ever kiss and for the last 8 episodes she has been going on about taking Henry back to New York without any discussion with his other mother.


Looking back at 3B and all I see is wasted potential. They tried to pack too much story into this one little arc with not enough time to invest in it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ It's so annoying that they spent all season banging on about Emma and her magic only for her to lose it in such a dumb way and then just give up! I mean, she could have made a little seal with her thumb and index finger so her lips didn't actually touch Hook's. She probably could have used her magic to magic up a bit of cling film or something to cover his lips!! Such a dumb way to have it happen.

They really have been writing her poorly this season. I can see there may be many reasons for her acting the way she has been but they're spending way too much time on silly flashbacks and nonsense when they could be spending it on actual character development and logical story telling.

Next week looks weird. I assume Emma and Hook fall in the time portal and are in the past for the two episodes?

p.s. I had to pause it from laughing when Regina told Henry to go find a closet and hide in it! The Swan Queen shippers must've lost their lives when she said that! You know all about hiding in closets, Regina

DeWitt

Oh yeah, I actually 100% understand where she's coming from and you could argue that her selfishness is reasonable, but they give no voice to it on the show. I'd like Emma to have a moment where she laments these memories. We had like 2 minor moments, but I want to see her emotions boil over.

Uh huh, looks like they're transported to the events that took place in "Snow Falls" You can see them dancing in King Midas' castle in the promo.
Still kinda hoping for a surprise cameo from Jamie Dornan. Remember A&E said originally they had planned to bring him back for a 3B arc, but it didn't work out because of Fifty Shades. I for one would've loved to see The Huntsman and Emma adventuring through FTL. oh well. [/
spoiler]

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

It's one of the things I find most annoying about TV shows. When they don't give the time to their characters. I'm not looking for those awful scenes some shows have where they literally express all their feelings to one another but some acknowledgment of what's going on shouldn't be too much to ask for. When you have to fill it in for yourself it's leaving it open to any kind of individual interpretation.

For me Emma's fake memories of raising Henry are probably the only time she's felt like she had a proper place in the world. Now they've been taken away from her so, once again, she can put her life on hold to save everyone else. It's perfectly understandable that she's reluctant to do it and even when she commits to doing it she's reluctant to stick around after. It's fairly dumb of her to think she can get that life back now both she and Henry remember their real lives but it's not so far fetched that she'd want to try.

However.... what we get on screen is Emma acting like a selfish child at times and allowing herself to have all her decisions made for her and really just having all her strong personality traits stripped away without any real explanation as to why? Obviously Hook wants her to stick around but at least he's actually tried to get her to tell him why she's acting this way. Everyone else, her terrible parents included, are too wrapped up in their own lives to even notice she's nothing like the Emma of previous seasons. Even Snow wondering why Emma couldn't find the book last week made it more about her than about Emma.

Maybe Dornan will pop up next week. I think they filmed 50 Shades in Vancouver so it's not like he'd have had to up sticks to appear.

DeWitt

Exactly! Well said.

CastorTroy

So it's only now that they realise the flying monkeys are people they know?

Haven't watched the trailer for next week, but I was wondering, up until the end, what they were gonna do for next week's double episode.

Felt the whole thing with Dorothy was pretty pointless. Felt like they had her in it just because they felt they needed to.

Was trying to figure out how time works in this series. Just seems weird and makes no sense.



Note to self: If proposing to a woman at some point in the future, give her an engagement dagger.

DeWitt

CastorTroy wrote: »

So it's only now that they realise the flying monkeys are people they know?

Haven't watched the trailer for next week, but I was wondering, up until the end, what they were gonna do for next week's double episode.

Felt the whole thing with Dorothy was pretty pointless. Felt like they had her in it just because they felt they needed to.

Was trying to figure out how time works in this series. Just seems weird and makes no sense.



Note to self: If proposing to a woman at some point in the future, give her an engagement dagger.

Based on comments made in the series, the Neverland arc (up to Henry/Emma leaving) took place over roughly 8 days. This half of the season has been....what like 5 days? (Based solely on morning/night shots)
Timing is awful, and one of the more inconsistent things about the show. It's like how they insist Emma gave birth to Henry when she was 18 when that's just not true. Because she turned 28yrs old on the first day she met Henry where he announced "I'm ten!" Basic math, people.
Season two seems to cover only a matter of weeks too. It's all very strange.

CastorTroy

Not so much the timing that way, but in all the other worlds.

Maybe I missed something but how is everyone in all the other worlds the same age as when the first curse was cast?

And if Storybrooke was stuck in time, how did they get all advancements in technology, etc. over the 28 years?
And on another note, was it explained how Henry got to New York since if no one but him could leave Storybrooke, how'd he get out?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

To quote Clueless, kind of, Looking for logic on Once Upon A Time is like looking for meaning in a Pauly Shore movie.

I really don't think the people behind this show thought they'd get more than one season out of it. The first season had structure to it, everything since then seems almost made up on the spot. There are so many things now that completely undo things that happened before or huge gaping plot holes or continuity errors. If you look at Adam Horowitz's twitter account he is constantly arguing with people over things that really don't make sense and insisting that things were planned all along but I ain't buying it.

CastorTroy

Yeah I know there's no logic to it. It makes as much sense as The Following at this point.

But sure if it was all perfect and we had nothing to nitpick, what would we do?

RobbingBandit

Great episode, Hook is great, loads of twists, loved seeing Ruby again. Figured who that girl in the cell was as soon as I seen her.

Hope that was not the girl from Frozen, would be a weird villain choice.I am thinking it was The White Witch/Queen Jadis from Narnia, the ice came from an urn and she is dead

DeWitt

Done. Can't stick around for another season of stuff we've all ready seen in season one.
What was the whole point of the Oz storyline? Everything that happened in 3B just feels so pointless now. I hate that Regina is all alone again, and no doubt will be thrown head first into a love triangle and more pain next year.


And I have absolutely zero faith in their plans for Elsa. Brilliant cross merchandising idea(Ka-Ching!), but haven't the folks at Disney seen Adam and Eddy's work? A woman can't function without a man by her side. Bitterly disappointed. This finale was make or break for me, and I'm afraid it's break.

Agent Coulson

So I guess I know which Disney movie I haven't seen yet that I will have to watch if I'm going to get the references next season.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

DeWitt wrote: »

Done. Can't stick around for another season of stuff we've all ready seen in season one.
What was the whole point of the Oz storyline? Everything that happened in 3B just feels so pointless now. I hate that Regina is all alone again, and no doubt will be thrown head first into a love triangle and more pain next year.


And I have absolutely zero faith in their plans for Elsa. Brilliant cross merchandising idea(Ka-Ching!), but haven't the folks at Disney seen Adam and Eddy's work? A woman can't function without a man by her side. Bitterly disappointed. This finale was make or break for me, and I'm afraid it's break.

I'm afraid I have to agree with this. That double episode would have made a great series finale, minus the last scene with Regina. Everything is wrapped up nicely, Emma finally has a home, which I kind of thought was the point of the whole show, obviously not. You can't help but think that they made this episode to end it just in case they didn't get picked up again. They'd probably have shot something else where Marion was just some randomer and left the Frozen bit out too.

I have no idea what they're going to do in S4 other than destroy Frozen. Your point about Eddy and Adam's inability to write female characters who aren't defined by men is bang on. Something everyone loved about Frozen was that it wasn't about the romantic leads, Elsa didn't even have one! God only knows what they're going to do to her next year, she isn't even a villain!!!

I enjoyed the silliness of the double ep though, up until the end. It was like watching someone's fan fiction brought to life

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Also, and forgive me if this was explained, I only half pay attention most of the time.... if Regina was the one that had Marion executed in the original time line why did Robin have anything to do with Regina? Did they not know what happened to her?

Dutchess

I was wondering about that too, actually. That's a bit far for a second chance.
Poor Regina though. I really loved her and Robin all loved up.
So the Frozen route? Could "just" be the Snow Queen with a ripoff of an outfit and that's where the comparison ends...?

CastorTroy

It really was Frozen.
https://twitter.com/OnceABC/status/465718494206906368/photo/1

Once again it only confirms they're making everything up as they go along. I seriously doubt they planned on introducing her back before the movie was released or even before it turned out to be sucessful. When it was they were probably told to cash in or else decided to cash in themselves.

I must watch that film anyway.

On another note, I enjoyed the episode up until the end when they hurt Regina again. Why is it always her suffering? At this point I really can't blame her for constantly turning evil. Though one suggestion I read was that the guy in the bar with the tattoo was actually Will Scarlet, who we know from Wonderland, and not Robin.

As for why Robin didn't seem to mind Regina killing Marion, I'd say it was to do with Marion not wanting the queen to know her name so word never got out. Though why she had her in the first place, we don't know.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CastorTroy wrote: »

Once again it only confirms they're making everything up as they go along. I seriously doubt they planned on introducing her back before the movie was released or even before it turned out to be sucessful. When it was they were probably told to cash in or else decided to cash in themselves.

I read a little interview with Adam and Eddie before the finale aired and they were asked hoe much of season 4 was set up in the finale. They said oh yeah, the last part of the episode very much sets up where we're going in season 4, you'll know where we're going for sure. Eh.... no!

All they did as far as season 4 is concerned was tack on that ending. They haven't even cast Elsa yet so if they knew exactly what they were doing surely they would have cast her and had the actual person appear in the finale. Or at the very least have a proper way of introducing her. I reckon what it was was they said let's have a jar thingy fall through the portal with Emma and Hook and we can decide later what's actually in it. They haven't set anything up for S4, in fact they pretty much wrapped up most of the characters lives, bar Regina.

CastorTroy

Ah I know they've planned one thing for season 4 and signed at least one character from Wonderland. But yeah they're basically saying "Right sure we'll introduce this one and worry about what to do with her in a few months".

Also, I don't claim to be an expert in love and all, but I do find it funny how quickly Emma moves on. Season starts with her about to get engaged to a guy, then she goes back to Storybrooke, keeps wondering about Neal finds him, he dies, then she moves on to Hook. So she wastes no time in getting back on the horse.

Oh and I guess flying monkeys stay pregnant longer than humans since Aurora still hadn't given birth.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

CastorTroy wrote: »

Also, I don't claim to be an expert in love and all, but I do find it funny how quickly Emma moves on. Season starts with her about to get engaged to a guy, then she goes back to Storybrooke, keeps wondering about Neal finds him, he dies, then she moves on to Hook. So she wastes no time in getting back on the horse.

Oh and I guess flying monkeys stay pregnant longer than humans since Aurora still hadn't given birth.

It was implied Aurora had her baby, Grumpy made a "joke" about how good the timing was, one more day and she'd have given birth to a flying monkey. I'd assume Sarah Bolger filmed more than that one brief shot of her or did she really go all the way to Vancouver for that?

I liked Emma and Hook's relationship up until this last episode. It was handled reasonably well, as far as relationships on Once are. She had massive walls up, he was slowly chipping them away but then BOOM! she's tonguing him in the street, the hussy! That's just another thing that suggests to me that they had no idea if they were getting a 4th season or not. If you took away the Marion reveal and the last scene with Elsa that was a pretty well wrapped up show.

bren2001

CastorTroy wrote: »

It really was Frozen.
https://twitter.com/OnceABC/status/465718494206906368/photo/1

Once again it only confirms they're making everything up as they go along. I seriously doubt they planned on introducing her back before the movie was released or even before it turned out to be sucessful. When it was they were probably told to cash in or else decided to cash in themselves.

I must watch that film anyway.

On another note, I enjoyed the episode up until the end when they hurt Regina again. Why is it always her suffering? At this point I really can't blame her for constantly turning evil. Though one suggestion I read was that the guy in the bar with the tattoo was actually Will Scarlet, who we know from Wonderland, and not Robin.

As for why Robin didn't seem to mind Regina killing Marion, I'd say it was to do with Marion not wanting the queen to know her name so word never got out. Though why she had her in the first place, we don't know.

I think people are being overly critical on the inclusion of Frozen. What do you expect them to do, plan out each characters path from episode 1 to the end? That is not how screen writing works, look a Breaking Bad, a critically acclaimed show where 2 of the main characters (Jesse and Mike) were supposed to be killed off pretty quickly. Yes I expect the rough arc of the main characters to be planned out but if a great opportunity presents itself, why not take it?

They only get 1 season funding at a time, as a result they try to contain the whole story to one season. I thought the episode was fine, it had its plot holes. The show will continue to have 1 season long villains until it is done. I thought the Pan story was quite good while Zelena went nowhere. I would much prefer 10 episodes of this, thought through. I am sick of the terrible acting from Henry, Emma, Snow and Charming and the convenient "true love fixes everything" crap they spew out when the work themselves into a corner. Saying all that, Rumple and to a less extent Reginas acting hold the show together. I'll certainly give it a few episodes of next season. I was one of the few who loved all of Lost and I almost quit that, I'll give it time.

cailinardthair

Just watched the final episode there. Thought it was good on a whole and enjoyed it but like most people didn't like bringing back maid Marion....feel like they just want to keep Regina bad....and I like her and Robin together, would have been nice to see the relationship develop over the next series..... I dont see the reason to it.

Was nice to see some old face back,think it needs to more of the fairy tale characters back. I feel the story is so bogged down with the charming family, rumple and Regina all season that some of my favorite characters were left out. Plus is Cinderella ever coming back?

As for Elsa from Frozen...really hope they wont have her as evil from the beginning....she not evil.

JP Liz V1

Be great if they get Kristen Bell to play Elsa

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Be great if they get Kristen Bell to play Elsa

But she was Anna.... I'd be confused.

JP Liz V1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

But she was Anna.... I'd be confused.

Yes she voiced Anna in the film but has the look for Elsa

Agent Coulson

I haven't seen Frozen but the woman walking away at the end of the episode reminded me of Laura Vandervoort.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I haven't seen Frozen but the woman walking away at the end of the episode reminded me of Laura Vandervoort.

They haven't cast anyone yet, or so they say, so it could end up being anyone. Anyone blonde, obviously.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bren2001 wrote: »

I am sick of the terrible acting from Henry, Emma, Snow and Charming and the convenient "true love fixes everything" crap they spew out when the work themselves into a corner.

I used to think Jennifer Morrison was a good actress and you still see glimpses of it when she gets to do something even vaguely grounded in reality but for a lot of this season it feels like she's phoning it in. It's like she can't even believe she's saying and doing the things she's saying and doing.
The Charmings, bless 'em, really try to sell their lines but some of it's just too ridiculous to take seriously. I think the writing is to blame for a lot of these problems. Henry is just rubbish though. He's like a kid trying to act, nothing natural about him, at all. #KillHenry

Rumple and Regina are the only ones that manage to sell their crazy lines regularly but even some of Regina's lines make me cringe, especially in the second part of this season.

JP Liz V1

Frozen's Anna and Kristoff cast http://tvline.com/2014/07/01/once-upon-a-time-scott-michael-foster-kristoff-elizabeth-lail-anna-cast-season-4/

CastorTroy

Was just thinking, has it been confirmed that Elsa is the villain for next season? And has it been said if they're doing 2 arcs again like Neverland and Wicked Witch?

I know Elsa is in it, and she was trapped in a magic jar. But remember it was Rumple's vault and he was evil back then, which means she could've just been too powerful for him to beat so he could only trap her.