Security for state visit OTT?

Shield

Mod post: Can I just point out that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of the retired ex-RUC guys who 'took Patten' are now back in the PSNI organisation in some way either as security guards on the gate, as trainers, as leadership advisors, and so on.

These guys would still see themselves as being part of the organisation, and would still refer to themselves as one of the guys, and would expect to be referred to as one of the guys by their their now "former" colleagues!

It is entirely possible that goldie fish fits into the above category as, if you think about it, what other jobs can ex-members perform other than jobs they would have had prior experience performing during the course of their service?

@goldish fish - For all you know, I'm not in the PSNI. As far as you're concerned, to use familiar terminology, it's just a claim until you've had it verified by someone you trust on here. You should know by now that I (just like you may have done) am using terminology that I use every day in work, and I would hope that you have not been offended by such standard terminology?

@Esel - Fair point, but in the job, just as with any job, we get so used to using certain terminology that I imagine it can be very difficult to simply stop when it comes your time to retire/move on. I don't think goldie fish intentionally misled us because he has stated many times on the forum that he is no longer a Garda. He doesn't strike me as someone who'd forget such a simple part of his backstory!

I think it's fair to say that I've addressed everything, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction, so can we please get this back on topic before Lizzy is back home still deciding whether she likes Guinness or not?

Thanks guys.

Zambia

psni wrote: »

so can we please get this back on topic before Lizzy is back home still deciding whether she likes Guinness or not?

Is she going to the Guinness Factory ??? A photo of HRH drinking a pint of the black stuff would be cool.

Hopefully if all goes well then the next visit would not require such security.

Shield

Zambia wrote: »

Is she going to the Guinness Factory ??? A photo of HRH drinking a pint of the black stuff would be cool.

I'd like to think of her elegantly sipping on a pint through a straw instead of horsing it down, pint after pint, and then discovering the rather pressing need to use one's outhouse, where one is required to bring one's own toilet roll! :eek:

Lapin

Getting back to my original point, I have some friends (British and Irish) who were looking forward to a trip to Dublin in the hope of catching a glimpse of the Queen.

They have now cancelled their day out as the chances of them doing so now appear to be nil. The whole visit now lacks a sense of occasion and appears very detached from from the very people the visit is supposed to impress.

I'm disappointed for them and cannot help feeling the security arrangements could not be handled more discreetly. Denying the public any chance to see the guest invited to our shores on their behalf is akin to treating them all as potential assassins.

I cannot think of any precedent for such a draconian action during any other state visit.

Geansai

To be fair, the Queen of England is visiting a country which has an active terrorist group who list her amongst their targets, and who have on occassion killed members of her family.

For the vast majority of people on this Island, times have changed, but for some they have not.

It is with this in mind that extra security is most necessary. Yes, it can appear extreme, but given the circumstances and tensions which may be heightened, it is, unfortunately, necessary.

source

psni wrote: »

Mod post: Can I just point out that, in the interest of fairness, a lot of the retired ex-RUC guys who 'took Patten' are now back in the PSNI organisation in some way either as security guards on the gate, as trainers, as leadership advisors, and so on.

These guys would still see themselves as being part of the organisation, and would still refer to themselves as one of the guys, and would expect to be referred to as one of the guys by their their now "former" colleagues!

It is entirely possible that goldie fish fits into the above category as, if you think about it, what other jobs can ex-members perform other than jobs they would have had prior experience performing during the course of their service?

@goldish fish - For all you know, I'm not in the PSNI. As far as you're concerned, to use familiar terminology, it's just a claim until you've had it verified by someone you trust on here. You should know by now that I (just like you may have done) am using terminology that I use every day in work, and I would hope that you have not been offended by such standard terminology?

@Esel - Fair point, but in the job, just as with any job, we get so used to using certain terminology that I imagine it can be very difficult to simply stop when it comes your time to retire/move on. I don't think goldie fish intentionally misled us because he has stated many times on the forum that he is no longer a Garda. He doesn't strike me as someone who'd forget such a simple part of his backstory!

I think it's fair to say that I've addressed everything, hopefully to everyone's satisfaction, so can we please get this back on topic before Lizzy is back home still deciding whether she likes Guinness or not?

Thanks guys.

Just to put this to bed for once and for all. I go by the name ackack on another site that Goldie fish frequents, if it is the same person, then he is indeed a former member of AGS who served in the same station as I now do, and he is also current serving member of the RDF.

OS119

Lapin wrote: »

Getting back to my original point, I have some friends (British and Irish) who were looking forward to a trip to Dublin in the hope of catching a glimpse of the Queen.

They have now cancelled their day out as the chances of them doing so now appear to be nil. The whole visit now lacks a sense of occasion and appears very detached from from the very people the visit is supposed to impress.

I'm disappointed for them and cannot help feeling the security arrangements could not be handled more discreetly. Denying the public any chance to see the guest invited to our shores on their behalf is akin to treating them all as potential assassins.

I cannot think of any precedent for such a draconian action during any other state visit.

i think the problem, in addition to the valid points made above, is that this is a first, that it comes on the back of political and economic upheaval in Ireland, and that many would suggest that the very specific timing could be better.

there is obviously no real precedent for this, nothing to base assumptions on, no previous experience that allows people to say 'well, last time she was here...' - so people who'se job is to be hugely conservative when it comes to risk analysis have unsurprisingly opted for the 'no risk' option.

it is, i would imagine, very likely that in a second visit there would be vastly less overt security and disruption - there will be experience to draw on and hindsight to learn lessons from. there's also, as ever, a political issue - that the Irish government knows how damaging it would be for the countrys image if there were to be any serious attempt on the Queens life while she is a guest in Ireland - so its quite possible that whatever technically correct measures the security authorities placed on the Ministers desk for approval, the Minister just said 'double it'.

source

Lapin wrote: »

Getting back to my original point, I have some friends (British and Irish) who were looking forward to a trip to Dublin in the hope of catching a glimpse of the Queen.

They have now cancelled their day out as the chances of them doing so now appear to be nil. The whole visit now lacks a sense of occasion and appears very detached from from the very people the visit is supposed to impress.

I'm disappointed for them and cannot help feeling the security arrangements could not be handled more discreetly. Denying the public any chance to see the guest invited to our shores on their behalf is akin to treating them all as potential assassins.

I cannot think of any precedent for such a draconian action during any other state visit.

The problem is the very viable threat to the queen from the idiots up North. Personally I hope that this visit goes off without issue, as anything that goes wrong will be seen on the world stage and will have massive ecenomic effects on Ireland in terms of lowering the numbers coming here already and adversly affecting potential tourism from the UK.

Lets face it, if this goes off without a hitch there's approx. 61 Million people within a few hours travelling time who will see that Ireland is not a dangerous place and will be more willing to travel here and spend their hard earned cash.

If it goes to pot on the other hand, then there'll be 61 million people who will want nothing to do with us. The security measures are drastic and unfortunate. The problem is that because of the idiots up north who think it's still the early 1900's will try somthing, it is necessary.

OS119

interesting to note that today (monday) the Met have closed the Mall and conducted a controlled explosion because of a coded bomb warning, apparently from a DR group.

the BBC's Frank Gardiner says that this is the first coded bomb warning from DR's in mainland Britain for years.

everyone knows that it is a long established tactic of such groups to cause chaos by phoning in coded warning that don't turn out to be real - terrorism for 30p - but the recent increase in the capability of the DR's indicates that they probably can produce the goods. if they have the technical ability to do it in London then they certainly have the ability to do it in Dublin.

d3exile

Lapin wrote: »

Getting back to my original point, I have some friends (British and Irish) who were looking forward to a trip to Dublin in the hope of catching a glimpse of the Queen.

They have now cancelled their day out as the chances of them doing so now appear to be nil. The whole visit now lacks a sense of occasion and appears very detached from from the very people the visit is supposed to impress.

I'm disappointed for them and cannot help feeling the security arrangements could not be handled more discreetly. Denying the public any chance to see the guest invited to our shores on their behalf is akin to treating them all as potential assassins.

I cannot think of any precedent for such a draconian action during any other state visit.

This isn't just any state visit though- 8,000 Gardai are being pulled from their stations nationwide to be deployed, protecting a handful of people from one minority of people who can't move on with their lives!

I don't think arrangements are OTT but if they are it's not our security forces to blame it's the gob****es with balaclavas and Celtic jerseys...

angelfire9

d3exile wrote: »

This isn't just any state visit though- 8,000 Gardai are being pulled from their stations nationwide to be deployed, protecting a handful of people from one minority of people who can't move on with their lives!

I don't think arrangements are OTT but if they are it's not our security forces to blame it's the gob****es with balaclavas and Celtic jerseys...

+1

One of those gob****es was on Clare FM this morning and stated that if he had the fire power he'd take a shot at Her Majesty in a heart beat :eek:

Same muppet stated that Ronan Kerr deserved to die as a member of the "crown forces" :mad:

(I'll be making a complaint to the Broadcasting commission as Clare FM should not be broadcasting political statements from terrorists)

Zambia

angelfire9 wrote: »

(I'll be making a complaint to the Broadcasting commission as Clare FM should not be broadcasting political statements from terrorists)

Or just the general rantings of Nuphy's

discus

I'm a second verifier for Goldie Fish. Same dude from another forum of which, he is well known!

Esel

I would just like to point out that I never questioned goldie fish's bona fides.

psni: Sorry for returning to this after your mod post, but as it has been resurrected, I thought it would be OK to post this clarification.

source

Bomb scare on a bus in Maynooth tonight. No links as yet, but it's all over twitter with pics of Army and Gardai at scene.

http://twitpic.com/4yn4z6

http://yfrog.com/hsiwnknj

EDIT: http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=58933&locID=1.2&pagename=news

Zambia

Not to mention its on the evening news here.

angelfire9

I have a BAD BAD feeling about this visit and will be glad when its all over
Am doubly glad my OH's unit isn't gone to Dublin for the duration as I reckon riots are the minimum we can expect

HOPEFULLY the next 4 days will pass without death on the streets either in Dublin, Kildare, Cashel or Cork

It would be a disaster for the country and the Gardai would be blamed if anything does go wrong though god knows they've done their best to prevent an incident, the actions of the loony paramilitary fringe probably can't be prevented though, hampered yes, but prevented probably not
Its a pity they can't turn their determination to some good use!

I really hope I'm wrong.....

Contra Proferentem

Eirigi are on O'Connell Street pushing the bounds of peaceful protest. I hope they get a good kicking if they break the law.

Since I've been so vocal in support of the right to peaceful protest, it has to work both ways.

source

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

Eirigi are on O'Connell Street pushing the bounds of peaceful protest. I hope they get a good kicking if they break the law.

Since I've been so vocal in support of the right to peaceful protest, it has to work both ways.

Only problem is Eirigi usually don't know where the bounds of peaceful protest end and riots begin.

Edit: as predicted http://www.demotix.com/news/693442/violence-breaks-out-dublin-english-queens-visit-ireland Shame the pictures don't match up with the narrative......(narrative:gardai try to remove sit down protest; Pictures: scumbags pushing against barriers.)

Argh. Wish I went up now

Anyone know if there's any one planning any protesting or moaning for tomorrow? Will charge the camera batteries.

source

Deleted User wrote: »

Argh. Wish I went up now

Anyone know if there's any one planning any protesting or moaning for tomorrow? Will charge the camera batteries.

Apparently there will be some moaning happening around the GPO at around half 6 this evening.

My unit has gone up but bloody injury has me left out.

foinse

foinse wrote: »

Apparently there will be some moaning happening around the GPO at around half 6 this evening.

My unit has gone up but bloody injury has me left out.

Any link at all or do you know who has what planned?

Also, will I have any issue getting in up there? Bag checks and stuff, they'll obviously see the camera gear...

dell1211

foinse wrote: »

Only problem is Eirigi usually don't know where the bounds of peaceful protest end and riots begin.

Edit: as predicted http://www.demotix.com/news/693442/violence-breaks-out-dublin-english-queens-visit-ireland Shame the pictures don't match up with the narrative......(narrative:gardai try to remove sit down protest; Pictures: scumbags pushing against barriers.)

All young scumbags by the looks of it, scum who dont have a clue about what they are protesting about because they would have dropped out of school after their junior cert, scum who dont care how their actions impact the country because they dont have to worry about losing their job due to the economy because they have never had a job.

source

Deleted User wrote: »

Any link at all or do you know who has what planned?

Also, will I have any issue getting in up there? Bag checks and stuff, they'll obviously see the camera gear...

No idea mate, it was on twitter earlier, on #queensvisit.

Cheers Foinse. Might stick the ould head up and see what's happening.

I'm just thinking that, considering there's trouble now, it might be all quiet for the rest of the day while the protestors go home and rest until tomorrow, and I don't want to be up and down like a yo-yo all week. Grand and exciting with some potential for great images when it's all kicking off, but it's boring as fcuk waiting for something to happen.


I was at that "march to the GPO" (against the IMF, etc.) last year. Longest day of my life.

Eirigi are protesting tomorrow. At the war memorial gardens. So I'll save myself for that. Just have to figure out where it is, and I'm laughing.

http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest160511_3.html

Contra Proferentem

Saw on Sky News that the eirigi stewards had to try and prevent the young scummers from attacking the garda line and escalating things near the GOR.

Those who had a genuine interest in protesting should be happy enough now, they got their views across and the Gardai permitted them to do so in a fair manner. No need for pushing, shoving, obstruction, sit down protests, or anything else.

Contra Proferentem

eirigi are denying that their members were involved in public order incidents, and had discouraged arrestable offences. They claim to have moved shop to a wreath laying at 16 Moore Street.

Well done to the Gardai on duty, they done well and showed enormous restraint in the face of fireworks and blocks of wood, but was concerned that some members were left facing the missiles without protective gear until the Public Order Unit was sent forward to protect them.

Overall from what I've heard and saw, peaceful protest was permitted and enormous restraint was shown in dealing with those who attempted to create disorder afterwards.

Zambia

psni wrote: »

I'd like to think of her elegantly sipping on a pint through a straw instead of horsing it down, pint after pint, and then discovering the rather pressing need to use one's outhouse, where one is required to bring one's own toilet roll! :eek:

The factory pic could be a go still.

gilly0512

Zambia wrote: »

Is she going to the Guinness Factory ??? A photo of HRH drinking a pint of the black stuff would be cool.

Hopefully if all goes well then the next visit would not require such security.

I am delighted to see the Queen here and please god the four day visit will pass off without any incidents of note. While such visits will always draw the usual lowlifes hell bent on trouble, judging on yesterdays performance the Gardai are more capable of dealing with any trouble, and the lessons from the 'Love Ulster' parade have been well learnt. In relation to the next visit hopefully it will be William and Kate, as that would definitely draw huge crowds, one only has to look at the recent viewing figures for the royal wedding in this country to see that William and Kate would have them thronging the streets. Finally Sky news were very complimentary of the Gardai yesterday, stated that they were taking no crap, and at even the first sign of trouble they were straight in there, so well done boys and girls