Security for state visit OTT?

Lapin

Having read the article below in this morning's Irish Times, I now feel that the security arrangements proposed for the royal visit are unnecessarily cautious and way over the top.

I was in London three weeks ago during the royal wedding and despite the presence of politicians and royals from all over the world, none of the streets were closed to pedestrians on the big day.

I'm aware that it was a different place and occasion, but it must have been a logistical nightmare for the security forces nonetheless. And despite a large police presence the atmosphere around Westminster was relaxed and jovial.

The arrangements for Dublin next week seem paranoid in comparison.

That link above doesn't seem to work. Here it is again http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0514/1224296946132.html

Zambia

Mate if anything happened to her Majesty during that visit it would not look well. It just takes one crackpot.

Marsden

Zambia wrote: »

Mate if anything happened to her Majesty during that visit it would not look well.

Definitely wouldn't go well for her.

Lapin

Zambia wrote: »

Mate if anything happened to her Majesty during that visit it would not look well. It just takes one crackpot.

To me, that is like saying we should never leave the house in the morning in case something terrible happens to us on the way to work.

Zambia

Lapin wrote: »

To me, that is like saying we should never leave the house in the morning in case something terrible happens to us on the way to work.

Yeah thats the same :rolleyes:

Whinge whinge whinge ...seriously in relation to this visit that's all I'm hearing.

Lapin

Oi Zambia, I'm not whinging mate.

And if you can't come up with something better than that, then bugger off and read some threads in AH or something.

I'm only expressing an opinion on boards like thousands of others.

I welcome the Queen's visit here and look forward to the visit of President Obama the following week.

I'm only pointing out my feelings on the security arrangements in comparison to what I experienced in London last month. That is non whinging.

Get over yourself.

Irish Fire

Lapin wrote: »

Oi Zambia, I'm not whinging mate.

And if you can't come up with something better than that, then bugger off and read some threads in AH or something.

I'm only expressing an opinion on boards like thousands of others.

I welcome the Queen's visit here and look forward to the visit of President Obama the following week.

I'm only pointing out my feelings on the security arrangements in comparison to what I experienced in London last month. That is non whinging.

Get over yourself.

+1

These visits can only bring good to the country, we will be on a worldwide stage for the week. Look at it from the tourist point of view, HRH's "followers" are mostly older people and will look at her visit to Ireland as a good thing and hopefully come over either during or after her visit. Now look at it from OUR point of view, these "followers" are older people with a few bob in their pockets and will spend it here (unlike the students that come on a shoestring budget and spend little or nothing) now where's the "bad" in that? And maybe we'll win the Eurovision as well...... :-)) (I'm not a Jedward fan by the way)

Honestly I think it's a good thing, and I just hope that some fool dosen't have a pop at her and set us back 40 years....... Even if it's only from the point of and Irishman having to take out an Irishman to save the life of a Queen, because trust me folks if someone does have a pop that's what will happen........

And think about the set back we will have on the worldwide stage if that happens, we have enough problems as it is......

Zambia

I apologise if it sounded like I was having a go at you. The truth is most posts I see in relation are just that.

Lapin

Lapin wrote: »

I was in London three weeks ago during the royal wedding and despite the presence of politicians and royals from all over the world, none of the streets were closed to pedestrians on the big day.

Most of the politicians at the wedding would have been commonwealth countries who accept the Queen as their monarch. They haven't been at war for decades. They don't have active criminals trying to blow up police and army personnel. Do you think whats happening here is ott now?

goldie fish

People need to accept(and probably do, but won't admit it) that this level of security is the same for any visiting world leader. The difference here being there are numerous assholes who have made actual threats to the visit of the 85 year old grandmother and her 90 year old husband. You won't have to go far on boards.ie to find them.

It is the activities of these groups, and their rabble rousing hangers on that cause the disruption, and always have. This sort of disruptive activity activity is the reason the British army patrolled the streets of NI. When the activity stopped, the BA went back to barracks. These groups want to cause trouble that would bring the troops back on the streets. It is the reason that in 1980 most of the Irish army spent their time on the border between the North and South, and in 2000 none of them did.

Don't forget that the Uncle of her ninety year old husband, then in his 80s, was killed by this type of organisation, while he was fishing in a small boat in sligo.

ironclaw

All it takes as has been said is one crack pot with a misaligned ideal. Most people don't care about the visit and I say that in the whole England V Ireland thing. Get over it, you can't cry over something forever. The rest of the country has pretty swiftly moved on. Mourne the loss's on both sides and just work towards a greater, more practical, good.

I suppose the protection is OTT but it is the equivalent of Obama walking down the main street in Baghdad with some of the crack pots we have here.

MagicSean

I think it will be great if we can pull off a massive security operation like this with no major incident. When the EU leaders were over a while back the Gardaí did us proud when handling the protestors from all over the world. Made is look great internationally. If we can do the same this time it will be great for us too and might encourage future visits, which should benefit the country in international trade and tourism.

Newbie_2009

The security is not OTT because if anything happens to her the economic cost to this country would be phenomenal. Irish goods and service would probably be boycotted en-masse in the UK. The massively drawn out itinerary on the other hand is OTT. It makes the whole thing unnecessarily complicated for little extra benefit. Quick in quick out and a few well staged pics would have been just the job.

Esel

Newbie_2009 wrote: »

Quick in quick out and a few well staged pics would have been just the job.

How would that have looked? It's all about the optics. Even Jarry is playing ball.

Newbie_2009

Esel wrote: »

How would that have looked? It's all about the optics. Even Jarry is playing ball.

playing ball... ah now its probably an insurance policy against the backlash if things go pear shaped

Kinda off topic (though it does fit in with the thread) but does anyone here know how the Gardaì will be on the streets for this?

I enjoy photographing their stuff, so i was just wondering if anyone knows what'll be on the streets? Will there be Garda patrol and RSU vehicles hanging around the place? I heard we're getting a lend of some PSNI Water cannons; will these be on the streets or parked up to be freely photographed?


From what I'm lead to believe, the only moving traffic in the city centre will be public service and emergency vehicles (taxis, buses, ambulance, etc.) is this true? If so, seems like an ideal few days for some nice photography of El Garda gear.

DB10

goldie fish wrote: »

People need to accept(and probably do, but won't admit it) that this level of security is the same for any visiting world leader. The difference here being there are numerous assholes who have made actual threats to the visit of the 85 year old grandmother and her 90 year old husband. You won't have to go far on boards.ie to find them.

It is the activities of these groups, and their rabble rousing hangers on that cause the disruption, and always have. This sort of disruptive activity activity is the reason the British army patrolled the streets of NI. When the activity stopped, the BA went back to barracks. These groups want to cause trouble that would bring the troops back on the streets. It is the reason that in 1980 most of the Irish army spent their time on the border between the North and South, and in 2000 none of them did.

Don't forget that the Uncle of her ninety year old husband, then in his 80s, was killed by this type of organisation, while he was fishing in a small boat in sligo.

And they're all innocent nice people are they....:rolleyes:

Shooting children in the head and getting away without charge. Getting gold stars for "bravery" by Lizzie herself for Bloody Sunday.

Two sides to every story.

sdanseo

Deleted User wrote: »

Kinda off topic (though it does fit in with the thread) but does anyone here know how the Gardaì will be on the streets for this?

I enjoy photographing their stuff, so i was just wondering if anyone knows what'll be on the streets? Will there be Garda patrol and RSU vehicles hanging around the place? I heard we're getting a lend of some PSNI Water cannons; will these be on the streets or parked up to be freely photographed?


From what I'm lead to believe, the only moving traffic in the city centre will be public service and emergency vehicles (taxis, buses, ambulance, etc.) is this true? If so, seems like an ideal few days for some nice photography of El Garda gear.

My impression is there will be rolling roadblacks, so no particular streets will be closed off for a huge period of time. Imagine a scaled up version of a Garda Escort, with bikes blocking junctions etc.

The more literal meaning of Rolling roadblocks is a phrase more commonly used for another tactic - slowing traffic on Motorways down - probably haven't been seen here much as we haven't seen motorways. I was held up by one last year near the port tunnel - basically marked Garda vehicle(s) slow to a crawl in front of mono-directional traffic like on a motorway or dual carriageway and hold them up long enough to clear a decent gap, the escort convoy drives down the resulting 2/3 mile gap in traffic and then the Garda vehicles simply follow it off the motorway and normal service resumes with the vehicles behind simply speeding up again.

For escrots off the motorway, on normal streets (or "surface streets" as the yanks would call 'em) full closures will be taking place (again, from my interpretations only of what's been made public) but only for a few minutes at any given location. They clear a stretch, convoy passes, stretch opens. It's VIP transport, not a parade.

goldie fish

DB10 wrote: »

And they're all innocent nice people are they....:rolleyes:

Shooting children in the head and getting away without charge. Getting gold stars for "bravery" by Lizzie herself for Bloody Sunday.

Two sides to every story.

Two sides indeed.
Like the murder of a mother of nine.. hiding her body, so the family can't give it a decent burial...
Or the murder of a three year old and twelve year old boy...out on a shopping trip,

goldie fish

Deleted User wrote: »

Kinda off topic (though it does fit in with the thread) but does anyone here know how the Gardaì will be on the streets for this?

I enjoy photographing their stuff, so i was just wondering if anyone knows what'll be on the streets? Will there be Garda patrol and RSU vehicles hanging around the place? I heard we're getting a lend of some PSNI Water cannons; will these be on the streets or parked up to be freely photographed?


From what I'm lead to believe, the only moving traffic in the city centre will be public service and emergency vehicles (taxis, buses, ambulance, etc.) is this true? If so, seems like an ideal few days for some nice photography of El Garda gear.

I would suggest not photographing those policing, or their vehicles, on this occasion, unless you have the permission of those operating them.
Unless you have a long lens.

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

I would suggest not photographing those policing, or their vehicles, on this occasion, unless you have the permission of those operating them.
Unless you have a long lens.

I usually do ask first, but I doubt they'd care, would they? I imagine there'll be more photographers than Gardaì in the City this week.

Shield

goldie fish wrote: »

Two sides indeed.
Like the murder of a mother of nine.. hiding her body, so the family can't give it a decent burial...
Or the murder of a three year old and twelve year old boy...out on a shopping trip,

DB10 wrote: »

And they're all innocent nice people are they....:rolleyes:

Shooting children in the head and getting away without charge. Getting gold stars for "bravery" by Lizzie herself for Bloody Sunday.

Two sides to every story.

I want the politics kept off this forum. Save it for the Politics forum. No Politics in here

Terrontress

goldie fish wrote: »

I would suggest not photographing those policing, or their vehicles, on this occasion, unless you have the permission of those operating them.
Unless you have a long lens.

On what basis do you make that suggestion?

johnnyskeleton

It will be interesting to see the effect of it on the criminal justice system. In Dublin anyway, it's gonna cause all sorts of trouble in the courts with trials and such.

goldie fish

Terrontress wrote: »

On what basis do you make that suggestion?

My own experience. We never like people taking photos of us at work. You never know where the photos will end up.

goldie fish

goldie fish wrote: »

My own experience. We never like people taking photos of us at work. You never know where the photos will end up.

If memory serves me right, you're a Garda? Are ye guys not in front of cameras every day of the week anyway?

Not trying to be smart or anything, but as someone interested in the world of the emergency services (and photography), I've noticed that the uniform (and the Fire Service) is like a magnet for people taking photos.

Do Gardaì in general really care, at all? I mean, obviously no one wants a camera shoved in their face when they're trying to eat their lunch in the patrol car, or they're after falling over or anything potentially embarrassing, but in the course of regular duty, walking/driving around/scene of an accident, etc. do ye find other Gardaì care at all?

Shield

FYI: I think goldie fish claims to be an ex-Garda. I haven't ever seen him claim he's a serving member.

goldie fish

psni wrote: »

FYI: I think goldie fish claims to be an ex-Garda. I haven't ever seen him claim he's a serving member.

Thanks PSNI.

I am an ex member.

It would be easy to verify my "claim".

Esel

goldie fish wrote: »

Thanks PSNI.

I am an ex member.

It would be easy to verify my "claim".

If you are an ex-member, then it is misleading for you to state this:

goldie fish wrote: »

We never like people taking photos of us at work.

as it implies you are a serving member.

goldie fish

Esel wrote: »

If you are an ex-member, then it is misleading for you to state this:as it implies you are a serving member.

WHere do you get your pitchforks?
I'm quite tired of this witch hunt.

Zambia

Cant say I blame you.