France v Ireland

daveyeh

First Henry handballs us out of the world cup, now this!


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/france-scuppers-hopes-of-cut-in-bailout-interest-rate-154340.html


Why do they do dislike us so?

sensibleken

If they wanted to control the country they should have landed in 1798

mikom

Lol at Lucinda Creightons face.

Paul.C

sensibleken wrote: »

If they wanted to control the country they should have landed in 1798

owl wolftone, quality.

El Guapo!

Fukn French.
We should just leave the euro and ask can we be part of the USA.

steddyeddy

In fairness at a cermemony commemerating those who fought in ww2 they didnt ask the british people who helped liberate their country do you really care what a country like that thinks?

daveyeh

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairness at a cermemony commemerating those who fought in ww2 they didnt ask the british people who helped liberate their country do you really care what a country like that thinks?

I honestly couldn't care less.

orourkeda

Fack off sarkozy

sensibleken

daveyeh wrote: »

I honestly couldn't care less.

the extra 500 million a year that would come out of that 1% cut would have been nice though. Theyre pushing themselves further to a NET loss on the loan by increasing the chance of a default

My guess is they are up to one of two things.

1) They want piigs countries out of europe so as to create a club of large countries free from having to pay attention to smaller ones or

2) They want to bleed us dry.

alchemist33

I've never understood why France and Germany are so concerned about our commercial tax. Surely we're only dragging a small number of non-EU businesses away from them. Those businesses can make a big difference to us, but only a small difference to them.

It feels more like punishment, or their governments grandstanding so they can tell their electorates they're no pushovers with the wasteful Irish.

Paul.C

we could refuse but we wont as usuall

sensibleken

alchemist33 wrote: »

I've never understood why France and Germany are so concerned about our commercial tax. Surely we're only dragging a small number of non-EU businesses away from them. Those businesses can make a big difference to us, but only a small difference to them.

It feels more like punishment, or their governments grandstanding so they can tell their electorates they're no pushovers with the wasteful Irish.

Divilment. Nothing more or less. Its a political tool to show their electorate that they are not just bailing out these silly little countries. Its already been shown that France has less corporation tax than ireland

DingChavez

Blockade them with our tiny navy and fly a few of our propeller fighters in their airspace. They'll surrender.

daveyeh

DingChavez wrote: »

Blockade them with our tiny navy and fly a few of our propeller fighters in their airspace. They'll surrender.

And send in the FCA with their tatty uniforms and diabities.

nacho libre

I'm sure the lisbon treaty guarantees will ensure Sarkozy does not get his way.

I wonder could we have another go at the Lisbon treaty? Perhaps people have changed their mind again on it. Or is it that we gave the right answer last time so no further vote is needed?

sensibleken

nacho libre wrote: »

I'm sure the lisbon treaty guarantees will ensure Sarkozy does not get his way.

I wonder could we have another go at the Lisbon treaty? Perhaps people have changed their mind again on it. Or is it that we gave the right answer last time so no further vote is needed?

lets not drag this up again. this has precisely zero to do with lisbon. This is France acting as a sovereign nation trying to bully ireland into raising its rate in exchange for lowering the interest.

jaysus its like when people starting blaming lisbon for FF lowering the minimum wage

mathie

sensibleken wrote: »

the extra 500 million a year that would come out of that 1% cut would have been nice though. Theyre pushing themselves further to a NET loss on the loan by increasing the chance of a default

My guess is they are up to one of two things.

1) They want piigs countries out of europe so as to create a club of large countries free from having to pay attention to smaller ones or

2) They want to bleed us dry.

They're doing it to put the 5hits up Spain so they'll tow the line too.

Topper Harley

sensibleken wrote: »

Its already been shown that France has less corporation tax than ireland

My good friend Wikipedia tells me that the French corporate tax rate is 33.33%. That's the extent of my knowledge but in what way was it shown that France's corporate tax rate is lower than Ireland's?

Sanjuro

To be honest, fuck the ECB. Fuck the European Government. Fuck the German government, and fuck off Sarkozy. Sick of hearing about these cunts.

sensibleken

Topper Harley wrote: »

My good friend Wikipedia tells me that the French corporate tax rate is 33.33%. That's the extent of my knowledge but in what way was it shown that France's corporate tax rate is lower than Ireland's?

thats the nominal rate but with exemptions and allowances it was shown by PWC i think that the effective average rate turned out to be closer to 8%.

JBnaglfar

sensibleken wrote: »

thats the nominal rate but with exemptions and allowances it was shown by PWC i think that the effective average rate turned out to be closer to 8%.

Yeah, 8.2%. The French Agency for International Investment even advertises this point to attract investment. Source

Morlar

I think the days when Irish people automatically expected the EU to be the good guys are over.

Craebear

The Government will cave in to the French/Germans eventually. Our politicians have no spine whatsoever.

mconigol

Threaten to default.

That'll shut em up.

nacho libre

sensibleken wrote: »

lets not drag this up again. this has precisely zero to do with lisbon. This is France acting as a sovereign nation trying to bully ireland into raising its rate in exchange for lowering the interest.

jaysus its like when people starting blaming lisbon for FF lowering the minimum wage

We'll see soon enough if it's releveant. We were told the corporate tax rate couldn't be touched due to the guarantees. Sarkozy is playing hardball because his chances of re-election in France are not favourable. He has to be seen to swing to the right to win back support
It's inevitable we're going to have to give something in return for a reduced rate.
Most likely there will be a formula of words where we commit to a common consolidated tax rate across the EU. Which some people will be at pains to out is completely different to raising our corporate tax rate

Frank Black

I was looking for directions in Paris once and I went up to this French guy and asked if he spoke English (My French is poor).

He said "when I want to" and walked off.

Feckin Frencies.

Morlar

nacho libre wrote: »

We'll see soon enough if it's releveant. We were told the corporate tax rate couldn't be touched due to the guarantees. Sarkozy is playing hardball because his chances of re-election in France are not favourable. He has to be seen to swing to the right to win back support
It's inevitable we're going to have to give something in return for a reduced rate.
Most likely there will be a formula of words where we commit to a common consolidated tax rate across the EU. Which some people will be at pains to out is completely different to raising our corporate tax rate

Thing is this would do extraordinary damage to Ireland and be of only marginal benefit to the french & German economies. You would think a sense of common empathy among europeans would come in to play here. Considering, if it were not for the EU we would not have had the disastrous 'No bank left behind' policy which is the reason why we did not cut anglo off at the ankles in the first place. The sooner we default and pull out of the euro the better. It is the only way to avoid 'war reparations' levels of debt being forced on the Irish public.

zero19

God I hate the french

28064212

nacho libre wrote: »

We were told the corporate tax rate couldn't be touched due to the guarantees

Incorrect. We were told that nothing in the Lisbon Treaty made any changes to Ireland's control of its corporate tax rates. Which was exactly right.

Topper Harley

sensibleken wrote: »

thats the nominal rate but with exemptions and allowances it was shown by PWC i think that the effective average rate turned out to be closer to 8%.

JBnaglfar wrote: »

Yeah, 8.2%. The French Agency for International Investment even advertises this point to attract investment. Source

Those cheeky bastards.

Morlar

28064212 wrote: »

Incorrect. We were told that nothing in the Lisbon Treaty made any changes to Ireland's control of its corporate tax rates. Which was exactly right.

Your right. I can't find mention of blackmailing a country that's teetering on the verge of the economic abyss anywhere in that lisbon treaty.

PeakOutput

Alright I was always in the camp of getting abailout will be tough but necessary blah blah now I just think **** em lets default and if they have the balls to let us default we should have the balls to do it right now, we should get onto greece portugal spain and italy and all agree that we are all getting better deals or all defaults on europe. The people of france and germany need to be made realise that our bail out is as much about saving them as it is about saving us and we cant let them continue to be fed the bull**** from their politiicans that we are just trying to gouge the system

sure we would be ****ed for a while but iceland has shown that defaulting wont cause people to be dieing on the streets and can be done in a managed way. Britain would probably be on our side in the negotiaions and if we did default I am sure would help us as it is in their interests to have an economically strong neighbour

28064212

Morlar wrote: »

Your right. I can't find mention of blackmailing a country that's teetering on the verge of the economic abyss anywhere in that lisbon treaty.

Do you imagine that they were incapable of "blackmailing" us if the Lisbon Treaty wasn't ratified? What exactly would be different?

Gunsfortoys

Morlar wrote: »

I think the days when Irish people automatically expected the EU to be the good guys are over.

I remember a good few lads in here preaching, "I cannot wait for the IMF to kick ass!". Funneh ****.

Morlar

28064212 wrote: »

Do you imagine that they were incapable of "blackmailing" us if the Lisbon Treaty wasn't ratified? What exactly would be different?

I think the difference between then and now is that now Irish people are a lot less likely to presume that our EU partners have our best interests in mind, or that they would show a moment's hesitation in sacrificing us to serve their own interests.

Morlar

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I remember a good few lads in here preaching, "I cannot wait for the IMF to kick ass!". Funneh ****.

There is a world of difference between the IMF and the Ecb/EU.

sensibleken

nacho libre wrote: »

We'll see soon enough if it's releveant. We were told the corporate tax rate couldn't be touched due to the guarantees. Sarkozy is playing hardball because his chances of re-election in France are not favourable. He has to be seen to swing to the right to win back support
It's inevitable we're going to have to give something in return for a reduced rate.
Most likely there will be a formula of words where we commit to a common consolidated tax rate across the EU. Which some people will be at pains to out is completely different to raising our corporate tax rate

the guarantees showed that there would be no changes to corporation tax brought in under lisbon. That is true.

Lisbon is nothing to do with this in the slightest

alchemist33

I voted Yes in every Euro referendum so far, but if there was another tomorrow, I would seriously consider voting No. I know it might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but the attitude from some on the continent has led me to believe they really don't give two s**ts about us, and only really care about keeping the big boys happy.

J. Marston

Piss off, Sarkozy.

Fùcking midget.

Gunsfortoys

Morlar wrote: »

There is a world of difference between the IMF and the Ecb/EU.

I doubt if very many know the difference.

I heard the Lisbon treaty and Bono not paying his taxes are contributions too.

Join the sensationalism Morlar. It is rad.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Such cocks. Like France is a far more industrialised nation with far better natural resources weather and tourism. Of course we have to do mad stuff like 12.5% corporation tax to keep ourselves afloat

If they don't give us the loan at a better rate I say we cut the corpo to 10%

28064212

Morlar wrote: »

I think the difference between then and now is that now Irish people are a lot less likely to presume that our EU partners have our best interests in mind, or that they would show a moment's hesitation in sacrificing us to serve their own interests.

The question was what would be different now in our economic situation if we hadn't ratified the Lisbon Treaty. The answer is very little, and certainly nothing to do with whether or not we will be raising our corporation tax

carwash106

alchemist33 wrote: »

I voted Yes in every Euro referendum so far, but if there was another tomorrow, I would seriously consider voting No. I know it might be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but the attitude from some on the continent has led me to believe they really don't give two s**ts about us, and only really care about keeping the big boys happy.

What I don't get is why its up to France and Germany to tell us what "Europe" wants.
There are lots of countries in Europe, how come they even get a say, surely its the European Union(Or whatever its called now)

Why do they think they are the bosses of Europe, and are they in some way???

Dean820

We should all blast them with piss.

sensibleken

carwash106 wrote: »

What I don't get is why its up to France and Germany to tell us what "Europe" wants.
There are lots of countries in Europe, how come they even get a say, surely its the European Union(Or whatever its called now)

Why do they think they are the bosses of Europe, and are they in some way???

No they arent, much to their annoyance they are not dictators to europe and still have to follow the laws and mechanisms set out in the treaties.

I dont like how the EU is behaving but just because you dont like the road doesnt mean you crash the car.

our strategy has been wrong, we have been sucking up to france and germany when we should be forming relations with the smaller countries if we are to have proper influence.

im really really tempted to throw 2 fingers up and shout Fúck you to the whole EU project but I dont want to live in North Korea

Morlar

sensibleken wrote: »

im really really tempted to throw 2 fingers up and shout Fúck you to the whole EU project but I dont want to live in North Korea

You really think those are the two options, stay in the euro / EU or become north Korea2 ?

RachaelVO

daveyeh wrote: »

First Henry handballs us out of the world cup, now this!


http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/france-scuppers-hopes-of-cut-in-bailout-interest-rate-154340.html


Why do they do dislike us so?

The French don't even like each other, why should they like us???

cml387

The French:
You may have heard this before.

There is a story about a conversation between General de Gaulle, who, as president of the French Republic, telephoned his American counterpart Lyndon B Johnson, to inform him that France had decided to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty alliance.
Since its foundation nearly two decades earlier, Nato had had its headquarters in France. Now Nato would have to move.
Furthermore, de Gaulle added, it was his intention that all American service personnel should be removed from French soil.
"Does that include," Johnson is said to have replied, "those buried in it?"

sensibleken

Morlar wrote: »

You really think those are the two options, stay in the euro / EU or become north Korea2 ?

no thats what im saying, they arent the only options. neither is continuing to be butt fúcked and staying in the euro.

Im no expert in economics but I think pulling out and launching our own currency while we are in recession is not a good idea. Neither is continuing on the same path. So I dont know, the only things im sure of is that we have to fight the French and Germans on this and that economic experts dont know their arse from their elbow.

Topper Harley

cml387 wrote: »

The French:
You may have heard this before.

There is a story about a conversation between General de Gaulle, who, as president of the French Republic, telephoned his American counterpart Lyndon B Johnson, to inform him that France had decided to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty alliance.
Since its foundation nearly two decades earlier, Nato had had its headquarters in France. Now Nato would have to move.
Furthermore, de Gaulle added, it was his intention that all American service personnel should be removed from French soil.
"Does that include," Johnson is said to have replied, "those buried in it?"

God damn cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

nacho libre

28064212 wrote: »

Incorrect. We were told that nothing in the Lisbon Treaty made any changes to Ireland's control of its corporate tax rates. Which was exactly right.

Yes, strictly speaking the corporate tax rate had nothing to with what we were voting on, but assurances, rather guarantees, were given to allay people's fears that the rate wouldn't be touched. You know well if such assurances were not given the treaty might not have passed the second time around.


No doubt if we do commit to a common consolidated tax base , you'll be ready to point out the difference between it and increasing our corporate tax rate.