Stop the spread!!!

merlie

Hello,

Firstly if this is posted in the wrong place, please move it to the right one. Thank you.

I was watching tv earlier today and was annoyed very much by an advertisement I saw. This is the ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarpWrLn9Zo

Secondly here is the website: http://www.safefood.eu/

I really think they are sending out the wrong message here. When it comes to this ad and even the website, there is no mention of height, medical conditions, or other factors that might attribute weight gains. I also feel that this 'promotion' is really bad, in that it is set to one size only for women and men, and going over that say by one inch extra is considered over weight. My friend couldn't believe what he saw and read, he thought it was mad that someone could do this.

I was also thinking about people who are struggling with weight issues and those that are impressionable, may feel not so good after watching this ad.
We all want to be healthy but everybody isn't the same height, weight, build etc. It is all individual and by going to a doctor or someone who can professionally advise you on your weight is by far a better option.

I don't think a tape measure is the answer. It's just plain bad advertising! Full Stop!

What do you think?

Amtmann

I think that the vast majority of men with a 38" waist are obese or nearly obese.

marathonic

Saw the ad a few times yesterday. Personally, I think it can do a lot more good than harm.

The end result of the ad should be that most overweight people will feel a little down and will either get over it pretty quickly or else start living a healthier lifestyle.

It'll never be possible to create a promotion that will make obese people kick themselves into gear without hurting a lot of other obese peoples' feelings.

smiles302

I really like this campaign. Too many people think "obese" means absolutely huge when you don't need to be anywhere as big as the people on weight loss TV shows all seem to be to be classed as obese.

Obesity is a health risk. Something that needs to be talked about rationally.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Right can't see the vid but that webpage is an utter joke. If I had a 36inch waist I'd be obese(I'm 5'7) but that site tells me I'm a healthy weight? Good grief.

Feckin cross border bodies. Blame Sinn Fein

I was also thinking about people who are struggling with weight issues and those that are impressionable, may feel not so good after watching this ad.
We all want to be healthy but everybody isn't the same height, weight, build etc. It is all individual and by going to a doctor or someone who can professionally advise you on your weight is by far a better option.

True, some may not feel good about it. However it is better than them feeling good and getting fatter and fatter. And I'd wager most overweight people don't feel good about their bodies to begin with.

Losing weight needs to be taken down from its pedestal and normalised. There's a huge fear factor around it even though it is very easy to get to a healthy weight.

The reality is people don't go to their doctor about being overweight and many doctors won't bring it up when patients come in for other things. They're businesses so don't wanna lose their customers.

EileenG

Personally, I'm a lot happier with something that focuses on waist size or body shape rather than just weight. I know a guy who is 5% bodyfat and a competitive mountain biker and bodybuilder who has been refused health insurance because he is classified as obese.

El_Dangeroso

EileenG wrote: »

Personally, I'm a lot happier with something that focuses on waist size or body shape rather than just weight. I know a guy who is 5% bodyfat and a competitive mountain biker and bodybuilder who has been refused health insurance because he is classified as obese.

Is that even possible? I thought you'd start to die sub 6%.

boomtown84

you serious?
it's uncommon for bodybuilders to go on stage any higher than 5%.

Oryx

The general idea is a good one, make it simple, as in if youre over this waist size, youre probably overweight. Its easy to explain and understand. So far so good.

But I agree the website should do more than that. Telling me, or anyone, that Im a healthy weight based on nothing but my waist size is misleading. It doesnt take into account any other measurements or considerations, which a website could and should. If someone has taken the time to log on, you can do a hell of a lot more with them than offer that simplistic statement, which they already know from the damn advert.

El_Dangeroso

boomtown84 wrote: »

you serious?
it's uncommon for bodybuilders to go on stage any higher than 5%.

Yeah, I am.:eek:

That's shocking and is most definitely not healthy.

My mum's 59 and has had 2 kids who are now 20 and 21.

She now thinks she's overweight. Sure, she's not about to go running any marathons, but she's not obese. I definitely think the ad was a good idea, but they went about it the wrong way.

El_Dangeroso

I think you make a really good point. There is inevitable 'middle aged spread' to contend with. This doesn't happen to everyone, most asian populations don't get this for example, they get leaner as they age, so maybe it's some sort of metabolic issue. But nevertheless I think the damage is done.

I know several middle aged women trying to lose their 'middle-aged middles', they have lost enough weight to expose clear definition of their top ribs, which makes them look under-nourised and gaunt and yet they still have the large middle, there's always that saying that after 40 you choose between your face and your ass.:pac:

EileenG

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Is that even possible? I thought you'd start to die sub 6%.

Not for guys. Mind you, 5% is very tough to maintain for long. The guys you see in Muscular Development are usually around 3%, which is the limit. A lot of fitness models are around 5-7%

foobi

I could cause a huge stir and give ye bits of research to do with obesity and people who use the internet/forums, etc but i won't!

I think the campaign is good, i listened to it and then continued on to search the cupboards for something yummy to eat. It just doesn't scare me enough yet! Lol... as for the 37/38" waste for men, theres a different in measuring their waste where the jeans or trousers sit and measuring the real waste around the belly button. i know many men who have many inches difference between the two!

Bottle_of_Smoke

EileenG wrote: »

Personally, I'm a lot happier with something that focuses on waist size or body shape rather than just weight. I know a guy who is 5% bodyfat and a competitive mountain biker and bodybuilder who has been refused health insurance because he is classified as obese.

In the case of your friend I'd say the insurance company know fine well the guy is insurable but going by a measurement other than BMI would set a precedent and be unsustainable for them as most people don't measure by bodyfat.

Being obese but healthy is fairly uncommon. Its restricted mostly to people like bodybuilders/rugby players and they will usually be aware of BMI limitations(I'd say universally so in the case of bodybuilders) I'm a 27 myself from going to gym but I think it would take a lot of hard work and serious dedication to diet to get up to 30 without increasing my bodyfat percentage by an undesirable amount.

So whilst I agree it is better than just weight I just still think waist size alone is pretty meaningless. Surely height could have been factored in. And furthermore this one is poorly designed at the lower end too. I put in that I have and 18-inch waist and it tells me I'm a healthy weight

jaytuom

Every time something like this comes up there are complaints that it doesn't take into account genetic conditions/muscle mass and so on.

The reality is that most people who fall above the "safe" cut-off points for BMI/waist measurement etc are not bodybuilders or suffering from a genetic condition, they're just overweight.

A thing I noticed about the ad was that it was talking about "overweight" and not "obese". Being overweight is now the norm, which might be why people are so angry about the ad. What we perceive as normal is actually unhealthy, and we don't like hearing it, but I agree with marathonic that it'll do more good than harm.

jam_mac_jam

I think its a good ad, ok so it isnt saying in detail what makes each person overweight however it makes the point that we all need to worry about it. It cant go into loads of detail in a 30 second or one minute ad.

Bottle_of_Smoke

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yeah, I am.:eek:

That's shocking and is most definitely not healthy.

Just thing to remember is they only stay at their stage level for a very short period of time

smiles302

Not everybody gets bigger around the middle as they get older. Is it natural/healthy to be over 32in after having a baby?

I know my mum is the same size as I am and my granny would only be a 10/12.

32in is about a size 14 for a woman.. That's not small.

Transform

totally disagree - there is too much hand holding and an almost sorry no not almost a definite overweight/obesity contagion effect of so many shows displaying overweight/obese people (biggest looser, operation transformation etc) making out of shape an unhealthy people feel like they are 'not tooooo bad', cause look at mary there now she's only massive!!!

Here is a piece from an article i wrote relating to the ad (the ad is borrowing from waist/hip ratio averages)

===========================

Rule 1 – Do the belly fat check up

Are you one of those women that feel good about all other areas of your body but are not too happy about the wedge of fat that keeps peeping over your waistline? The amount of fat you carry on your belly has proven to be an even better measure of health and fitness than the old body mass index (a weight/height ratio). Experts are now using a waist to hip ratio as an indicator of health and the midsection is one of the most dangerous places for carrying extra pounds. In 2007 Cambridge University in the UK concluded that

“Indices of abdominal obesity were more consistently and strongly predictive of coronary heart disease than body mass index. These simple and inexpensive measurements could be used to assess obesity-related coronary heart disease risk in relatively healthy men and women.”



This is just one of a number of studies that have shown a strong link between where you store your fat and overall health. Visceral fat is the fat that is contained deep inside the abdomen and surrounding the organs and the higher this level the higher your risk of heart disease, diabetes and many other health problems.

To take this simple measurement you do it first thing in the morning and without pulling too tightly wrap a measuring tape around your waist so that it is right above your belly button. Remember don’t suck in your stomach and breathe naturally. Perform the same measurement method on the hips (go around the buttocks). You then divide the waist by the hip measurement. There are a number of calculators for this online if you wish to use them.

http://www.usnireland.ie/advice/advice_calculators_hip.asp

A WHR of 0.7 for women and 0.9 for men have been shown to correlate strongly with general health. The higher you go above these figures the increased risk of all degnerative diseases.

So just because you are skinny in other areas does in no way make you healthy and it’s important to do this little check-up to see where you stand. Plus you then have a measurement to repeat so you can check your progress when you apply the next few rules.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Transform wrote: »

totally disagree - there is too much hand holding and an almost sorry no not almost a definite overweight/obesity contagion effect of so many shows displaying overweight/obese people (biggest looser, operation transformation etc) making out of shape an unhealthy people feel like they are 'not tooooo bad', cause look at mary there now she's only massive!!!

I would agree with this alright - another problem is the people who are really overweight/obese are becoming pretty legion too. 26% of Irish men obese like. Moderately fat people see them every day and reassure themselves they're not the worst and can assure themselves they're ok.

the_syco

Tremelo wrote: »

I think that the vast majority of men with a 38" waist are obese or nearly obese.

This reminds me of the BMI sh|te, whereby EVERYONE over 6 foot 5" was obese, no matter what their weight/waist size was (they've since revised this).

So what would the healthy waist size be for someone of my height? You cannot use a "one size fits all" 37 inch waist size IMO.

Roger Marbles

smiles302 wrote: »

Not everybody gets bigger around the middle as they get older. Is it natural/healthy to be over 32in after having a baby?

I know my mum is the same size as I am and my granny would only be a 10/12.

32in is about a size 14 for a woman.. That's not small.

Actually mostly they do. Check out Gary Taubes new book and what he has to say about changes in lipoprotein lipase activity and distribution of bodyfat with age. It's remarkably consistent in older age.

Having a baby is a completely different issue.

Personally I think the ad should be lauded. It focuses on a way more tangible measure of body composition than a simple weighing scales. And people have come to accept those shown in the tv as of normal size when clearly they are not.

EileenG

the_syco wrote: »

This reminds me of the BMI sh|te, whereby EVERYONE over 6 foot 5" was obese, no matter what their weight/waist size was (they've since revised this).

So what would the healthy waist size be for someone of my height? You cannot use a "one size fits all" 37 inch waist size IMO.

As a general rule, your waist should be half your height if you are at either end of the scale. That's the rule they use for children.

Transform

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I would agree with this alright - another problem is the people who are really overweight/obese are becoming pretty legion too. 26% of Irish men obese like. Moderately fat people see them every day and reassure themselves they're not the worst and can assure themselves they're ok.

kind of relates to an article i did called your friends are making you fat.

Here is a section from it -


"In the study when one became obese his/her friends were 57% more likely to become obese too. You are 20% more likely if even a friend of your friend becomes obese and remarkably if a friend of your friends’ friend becomes obese you are still 10% more likely to follow suit. What they also showed was that the closer the relationship you had with the friend then the bigger the risk you too would become obese or the reverse. However, spouses did not appear to have as big an influence on each other as friends as people compare themselves to others of the same sex.

You can see this all the time with sisters in the same family and how they can be quite similar in their attitude to being healthy or overweight. The sisters learn to accept being out of shape or in shape due to the strong influence on one another. So if you have one pocket of friends and if their friends decide to get in shape and drop weight you are more likely to follow suit but if you are part of a group that constantly ‘battles’ with their weight and no real progress is being made then you are more likely to stay that way or become more overweight.

++++

For the record BMI is NOTHING like waist hip ratio and these measurements are again averages but for the vast majority if you are not falling under them you got stuff to take care of!!

Again i think there is too much sugar coating around this issue and people need to take wayy better care of themselves and have some personal responsibility

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/fqRdbQCGwPulUl8h3L2ptaePQIs8U5gaLCd-ncCELI9nzb-zuPpyCa2t*Dja7gzD4Hsr-dcely*Htb6Pi4asI-Zg8cmLDLPM/Your_Fat.jpg

Red Cortina

the_syco wrote: »

So what would the healthy waist size be for someone of my height? You cannot use a "one size fits all" 37 inch waist size IMO.

I think that the Waist to Hip Ratio that Transform mentioned earlier is a good measure TBH

Transform

Red Cortina wrote: »

I think that the Waist to Hip Ratio that Transform mentioned earlier is a good measure TBH

its been proven to be a better predictor of health versus a whole range of other methods

Duckee

There's one thing I don't get about the waist/hip ratio measure. I can't comment for men but it's fairly well known that women put on weight differently e.g. for me my waist has always been comparatively tiny and when I put on weight it goes straight to hips and legs. But for other women the fat goes on around the middle so their general shape is different. Being a fairly hippy lady, my waist/hip ratio gets lower when I lose weight, not when I put it on as my waist size doesn't change too much but I lose weight around the hips.

Also, right now my waist/hip ratio is in or around the so called ideal 0.7 but my body fat % is hovering around 30% (skinny fat!!!:rolleyes:). Now I'm trying to (slowly) reduce this percentage but according to the hip/waist ratio it's ideal and I shouldn't change anything.

My gut feeling is that these BMI/waist measurements etc are a good indicator for people to gauge whether or not their weight might be a problem, but I think being within a 'healthy' range on these measures and actually being fit and healthy are two different things and for who want to be 'fit and healthy' these measures then become less useful.

Davei141

Duckee wrote: »

There's one thing I don't get about the waist/hip ratio measure. I can't comment for men but it's fairly well known that women put on weight differently e.g. for me my waist has always been comparatively tiny and when I put on weight it goes straight to hips and legs. But for other women the fat goes on around the middle so their general shape is different. Being a fairly hippy lady, my waist/hip ratio gets lower when I lose weight, not when I put it on as my waist size doesn't change too much but I lose weight around the hips.

Also, right now my waist/hip ratio is in or around the so called ideal 0.7 but my body fat % is hovering around 30% (skinny fat!!!:rolleyes:). Now I'm trying to (slowly) reduce this percentage but according to the hip/waist ratio it's ideal and I shouldn't change anything.

My gut feeling is that these BMI/waist measurements etc are a good indicator for people to gauge whether or not their weight might be a problem, but I think being within a 'healthy' range on these measures and actually being fit and healthy are two different things and for who want to be 'fit and healthy' these measures then become less useful.

The women who get the fat around the middle just need to keep an eye on things more than those who are prone to putting it on around the hips/thigh from a health point of view. While their BMI would be the same their waist measurement be different, which is a better indicator than the BMI.

Your gut feeling is correct but i don't think either is trying to be anything other than a gauge. There would need to be some serious government backing for a period of a few years to really push the majority to be fit and healthy, but this is a welcome start.

boomtown84

just took a look at the ad there and i have to say i like it.
most people today who are overweight don't really care....sad but true.
it has to be drilled into people's heads that obesity and being overweight is not ok.
i think it's absolutely ridiculous that in this day&age ads like this are actually needed but i'm afraid they are......when people look in the mirror they don't see 'obese' no matter how big they are.

the problem i see with scare tactics like this is that they are not backed up with similar ads promoting healthy fresh food. They need to be one in the same imo. i don't think the link to the safefoods website is enough.

bottom line is fresh food should be subsidised and the sh*te should be taxed to the hilt.................in a perfect world.:(

metamorphosis

Just back to the 'where fat goes on' point hit above - fat on the hips and thighs is healthier than it sitting on the gut. Not saying that having excess fat is good, but if you do put it on on the hips/thighs, then that's a better sign than it going straight to the gut.

Inb my family it goes to the gut, although I could do with it going onto the thighs if im honest, they need more!

El_Dangeroso

metamorphosis wrote: »

Just back to the 'where fat goes on' point hit above - fat on the hips and thighs is healthier than it sitting on the gut. Not saying that having excess fat is good, but if you do put it on on the hips/thighs, then that's a better sign than it going straight to the gut.

Inb my family it goes to the gut, although I could do with it going onto the thighs if im honest, they need more!

You're right, thigh and ass fat is highly protective of diabetes. It may not look great but it isn't unhealthy.:)

Basuco

@ merlie, you said, "My friend couldn't believe what he saw and read, he thought it was mad that someone could do this."

Well darling I guess it is a little shocking at first but it's a fact that waist size is a better indicator of health than Bmi. Therefore, it's not bad advertising at all but an important campaign which I hope will curb the obesity epidemic. Stop the Spead.

shelbelle

as a nutritionist i think it is good that the issue of overweight and obesity is being raised. 66% of the irish population are in this category and the related health costs of associated health problems are costing the country millions of euro every year. however while the issue is being raised I dont think the campaign really gives encouragement to people on how to lose weight or provides any help or support systems to people who want to lose weight, so I think people will see the ad, it will remind them they are overweight and then they will do nothing about it! problem not solved. Meanwhile there are absolutely no jobs for nutrition graduates who could give practical advice and encouragement to people who want to lose weight....but that is another subject entirely

don ramo

they seemed very vauge about how take the measurement, surely it wouldnt have cost much (or anything at all) to say get someone from operation tranformation to demonstrate how to do it, my waist is where my belt is as far as im concerned, i might be an ididot for thinking that but it probably is the concensues, my waist is 35 inches, but im 15kg overweight, i have a gut sticking over it, but going by the ad i can still afford to put on another 2 inches,

most overweight people do just settle into a routine, i know id did for 3-4 years, now i find it hard to lose the bloody thing, multiple attempts at losing it, with summer coming in ill probably try another approach by seeking profession help, i find most community gyms not so good, so ill have to get someone that will actually asses me as me and not another person generating cashflow for the gym by paying annual membership and only going 30-40 times a year,

i remember hearing before that going by th BMI system that the entire irish rugby team are obese, which if true just shows how inaccuarte it is,

also it in the next week or two there will probably be an anorexia campaign launched,

smiles302

Embedding didn't work...

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAsD7SqmbQ&feature=player_embedded

They have a how to measure your waist ad

Oryx

@ don ramo They do tell you how to measure. Its the measurement at your bellybutton, not where your belt may sit, which with a lot of overweight guys is on the hips.

jaytuom

@ don ramo

"i remember hearing before that going by th BMI system that the entire irish rugby team are obese, which if true just shows how inaccuarte it is"

This is always used as the argument against standardised BMI/waist measurement. Someone who is healthy and fit and has a very high BMI (such as a professional rugby player) is usually monitored very carefully by nutrition and fitness experts and is well aware of the fact that those standard limits do not apply to them. The other 95% are overweight, and hiding behind the flaws in the BMI or waist measurement system doesn't change that.

The purpose of the ad is not to make obese people feel bad about themselves, it's to inform people that most of us are overweight – because a lot of people don't realise that they are (or don't want to think about it).

Lil' Smiler

As a sports coach, I welcome the initiative. I don't think enough is being done to highlight the growing problem of obesity.

Transform

plus most overweight/obese people are in denial and need to take more personal responsibility.

There is also the topic of pushing up health care costs due to the higher rates of e.g. cancer, heart disease, diabetes (all preventable) etc in people with excessive weight.

the_syco

smiles302 wrote: »

Embedding didn't work...

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAsD7SqmbQ&feature=player_embedded

They have a how to measure your waist ad

Cool. Height is somewhere between 194cm and 205cm, so the width at the half way bellybutton is 115cm (45 inches).

At 252 pounds, my BMI is now 29.1, so overyweight, but not quite obese. A year ago I was 266 pounds, with a BMI of 30.7 which was obese. Meh. Gym at least once a week, cutting down on pizza to once every month or two, and slashing the amount of sweets I eat, it's slowly going the right direction

HELM

This add made me angry the first few times I heard it on the radio over the weekend and then I realised why, I am exactly the type of person this campain is aimed at - I am over weight and basically need to start making changes before I become obese.
In my opinion the web site is not that great, the info on boards is much better, but I hope it has given me the push to realise that a few pounds over weight today will be a few stone in no time if I don't make some changes.
For me that's the point of this campaign and I hope it has inspired me to get healthy, although I have yet to measure my waist

Transform

HELM wrote: »

This add made me angry the first few times I heard it on the radio over the weekend and then I realised why, I am exactly the type of person this campain is aimed at - I am over weight and basically need to start making changes before I become obese.
In my opinion the web site is not that great, the info on boards is much better, but I hope it has given me the push to realise that a few pounds over weight today will be a few stone in no time if I don't make some changes.
For me that's the point of this campaign and I hope it has inspired me to get healthy, although I have yet to measure my waist

the info on boards is better because the people on here are not waiting 10 years to catch up with the latest research/info.

Congrats and hope more people like your good self get the much needed kick up the backside.

beegirl

Turns out my waist is about 4 inches away from where I thought it was all these years... and about 4 inches wider there too Bummer.... at least i know now though!!!

PS - was it just me who got that wrong, or do a lot of sources tell you that women should measure their waist as the narrowest part of the abdomen???

pocketvenus

I think the ad is a bit misleading but I can see what they are trying to do but I can give you my experience with the tape measure.

It tells you to measure from your bellybutton which I did and it told me I was heading for obesity.
Funny thing is I am only 7stone 10 and carry a small bit of weight on my tummy which I call my pot/ troll belly. I work out 4 days a week, walk alot rest of days and have a BMI of 20.5. I also fit into a size 8. I have what my nanny calls "good child bearing hips" which probably adds to the increased measurment.

Now only for I have sense and I could easily go now the route of an eating disorder but I know I am healthy my doc confirmed it. However with the increase in young girl and to some extent boys bordering or having esting disorders this new campign by safe food is going to lead to problems.

hollypink

Morning Ireland did a piece on this campaign this morning and had a spokesperson from bodywhys, the eating disorder association and also someone from the safefood organisation. The Bodywhys person said the campaign was too dark and the notion of something spreading like an infectious disease was making people feel stigmatized and also that they were sending the wrong message to overweight people with eating disorders by encouraging them to measure their waistline daily. The safefood person pointed out that they have never said to weigh yourself daily.

What do you think? I think its a good campaign, and being honest, I'd be in the target group myself.

Transform

Yes its a good campaign and we can all sit on the side line and think up ways to not offend people that need a kick in the butt or push people towards an eating disorder but the FACT of the matter is that ireland has one of the worst records of obesity/overweight in the world and there has been enough hand holding.


Look at the work Meme Roth is doing in america. Talks much sense and this is the way things are moving -

ncmc

I think the ad campaign is excellent. A lot of people think that overweight and obese are the same thing, they don't realise that overweight doesn't have to mean a belly hanging down to your knees! So a few overweight people may get insulted, boo hoo. Better insulted and enlightened than delusional and suffering from obesity related illnesses in years to come.

Do they recommend doing it first thing in the morning, like you would if you were weighing yourself? My belly can go in and out throughout the day depending on what I'm eating and drinking!

El_Dangeroso

Transform wrote: »

Yes its a good campaign and we can all sit on the side line and think up ways to not offend people that need a kick in the butt or push people towards an eating disorder but the FACT of the matter is that ireland has one of the worst records of obesity/overweight in the world and there has been enough hand holding.


Look at the work Meme Roth is doing in america. Talks much sense and this is the way things are moving -

I hate Meme Roth! She was born on the finish line and thinks she won a race. So now she feels justified in telling other people how to eat, and in criticising pretty much every overweight person in the public eye.

Although I agree with people needing to be made aware of what a healthy weight is, the tough love approach actually has a pretty crap reputation of doing anything good.

I was on a course recently to coach people how to make healthy lifestyle changes (whether it be eating healthier, moving more or quitting cigarettes) and a really good way to get people to never change is to lecture them or dictate what they should change without asking them.

As frustrating as the hand holding approach is, is does work an awful lot better than the 'Stop being such a fatty, fatty!' method.

cocoemma

this is soo embarrassing but Im 5 foot weighing about 12stone and I measured my tummy last weekend after I saw the add and my waist is 38 :O... im starting to eat right and work out.. but im deffo obese!! eeeekkk!

Transform

the best approach is to deal with the type and nature of the client in front of you.

Of course the tough love approach does not work for everyone and possibly only works for some.

Meme says and does much more right than wrong and the same goes for this ad