Web developer/coder or investor needed

Nipaco

Hi all,
This is my first post so I hope I'm not breaking those rules and posting correctly.
Ill keep this to the point.
Setting up new online web company with high potential. I need either an investor or someone with the web building skills of a coder.
There is no up front payment, but substantial profit share for help in getting this up and running. Thanks

jhegarty

This will not end well.

YouBuyLocal

You are about to get slated for being so presumptuous as to think your idea is worth the time and effort of a programmer, who fundamentally believes that he/she will be doing all of the work while you do all the 'easy business stuff'.

Just get a cheap office and bring in 3 or four interns. Tell them that depending upon what they achieve and how well you work together there is the possibility of earning in a stake in the company, a profit-share arrangement or a full-time job, depending on lots of variables and circumstances that you will have to work out wisely. Develop the site as much as possible and when you have it at a certain stage a developer may come in to baby-sit them in a profit-sharing arrangement to develop the sites more complex elements.

You'll get a decent response from http://www.gradireland.com and its free. You need a place to put them though so get an office.

Use open-sourced or free platforms if you can, there many open-sourced or platforms with dedicated communities that can really help your interns. The interns may develop over the period to be perfectly competent, especially because they will be learning as a team and you can then decide if they are worth giving an equity stake to or a share of the profits.

Good luck dude, and don't worry about some of the "advice" you are about to get

Nipaco

Genie Mac I wasn't expecting that. Youbuylocal, thankyou for your reply. My post maybe should have been more detailed. I have zero knowledge or experience in the web field and as such I need someone who does. A platform to me is at the train station and that's how bad I am. I am however very qualified for the industry concerned with the website. I don't presume that a programmer do all the hard work, believe me if I could do it confidently I'd be all over it. There is strong possibility for high returns on this and I will explain the idea only to serious parties in private, they can either say yes or no after that. I appreciate your help, and for the heads up :-)

Nipaco

Just checked out the gradireland site and perhaps that may be a solution for me. This is a start up with no funding yet and so cannot take on overheads this early. I think could start small scale with maybe templatemonster and such but even for this I would need guidance. Maybe a student just out of college would have the time to do it, or give me a few hrs a day for a week which would be paid.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Nipaco wrote: »

Just checked out the gradireland site and perhaps that may be a solution for me. This is a start up with no funding yet and so cannot take on overheads this early. I think could start small scale with maybe templatemonster and such but even for this I would need guidance. Maybe a student just out of college would have the time to do it, or give me a few hrs a day for a week which would be paid.

There are so many ways of having a website I would say we need an idea of the business idea. Is it selling online, advertising, community, and so on.
Just give us some idea.

Nipaco

Sure. In the long run (1 year) it is quite a large job but if we find ourselves doing it all it means the money is there to take on staff, overheads and of course profit. We can get started by just doing a small section (ten or so pages). I could describe its functionality as kind of how Facebook or a dating site works, ie, profiles and ability to upload and run your own profile, with ecommerce. I can't think of a site that does what I'm after exactly but I'm sure it can be done. Does that help any ?

YouBuyLocal

8 months ago I was in the position you are in now, almost exactly. Now I am developing the platform with 3 interns on board and a technical advisor that is one of the top young tech-entrepreneurs in the country.

You will get a lot of scepticism here, over whether a non-tech-person can build a tech-business. But a massive amount of all web-businesses is understanding the market, and therefore it is in the interests of tech-people to partner with people who understand niche industries.

You need to find an open-minded ambitious tech-person. That is hard if you are not in the right circles. It was complete luck for me. If you are driven enough though, and you are objective and dispassionate about the business model, market need & revenue streams, then you'll get there.

I wouldn't go to GradIreland if you don't have an office and can't be perfectly 100% clear on what you want someone to build. Interns are not self-motivated by nature, they need support and direction, and are not usually willing to work on a team for something they don't understand. They mostly want to gain experience and move on to a well-paid corporate position.

You could, on the other hand, go to all of the colleges and talk to some lecturers about your idea. They might help you find a decent final year student. Don't worry about telling people your idea (not on a forum obviously) but one-to-one you can tell anybody, it will only hold you back to be cagey about it.

Again, Goodluck

Nipaco

That I can see is some great advice, thanks a lot. And it only encourages me to hear a story like yours. A "make it happen" mentality will always do well. Congrats

DrivingTestTips: Brian

YouBuyLocal wrote: »

Interns are not self-motivated by nature, they need support and direction, and are not usually willing to work on a team for something they don't understand. They mostly want to gain experience and move on to a well-paid corporate position.

I love this! lol

I think YouBuyLocal has given you great advice there.

I program my websites now because I had problems with a programmer, so make sure you understand as much as you can and have the hosting account in your name, Url in your name and know what CMS is used "ie, CRE_Loaded".

If you know the CMS and it is an open source CMS you could move to another programmer with ease.

Nipaco

Your dead right there. I'm actually 18 months trying to do this. The first programmer I had was just outta college but lacked the motivation. His share by the business plan was worth 36k tr 1 all going well and would rise substantially on growth. How much more motivation do you need ? Turned up late and hung over for most our meetings. I got another since but they spent nearly 2 hrs of a 3 hour meet arguing with me over the collie scheme. Now as I said I know more about space travel than web building but seems to me you need to have built a car before you paint it. I had a full story board done and he didn't even bother looking at it. I can tell he doesn't have the time nor the interest. I already own the domains .ie .com .co.uk and have cms ( I got the cms he told me to get). So now I have a business model which is a no brainer, willing to share a lifetime profit percentage and can't find anyone. My next step I think is to put up a notice in gmit or nuig to try and get someone.
Thanks for all the very helpful advice guys

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Nipaco wrote: »

Your dead right there. I'm actually 18 months trying to do this. The first programmer I had was just outta college but lacked the motivation. His share by the business plan was worth 36k tr 1 all going well and would rise substantially on growth. How much more motivation do you need ? Turned up late and hung over for most our meetings. I got another since but they spent nearly 2 hrs of a 3 hour meet arguing with me over the collie scheme. Now as I said I know more about space travel than web building but seems to me you need to have built a car before you paint it. I had a full story board done and he didn't even bother looking at it. I can tell he doesn't have the time nor the interest. I already own the domains .ie .com .co.uk and have cms ( I got the cms he told me to get). So now I have a business model which is a no brainer, willing to share a lifetime profit percentage and can't find anyone. My next step I think is to put up a notice in gmit or nuig to try and get someone.
Thanks for all the very helpful advice guys

What CMS is it?

Nipaco

Haven't a clue. He sent me a link and I got it. Or maybe that's the server, or maybe they're the same thing. I'm clueless with this so am completely at the mercy of a good programmer/ coder. All I know is that if it was a building I have the entire building not just the rooms.

BostonB

YouBuyLocal wrote: »

You are about to get slated for being so presumptuous as to think your idea is worth the time and effort of a programmer, who fundamentally believes that he/she will be doing all of the work while you do all the 'easy business stuff'.....

I think work now, get paid maybe, is always going to be hard sell.

R3al

It may be difficult for you to recruit a programmer on a 'do the work for free and we will share the profits later' basis without giving some indication of what you are looking for from the programmer, the amount of work involved, ongoing support required etc.

Nipaco

True. But there is no maybe. If I had the money now I'd pay up front and get a company to do it. Say the work on those first pages cost 2,500. The person will be paid that if the business goes to pot ( very unlikely ) but might not get it for six months. The business is not essentially a web company but rather a "tool" to satisfy a need in this industry. So it's kind of like pickapro in which monies come from professionals. To anyone can get this job done I would set up a contract.... Minimum is paid for work, up to making 50,000 per year after for just keeping it ticking over.

YouBuyLocal

BostonB wrote: »

I think work now, get paid maybe, is always going to be hard sell.

This is what I know:

1. There is no recession online

2. Many of the opportunities are in niche markets whereby efficient communications can solve a problem never solvable before

3. Programmers have little or no way of knowing that these problems exist, the same way a physicist would know little or nothing about cattle grazing

4. The people that do understand the markets and the potential revenue are not tech-savy. They may be excellent business people, and they know exactly what they need, but they won't have a clue how to develop it

5. Programmers can understand the business models if creative entrepreneurs are given an opportunity to discuss it

6. Programmers can make a lot more money developing web-businesses as partners than as employed staff

7. All entrepreneurs work now, get paid maybe, not just programmers, and in the businesses I am talking about there is often more work for originator of the idea off-line developing the business than there is programming involved

Here is a guy who knew little or nothing about web-development and exemplifies what I am talking about:
http://www.whohasit.ie

http://www.allaboutbusiness.ie/denlive/entrepreneurs/Terry_Reihill

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/03/09/4003725-who-has-it-terry-does/

http://www.allaboutbusiness.ie/exclusive_videos/view/Who+Has+It

Nipaco

You've hit the nail totally. I couldn't have put my situation any better. I again recall a programmer saying to me if you go to a company they'll charge through the nose, or this whole thing could cost 50,000 to do (full site). He couldn't understand my answers. Truth is I don't care, if I make 100,000 I have no problem paying out 50,000. If I make a million I'll pay half a million. I'm not expecting anyone to work for free, and the won't be. However I would actually prefer a developer to have a personal interest in it, rather than it being just another job.
And therefore on the money side this is why I'm happy to pay hugely and not just a couple k for the job.
A bit of something is a whole lot better than a load of nothing.
Thanks a lot for the advice and I'll check those links out later today.

YouBuyLocal

Nipaco wrote: »

You've hit the nail totally. I couldn't have put my situation any better. I again recall a programmer saying to me if you go to a company they'll charge through the nose, or this whole thing could cost 50,000 to do (full site). He couldn't understand my answers. Truth is I don't care, if I make 100,000 I have no problem paying out 50,000. If I make a million I'll pay half a million. I'm not expecting anyone to work for free, and the won't be. However I would actually prefer a developer to have a personal interest in it, rather than it being just another job.
And therefore on the money side this is why I'm happy to pay hugely and not just a couple k for the job.
A bit of something is a whole lot better than a load of nothing.
Thanks a lot for the advice and I'll check those links out later today.

No problem. You will also get a lot of people saying "well maybe if you can't find a programmer or investment it is time to give up!?" That is nonsense, people don't want to take chances, and they look for excuses for not investigating something they don't understand immediately. It is their loss though. You will get there, you only need one.

Coincidentally, I think this would be a good time to go around the colleges as a lot of final year and masters students will be finishing up now and looking for an opportunity. You may be able to get away with paying them a basic wage, 200 per week + an equity stake/profit share deal.

Nipaco

I'll get it to happen one way or other. What is the qualification in a student the I need. Is it a programmer or coder etc... It's all very confusing to me when the tech speak comes in. For example I showed a site I looked to the first guy I had and he said was in joomla and started laughing cos it was wrong. I'd be happy to pay a wage of 200 plus equity if I could be sure I had the right person.

YouBuyLocal

I know what you mean.

A good idea would be to download prezi.com. There is a 30 day free trial and its relatively cheap after that. Use it to go through every single link on the site. Go through the site in minute detail, exactly how you want it developed, every piece of functionality (what it does), every feature. You don't need to know anything about software to do that, you should have a very good visual image of how the site should function and where the data comes from, what crowd-sourcing elements you'll have. Crowd-sourced is when the information on your site comes from users and it is not totally managed by you, you want as little manual moderation as possible, let users help to moderate if possible.

I am using Elgg (http://www.elgg.org) to develop my site. This is a powerful open-sourced platform. A lot of developers won't understand what the point of using this is, but force your hand on this. This platform will likely give you less problems and will look far more professional than if a coder developed it from scratch. Some of the features already developed as plug-ins are very cool, and would take weeks for a programmers to figure out how to develop them.

I have no idea what language you need the site developed in, you will have to leave that to the programmers. Elgg is written in php.

Talk to some lecturers, you never know, you might find some of them helpful.

I would also suggest that you lay down exactly how much work is required off-line to develop the business, so they know that it is a team effort and are not frustrated by the idea that they are doing all of the work for only half the profits.

EIREHotspur

Nipaco wrote: »

Sure. In the long run (1 year) it is quite a large job but if we find ourselves doing it all it means the money is there to take on staff, overheads and of course profit. We can get started by just doing a small section (ten or so pages). I could describe its functionality as kind of how Facebook or a dating site works, ie, profiles and ability to upload and run your own profile, with ecommerce. I can't think of a site that does what I'm after exactly but I'm sure it can be done. Does that help any ?

You say you need a website where people can:
- create a profile and log on and provide a service?
- similar to pickapro
- have e-commerce as in people paying money via website for service?

Nipaco

Something along those lines yes

Cianos

OP,
People have very good reason to be skeptical as you are admitting yourself that you know very little about websites, ecommerce and by the sounds of it, the internet in general.

Just because a niche is recognised, and there's an idea there to build a website that would solve some peoples problems, doesn't necessarily mean that the website will take off. There are a lot of variables and not having a good insight and feel for how the internet 'works' could send you down a long path before you find that out the hard way.

In saying all this, trivial matters such as finding someone good to build the thing should not get in the way of making it happen IF it has real potential.

If you want to PM me more info I'd be happy to give you my thoughts on it.

Nipaco

I hear what your saying. Like I said I'm a year and a half down the road and im aware of how likely it is for me to trip up.
I've been involved in the industry concerned with this site sine school days (20 yrs), so what I don't know about it isn't worth knowing. I have read some posts on other threads where people have asked for advice or who to go to for help. There where about 8 different people proposed, only 3 of whom I'd approve of with 2 others not even having the suitable qualification. So I'm looking at this as if it were me starting in my industry, I can see how easy it is to fall or make a mistake, but I also believe that this will work and im not going to back of. There is a way to get it done, I just need to find it.
There is limited risk in that I will know within 3 months if it is successful and so if it's a long road we'll be driving a Ferrari down it.
It's a worldwide opportunity so I don't think I would call it niche, it's specific more so.
There are two reasons why I think it will be successful. If a guy came to me and asked me to sign up I'd be all over it. It would really solve many problems for my personal business and create more revenue, exposure and open up more profit streams. The second reason is that there is no other site doing this. There are sites doing one or more aspects, but that's next to useless for my business.

BostonB

YouBuyLocal wrote: »

This is what I know:

1. There is no recession online...

I think you are missing my point. In terms of getting a developer, you need to look at it from their point of view. So your offer has to be better, then one they can get elsewhere, and additionally if there is no income upfront then you need to find someone who doesn't need the income immediately.

Finally in my experience, its not unusual for a developer to get a pitch from a startup. I've gone to interviews, for jobs or contracts, though agencies, only to find its a startup doing a pitch, completely unrelated to the job/contract advertised. My point about this, is you have to stand out, from these type of offers. Because Developers become to immune to it after a while. TBH it can be hard getting developers even when you are offering a decent salary!

I guess my point is, perhaps you need to look at this from the POV of the business of Developers. Rather than POV of your business.

Nipaco

That's a very good point. And I guess with a lot more people thinking of themselves as being entrepreneurs etc there is more bull around than quality. This is a problem as it must be very difficult to spot the genuine article.
All I can say is that getting this going means a lot to me and so I don't see it in terms of hrs work or how long it takes. Whether it's two weeks of non stop slog or 6 months it's all the same to me. And so the monetary reward isn't reflective of the amount of work. For example for all I know this could be started in a weekend.
Whoever gets it going would continue making money for the life of the company. So maybe for that two weeks work the guy gets ten grand in two months. And from then on has nothing to do but advise the staff and maybe take forty to fifty thousand a year for it.
I know I'd be up for an opportunity like that.
You don't need to take it on blindly, have a look at the business and you can make up your own mind. I will only do this in person and with suitably able people with the time and motivation to get it done

EIREHotspur

I understand your need to be vague in order not to give away the game as regards your idea.

It makes it very difficult for anyone to know what skills your seeking in order to build your website.

If you say it would be like Facebook, that has a lot of big features.
Would your users have to be able to show certain users on a friends list for example or would they be seen by anyone visiting the website like pickapro.

Do you want users to be able to:
- Register on your website themselves or over email like pickapro
- You update their pages/They update their page

Do you need a mobile version of the website, do you need adverts, audio, videos?

Use a few for examples to give a better idea.
Pickapro isn't a very good website.......bad design, but easy enough to impliment I think.

Nipaco

I agree regarding pickapro, it's just an example. The total site will have all of what you mentioned in the finish. But right now can do with post or pm ability and ecommerce

nuttlys

Nipaco wrote: »

There is limited risk in that I will know within 3 months if it is successful and so if it's a long road we'll be driving a Ferrari down it.
It's a worldwide opportunity so I don't think I would call it niche, it's specific more so.
There are two reasons why I think it will be successful. If a guy came to me and asked me to sign up I'd be all over it. It would really solve many problems for my personal business and create more revenue, exposure and open up more profit streams. The second reason is that there is no other site doing this. There are sites doing one or more aspects, but that's next to useless for my business.

If your idea is as great as you say, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic manner, then you should hand in a business plan and see if EI will give you funding for equity, then you could just pay for a development company to do it.
http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/funding-supports/Company/HPSU-Funding/

Nipaco

I have considered that and it's certainly something I will take up as I believe you can already be going a year to 18 months to still qualify. I admit I'm also skeptical about pitching to strangers as I then have no control. my plan was going grand (ish) with the taking on of the first programmer, get the market key ( there is one ) and then it's tied up. I could then pitch to EI. I believe it's something that some government departments might see benefit from. It certainly wont break any employment records, few interns maybe as suggested earlier. So I'd like to have some more work done.
Thanks a lot for the input

EIREHotspur

Nipaco.....for now you need a Web Developer.
A Programmer is someone who develops software from the bottom up.....you don't need one of them.

Your website initially can be built by anyone who knows their way around Dreamweaver and PHP/MySQL.

The only tricky part is the e-commerce bit as depending on how you want to take payments, that can be tricky to set up.
You can go the all in way like paypal to take payments
or
You have to go to your bank and Set Up a Merchant Account.

Take it from me that unless you need very tricky features, your website is easier to set up initially than you think.

Also, who says you can't hire somebody with different skills later down the road if it makes money.

PCPhoto

Nipaco ... I'd be in a similar position, have sat on ideas/concepts for years afraid to tell people for fear that those with the money can develop it better/faster.

also I've tried getting quotes from companies and many of them want extortionate money and plenty of it up front - makes you feel like they don't believe the idea/concept or the person telling it, one particular idea that I have I can see slowly developing by other companies.

my main problem is that I work 6 or 7 days a week so don't have the time to dedicate to any of the ideas/plans.

I was planning on taking August and September off this year to try get something done - but so far since I announced August/Sept I wont be working - other people have asked me to help out with something they are working on or the GF wants to go on holidays, family members are giving birth, others are moving abroad... there are engagements, weddings and birthdays all popping up....seems like everyone wants to stop me doing these projects (I have 2/3 projects which will compliment each other ...like ebay/paypal does ...not a similar site)

Nipaco

Eirehotspur, I think you are bang on the money with that.

Pcphoto, let me tell you my story very quick, had saved up for this project and was just getting started. With my job I could force it all into 3 days and have the rest for the site. My daughter was born in Feb which was grand but my wife was diagnosed with cancer in May. So had to quit my job to stay home for two years and put everything on hold. Now I'm not putting this out there as a big sob story, I'm trying to give you some encouragement. There will always be something trying to break you, hold you back or challenge you. You have to say I'm either going to lie down, or I'm going to fight it and win. There is always, always a way.

EIREHotspur

Well personally speaking, I got some quiet similar things in common with both of you.

I have a few ideas but luckily I have the knowledge to be able to put my plans into action this year.
Initially ten years ago, I had a great idea....developed it and performed it and saw somebody else doing it the following year and making around 2k per performance from something inferior software-wise.

I have used my time over the years to teach myself web design and other tech stuff, I am no expert on anything but I know a good bit about most aspects of Web Development, Multimedia, Photography & Video.

We are moving into a time where a lot of us will have to make money ourselves instead of looking for the jobs that were there in the past.

Remember you don't need a website with bells and whistles to test the water.....start smaller and then if it's a hit you got more money to improve.

Whomever you two decide to go with, make your choice carefully.

Nipaco

Ok let's get down to business here. If anyone has any interest in collaborating on this, or could forward me someone who might, and can handle the web side of things, please pm me and we can arrange to meet to discuss it. You can decide for yourself after that whether to pursue or not. Thanks to everyone, you provided me with some really good advice and support, I appreciate it.

HellFireClub

Nipaco wrote: »

True. But there is no maybe. If I had the money now I'd pay up front and get a company to do it. Say the work on those first pages cost 2,500. The person will be paid that if the business goes to pot ( very unlikely ) but might not get it for six months. The business is not essentially a web company but rather a "tool" to satisfy a need in this industry. So it's kind of like pickapro in which monies come from professionals. To anyone can get this job done I would set up a contract.... Minimum is paid for work, up to making 50,000 per year after for just keeping it ticking over.

You are obviously very new to starting up a business when you are coming out with stuff like, "True. But there is no maybe." This kind of nonsense is well and truly knocked out of anyone with even the minimum of self employment business experience who has cut their teeth along the way...

If there is no "maybe", then there is no need for the risk sharing that you are inadvertently proposing on here, so go out and borrow or earn the seed capital for this part of the project yourself, pay for what you need done up front and keep the profit for yourself instead of pushing the risk onto a software developer who could put months of their life into this project for no reward whatsoever at the end of it should it not be successful.

I was in your position 2 years ago and spent the last 2 years learning the necessary web development skills, through free online study, buying books and asking loads of questions on here and on other relevant fora on the internet.

What you are trying to do here is shift the financial risk onto someone else, when the risk as an entrepreneur is, and should always be, taken on by you, the promotor.

I don't buy this thing at all above where you are claiming that the person will be paid 2.5K in 6 months time or whatever if the project doesn't work... In any event, 2.5K represents about 10%-20% of the work that is probably required for this kind of a data driven project, so offering 2.5K to someone in 6 months time is essentially throwing crumbs at them, if you are even in a position to pay it in 6 months time. The value of what you are looking for here is not even remotely close to 2.5K, depending on final specification and delivery date.

What you need to do is save up for a couple of months and save a few grand, borrow against it and pay for what you want done up front (final payment when solution is delivered, 20% up front). If it's a safe bet as you claim it is, you'll be well rewarded for it and can pay off your loan very quickly and go on and make loads of profit...

HellFireClub

HellFireClub wrote: »

You are obviously very new to starting up a business when you are coming out with stuff like, "True. But there is no maybe." This kind of nonsense is well and truly knocked out of anyone with even the minimum of self employment business experience who has cut their teeth along the way...

If there is no "maybe", then there is no need for the risk sharing that you are inadvertently proposing on here, so go out and borrow or earn the seed capital for this part of the project yourself, pay for what you need done up front and keep the profit for yourself instead of pushing the risk onto a software developer who could put months of their life into this project for no reward whatsoever at the end of it should it not be successful.

I was in your position 2 years ago and spent the last 2 years learning the necessary web development skills, through free online study, buying books and asking loads of questions on here and on other relevant fora on the internet.

What you are trying to do here is shift the financial risk onto someone else, when the risk as an entrepreneur is, and should always be, taken on by you, the promotor.

I don't buy this thing at all above where you are claiming that the person will be paid 2.5K in 6 months time or whatever if the project doesn't work... In any event, 2.5K represents about 10%-20% of the work that is probably required for this kind of a data driven project, so offering 2.5K to someone in 6 months time is essentially throwing crumbs at them, if you are even in a position to pay it in 6 months time. The value of what you are looking for here is not even remotely close to 2.5K, depending on final specification and delivery date.

What you need to do is save up for a couple of months and save a few grand, borrow against it and pay for what you want done up front (final payment when solution is delivered, 20% up front). If it's a safe bet as you claim it is, you'll be well rewarded for it and can pay off your loan very quickly and go on and make loads of profit...

Harsh....but true, especially the bit about shifting the financial burden. Thats the reason its hasnt been developed yet. The cold hard truth is it comes down to money, and you need to invest to make it happen. Maybe you should pitch an investor instead of a developer, because what your looking for is a developer who is also an entrepreneur. This is a small pool you are searching I think.
Get 5-10K off an investor/partner and pay for the development theres probably 10 guys on boards that will quote you for it.

HellFireClub

Deleted User wrote: »

Harsh....but true, especially the bit about shifting the financial burden. Thats the reason its hasnt been developed yet. The cold hard truth is it comes down to money, and you need to invest to make it happen. Maybe you should pitch an investor instead of a developer, because what your looking for is a developer who is also an entrepreneur. This is a small pool you are searching I think.
Get 5-10K off an investor/partner and pay for the development theres probably 10 guys on boards that will quote you for it.

Or another way of approaching it would be to scale it right back to the bare minimum of an IT exercise that it can be started off as and taking the initiative to deploy some kind of a solution yourself by picking up the skills and the knowledge yourself, which is all available out there on the Internet for free!

These things always tend to be 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. Trying to lure someone into a project like this on some kind of a wooly assurance regarding an absolute minimum remuneration in 6 months time I think is fairly outrageous to be honest. I got involved in one such project once on these kind of terms, my time and energy was taken up by an idiot immature arseh*le and what he claimed was a "no brainer" idea, (which it was had he had the balls and the discipline to actually see it through from start to finish!), then the person involved decided not to proceed with it, completely wasting my time.

It's rare I'd quote George W Bush, but as the old saying says: "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"...

Kinetic^

I have to agree with the last couple of posts. If you were 100% sure that this is going to work, you would have got funding from either the bank or another investor. With no financial input from you, it gives you an easy out if something goes wrong and shows a lack of commitment imo.

HellFireClub

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I have to agree with the last couple of posts. If you were 100% sure that this is going to work, you would have got funding from either the bank or another investor. With no financial input from you, it gives you an easy out if something goes wrong and shows a lack of commitment imo.

What it also does, and I've witnessed this happening one person I know, is that he did have the financial resources to get his solution made for him, but he didn't have any real knowledge of what was going on in the background, and he became completely and totally reliant upon the specialist knowledge of the other person who became involved (at huge cost I might add).

You'll have a much stronger, more versatile business in the short to medium term if you take the time to break through your IT knowledge gap and learn for yourself, the nuts and bolts of what is happening at IT level within your business... You can easily envisage a situation emerging where someone else puts a solution in place for you and you can't do simple edits to your own site without having to delegate the complete task to someone else, next thing, an invoice will arrive in for you that you won't be happy with, you feel it is excessive given the time involved or whatever, can't/don't/won't pay the invoice, a falling out ensues and the "delete" button is hit for your site and you will be right back to where you started.

This might never happen of course, but it has happened to me once where I got drawn into a project that was never planned to launch due to a gobshyte at the helm of it, and I also saw a similar but more deeper type dispute emerge with a guy I know and it almost put him out of business, so thread very carefully is my advice and never find yourself in a situation where you are having IT work done for you but are IT illiterate, you will only have rings ran around you...

EIREHotspur

Well I'd have to disagree with the first post hellfire had and agree with the second.
What you said about the need to learn the IT is right on the money, from his answers I don't think he wants to.
What I tell people who I build database websites is that they can update it easily.....ie if you can write an email then updating is just as easy for them to do.

Despite what it seems and from the questions I asked him, what he wants really isn't rocket science.

He wants a database driven website with a login system for users (I remember the week I learnt myself how to do that......looooooooong week).
He just needs an initial bit of money to hire a developer to build it with an eye to adding more features as it goes along.
The only big decision for him is how he would want to go with the payments, Paypal or Merchant Account.

Talking of Seed capital etc is inflating and talking up what he actually needs.

HellFireClub

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Well I'd have to disagree with the first post hellfire had and agree with the second.
What you said about the need to learn the IT is right on the money, from his answers I don't think he wants to.
What I tell people who I build database websites is that they can update it easily.....ie if you can write an email then updating is just as easy for them to do.

Despite what it seems and from the questions I asked him, what he wants really isn't rocket science.

He wants a database driven website with a login system for users (I remember the week I learnt myself how to do that......looooooooong week).
He just needs an initial bit of money to hire a developer to build it with an eye to adding more features as it goes along.
The only big decision for him is how he would want to go with the payments, Paypal or Merchant Account.

Talking of Seed capital etc is inflating and talking up what he actually needs.

Couldn't agree more with you, I've a very large DB site now that I built and now manage, I still (although it's rare it happens these days, I'm glad to say!), but I do occasionally find myself close to tears with it the odd time/pulling my hair out, and the toil and pain of overcoming one barrier after another, you can't describe it, but as someone who hadn't a chance of coming up with the $$$ to get it done by a consultant or an outsourced provider, and having had my hand bitten once to often as to know better than to get someone else involved, it was either knuckle down and throw myself in at the deep end and just wade through it day after day week after week, or else face the fact that it was never going to get off the ground...

Having mentioned the hardship of learning something new and the toiling and hassle that comes with it, equally you can't match the feeling you get/adrenalin rush, after you create your very first DB, get a few products into it and then seeing the data on your actual web page after breaking your way through connection strings, membership, databinding, SQL sorting, etc!

:D:D

TristanPeter

Hi All,

I was reading through this thread as I am also trying to get an online business off the ground. Very interesting by the way. I have been at it for about 8 months now and I'm still a ling way off. Recently I applied for an EI Innovation Voucher and I was awarded it. It's not money but it allows me to approach "knowledge providers" and ask them to help with the project in exchange for €5000 worth of chargeable labour from EI. So far I have approached a few third level institutes. I have had some communication but the only enthusiastic one seems to be Sligo IT. I'm not looking at this as a solution to my technical difficulties but more as a bonus in that I hope to use it to tweak and test the site before going live; perhaps add a few features etc. Anyway OP, maybe you should apply for one. It can't hurt. I can't comment on the real world value of the voucher yet as I'm still in the process of "spending" it. If it goes well or if I turns out to be at all useful I'll fill you in.

HellFireClub

TristanPeter wrote: »

Hi All,

I was reading through this thread as I am also trying to get an online business off the ground. Very interesting by the way. I have been at it for about 8 months now and I'm still a ling way off. Recently I applied for an EI Innovation Voucher and I was awarded it. It's not money but it allows me to approach "knowledge providers" and ask them to help with the project in exchange for €5000 worth of chargeable labour from EI. So far I have approached a few third level institutes. I have had some communication but the only enthusiastic one seems to be Sligo IT. I'm not looking at this as a solution to my technical difficulties but more as a bonus in that I hope to use it to tweak and test the site before going live; perhaps add a few features etc. Anyway OP, maybe you should apply for one. It can't hurt. I can't comment on the real world value of the voucher yet as I'm still in the process of "spending" it. If it goes well or if I turns out to be at all useful I'll fill you in.

I ran into this same web of beaurocracy when looking for funding, the story seems to be similar, loads of training and courses and swopping stuff and all sorts of codding, f*ck all of what you actually do need though which is seed capital. Been there with the CEB's and the rest of them.

The only thing you need to get your head around when you are doing something like this at the moment in Ireland is that you are completely and utter on your own. Forget about state agency start-up grants, you will go through a year of filling out forms, meetings, bullsh*t and nonsense and at the end of the day you will not be a step closer to where you want to be.

But if you can learn the skills to get a site up and running and you can muster together a bit of cash to pay for Realex, web hosting, any stock you migh need to acquire, etc, you might just get your idea to market.

But as for any assistance whatsoever from state agencies, just forget about it...

HellFireClub

Here's an example of exactly what I'm talking about:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0505/breaking4.html

The government will throw money at people overseas, who might create jobs (jobs like Paddy put the sticker onto the Dell box there for us, would ya like a good little lad?!?), but ignoring people wih excellent business ideas who are already here and costing the state 10K a year in benefits, who end up on welfare or else emmigrate, go figure!

HellFireClub

HellFireClub wrote: »

I ran into this same web of beaurocracy when looking for funding, the story seems to be similar, loads of training and courses and swopping stuff and all sorts of codding, f*ck all of what you actually do need though which is seed capital. Been there with the CEB's and the rest of them.

The only thing you need to get your head around when you are doing something like this at the moment in Ireland is that you are completely and utter on your own. Forget about state agency start-up grants, you will go through a year of filling out forms, meetings, bullsh*t and nonsense and at the end of the day you will not be a step closer to where you want to be.

But if you can learn the skills to get a site up and running and you can muster together a bit of cash to pay for Realex, web hosting, any stock you migh need to acquire, etc, you might just get your idea to market.

But as for any assistance whatsoever from state agencies, just forget about it...

Again, harsh....but true
I was at an event last year where someone was questioning EI's financial input on startups. I advised her that you can't rely on handouts from EI, the only person you can rely on in this situation is yourself. There was a representative beside me from EI, and she very nicely put it that there wasn't a lot of funding available at the moment.
So I imagine there is a lot of people competing for very little, and all the messing may well sidetrack you off more important things when starting a business or indeed thinking of better solutions to get your cashflow.

srsly78

EI are awful at spotting real talent. I approached them 10 years ago with a simple plan and they had no interest at all. They gave a similar company a big grant tho (software), and the guys just blew it all on expensive monitors and chairs etc. 1 year later company was bust, and all the expensive gear disappeared out the back door. Our tax-money hard at work!

AndyJB

Hi All,
Just been following all your comments with interest. I’ve been on both sides of the fence as an investor and business start-up. I’ve even sat on that fence once or twice!

As he/she says themselves, Nipaco has the “winning concept” and needs help getting it to market. A web person is needed and Nipaco has the industrial experience that the concept revolves around, but it will take more than knowing the industry and a site to make money on the web.

What about getting the word out there? It’s pointless having the best site in the world if no one knows about it. How will you manage the back office support?

Nipaco, take a step back for a moment. What you’re asking is for someone to give you their money to build a concept that you say is a world beater.

What hard cash/funds are you putting into the venture? You’ve got the domains and story boards put together already but that’s small beans compared to asking someone to commit their time for free for an unspecified time to build your site.

Nipaco wrote: »

Say the work on those first pages cost 2,500. The person will be paid that if the business goes to pot ( very unlikely )...

How?

Nipaco wrote: »

...but might not get it for six months.

That’s an annualised rate of €13 per day! My sons’ baby sitter wouldn’t get out of bed for that!

What I would suggest you do is………

1) (as already covered by previous posters) get a handle on what web technologies you actually need and how they will work for you. You seem to lack the basic knowledge and that alone will walk you into trouble. When some web head is talking to you, how will you know they're not talking complete rubbish?

2) If not already done, put a structured business plan together. Tell the story of who you are, where project has come from and what you want to achieve. Also include what you’ve done to date with concept and don’t forget the very important cash flow projections.

3) Despite all of their rhetoric the banks are not lending to anyone. So, despite your previously stated and other posters objections or reluctance to approach EI/Local enterprise boards I believe that that would be the best route for you to proceed. If you have a sound idea they’ll organise a mentor (FOC) for you. They may also offer research funding and/or partial funding to get your web elements up and running.

You’ve been plugging away for the past 18 months on your project so you should chase any posibility of getting it off the ground. It would be a shame not to contact and talk with either/or both of the above orgs. The more people you talk with the more you'll learn.

Have a look at the following for info...

http://www.dceb.ie/financial-assistance/types-of-grants

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Start-a-New-Business/Supports-for-High-Potential-Start-Ups/

Best of luck.

Nipaco

Hellfire,

I think you have put too much time on writing your post and not enough on reading it. And I find your content insulting. I don't wish to partake in a slanging match, I will deal with some of your comments and leave it at that.

"Minimum self employment experience" - 18 years
"Inadvertently proposing" - I'm actively proposing
"learn web skills" - I would assume that an it qualification is one gotten with time, hard graft, and talent. To attempt this myself even after a year, well I'd be an idiot and deserve a good kick in the hole.
"could put months into it, no reward" - another poster already answered this for you.
"shift financial risk" - the risk on an investor is financial, that's what they do. The risk on developer is time, not money.
"safe bet as I claim it is" - Nothing is safe, and I don't recall saying this. If I did please set me straight. I set in my opinion it's a no brainer, very different.
"scale back" - also answered by another poster.
"to lure someone..." - I refuse to respond to such a terrible statement.

If you should like to continue posting, please do so. However I would prefer comments that relate appropriately to the discussion, and which don't insult.
Thank you

Nipaco

"babysitter gets paid more than 13 per day"

As I said, the initial pages and features could for all I know be done in a weekend. 2,500 divided by 3 is not 13.
Again as already said, there is no money upfront or at all right now. If in the event the project falls, I will pay this.
I'm trying to be as black and white as I can here. There's no hidden agenda or bull. It is what it is. If you're interested pm me. If not, I appreciate your input and advice.