Real time displays on Dublin Bus

irishguy

teol wrote: »

There is a difference between signs and LED displays. The Irish names on signs are in italics and there is a distinct difference between the languages. This does not work on LED.

Also there is a precedent for not having bilingual signs in this country:



and also at Dublin Airport.

I agree its only because this is new people are even thinking about it.

I dont think I would be totally confused, it just makes is less clear. Most so for people who dont live in the area and arent even too sure of the english version of signs not to mind the Irish version.

Cathaoirleach

Valencia uses the exact same RTPI system in both Valencian and Spanish, provided by INIT Germany. The language flicks between languages every few seconds and nobody has problems reading them. In fact, most of the displays show Valencian only, even though it is a minority language in a Castillian-dominated city. Their Official Languages Act closly matches Ireland's.

As the RTPI system was already bilingual-ready before it reached Ireland, the only extra cost is providing the Irish translations for the database, which would be up to Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann, or any other operator that wishes to add their routes to the database.

The naysayers here keep coming up with flawed reasons as to why the RTPI shouldn't be bilingual (cost, readability), and also ignore the legal requirements of the OLA in relation to signage.

It seems to me that their arguments actually stem from a deep-rooted hatred for the Irish language and a resentment of seeing the language used anywhere in the public domain.

noelfirl

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

It seems to me that their arguments actually stem from a deep-rooted hatred for the Irish language and a resentment of seeing the language used anywhere in the public domain.

Very carte blanche there. In the situation of these signs I would say that most disregard for the bi-linguality stems from this complaint and this resulting follow up article suggesting the system introduction might be delayed:

"There are regulations with regard to the use of Irish on the signage of public bodies," he said. It's anticipated that the changes could add more to the cost of the final project as well as delay the launch date.

In the end, there doesn't appear to be a delay to the introduction of the system (at least not that it is not being "launched" one day, instead is just coming into operation as and when the signs are installed), but most people would have been aware of the threat of delay as being real, considering that Dublin's new tourist signs were significantly delayed whilst they were rejigged to include prominent Irish. Indeed some of those signs were apparently erected and then taken down again.

So arguably I'd say most people are simply pissed off with the OLA being used as a stick, or threat thereof, to delay the introduction of improved infrastructure. The return fire argument of course being that if officials, agencies and contractors made more effort from the start to comply with the OLA these difficulties wouldn't be encountered. Fine.

From my own perspective, I'd question the point, implimentation and way the OLA is used and say that I think it's a useless shill. An exercise in futility that a officialdom can give itself a pat on the back and say that it made the effort to save Irish by requiring the introduction of the above and other examples of token bilinguality, to the immediate benefit of nobody. How about some original thought put into addressing the deficit of teaching and learning of Irish at school level rather then on little trinkets like "Fan taobh thiar Den Line Bui". Particularly the new tourist signs in Dublin, I mean really... delayed to give equal or greater prominence to the Irish, which nearly 100% of foreign visitors won't recognise or have a clue about? (There'll be another counter argument here that it's part of the charm of visiting Ireland to see the dual language signs, I don't think that has any basis in reality at all). I won't even dwell too much on the fact that apparent complainant in both the case of the tourist signs and the bus information signs is from Carraroe, but it must be great to know that one can use the OLA to interfere with infrastructure one doesn't even come into regular contact with.

So no, I sincerely doubt that hatred of the Irish language is what guides most people when they express discontent with the OLA being used to foist it into places where it isn't necessary, possibly to the detriment of implementation. Certainly I'd imagine I'm not alone in seeing exercises like this to be not much more then token action that doesn't and won't lead to increased uptake of the Irish language.

Cathaoirleach

noelfirl wrote: »

I would say that most disregard for the bi-linguality stems from this complaint and this resulting follow up article suggesting the system introduction might be delayed:

"suggesting" being the operative word. Nowhere in Claire Murphy's article does it say that the system would be delayed because of complaints.

The system had already been developed and tested for bilingual use unbeknownst to the complainants that she refers to in the article. The NTA have since clarified that on their website.

Kneejerk reactions from both the anti-Irish and pro-Irish lobby it seems.

coylemj

Getting back to the thread topic....

How come Dublin Bus have installed RT displays at three consecutive bus stops on the N11 from White's Cross to Brewery Road (opp. the Galloping Green pub) yet I can't find a single bus stop with arrival data on RTPI along Nutgrove Ave., Balinteer Ave. or Wickham Way?

I was visiting someone in Balinteer on Saturday so I wanted to catch a 75 bus coming from Tallaght to get home and I know that the 75 route is being tracked on RTPI but all the way from Nutgrove to Dundrum there doesn't seem to be a single bus stop on RTPI, weird or what?

cast_iron

irishguy wrote: »

I dont think I would be totally confused, it just makes is less clear. Most so for people who dont live in the area and arent even too sure of the english version of signs not to mind the Irish version.

To my mind, that's not a good enough reason to ignore the languages act.
Whilst it would be somewhat less clear, it wouldn't be to the extent that it couldn't be rather easily figured out that you require the english version and that's the one that applies to you.

I don't buy the italics argument either. Italics help in a fast moving car as to what destination you are after (ie. the english version). Reading an alternating sign at a bus stop, it would be more than clear that one version of the list is in English, and another version with the same due times and route numbers is merely the same list in Irish.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Getting back to the thread topic....

How come Dublin Bus have installed RT displays at three consecutive bus stops on the N11 from White's Cross to Brewery Road (opp. the Galloping Green pub) yet I can't find a single bus stop with arrival data on RTPI along Nutgrove Ave., Balinteer Ave. or Wickham Way?

I was visiting someone in Balinteer on Saturday so I wanted to catch a 75 bus coming from Tallaght to get home and I know that the 75 route is being tracked on RTPI but all the way from Nutgrove to Dundrum there doesn't seem to be a single bus stop on RTPI, weird or what?

It's actually the NTA that are responsible for the signs - not Dublin Bus.

The signs are still being rolled out - a live sign has appeared at the top of Broadford Road in Ballinteer for the 14 inbound and 75 westbound. The stop opposite it is also live online - if you have access to the internet you can check bus times at www.dublinbuslive.com (the stop is listed on the 14 and 75 stop lists as Broadford Road - Junction Ballinteer Drive).

This map shows where the signs are being installed by the NTA which would imply 2 more signs being installed in Ballinteer and in Rathfarnham, and all along the N11.

Remember too that the 75 routing is due to change in due course along with the planned introduction of new route 175.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

The signs are still being rolled out

He's asking why the bus stops don't have RPTI data, not RPTI signs. If you go a bus stop which has an RPTI sign, you can see x routes data, both on the sign and online. If you go to the next bus stop which doesn't have a sign, there is no data available online. It seems a little odd but I guess maybe they haven't imported all the bus stop locations and routes into the RPTI database yet.

Given that DB had to ask a company to find and map all their bus stops a few years ago and that the bus-stop timestamps regularly show routes that don't go near that stop, I guess it will take a while for NTA/DB to fix it all up.

lil5

lxflyer wrote: »

It's actually the NTA that are responsible for the signs - not Dublin Bus.

I take it that the data is supplied from Dublin Bus. Who's responsible for fixing incorrect planned travel times in the system?

And a 'Sorry - Not in service'-bus being displayed on the sign would probably also fall into the remit of Dublin Bus.

I understand that not all stops can have working RTPI-signs, but it should be possible to have them activated on the web.
The RTPI-website should also indicate whether the stops are active or inactive.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

He's asking why the bus stops don't have RPTI data, not RPTI signs. If you go a bus stop which has an RPTI sign, you can see x routes data, both on the sign and online. If you go to the next bus stop which doesn't have a sign, there is no data available online. It seems a little odd but I guess maybe they haven't imported all the bus stop locations and routes into the RPTI database yet.

Given that DB had to ask a company to find and map all their bus stops a few years ago and that the bus-stop timestamps regularly show routes that don't go near that stop, I guess it will take a while for NTA/DB to fix it all up.

At the moment it appears that only the stops that have or are planned to have signs installed are live online - there are three stops in Ballinteer that are live online.

lil5 wrote: »

I take it that the data is supplied from Dublin Bus. Who's responsible for fixing incorrect planned travel times in the system?

And a 'Sorry - Not in service'-bus being displayed on the sign would probably also fall into the remit of Dublin Bus.

I understand that not all stops can have working RTPI-signs, but it should be possible to have them activated on the web.
The RTPI-website should also indicate whether the stops are active or inactive.

The data comes from the Dublin Bus AVLC system. However as the signs are managed by the NTA they are responsible for collating all the information about them and getting the times changed where necessary.

If there's a problem about a particular sign (and I can think of a few that are not calibrated correctly) you should report it on www.transportforireland.ie

As for which signs are live online or not, www.dublinbuslive.com does actually indicate which stops are live on each route - it's a really good third party website (to which I have no connection to but am very grateful for its existence!!).

stop

There is a noticeable lack of rtpi poles at areas on the southside where qbcs
Intersect with the 17 18 and 75.

Big error this in my opinion. Sure the qbc will have signs telling you there will be 3 buses together in 5 mins, and another 2 together 5 mins after that, but for journeys only covered by a single, quite often unpredictable route, you're on your own!

This does not encourage users to treat the bus network like a hub and spoke network, instead people are more encouraged to go into the city centre and back out again needlessly!

And yes, I did submit my thoughts to the NTA.

lucernarian

stop wrote: »

There is a noticeable lack of rtpi poles at areas on the southside where qbcs
Intersect with the 17 18 and 75.

Big error this in my opinion. Sure the qbc will have signs telling you there will be 3 buses together in 5 mins, and another 2 together 5 mins after that, but for journeys only covered by a single, quite often unpredictable route, you're on your own!

This does not encourage users to treat the bus network like a hub and spoke network, instead people are more encouraged to go into the city centre and back out again needlessly!

And yes, I did submit my thoughts to the NTA.

That is true, though some QBCs are much better than others, in my experience. I would find the Rathmines "corridor" to be more reliable and consistent with buses than the Swords Road QBC for example. I suppose the NTA can't start installing signs in one area at the expense of another area, simply because Dublin Bus have reliability problems in that area.

lainey316

Is there a one-to-one mapping between signs and stops? For example in Rathmines every bus except the 18 stops at one stop opposite the garda station (of course outbound there is only one stop; best not to question it:rolleyes:) - it would seem foolish to put in two RTPI signs, but the 18 alone can hardly justify a second sign, if they are putting them in there at all (there may be a visibility issue as most other stops have the signs now)

They're so great, am delighted with them. The 9 doesn't always appear on the signs, but I figure that's teething problems.

dfx-

No 27s on display today on the RTPIs....

According to one eastbound on the Crumlin Rd at lunchtime...

77A: Due (correct)
151: Due (correct)
77A: 8 minutes
151: 43 minutes:eek:

Wouldn't encourage passing trade:D

KD345

dfx- wrote: »

No 27s on display today on the RTPIs....

They appear fine online ad on apps. For some reason the NTA take about 2/3 days to put new routes on the screens.

LXFlyer

I've noticed that for each of the route changes of late that, for whatever reason, it has taken about two days for the on-street displays to show the new routes.

The online options do however display the new routes from the first day of operation - why this doesn't translate to on-street I don't know.

dfx-

Yes, the actual service level was much better than that, there was a 56A just a few minutes before the 77A I was on. And there was a 27 what turned out to be about 12 minutes behind that 77A.

On the journey in, I didn't see a westbound 27 either from Greenhills Rd to Crumlin College so was beginning to doubt whether they existed at all and whether the RTPI was indeed right.

Solair

The system's also being rolled out in Cork City with a rather disappointing 50 signs going live in 2011.

Although, the priority in Cork would be to fix the damn bus system first. It's a joke and many suburban / inner satellite town areas are for some reason treated as if they were the Bus Eireann Express way to Letterkenny.

But, at least some technology will be a start!

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

The signs are still being rolled out - a live sign has appeared at the top of Broadford Road in Ballinteer for the 14 inbound and 75 westbound. The stop
opposite it is also live online

Thank you, I missed those stops when checking on RTPI, the westbound stop (75 heading to Tallaght) is 02848 and the eastbound stop (75 heading to DL) is 02857.

There's also a westbound stop on Balinteer Ave. near the entrance to Woodpark, roughly opp. Superquinn which is reporting on RTPI - 04397.

lxflyer wrote: »

This map shows where the signs are being installed by the NTA which would imply 2 more signs being installed in Ballinteer and in Rathfarnham, and all along the N11.

I can't understand how they published that map, it's a total disgrace. It's a very low quality map covered with ink spots, completely useless.

older i get better i was

how can i get this ap on my phone to check route 151 live times?

coylemj

older i get better i was wrote: »

how can i get this ap on my phone to check route 151 live times?

Android or iPhone?

older i get better i was

android

coylemj

Best way to use the apps is to store your favourite bus stops which are reporting on RTPI, that doesn't necessarily mean the bus stop has a real time display, there are lots of stops for which data is being collected but which don't yet have the displays.

To reiterate, the best way to use any of these apps is to store your favourite bus stops and then query by the appropriate bus stop when you're planning to catch a bus. If you query by route you'll be bombarded with route maps and timetables.

In the Android market, search for 'dublin bus' and I recommend the 'Dublin Bus' app (developer Black Jade) and 'Next Bus Dublin' (Stephen McBride). I haven't used any of the other listed apps.

LXFlyer

The RTPI is now live on the Dublin Bus website.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/

It can also be accessed by text as per this link.

loyatemu

lxflyer wrote: »

The RTPI is now live on the Dublin Bus website.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/

It can also be accessed by text as per this link.

also as discussed over on the Infrastructure board, it works for (seemingly) all stops, unlike the rtpi.ie site which is only working for stops with a display installed.

Would be useful now if someone could scrape the DB site to make a more smartphone friendly version.

dfx-

loyatemu wrote: »

also as discussed over on the Infrastructure board, it works for (seemingly) all stops, unlike the rtpi.ie site which is only working for stops with a display installed

Not working for stop 2772...I'm guessing not for the outposts

Interesting though randomly looking at a stop. St Luke's Avenue The Coombe. Some of the buses in the list are with notes for wheelchair accessible and some are not. It seems to be bus specific. There's a 77A due that doesn't have the access sign. The next 77A does. There's a 56A due, with access sign. The only other non-access bus is a 27 due at 1710.

Is it spotting whether the individual bus is an RV?:eek:

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

Not working for stop 2772...I'm guessing not for the outposts

Interesting though randomly looking at a stop. St Luke's Avenue The Coombe. Some of the buses in the list are with notes for wheelchair accessible and some are not. It seems to be bus specific. There's a 77A due that doesn't have the access sign. The next 77A does. There's a 56A due, with access sign. The only other non-access bus is a 27 due at 1710.

Is it spotting whether the individual bus is an RV?:eek:

It only shows buses due within the next 60 minutes - I imagine the 1600 from the Square had passed when you checked, meaning that the next bus was over 60 minutes away?

The 1715 departure is currently coming up as serving that stop at 1731.

Yes it can tell (presumably from the bus transponder) whether it is an RV or low-floor.

bb543

Real time long over "due" and it appears to work, Displays are good..
Appears to be issue with out of service buses from time to time, hopefully this will be addressed.
Another issue i have is unfortunately ive a blackberry no app and wont be till next year i'd image after android ver released. up to now i've been using rtpi.ie text version rtpi.ie/text simple but effective, does anyone know if there is equivalent on dublin bus site. Wouldn't it make sense to have, personally i prefer text version so sticking with rtpi.ie/text for the moment

Aard

The past few weekends I've been getting the 75 and have always been waiting ages (40 minutes +). Yesterday I used the online real-time and my wait was cut to 3 minutes. It mightn't be perfect, but it's still incredibly useful.

Ste.phen

I have 2 basic commute options and the RPTI data frequently saves me a bunch of time i'd've lost by missing a connection by letting me know i should get off 'early' and switch to another bus rather than going with plan 'A'
The official Dublin Bus iPhone app is nice, but missing a few features such as making the stops i use most frequently or have marked as favourites more prominent in the interface and forgetting my place if i switch away from and back to the app
Otherwise i'm quite happy!