Real time displays on Dublin Bus

Boulevardier

Thank God the real-time displays are finally up in at least parts of the Dublin Bus network, a mere 10 years or so after their introduction in UK cities.

The stop I normally commute from has been overlooked, but still, good to see it at the other stops.

I have spotted a couple of small anomalies. Last night, for example, the 14A I was waiting for did not show at all on the display. Other buses leaving later did show on it. Suddenly, however, my 14A showed up both on the display and in the flesh.

Other times, I have seen buses showing as "due" for several minutes, and in one case, disappearing afterwards from the display for no reason.

Does anyone know if a cancelled bus will show as "cancelled" or wil it not show on the thing at all?

Don't get me wrong - I am not knocking the new system, I'm just anxious to see it working well.

whytek

Indeed, this will be a big change and it is very welcome. Unfortunately, it's about 20 years too late for me.

Yes, it will take a lot of pain out of travelling by bus for the generation that grows up with it.

However, with every change comes a loss. No longer will people arrive at the bus stop and utter that old familiar "here long?", followed by one of the most pointless of irish conversation makers: "Has the number X gone up yet?"

foggy_lad

whytek wrote: »

Indeed, this will be a big change and it is very welcome. Unfortunately, it's about 20 years too late for me.

Yes, it will take a lot of pain out of travelling by bus for the generation that grows up with it.

However, with every change comes a loss. No longer will people arrive at the bus stop and utter that old familiar "here long?", followed by one of the most pointless of irish conversation makers: "Has the number X gone up yet?"

We will still have nothing for an hour and then see all the missing busses arrive at the same time:)

AlekSmart

Until the line of text reading..."System on Test" is deleted from the displays,none of the information displayed can be taken as accurate....that said...most of the currently active displays are tickety-boo and working very well indeed.

Victor

I suspect that buses don't show up on the system until they leave their terminus / the driver programmes the route in at the terminus.

markpb

At least at the start of the route, the displays countdown to the scheduled departure time. I think all displays along the route do the same until the bus moves off. I'd be curious to know how they handle cancelled buses too.

whytek

Stop speculating and read up. The drivers won't be programming any routes.

Before, they gave us BUSTXT, which was a way to waste money on being told useless theoretical information about the supposed time the bus may or may not have left the terminus. It was up to you to work out what the possible delays and bunching might be due to traffic and disruptions on the up to 1 hour of journey the bus might make before reaching your stop.

Now, I don't know who came up with that idiocy, but now that they have asked the Germans how to do it, We have a system that includes a GPS on every bus feeding to a central control system that has data on the position of every bus at any time, moving or not, although i doubt sharing the position of buses that are not in service with the public is envisaged. As for 'cancelled' buses, I believe this usually happens because an incoming bus doesn't make it to the terminus on time, or because of a lack of driver. This information should be known suficiently well in advance to remove those buses from the system. So a real time check a half hour in advance of your journey should be plently, with the exception of some routes.

Apparently the times displayed on the bus stops are based on the actual position of the bus and some calculations based on data on the amount of time it has taken the bus to get from where it is to the stop in the past.

Access to the system via web, text and presumably iPhone app, etc for the system are all on the way.
I have to say I am really blown away, Now I could sit in the house and just watch for my bus moving up the road on google maps (or a timing countdown on the screen or some such) and simply go out to the stop when it gets to the corner. If I do some really rough maths, I can tell you that as a child, teenager and yound adult, I spent a cumulative 6 months standing at that bus stop. With this new system, that would be reduced to a cumulative 5 days.

noelfirl

I was going to write in the Electronic Timetable thread the other day, but held off, so this seems like an oppurtune point.

whytek wrote: »

Stop speculating and read up. The drivers won't be programming any routes.

That's not strictly true, to take an example, standing on Lower Leeson Street the now operating display only two days ago told me that the next 25A wouldn't be for another 12 minutes, this at peak time when the combined 25A/25B route operates at a slightly higher frequency then that. Lo and behold less then 5 minutes later a 25B appears on the display no more then 4 minutes away (at it's current speed) and jumps right up ahead of the 25A on the screen. This could only presumably have happened when the driver switched his vehicle from out of service to in service and the system picked it up as it began moving. A lot of the other times though same screen on same route will use timetabled times when putting routes up.

Without wanting to harp on about the same display and the same routes, it's also a illustrative point where problems can occur - the next buses on the Lucan corridor can be moving up Fitzwilliam place and the countdown can go down to '1 min' and then 'Due'. Then said buses get stuck turning onto Leeson Street, the displays then proceeding to flash between '1 min' and 'Due' for upwards of five minutes until the bus finally gets around the corner. I presume but am not sure that somehow it might be possible to re-program or for the system to learn that although the bus might be only a small distance away, it's location at a busy junction means it is not only '1 min' away.

Some of the issues I've seen also stem from DB's unusual practices, for instance there was until recently a 145 to Belfield or Donnybrook Church in the mid morning that was reported on Nassau Street (via an app, the screen there is not up yet) as a 145 to Kilmacanogue. This I think has now changed to be one of the classic illustrious magic non-timetabled 46Es that operates to Belfield... but comes up on displays as we pass them as a 46A to Dún Laoghaire :rolleyes:

There are displays at stops containing routes that only go to one or more stops after them before terminating. E.g. the 20B on Merrion Row that only goes to Stephen's Green (i.e. turns two short corners), the 140 on Leeson Street to Wilton Terrace (only 2 or 1 stop away) or any of the Blanchardstown buses (except the 39A) when they reach upper Baggot Street. I'm wondering would it be worth leaving routes such as these off such appropriate displays, as they're taking up a line of text that would be more useful to another bus.

Lastly, on the positioning, most displays are positioned OK, but there are unusual ones that others have pointed out before, my personal favourite being the display at the 123 terminus in Marino, unless that is actually somehow going to tell you how long before a bus departs based on the inbound buses (rather then based on just the timetabled times) then it is utterly pointless. I also don't understand why Our Lady's Hospital in Crumline needs displays at each of the four stops, when AIUI two of them are again terminus stops, and everytime I've passed by most people are waiting at one stop furthest along towards the city.

Very very lastly, in case anyone isn't aware, on the http://www.transportforireland.ie/ website there's a Feedback section where you can leave exact details for journeys involving these screens where e.g. a bus never turned up despite being displayed. What good comes of it, I don't know.

stop

noelfirl wrote: »

. I also don't understand why Our Lady's Hospital in Crumline needs displays at each of the four stops, when AIUI two of them are again terminus stops, and everytime I've passed by most people are waiting at one stop furthest along towards the city.

There is rtpi on 3 of the four stops. 1st one route 18, 3rd one route 122 &1 23, 4th one for Crumlin road buses.

This location is a perfect example of the lack of joined up thinking. DB knew it was going to withdraw the 121 (used to terminate at the 2nd stop) yet it allowed DCC to add a rtpi pole to the 4th (which is supposed to be a temporary stop). rtpi should have been put at the first second and third stops, with 122 terminating at the second one, and 123 & Crumlin road routes stopping at the third.
The Crumlin road routes have ridiculous spacing between their stops in this area with there being 600M between the stop at the Halfway House and their pole at the 4th hospital stop, and then only a further 150M from this stop to the next one at the junction of Cooley road!

lucernarian

I can't understand why they put that RTPI display on upper baggot st when I've rarely seen anyone ever wait for a bus there! Meanwhile most of the bus stops on O'Connell st or the very busy 4/7 bus stop on O'Connell brige has no display. The placement of some of the displays makes no sense. I don't think that having only 500 out of 5000 bus stops on the Dublin bus network enabled with RTPI displays will benefit passengers that much, particularly when many of the busiest departure stops in Dublin have none. If they made sure most of the stops in the city centre had them then at least commuters would reap the benefits of RTPI on one leg of their journey, no matter where they were travelling to (from the CC). Then they could be expanded to central shopping areas or key destinations around Dublin and then on to the intervening stops as they got the money to do so.

whytek

noelfirl wrote: »

Then said buses get stuck turning onto Leeson Street, the displays then proceeding to flash between '1 min' and 'Due' for upwards of five minutes until the bus finally gets around the corner. I presume but am not sure that somehow it might be possible to re-program or for the system to learn..

Which is precisely what I read. The system will learn the behaviour of the buses and modify the displays accordingly. It should get more accurate over time. It will never be 100% accurate of course as we are dealing with traffic.

You make an interesting point there about using up space on the display with routes that only go two more stops. I think scrolling the display would make more sense that taking these off though.

As for displays at termini, Well I'm much happier to see the time the bus is actually going to leave (yes, precisely, based on incoming buses or whatever makes it real, imagine!!). I've had enough going to the terminus at the advertised time and waiting 20 mins thanks very much.

Also, I wouldn't slam it too hard for displays at seemingly "useless" locations. The bus routes may change in the future, and well as for a bus stop when no-one ever waits, maybe they will wait there now if they know what buses are about to arrive!

Anyway, Let's hope they get it right in the end with the display positions if they are limited.

LXFlyer

noelfirl wrote: »

Without wanting to harp on about the same display and the same routes, it's also a illustrative point where problems can occur - the next buses on the Lucan corridor can be moving up Fitzwilliam place and the countdown can go down to '1 min' and then 'Due'. Then said buses get stuck turning onto Leeson Street, the displays then proceeding to flash between '1 min' and 'Due' for upwards of five minutes until the bus finally gets around the corner. I presume but am not sure that somehow it might be possible to re-program or for the system to learn that although the bus might be only a small distance away, it's location at a busy junction means it is not only '1 min' away.

Given that the system is working off GPS, it's a bit difficult for it to realise that there is a traffic jam somewhere - it doesn't use traffic cameras. It uses the average journey times that the schedulers would have come up with for each section of the route to estimate the length of time taken from a particular point.

However, if the displays are consistently wrong, then the running times need to be updated, which I assume is what the feedback forms will be used for on www.transportforireland.ie

noelfirl wrote: »

There are displays at stops containing routes that only go to one or more stops after them before terminating. E.g. the 20B on Merrion Row that only goes to Stephen's Green (i.e. turns two short corners), the 140 on Leeson Street to Wilton Terrace (only 2 or 1 stop away) or any of the Blanchardstown buses (except the 39A) when they reach upper Baggot Street. I'm wondering would it be worth leaving routes such as these off such appropriate displays, as they're taking up a line of text that would be more useful to another bus.

Bear in mind that several of the routes that you describe are going to be changing in the near future - the 20b and 14 are merging and the 140 will be extended to Rathmines, so the issue of them appearing on the stops on Merrion Row or that vicinity will not be an issue. Similarly neither the 27b nor 79 will be terminating in the city centre so their displays will be relevant. Quite a few other routes will be changing in the coming months.

noelfirl wrote: »

Lastly, on the positioning, most displays are positioned OK, but there are unusual ones that others have pointed out before, my personal favourite being the display at the 123 terminus in Marino, unless that is actually somehow going to tell you how long before a bus departs based on the inbound buses (rather then based on just the timetabled times) then it is utterly pointless. I also don't understand why Our Lady's Hospital in Crumline needs displays at each of the four stops, when AIUI two of them are again terminus stops, and everytime I've passed by most people are waiting at one stop furthest along towards the city.

Very very lastly, in case anyone isn't aware, on the http://www.transportforireland.ie/ website there's a Feedback section where you can leave exact details for journeys involving these screens where e.g. a bus never turned up despite being displayed. What good comes of it, I don't know.

I would concur about the positioning of displays at termini - to my mind it is pointless.

Yes the system has its faults, but it is most definitely a huge step forward from what we have had heretofore.

LXFlyer

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I can't understand why they put that RTPI display on upper baggot st when I've rarely seen anyone ever wait for a bus there! Meanwhile most of the bus stops on O'Connell st or the very busy 4/7 bus stop on O'Connell brige has no display. The placement of some of the displays makes no sense. I don't think that having only 500 out of 5000 bus stops on the Dublin bus network enabled with RTPI displays will benefit passengers that much, particularly when many of the busiest departure stops in Dublin have none. If they made sure most of the stops in the city centre had them then at least commuters would reap the benefits of RTPI on one leg of their journey, no matter where they were travelling to (from the CC). Then they could be expanded to central shopping areas or key destinations around Dublin and then on to the intervening stops as they got the money to do so.

I would imagine all the stops in O'Connell Street will be getting displays.

This is a massive prioject - give it some time! Remember every single display has to be individually tested.

Boulevardier

I recently heard a newly-elected TD saying that the new bus timetables will have fewer departures, because the real-time display system means that Dublin Bus can no longer get away with timetabling "phantom" departures.

That seems tantamount to accusing DB of having, up to now, padded their timetables with buses which they had no real intention of actually running!

ArmaniJeanss

whytek wrote: »

As for 'cancelled' buses, I believe this usually happens because an incoming bus doesn't make it to the terminus on time, or because of a lack of driver. This information should be known suficiently well in advance to remove those buses from the system. So a real time check a half hour in advance of your journey should be plently, with the exception of some routes.

lxflyer, I think you said in the other thread that it wasn't possible to do this.
Do you know if that position has changed?

LXFlyer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

lxflyer, I think you said in the other thread that it wasn't possible to do this.
Do you know if that position has changed?

I said that I would think it very unlikely that it would be that smart - I would imagine that sort of thing would require controller intervention.

It would depend upon when the decision was taken to formally cancel the bus.

lucernarian

lxflyer wrote: »

I would imagine all the stops in O'Connell Street will be getting displays.

This is a massive prioject - give it some time! Remember every single display has to be individually tested.

Why would they only carry civils out for one pole out of all the southbound stops on O'Connell st. so? If they could get permission off DCC for one, it's likely they could for the rest of the stops too. After all, the stops on Nassau St. and D'Olier St. had their RTPI poles put up nearly at the same time.

It's a case of priority and targeting to get good use out of the system for passengers and for Dublin bus. They seem to lack a rationale - some centres of population or commerce have stops with no RTPI sign while some quiet streets do have the RTPI displays. And on a given street, quieter bus stops may have a sign while the busier departure stops do not. It's that lack of rationality which baffles me.

Take the main street in Swords, the bus stop outside the council offices is very busy with boarding passengers and even has lay-by space for two buses and two bus shelters are provided too. But is there an RTPI sign in the centre of a large peripheral town, not far from residential areas and with a large commuting population? Nope. Granted, it's a different council area with its own planning criteria but the stop already has two shelters, a pole with departure information is little extra in comparison to the existing street furniture. It's the perfect stop for something like RTPI with a large mix of users who would benefit from it, especially as it does not serve as the terminus of a route but instead people have to guess arrival times for buses which travel the two routes between it and Swords manor (the 41 and 41c). Or the even longer route that starts in Rolestown.

LXFlyer

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Why would they only carry civils out for one pole out of all the southbound stops on O'Connell st. so? If they could get permission off DCC for one, it's likely they could for the rest of the stops too. After all, the stops on Nassau St. and D'Olier St. had their RTPI poles put up nearly at the same time.

It's a case of priority and targeting to get good use out of the system for passengers and for Dublin bus. They seem to lack a rationale - some centres of population or commerce have stops with no RTPI sign while some quiet streets do have the RTPI displays. And on a given street, quieter bus stops may have a sign while the busier departure stops do not. It's that lack of rationality which baffles me.

Take the main street in Swords, the bus stop outside the council offices is very busy with boarding passengers and even has lay-by space for two buses and two bus shelters are provided too. But is there an RTPI sign in the centre of a large peripheral town, not far from residential areas and with a large commuting population? Nope. Granted, it's a different council area with its own planning criteria but the stop already has two shelters, a pole with departure information is little extra in comparison to the existing street furniture. It's the perfect stop for something like RTPI with a large mix of users who would benefit from it, especially as it does not serve as the terminus of a route but instead people have to guess arrival times for buses which travel the two routes between it and Swords manor (the 41 and 41c). Or the even longer route that starts in Rolestown.

Why don't you ask the NTA or indeed DCC who are responsible for the rollout!

If you look at this link and click on the further link on that page to see which stops are getting RTPI info in the Dublin City Council area, you will see that all the stops on O'Connell Street are listed at the very bottom. How they are prioritising the stops I do not know.

But there is still a long way to go in terms of rolling this project out.

lucernarian

I have asked them both about the placements or lack thereof of these RTPI displays in a couple of different locations but I got no response.

LXFlyer

I still would not be too concerned about the lack of poles yet on O'Connell Street. There are 500 of these poles to be installed before the end of the year, and all the stops on O'Connell Street are on the list to get them, so I'd just say be patient.

In the meantime either www.rtpi.ie or www.dublinbuslive.com will get you online live data for those stops.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I still would not be too concerned about the lack of poles yet on O'Connell Street. There are 500 of these poles to be installed before the end of the year, and all the stops on O'Connell Street are on the list to get them, so I'd just say be patient.

I do hope it wont take quite as long as it has taken to come up with a Bus Shetler design deemed acceptable to DCC for erection (!) along O'Connell St...now THAT is a definition of patience....:(

Run_to_da_hills

Do these displays show up if two buses of the same number are are travelling in convoy?

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

I do hope it wont take quite as long as it has taken to come up with a Bus Shetler design deemed acceptable to DCC for erection (!) along O'Connell St...now THAT is a definition of patience....:(

That was more an argument over advertising revenue - DCC wanted to retain all advertising revenue from street furniture on O'Connell Street.

LXFlyer

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Take the main street in Swords, the bus stop outside the council offices is very busy with boarding passengers and even has lay-by space for two buses and two bus shelters are provided too. But is there an RTPI sign in the centre of a large peripheral town, not far from residential areas and with a large commuting population? Nope. Granted, it's a different council area with its own planning criteria but the stop already has two shelters, a pole with departure information is little extra in comparison to the existing street furniture. It's the perfect stop for something like RTPI with a large mix of users who would benefit from it, especially as it does not serve as the terminus of a route but instead people have to guess arrival times for buses which travel the two routes between it and Swords manor (the 41 and 41c). Or the even longer route that starts in Rolestown.

Just to reiterate - this is a work in progress - until all 500 displays are rolled out it is pointless going on about stops that have them and stops that don't. That main stop in Swords will I am quite sure be one of the stops that will have a display. The focus to date has been on the DCC area.

The target date for completion of the rollout is the end of the year so there is still plenty of time for displays to appear at outer stops.

From the front page of www.transportforireland.ie :

We're launching a new Bus Arrival Information Service
As of the end of June 2011, over 100 new electronic bus stop signs have been installed and are being continuously tested across Dublin city as part of the first phase programme for the new real-time passenger information service.

We are very grateful to everyone who has provided feedback through this website. As an update on the test phase, complications with the data feed to the signs and with the bus radio system resulted in occasional system instability during May and early June. These issues have been identified and resolved and a wide range of technical adjustments continue to be made to the system as part of the test phase to refine its accuracy.

The roll out of the signs is continuing at an advanced pace. 400 further signs will be installed and activated as the ESB connect them in the months ahead. The initiative is on schedule to now have 500 signs in place at some of the busiest bus stops across the Greater Dublin Area by the year-end, and to extend the roll out to Cork and other cities. The installed signs will become bilingual in the near future when the database of Irish translations and abbreviations is completed.

Thanks again to everyone who provides feedback, whilst we can’t reply to every message in person, we carefully read and review all comments and messages received through this site.

KD345

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do these displays show up if two buses of the same number are are travelling in convoy?

Yes, it just shows both buses seperately.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to reiterate - this is a work in progress - until all 500 displays are rolled out it is pointless going on about stops that have them and stops that don't. That main stop in Swords will I am quite sure be one of the stops that will have a display. The focus to date has been on the DCC area.

I disagree, if there are putting up displays in nonsensical places, now is the time to object, so that they can possibly take this feedback on and move the displays to more needed stops.

Another example of stupid sign locations are Parnell Square inbound, where I don't think I've ever seen anyone board, it is almost always people getting off.

Yet there are no displays (and it doesn't work online) at Dublin Airport!!!

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

I disagree, if there are putting up displays in nonsensical places, now is the time to object, so that they can possibly take this feedback on and move the displays to more needed stops.

Another example of stupid sign locations are Parnell Square inbound, where I don't think I've ever seen anyone board, it is almost always people getting off.

Yet there are no displays (and it doesn't work online) at Dublin Airport!!!

There is a difference between complaining about a sign being at a stop that has very little usage (perfectly reasonable) and complaining about one not being at a busy stop when only barely over 20% of the signs in situ yet. In the latter case people are judging something ages before the project is anywhere near complete. How do you know they are not going to be at, for example, Dublin Airport?

As it is, Dublin Airport will be less relevant for this going forward as all Dublin Bus routes serving it will terminate there (16, 41a, 102 and 747).

KD345

bk wrote: »

I disagree, if there are putting up displays in nonsensical places, now is the time to object, so that they can possibly take this feedback on and move the displays to more needed stops.

Another example of stupid sign locations are Parnell Square inbound, where I don't think I've ever seen anyone board, it is almost always people getting off.

Yet there are no displays (and it doesn't work online) at Dublin Airport!!!

Places that might seem silly now may actually turn out to be busy stops in the next few months. With the level of cross city routes about to increase many city centre stops will be changing.

I've used Parnell Square inbound many times to board a bus, as have other passengers. Perhaps putting up signs here might encourage passengers to use the stop more.

I agree with lxflyer. I don't see the point in moaning about which stops have received them first, the displays are being rolled out. Give it time.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

As it is, Dublin Airport will be less relevant for this going forward as all Dublin Bus routes serving it will terminate there (16, 41a, 102 and 747).

It is a perception thing. Standing outside Dublin Airport, watching the 16 parked up down the street for 10 minutes before it goes into service gives a really bad first impression to visitors.

Firstly buses shouldn't be allowed to park up here, they should arrange alternative parking facilities and only have the bus pull up to the street that the stops are on when they are to board.

RTPI signs should still be used here, even if it is the terminal, so people know when the bus is due to leave. It just gives a good impression.

ArmaniJeanss

bk wrote: »

RTPI signs should still be used here, even if it is the terminal, so people know when the bus is due to leave. It just gives a good impression.

It wouldn't be a Real Time display though, on the grounds that at the moment you can only have RTPI when the bus has started.
So the first impression the visitor would have of these signs is that they give out incorrect information.

bk

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It wouldn't be a Real Time display though, on the grounds that at the moment you can only have RTPI when the bus has started.
So the first impression the visitor would have of these signs is that they give out incorrect information.

That is why the bus should be of in a separate holding area, and the RTPI updated as they leave the holding area.

THE RTPI's called also display the scheduled departure time as they do in many other places like the 123 terminus.

Again from the point of view of a tourist, the current set up is rubbish. Most people don't even know that there is an accurate timetable at the bus stop and anyway it is hard to get too and read due to the crowds of people at the bus stop.

A display of even the scheduled departure times would be a vast improvement.

lucernarian

KD345 wrote: »

Places that might seem silly now may actually turn out to be busy stops in the next few months. With the level of cross city routes about to increase many city centre stops will be changing.

I've used Parnell Square inbound many times to board a bus, as have other passengers. Perhaps putting up signs here might encourage passengers to use the stop more.

I agree with lxflyer. I don't see the point in moaning about which stops have received them first, the displays are being rolled out. Give it time.

I can see how Parnell Square deserves displays, even for outbound stops that are lightly used as it ties in with the idea of consistency across all the central bus stops and besides, I have seen people using the parnell square stops to go outbound for the likes of the 2/3 bus stop and the outbound stops for the 3, 4 and the 16/a routes among others. More people than what use the baggot st upper (southbound) stop which has only the 18 stopping at it if you ignore the routes that terminate practically around the corner anyway!

In the entirety of Pearse St and Ringsend Rd., there is one RTPI display in each direction. Not even the somewhat busy outbound stop across the Trinity Capital Hotel will get one, according to the RTPI plans for Dublin City Council's area. If this document is accurate then there are still grounds to query their placement.

I'm not sure that 20% completion figure for the RTPI displays is a fair reflection of the project currently. Remember, many bus stops will have signs of the RTPI installation before it's operational. Quite a number of stops I've seen in the last two months have the metal pole in place but with no electronic display for example.

I would be concerned about an RTPI display being provided for the airport if it's not even showing up on the online. I doubt this will be lost on the designers and planners of this system that's still in development so I'm keeping my powder dry on that one. I really hope the DAA are facilitating the provision of these displays...

And I accept the point about O'Connell St, it's likely those stops will see RTPI displays even if the rollout seems sporadic. There's a long way to go before we know the full extent of the rollout and the veracity of the mentioned plans.

schemingbohemia

remember that there will be smartphone access to RTPI also, so if your stop doesn't have a sign/pole then most people will still be able to access the information.

lucernarian

And do most people have smartphones? With the internet access subscription to check the RTPI info for the stop?

mgmt

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

And do most people have smartphones? With the internet access subscription to check the RTPI info for the stop?

They could have a non-smartphone service. Text the bus stop number and it will tell you the real time arrivals, not the listed times as they currently do.

lucernarian

mgmt wrote: »

They could have a non-smartphone service. Text the bus stop number and it will tell you the real time arrivals, not the listed times as they currently do.

That would be nice to see implemented. Maybe there'll be some movement on that this year. Hopefully any new SMS service won't cost more than the existing Bustxt.

LXFlyer

That's exactly what is planned.

http://www.transportforireland.ie/future-plans

SMS text service
Web and text messaging services are scheduled to be available in 2011. These services will cover all 5,000 bus stops served by Dublin Bus. You will then be able to access real time bus arrival information from your phone and the internet for every Dublin Bus stop.

Internet Service
Following the roll-out of the information signs, passengers will be able to access the latest service information using mobile web or their internet connection at home or at work. Passengers will also be able to search by bus stop name, street name or area. It is scheduled for 2011 that those planning a journey on the web will also be able to search on a map.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

That is why the bus should be of in a separate holding area, and the RTPI updated as they leave the holding area.

THE RTPI's called also display the scheduled departure time as they do in many other places like the 123 terminus.

Again from the point of view of a tourist, the current set up is rubbish. Most people don't even know that there is an accurate timetable at the bus stop and anyway it is hard to get too and read due to the crowds of people at the bus stop.

A display of even the scheduled departure times would be a vast improvement.

OK so we should spend more money building a "holding area" and spend more money on fuel as buses drive to and from it every time they go to the airport just because you think seeing a bus parked at a terminus does not look good?

For goodness sake they are trying to reduce costs not increase them!!

I think most people in the world are used to seeing buses parked at a terminus.

Also, if the entire 16/16a service is merged into one 16 route as planned, then the amount of time there is no bus picking up passengers at the stop will be a lot less than it is now given the higher frequencies involved.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

OK so we should spend more money building a "holding area" and spend more money on fuel as buses drive to and from it every time they go to the airport just because you think seeing a bus parked at a terminus does not look good?

FFS Ixflyer you know I'm not talking about spending a load of money doing this. Just have the buses stop around the corner, out of sight, until they are ready to pull up to the stop and start boarding.

At worst it entails a few extra markings on the road.

Trust me it matters when you are standing in the rain, because there are too few shelters and you are staring at the 16a just 10 meters away with the driver siting in it with the door closed all nice and dry. I was looking around and I could see many very confused tourists. It just doesn't happen in most other countries.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

I think most people in the world are used to seeing buses parked at a terminus.

From my experience at the airport, no. People run to every bus that pulls up whether it's coming in, going out or going in the wrong direction. On several occasions I've seen a 16A come in, unload passengers and, just as tourists are trying to board, the driver closes the door and refuses to explain to them why they can't board. Then a 41 will pull up behind and leave people wondering which one to board. To the other extreme are the 16A drivers who let people board long before they're due to depart, only for a 41 to come through, leave empty and with the passengers still sitting on the 16A.

Things are better now with the newly arranged coach area (at least all the non-express city-bound services leave from one bus stop) but it's still not a great experience for people unused to Dublin Bus.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

FFS Ixflyer you know I'm not talking about spending a load of money doing this. Just have the buses stop around the corner, out of sight, until they are ready to pull up to the stop and start boarding.

At worst it entails a few extra markings on the road.

Trust me it matters when you are standing in the rain, because there are too few shelters and you are staring at the 16a just 10 meters away with the driver siting in it with the door closed all nice and dry. I was looking around and I could see many very confused tourists. It just doesn't happen in most other countries.

markpb wrote: »

From my experience at the airport, no. People run to every bus that pulls up whether it's coming in, going out or going in the wrong direction. On several occasions I've seen a 16A come in, unload passengers and, just as tourists are trying to board, the driver closes the door and refuses to explain to them why they can't board. Then a 41 will pull up behind and leave people wondering which one to board. To the other extreme are the 16A drivers who let people board long before they're due to depart, only for a 41 to come through, leave empty and with the passengers still sitting on the 16A.

Things are better now with the newly arranged coach area (at least all the non-express city-bound services leave from one bus stop) but it's still not a great experience for people unused to Dublin Bus.

Most of what you are complaining about should be significantly less of a problem if as planned the 41 is removed from the airport and the 16 becomes the bus to/from the city at a higher frequency.

To be fair it is a bus station, and in most bus stations that I've been in (and that is an awful lot), be they at airports or elsewhere, I've seen buses arrive short of the stop on the bus stand, allow passengers get off and then doors close for a few minutes before the bus pulls back up to the stop.

That's what happens over at the coach station too.

bk - there is nowhere "around the corner" from the bus station to park other than outside terminal 2, and that is a longer hike for the passengers getting off the bus for terminal 1 to walk than they have currently.

lil5

After returning from holidays I see the system is no longer "in test".

There's a good few more displays activated (at least on through web) along the 7 bus route, although the distribution is a bit of a mystery.

The running times of the 7 bus in the system are still pure fiction. Standing in Ballsbridge 10 minutes could be anything from 15 to 25 minutes. The 4 bus is closer to reality.

foggy_lad

lil5 wrote: »

After returning from holidays I see the system is no longer "in test".

There's a good few more displays activated (at least on through web) along the 7 bus route, although the distribution is a bit of a mystery.

The running times of the 7 bus in the system are still pure fiction. Standing in Ballsbridge 10 minutes could be anything from 15 to 25 minutes. The 4 bus is closer to reality.

It is no longer in test but they have still not complied by having bilingual displays!

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is no longer in test but they have still not complied by having bilingual displays!

I understand a mechanism has been found which means the OLA requirements to not extend to this system.....unless the screen is erected in the middle of An Daingean or Corca Dhuibhne.....?

The Maverick

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is no longer in test but they have still not complied by having bilingual displays!

I cannot imagine why anyone would care about a bilingual version, the display is mainly numbers anyway.

How do they decide which displays get switched on? They're quite patchy along the southside part of the 4 and 7 routes. Most of the stops southbound are on but only a few towards the city centre are.

Red Alert

Thank God the Irish doesn't have to be on them... it would get quite confusing with the displays flipping from one language to the other.

lil5

I'd rather have the correct times and no phantom buses.

starviewadams

Who the feck would want an Irish translation?!surely all you need is the bus route number and the time it's arriving.

Guarantee some miserable gaeilgeoir will come along and kick up a fuss at some stage because of it.

noelfirl

I wouldn't go getting too excited, this FAQ was updated with these details not that long ago...

Bilingual Signs?

When the National Transport Authority assumed the management of the Real Time Bus Passenger Information programme from the Department of Transport, it was considered whether the signs should be bilingual.
The main objective was that the signs should be legible for all users, including motorists, in order to encourage modal shift from car to bus. The Authority was concerned that the legibility could be compromised if the variable message on the sign alternated between Irish and English in addition to information changing as buses approached the stops.
However bilingual functionality was included as part of the RTPI software contract in order to serve the website. This allowed the Authority and Dublin City Council to trial a bilingual sign. The trial demonstrated that legibility and effectiveness are not overly compromised by including standard information in 2 languages. The National Transport Authority is, therefore, comfortable that these bilingual traffic signs can accord with the Traffic Signs Manual.
The Authority is working with Dublin City Council and the bus operators to prepare al bus stop database in Irish which can be displayed within the 19 characters available on the signs. When this work is complete it will allow us to implement the change to bilingual on street signs in the coming weeks.

starviewadams wrote: »

Guarantee some miserable gaeilgeoir will come along and kick up a fuss at some stage because of it.

Some gaeilgeoir did already, hence the addition above. Maybe now that info is out of date and there won't be bilinguality but I wouldn't count chickens yet.

coylemj

noelfirl wrote: »

Some gaeilgeoir did already, hence the addition above. Maybe now that info is out of date and there won't be bilinguality but I wouldn't count chickens yet.

The main reason for including the destination on the display is to tell would-be travellers which direction the bus is going e.g. in the case of the 46A whether it's 'Phoenix Park' or 'Dun Laoghaire'. Most of the people who need this information are tourists so it beggars belief that DB are caving in to the Irish language terrorists lobbyists to have the information bilingual.

etchyed

coylemj wrote: »

...so it beggars belief that DB are caving in to the Irish language terrorists lobbyists to have the information bilingual.

This one line is so full of factual inaccuracies I don't know where to begin. Actually, that's a lie. I do, and I'm going to number them

1. Dublin Bus are not responsible for the rollout of RTPI displays.
2. If Irish was put on the signs, it wouldn't be because of the NTA and Dublin City Council (who are responsible for RTPI) "caving in" to the Irish language lobby, it would be because it is required by law under the Official Languages Act 2003.
3. If what AlekSmart says above is true, they are not, as you claim, "caving in" but rather actively resisting the lobbyists by trying to find loopholes in the law that exempt them from putting Irish on the signs.