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Was the GPO in 1916 Looted?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Here is a link to a Sinn Fein Commemoration Handbook of the Rising printed 1917

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30860794/Sinn-Fein-Rebellion-Hand-Book


    000.jpg

    Check from 33 etc for details of fires etc

    000.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    re the chap who had money on him, I've a feeling I've seen a reference elsewhere to it being collected and documented by the rebels rather than a case of looting. Will skim through the Rising books I have and see if I can find it.

    According to offical British sources the O'Rahilly had Lt Chalmers (the officer captured when the GPO was initially stormed) held in a location such that he could observe the GPO safe and see that the rebels were not involved in trying to open and loot it.

    I was wondering about that story too - Actually IMO it's proof of nothing that money was found on someone - was money in fact carried into the GPO? I don't see any evidence that it was not.


    The IRB wasn't broke - they had funding from many sources. By Beresford Ellis' description the GPO was deliberately chosen as the headquarters for what could have been a prolonged war - if the whole country had come out. The presence of various specialty members being stationed there including those who could use the telegraph system indicates a sense of preparedness - why would they not have brought some funds with them into their HQ for the purposes of their war?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    The IRB/ICA were expecting a low key response and were not expecting artillery etc. It was all over in 5 days.

    I dont personally believe there was gold looted by the GPO but that there was the opportunity to rob banks and other businesses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    ditto re the gold. I don't believe there was any in the GPO.

    The money found on one of the garrison, in my opionion, was the money in the GPO counter tills and I would imagine that either Connolly or the O'Rahilly ordered it to be gathered up and kept safe, to be accounted for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    i dont believe there was any gold either..the story I was told as a child was that some rebels escaped capture with money, their names tally with names of men who fought in the GPO along with another witnessed them...though I would like a list of men captured in or around the GPO...and I will always concede that the story should be taken with a grain of salt...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    CDfm wrote: »
    Here is a link to a Sinn Fein Commemoration Handbook of the Rising printed 1917

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30860794/Sinn-Fein-Rebellion-Hand-Book


    000.jpg

    Check from 33 etc for details of fires etc

    000.jpg
    You do know that this wasn't put out by Sinn Fein? It's a newspaper report. So take it with a grain of salt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    and there were people traveling and delivering messages so it is possible that if people were taking advantage of opportunities it could have happened

    the guy with the money -its neither here nor there in the scale of things -it does seem likely it was counter money.

    the treatment of civilians and civilan deaths was a key element in the aftermath.

    (Hanna Sheehy claimed to have acted as a courier for markiewicz and connolly and refused compensation of 10,000 for her husbands murder -the Colthursts were burnt out of West Cork subsequently)

    Public opinion suddenly became very important with the extention of the franchise in 1918. A maximum of 1/3 of men had the vote in 1916 & in 1918 all men over 21 & women over 30 had the franchise.

    So the sequence of events is very important and the "us & them "behavior of the ascendency officer class and Maxwell was pivotal. The rising didn't win anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    MarchDub wrote: »
    You do know that this wasn't put out by Sinn Fein? It's a newspaper report. So take it with a grain of salt.

    Its an Irish Times publication and the 12 months following the rising saw a change in public opinion in Dublin. Why ?

    West Cork was virtually a Republic by all accounts.

    So why did Dublin change.

    EDIT page 102 reports on the Bowen-Colthurst Court Martial


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    CDfm wrote: »
    Its an Irish Times publication and the 12 months following the rising saw a change in public opinion in Dublin. Why ?

    West Cork was virtually a Republic by all accounts.

    So why did Dublin change.

    Public opinion about the aspirations of the IRB - an independent Ireland - should not be confused about pubic opinion about how to achieve it i.e would 1916 give that? There is no evidence to suggest - in fact on the contrary - that Dublin did not support an independent Ireland. Home Rule candidates had been returned for decades in Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    CDfm wrote: »
    Here is a link to a Sinn Fein Commemoration Handbook of the Rising printed 1917

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/30860794/Sinn-Fein-Rebellion-Hand-Book


    000.jpg

    Check from 33 etc for details of fires etc
    Excellent link- the Times coverage had changed its angle quite a bit in the year in between the rising and this publication.
    MarchDub wrote: »
    Public opinion about the aspirations of the IRB - an independent Ireland - should not be confused about pubic opinion about how to achieve it i.e would 1916 give that? There is no evidence to suggest - in fact on the contrary - that Dublin did not support an independent Ireland. Home Rule candidates had been returned for decades in Dublin.
    Support for home rule was not the same as support for an independent Ireland.
    Sinn fein contested elections in opposition to home rule supporting candidates before 1916 without much success. It took the blood sacrifice of 1916 to make the Irish populace support the more radical idea of independence. This is proven if election results from 1900- 1920 are analysed.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub




    Support for home rule was not the same as support for an independent Ireland.

    Sinn fein contested elections in opposition to home rule supporting candidates before 1916 without much success. It took the blood sacrifice of 1916 to make the Irish populace support the more radical idea of independence. This is proven if election results from 1900- 1920 are analysed.

    It was more than a matter of degree or looking at bare election results - there was huge emotional attachment to the Home Rule party going back to Parnell and the belief that HR would lead to an independent Ireland with control over politics and economy - the Land War had brought out all that nationalist style narrative.
    Parnell had clearly stated:
    "Why should Ireland be treated as a geographical fragment of England as I heard an ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer call it some time ago? Ireland is not a geographical fragment but a nation".
    After Parnell as Home Rule became a more distant hope even those within Irish politics grew disillusioned.
    C.J. Dolan ([1908], Jan. 7), on his disillusionment with the constitutional movement and its reliance upon English Liberalism. Dolan writes ‘I have turned my back on the sham fight in Westminster henceforth to fight the real fight in Ireland, and I am endeavouring to obtain the sanction of my constituents [in North Leitrim] in declaring that my country is not a subject province dependent on the accidents of British politics … but a free and independent nation’;
    But I don't want to get into an OT discussion - we have previously done an extensive thread on this some time ago.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055663938


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    MarchDub wrote: »
    Public opinion about the aspirations of the IRB - an independent Ireland - should not be confused about pubic opinion about how to achieve it i.e would 1916 give that? There is no evidence to suggest - in fact on the contrary - that Dublin did not support an independent Ireland. Home Rule candidates had been returned for decades in Dublin.

    Yes MD but you had 2 seperate electorates pre-1914 and post 1918 and the definitions of what constituted home rule also changed.

    You also had some extreme politicians in the IRB & ICA .

    Even Trotsky sought asylum in Ireland in the 1920's and WT Cosgrave refused him.

    Democracy did not exist and the ascendency were associated with the killings & the your leaders don't shoot you and your family. That kind of changes public opinion cos shooting you & your family is something your enemies do.

    So there was a huge transition and the "Jackeens" that were out for the 1911 Royal Visit among the general population probably went on the fire.


    Excellent link- the Times coverage had changed its angle quite a bit in the year in between the rising and this publication.


    Support for home rule was not the same as support for an independent Ireland.
    Sinn fein contested elections in opposition to home rule supporting candidates before 1916 without much success. It took the blood sacrifice of 1916 to make the Irish populace support the more radical idea of independence. This is proven if election results from 1900- 1920 are analysed.

    You also had the franchise changes Post the Great War which caused a huge change.

    I don't think the blood sacrifice thing did it as much as the Army & Ascendency going out of control and indiscriminately killing people.
    Sheehy-Skeffington was the high profile guy but the civilian body count and number of casualties exceeded the rebel & military dead & injured.

    Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    CDfm wrote: »
    You also had the franchise changes Post the Great War which caused a huge change.

    I don't think the blood sacrifice thing did it as much as the Army & Ascendency going out of control and indiscriminately killing people.
    Sheehy-Skeffington was the high profile guy but the civilian body count and number of casualties exceeded the rebel & military dead & injured.
    .

    Was Sheehy-Skeffingtons murder well known at the time or was it overshadowed by the Rising itself? It seems to me a crime that didnt garner the notoriety that the facts warranted.
    When his stance is considered it is hard understand any reason for his killing- They killed the Rising leaders for 'treason' but what was the justification for killing Skeffington?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Was Sheehy-Skeffingtons murder well known at the time or was it overshadowed by the Rising itself? It seems to me a crime that didnt garner the notoriety that the facts warranted.
    When his stance is considered it is hard understand any reason for his killing- They killed the Rising leaders for 'treason' but what was the justification for killing Skeffington?

    Just read this on Sheehy-Skeffington on wikipedia

    During the week of the Easter Rising, Sheehy-Skeffington, who had been living at 11, Grosvenor Place, Rathmines, Dublin, was concerned about the collapse of law and order. On the evening of Tuesday, 25 April, he went into the city centre to attempt to organise a citizens militia (police) to prevent the looting of damaged shops.
    He was arrested for no stated, or indeed obvious, reason while returning home, by members of the 11th East Surrey Regiment at Portobello Bridge along with some hecklers who were following him, and, after admitting to having sympathy for the insurgents' cause (but not their tactics), he was held as an enemy sympathizer. Later that evening an officer of the 3rd battalion Royal Irish Rifles, Captain J. C. Bowen-Colthurst (a member of a County Cork family of the landed gentry), sent Sheehy-Skeffington out with an army raiding party in Rathmines, held as a hostage with his hands tied behind his back. The raiding party had orders that he was to be shot if it was attacked.

    ....



    Bowen-Colthurst sought out "Fenians". He went to the home and shop of Alderman James Kelly at the corner of Camden Street and Harcourt Road, from which the name "Kelly's Corner" derives. Mistaking the Alderman (who was a Conservative) for a rebel, the soldiers destroyed the shop with hand grenades. Bowen-Colthurst took captive a young boy, two pro-British journalists who were in the shop — Thomas Dixon and Patrick McIntyre — and a Sinn Féin politician, Richard O'Carroll, all of whom he had shot. Skeffington witnessed the two murders on the way to Rathmines. The two journalists were killed with him the following morning. Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington was not told about her husband's detention or his death and only discovered what had happened four days later, when she met the chaplain of the barracks. Bowen-Colthurst attempted a cover-up and ordered the search and ransack of Skeffington's home, looking for evidence to damage him. This event resulted in a Westminster-ordered cover-up, as a result of which Bowen-Colthurst was detained in an asylum for eighteen months. He would later retire to Canada on a full pension.


    I'd say that was what lost Ireland. Killing a conservative shop-keeper and pro-British journalist is going to turn both those classes against you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    It was well known & Hanna Sheehy was not a little woman she was quite pissed off that her husband had been shot


    Now her PR campaingn was this

    " Opposite Rathmines Catholic Church the column came upon two boys who had been attending the service that evening and were returning to their homes. Colthurst stopped and asked them if they did not know that martial
    law had been proclaimed, and that they could be ' shot like dogs.' The elder of the boys, J. J. Coady, a lad of 17, made no reply but started to walk away. ' Bash him, Colthurst ordered, and a soldier broke the boy's jaw with the butt end of his rifle, knocking him down. Colthurst whipped out his revolver and shot him dead. The body was later carried to the barracks.

    " My husband protested against this wanton murder and was told by Colthurst to say his prayers as he probably would be the next.

    " Shortly before 10 o'clock the next morning Colthurst again demanded my husband from the guard, together with the two other editors. Besides Wilson and Dobbin, Lieutenant Tooley was in charge of the guard of 18 men. To them he stated he was ' going to shoot Skeffington and the other two.' According to their own testimony these subordinate officers delivered the three prisoners to Colthurst without protest. They also told off seven men with rifles to accompany Colthurst to the barracks' yard.

    " This yard was about 12 feet long and 6 feet wide. As the three prisoners walked away from the firing squad, and when they had reached the end of the yard, Colthurst gave the order to fire, and all three dropped in their tracks, dead.

    " The British authorities prevented my ever seeing my husband's body, and when I attempted to have an inquest held, refused permission.

    " Colthurst presently made a report of the triple murder after Major Rosborough ordered him to do so, and it was duly sent to headquarters at Dublin Castle. The report was altogether a fabrication and, subsequently, he was ordered to make a second report. Meantime, however, he kept his command without even a reprimand.


    Her father had been a Nationalist MP and the Murder was debated in parliment at her instigation shortly afterwards all Britain knew what had happened.


    She was one of the first of a new generation of women to graduate from an Irish university, being conferred with a BA in languages from the Catholic St Mary’s University College for Women in 1899. She went on to study for a period in France and Germany and took an MA in modern languages in Dublin in 1902. She taught for a period in the Rathmines School of Commerce. In June 1903 she married Francis Skeffington (1878–1916), a university registrar who was prominent as a controversial journalist with socialist and pacifist sympathies. He was a vegetarian and a teetotaller. He proved a beloved companion who was both kind and humorous.

    A pacifist like her husband, she supported him in his campaign against conscription at the beginning of the First World War, an activity for which he got gaol. During the Easter Rising of 1916 she carried messages to the GPO where her uncle, Fr Eugene Sheehy, gave spiritual aid to the rebels. Her husband, though an Irish nationalist, opposed attempts by the Irish Volunteers and the Citizen Army to overthrow British rule by force. He was arrested on 25 April while trying to prevent looting in Dublin. He was detained that night and the next morning, was taken from his cell by Captain J. C. Bowen-Colthurst of the Royal Irish Rifles. With two other prisoners, Sheehy-Skeffington was taken into the barracks yard and shot without trial. Hanna immediately began to campaign for justice, forcing the Royal Commission to hold an inquiry, which led to the court-martial of her husband’s killer. She refused compensation of £10,000 from the British army for the killing of her husband. On 8 May 1916 Francis Sheehy-Skeffington’s body, which had been buried at Portobello Barracks, was exhumed and reburied in Glasnevin cemetery in Dublin.
    Hanna undertook a lecture tour of the USA in December 1916. During the next two years she spoke widely in support of Sinn Féin and of Irish independence. She spoke at over 250 meetings and succeeded in raising significant funds for Michael Collins. She published a pamphlet called British militarism as I have known it, which was banned in Ireland and England until after the First World War. In July 1917 she returned secretly to Ireland.



    http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/Hanna_Sheehy-Skeffington


    She did things like this
    In January 1918, on behalf of Cumann na mBan, she personally presented Ireland’s claim for self-determination to President Wilson. Upon her return to Ireland she was arrested and imprisoned together with Mrs Kathleen Clarke, Countess Markievicz and Maud Gonne-MacBride in Holloway Gaol, London. They were released after a hunger strike
    .

    And this

    played active part in fomenting the Plough and the Stars riot in the Abbey Theatre, Dublin (Feb. 1926); revisited America, and later visited Russia, 1929; arrested in Newry and imprisoned for one month in Northern Ireland for defying exclusion order, 1931 [var. 1933]; fnd. Women’s Social and Progressive League; died at Easter 1946, near the anniversary of her husband’s murder. DIH


    Sean O’Casey, Inishfallen, Fare Thee Well (London: Macmillan 1949) [Chap., ‘Temple Entered’], giving account of public debate with Hanna Sheehy Skeffington, who he describes thus: ‘A very clever and a very upright woman … turned the dispute into an academic question because … she wished him to do the same’ (pp.188; and see under Notes, infra.)
    [ top ]
    Conor Cruise O’Brien, ‘My Time at Trinity College’, The Recorder: Journal of the Irish American Historical Society, 13, 1 (Spring 2000), pp.7-37. O’Brien gives a full account of her personality and several episodes in which her republican nationalism was manifested; also tells of of tongue-lashing that he received from Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington as a child and another years later when he and Christine Foster accidentally set fire to a curtain, causing him to experience a ‘regression’ so that he could not answer back, and attributes the break-down of his marriage to Foster to this event. He further remarks, ‘Years later, when I readof Hanna’s shattering impacton Seán O’cAsey in the debate over The Plough and the Stars, I know exactly how O’Casey felt. I had been unnerved, at a critical moment in my life, just as he had been unnerved.’ (p.36.)






    http://www.ricorso.net/rx/az-data/authors/s/Sheehy-S_H/life.htm

    And she was O'Briens aunt .

    So she was exceptionally psychologically tough and was from Kanturk in Co Cork.

    And what Hanna did next & her publicity campaign

    His record as a publicist for many years as special correspondent of labour papers such as the London Herald, New York Call, Manchester Guardian, and as author of the " Life of Michael Davitt," and as editor and founder of the Irish Citizen, a pacifist and feminist Dublin Weekly established him as a man to whom the thought of militarism was abhorrent.

    " Equally well-known was his opposition to Arthur Griffith, whose ideals were anti-socialist. Altogether then, although he was openly associated with James Connolly in the revolutionary Irish labour movement and was one of the founders of the Irish socialist party, he was not an undesirable in British eyes in the sense that rebel suspects were.

    " Of course, neither he nor I would have been surprised had he been deported to England on his return from America. But murder without trial we did not foresee.

    " My brother, Eugene Sheehy, an attorney, volunteered as a follower of Redmond for service in the British army during the war. He became a lieutenant in the Dublin Fusiliers, and later won a captaincy. My sister's husband, Professor Tom Kettle, also was a lieutenant in the same regiment and was killed in action in France in September, 1916. My father then a member of Parliament for South Meath supported England in the alleged ' fight for small nations.' Thus my husband and I were in a small minority in our family.

    " Finally, my husband was sympathetic to the idea of an Irish Republic in so far as it made for a worker's commonwealth, but he was distinctly opposed to the use of military methods to achieve that end. I emphasise this point,
    because it bears directly on the fact that his murder was so completely without justification as to compel English military chieftains to admit as much officially.

    " And they knew his attitude. In March, a month before his murder, my husband published an open letter to Thomas MacDonagh one of the signers of the Irish Republic Proclamation and made his position clear. In the course of this letter he stated :

    " ' As you know I am personally in full sympathy with the fundamental objects of the Irish Volunteers. When you shook off the Redmondite incubus last September I was on the point of joining you. ... I am glad now that I did not. For, as your infant movement grows towards the stature of a full-grown militarism its essence preparation to kill grows more repellent to me.

    " ' High ideals undoubtedly animate you. But has not nearly every militarist system started with the same high ideals ? You are not out to exploit or to oppress ; you are out merely to prevent exploitation and to defend. You justify no war except a war to end oppression, to establish the right. What
    militarism ever avowed other aims in its beginnings ?

    " ' I advocate no mere servile lazy acquiescence in injustice . . . but I want to see the age-long fight against injustice clothe itself in new forms, suited
    to a new age. I want to see the manhood of Ireland no longer hypnotised by the glamour of ' the glory of arms, no longer blind to the horrors of organised murder. . . . We are on the threshold of a new era in human history. After this war nothing can be as it was before. The foundations of all things must be re-examined. . . . Formerly we could only imagine the chaos to which we were being led by the military spirit. Now we realise it. And we must never fall into that abyss again.'

    " Surely there was nothing in this openly distributed document to earn British censure. On the other hand there was his arrest to prove that he was none the less offensive to the British authorities. His article in the Century was not calculated to improve his standing. In that article he had referred to the sentence of a fortnight meted out to a Dublin boy for kicking a recruiting poster ! As a matter of fact, subsequent events proved that his description was circulated to the military immediately after the Easter Monday rising.

    " So much for my husband, and his record.

    " Captain Bowen-Colthurst had had sixteen years' service in the British army. His family had settled in Ireland in Cromwell's time and been given grants of land confiscated from the Irish. At the court-martial held in Richmond Barracks, Dublin, June 6, 1916, fellow officers of Colthurst's testified to his cruelty to natives in India and to his having tortured dumb animals while on service there. After the battle of Mons, according to the|testimony of Major-General Bird, Colthurst's ' eccentricity ' (which had expressed itself in his recklessly sacrificing his men and practising cruelty on German prisoners) resulted in his being sent home from the front.

    " When the Easter Week rising took place Colthurst was stationed with the 3rd Royal Irish Rifles in Portobello Barracks. The battalion's commanding officer, Colonel McCammond, was absent on sick-leave. Captain Colthurst,
    although not the equal in rank of Major Rosborough, was the senior office in point of service and, according to all the evidence, considered himself at liberty to ignore his brother-officers.

    " If this statement seems incredible to persons who have implicit faith in the unvarying discipline enforced in all units of the British army, let it be remembered that what I have just said was stated by a British officer at Colthurst's court martial. More, it is easy to prove that there was open animosity between all the Irish regiments, as regards those recruited in the north-east and in the south of Ireland. Although they all wore the British uniform and served the same king, they were bitterly hostile to one another. Between the Royal Irish Rifles, for instance, and the Dublin Fusiliers there was constant friction. The former was an Orange regiment from Belfast.

    " Through my family's connections with the British military forces I had become acquainted with Captain T. Wilson, then a despatch rider in the Dublin Fusiliers. I appealed to him after rumours had reached me that my husband was being held prisoner in Portobello Barracks to go there and make enquiries. He refused point blank, asking me if I wanted him to go to his death. When he realised I didn't understand the situation, he explained.
    He dared not go near the Royal Irish Rifles. He was a Catholic !

    " So much for Colthurst and the conditions affecting army discipline in Dublin at the time of the Easter Week rising.

    " When the outbreak began on Easter Monday my husband was near Dublin Castle. He learned that a British officer had been gravely wounded and was bleeding to death on the cobblestones outside the Castle gate. My husband persuaded a bystander to go with him to the rescue. Together
    they ran across the square under a hail of fire. Before they reached the spot, however, some British troops rushed out and dragged the wounded man to cover inside the gate.

    " Throughout that day and the next my husband actively interested himself in preventing looting. He was instrumental in saving several shops ; he posted civic guards, and enlisted the help of many civilians and priests. He pleaded with the crowds and persuaded them to return to their homes. But by Tuesday evening the crowds were getting out of hand. Everyone feared the worst. My husband called a meeting for that evening to organise a civic police. We met at 5.30 and had tea. I went home by a roundabout route, for I was anxious about my seven-year-old boy. I never saw my husband again.

    " It was between 7 and 8 o'clock that evening that my husband passed Portobello Bridge on his way home. At this point Lieutenant M. C. Morris, Nth East Surrey regiment, was in charge of a picket. Recognising my husband from the circulated description of him he ordered his arrest. He was unarmed, carrying a walking-stick, and was walking quite alone in the middle of the road. At Portobello Barracks, wither two soldiers escorted him, he was searched and questioned. No papers of an incriminating character were found on him.

    " Lieutenant S. V. Morgan, 3rd Royal Irish Rifles, the adjutant at Portobello Barracks, reported the arrest to headquarters, saying there was no charge against my husband, and asking whether he should release him. Orders
    were given to detain him. But the charge sheet produced at Colthurst's court martial showed the entry against my husband's name was ' no charge.'

    " Told he was to be detained overnight, he asked that I be informed, but the request was refused. No message was ever allowed to reach me ; no notification of his death no announcement of his first or second burial was ever issued.

    " At about midnight Captain Bowen-Colthurst came to Lieutenant W. P. Dobbin, 3rd Royal Irish Fusiliers, captain of the guard, and demanded that my husband be turned over to him. This, of course, Dobbin had no right to do, but he did it. Colthurst had my husband's hands tied behind his back, and then led him out with a raiding party along the Rathmines road, the raiders firing at houses as they went along.

    " Opposite Rathmines Catholic Church the column came upon two boys who had been attending the service that evening and were returning to their homes. Colthurst stopped and asked them if they did not know that martial
    law had been proclaimed, and that they could be ' shot like dogs.' The elder of the boys, J. J. Coady, a lad of 17, made no reply but started to walk away. ' Bash him, Colthurst ordered, and a soldier broke the boy's jaw with the butt end of his rifle, knocking him down. Colthurst whipped out his revolver and shot him dead. The body was later carried to the barracks.

    " My husband protested against this wanton murder and was told by Colthurst to say his prayers as he probably would be the next.

    " Evidence as to what happened next is conflicting, although it is abundantly plain that Colthurst committed another murder a few minutes later. The official enquiry report on this subject had this to say :

    " ' The evidence of the different witnesses can only be reconciled by inferring that more than one case of shooting occurred during the progress of Capt. Colthurst's party. . . . None of the evidence offered to us afforded any justification for the shooting of Coady ; it is, of course, a delusion to suppose that martial law confers upon an officer the right to take human life, and this delusion had in the present case tragic consequences.'

    " All evidence of these atrocities was omitted at Colthurst's court martial. It was only against the strongest protest from the military that Sir John Simon insisted that testimony in this matter be presented to the commission holding the enquiry. But nothing was ever done about two other murders which responsible eyewitnesses declared Colthurst committed later in that week. The commission ruled that they were ' not within their scope.'

    " At Portobello Bridge, Colthurst posted part of his men under Lieutenant Leslie Wilson to whom he turned over my husband with instructions to shoot him ' forthwith ' if there was any sniping at him and his raiders. Then Colthurst led his party on over the bridge and to Alderman James Kelly's tobacco shop. Before entering it they flung live bombs into the place. Then they sacked the premises and took prisoners the shopman and two editors Thomas Dickson and Patrick Maclntyre. Together with my husband they were all marched back to the barracks.

    " As it happened Dickson, a cripple, had published a loyalist newspaper, the Eye Opener, and Maclntyre paper, the Searchlight, was also a loyalist publication. Alderman Kelly had helped to recruit for the British army. But Colthurst had mistaken the latter for Alderman Tom Kelly, a Sinn Feiner, and their combined protests were unavailing.

    " Shortly before 10 o'clock the next morning Colthurst again demanded my husband from the guard, together with the two other editors. Besides Wilson and Dobbin, Lieutenant Tooley was in charge of the guard of 18 men. To them he stated he was ' going to shoot Skeffington and the other two.' According to their own testimony these subordinate officers delivered the three prisoners to Colthurst without protest. They also told off seven men with rifles to accompany Colthurst to the barracks' yard.

    " This yard was about 12 feet long and 6 feet wide. As the three prisoners walked away from the firing squad, and when they had reached the end of the yard, Colthurst gave the order to fire, and all three dropped in their tracks, dead.

    " The British authorities prevented my ever seeing my husband's body, and when I attempted to have an inquest held, refused permission.

    " Colthurst presently made a report of the triple murder after Major Rosborough ordered him to do so, and it was duly sent to headquarters at Dublin Castle. The report was altogether a fabrication and, subsequently, he was ordered to make a second report. Meantime, however, he kept his command without even a reprimand.

    " Later in the day of the murder of the three editors, Colthurst was in charge of troops in Camden Street when Councillor Richard O' Carroll one of the labour leaders in the Dublin City Council surrendered. Marched to the
    barracks' yard, his hands above his head, O'Carroll walked to his death. Colthurst shot him in the chest. To a soldier who expressed doubt as to the effect of Colthurst's bullet, the latter replied, ' Never mind, he'll die later.' Then he ordered the unconscious man to be dragged out into the street and left there. The driver of a bread van picked him up, but the military interfered, and took him back to Portobello Barracks. Ten days later he died in his wife's arms. They had sent for her at the last, and she arrived in time to hear him whisper a dying statement in her ear a statement she later repeated to me.

    " Three weeks later Mrs. O'Carroll gave birth to a son.

    " On the same day Colthurst arrested a boy whom he suspected of having Sinn Fein information. When the boy denied it, Colthurst ordered him to kneel in the street and, as the boy raised his hand to cross himself, shot him in the back.

    " In both these cases the British authorities refused to order an enquiry.

    " Meanwhile, I was vainly seeking my husband. All sorts of rumours reached me : that he had been wounded and was in a hospital ; that he had been shot by a looter ; arrested by the police. I also heard that he had been executed, but this I refused to believe it seemed incredible. I clung to the belief that even if he had been condemned to die, he would be tried before a jury, for martial law did not apply to non-combatants, and that I would be notified. Of course, the reason of the silence is now clear. It was hoped
    my husband's case would be like that of so many others who ' disappeared ' and whose whereabouts could never be traced. Thirteen days after the murder of my husband and the other two editors, Mr. Tennant stated in the House of Commons in answer to a question that ' no prisoner has been shot in Dublin without a trial.'

    " All day Wednesday and Thursday I enquired in vain, and Friday came without my having any positive information of my husband's fate. On Friday I tried to see a physician connected with the Portobello Barracks, but the police stopped me. I discovered I was under police supervision as I continually was for several years afterwards. Meantime, houses were being raided and pillaged. Mme. Markievicz's home was broken into on Wednesday and all her pictures and other valuables stolen. Whole streets were ransacked and the inhabitants terrified ; the soldiers ruining everything within reach of their bayonets.

    " Soldiers were everywhere selling their loot openly in the streets. Officers were shamelessly displaying ' souvenirs. '

    " To allay my terrible anxiety my two sisters, Mrs. Kettle and Mrs. Culhane, agreed to try to get into Portobello Barracks. On their arrival they were immediately put under arrest and a drumhead court martial held upon them. Colthurst presided. Their crime was that they had been seen talking to Sinn Feiners. Colthurst refused to give them any information, declaring he knew nothing whatever of Sheehy Skeffington. Finally, they were marched off under armed guard and admonished not to mention what had taken place.

    " That afternoon I managed to find the father of the murdered boy Coade. He told me he had seen my husband's body in the barracks' mortuary when he had gone for his son's body. This a priest later confirmed, but he could give me no other information.

    " I went home shortly after 6 o'clock, and was putting my little boy to bed when the maid noticed soldiers lining up around the house. She became terrified and dashed out the back door, carrying my son with her. I ran after them, for I knew the house would be surrounded and feared they might be shot down if seen running. As I ran down the hall a volley was fired through the front door and windows. The shots were fired without warning, and without any demand having been made on us to open the door.

    " They broke in the windows with their rifle butts and swarmed all over the house, some going to the roof. Colthurst was in command. He rushed upon us and ordered us to throw up our hands. Behind him was a squad of men
    with fixed bayonets. The raiders numbered about 40 and included Colonel H. T. N. Allat, Royal Irish Rifles, who was later killed in the vicinity of the South Dublin Union. On this occasion, however, he exercised no command.

    " Colthurst ordered us to be removed to the front room to be shot if we stirred. For three hours they searched the house while we stood motionless, closely guarded by men with drawn bayonets, with others outside the house with levelled rifles pointed at us. The house was sacked, everything of value being removed books, pictures, toys, linen and household goods. I could hear officers and men jeering as they turned over my private possessions. One of the soldiers (a Belfast man) seemed ashamed, and said, ' I didn't enlist for this. They are taking the whole bloomin' house with them.'

    " All my private letters, including many from my husband before our marriage, his articles, a manuscript play the labour of a lifetime were taken. Colthurst had brought my husband's keys, stolen from his body, and with them opened his study which he always kept locked.

    " Throughout the raid, Colthurst's demeanour was that of a sane man. He addressed several questions to me, and was coldly insolent in manner But he was quite self- possessed. His men took his orders without question. My
    sisters are certain he was sane when he questioned them at the drumhead court martial. He was not the same man, unquestionably, a friend would have found him on the golf links, for instance. But British officers are all like that. It is only on occasions like this that one sees them as they really are. Of insanity, there was no suggestion. Colthurst was simply the Englishman with the veneer removed.

    " It was during this raid that he came across some papers which later he falsely endorsed as having been ' found on Skeffington's person.' This was proved at the enquiry.

    " A second raid was made May i, during my absence, and this time a little temporary maid was taken under guard to the barracks. She was held there a week, the charge against her being that she was found in my house. On this same day, Major Sir Francis Vane, the second in command at Portobello, was relieved of his command by Lieut. Col. McCammond for his persistent efforts to have Colthurst put under arrest. He was told to give up his post and hand it over to Colthurst. Thus the latter was promoted six days after the murders. Later he was sent in charge of a detachment of troops to Newry, and not until May n was he put under ' close arrest.' Are these facts consistent with the theory of lunacy ?

    " Sir Francis Vane made a genuine effort to see justice done. Finding his superior officers at Portobello would do nothing, he went to Dublin Castle and saw Colonel Kinnard and General Friend as well as Major Price, head of the Intelligence department. They all deprecated the ' fuss ' and refused to act.

    " By order of Colonel McCammond, bricklayers were brought to the barracks, Sunday, May 7. They removed the bloodstained bricks in the wall and replaced them with new bricks.

    " Sir Francis Vane crossed to London early in May, interviewed Lord Kitchener, before whom he laid the facts, and I have reason to believe it was Kitchener who ordered Colthurst's arrest. But the order was disregarded by General Maxwell, then in command in Dublin. The net result of Sir Francis Vane's efforts was that he was dismissed from the service by secret report of General Maxwell deprived of his rank of major and refused a hearing at the court martial. Yet previously he had been mentioned in despatches by Brigadier-General McConochine for bravery.

    " Without my knowledge my husband's body was exhumed and reburied in Glasnevin, May 8. Originally it had been put in a sack and buried in the barracks' yard. The remains were given to his father on condition that the funeral would be at early morn and that I be not notified. My husband's father consented unwillingly to do this on the assurance of General Maxwell that obedience would result in the trial and punishment of the murderer.

    " On that day I managed to get to John Dillon and told him my story. Three days later he read my statement in the House of Commons in the course of his wonderful speech describing the horror he had seen in Dublin. It was that speech that compelled Mr. Asquith to cross at once to Ireland. Regarding my statement, Mr. Asquith said :

    " ' I confess I do not and cannot believe it. Does anyone suppose that Sir John Maxwell has any object in shielding officers and soldiers, if there be such, who have been guilty of such un-gentlemanlike, such inhuman, conduct ? It is the last thing the British army would dream of.'

    " He went to Ireland, and found every word of my statement true, as verified at the enquiry. He found other horrors the North Kings Street atrocity, for instance surpassing mine. Yet the military shielded the murderers and hushed all enquiries. The Royal Commission that was appointed to enquire into the causes of the rebellion early in May did its work thoroughly, but no enquiry was permitted as to the atrocities committed by British troops in Dublin.

    " The enquiry connected with Colthurst's murder of my husband and the other editors was limited in scope to the consideration of only these three murders collateral evidence of other murders of which he had been admittedly guilty being ruled out. Witnesses were not sworn. Colthurst himself at that time committed to Broadmoor Insane Asylum was not present.

    " Colthurst had been found insane by the earlier court martial, a wooden tribunal presided over by Lord Cheylesmore and twelve senior officers All the witnesses were military. I was not allowed to present evidence. My counsel, Mr. Healy, declared that, ' Never since the trial of Christ was there a greater travesty of justice.'

    " During the court martial Colthurst was under no restraint. He stayed at the Kilworth hotel in Dawson Street with his family, and for several weeks after he had been found ' insane ' he continued at liberty. When Dublin feeling began to run high, he was finally taken to Broadmoor Asylum to be ' detained during the King's pleasure ' but he still held his rank as captain and drew half -pay for several months. Eventually he was ' retired/ but was not dismissed from the service !

    "In an attempt to force the British Government to administer justice, I went to London in July to interview editors and members of Parliament. My efforts resulted in my being sent for by Mr. Asquith, July 19. I brought with me as a witness to the interview, Miss Muriel Matters, a well-known suffragist. Mr. Asquith received us at 10, Downing Street and began by explaining the difficulties in the way of holding an adequate enquiry. The House, he said, would refuse a sworn enquiry, and that alone could be satisfactory. He wanted to know if I would be satisfied with an inadequate enquiry which was ' the best ' he could offer. I told him I should not be satisfied with any enquiry that he told me in advance would be inadequate. I told him also that if I were not satisfied I should take further action.

    " I had even then in view a visit to America to tell an honest country what British militarism could do.

    " Then Mr. Asquith carefully broached the subject of ' compensation ' in lieu of an enquiry. Previously proposals had been made to me, from various unofficial sources, to accept compensation, most of the arguments being based on my boy's future. Mr. Asquith put the proposition ever so delicately, but it was obviously his only object in sending for me. He was mellow and hale, with a rosy, chubby face and silver hair, suggesting a Father Christmas. But he never looked me straight in the face once during the interview !

    I listened to his persuasive talk about compensation, and finally told him the only compensation I would consider was a full, public enquiry into my husband's murder. He finally said he would give his answer to Mr. Dillon, and so our interview ended.

    " Out of this interview came the setting up of the Commission of Enquiry with Sir John Simon at its head. But Asquith narrowly restricted the scope of the enquiry as I have pointed out. My counsel was not allowed to examine
    or cross-examine any witness. All witnesses who might have testified damagingly to the military were either dead or scattered to points where they could not be reached. And yet the report of the commission established many important facts : the promotion of Colthurst, the dismissal of Sir Francis Vane, and the raids on my house for incriminatory evidence after the murder. Doubt was cast on the insanity of Colthurst, and grave censure passed on the military.

    " Finally, let no one imagine that my husband's case was isolated, the one mad act of an irresponsible officer. It was part of an organised programme. There is evidence, sworn and duly attested, in Irish hands today of almost fifty other murders of unarmed civilians and disarmed prisoners some of them boys and some women committed by British soldiers during Easter Week. The North Staffords murdered 14 men in North King Street, and buried them in the cellars of their houses. In the British official reports two such murders are admitted. They are ' justified ' in a statement made by General Sir John Maxwell at the time as follows :

    " ' Possibly unfortunate incidents, which we should regret now, may have occurred. It did not, perhaps, always follow that where shots were fired
    from a particular house the inmates were always necessarily guilty, but how were the soldiers to discriminate ? They saw their comrades killed beside
    them by hidden and treacherous assailants, and it is even possible that under the horrors of this peculiar attack some of them saw red. That is the
    inevitable consequence of a rebellion of this kind. It was allowed to come into being among these people and could not be suppressed by velvet-glove methods.' "

    Mrs. Skeffington left Ireland for America in December, 1916. She went with the fixed purpose of exposing British atrocities to the people of a then neutral country. She hoped to damage British prestige in the United States, and especially to do her best to prevent America from entering the war. As she herself has stated, she was under police and military surveillance at this time, a fact that stamps her eluding them a feat equal to some of Collins' best. This is her own story of her outwitting the British authorities.

    " I managed to obtain a passport by assuming another woman's personality," she began. " With the help of her Scottish family I learned to dress and make up like her in every way. I cannot give further details on this point as others are involved and our fight for independence is not yet over.

    " My first goal was a Scotch port from which it had been arranged I was to take ship for an American port. The boat I took for the Irish Sea crossing did not, as was usual, stop at Liverpool for mails. Ordinarily all passengers were questioned and searched at that port, but I was unfortunately spared that ordeal as a result of a submarine scare which caused us to make a wide detour away from the English coast.

    " Before starting on the journey perhaps the more risky because I insisted on taking my boy with me I had carefully arranged an alibi to account for my absence from Dublin. I let it be generally known that I had fallen ill and had gone to the home of a friend in the country to be nursed. Letters I had prepared were posted by this friend every day while I was on the high seas and in America.

    " Providence again came to my aid although it did not seem so at the time when my seven-year-old son developed diphtheria on the eve of our departure from the Scotch port. It was necessary to put him in a hospital at
    once, and there he was isolated for ten weeks under the assumed name which I had adopted. Finally, when he was released, to my astonishment he was not only very changed in appearance, but had acquired a strong Scotch accent !

    " To further my chances of eventual success, and realising that I could be of no use to my boy while he was in the hospital, 1 returned to Dublin. I had recovered from my ' illness,' and resumed my former occupation as a teacher. Thus I put the sleuths off the scent. My second trip across the Irish Sea in possession of the false passport was a relatively easy matter. At Liverpool the authorities subjected Greeks, Americans and Irish aboard the boat to a rigourous examination, but my Scotch passport and passable ' burr' let me escape with a question or two.

    " The most difficult part of my task was travelling in Ireland itself. There was, of course, no chance of my leaving from the port of Dublin. I had to go north by a roundabout route, during the course of which I adopted a series of disguises. At one stage of the journey I was an elderly invalid; at another I was a touring actress. These were necessary transitions from my own identity to that of the Scotch woman named in my passport.

    " Of course the passport was bogus, but, like my make up, it was good enough to deceive the authorities who examined it. The turning out of those bogus passports is a story by itself which, one day, perhaps, can be safely told. But as yet no one in Ireland knows how soon bogus passports
    may again become vitally necessary !

    " My little boy was obviously an invalid, and as such an object of compassion a fact that served to distract attention from me. Also I encouraged him to chatter in the hearing of the British authorities, and his suddenly acquired Scottish burr was better for my purposes than a dozen
    passports !

    " I remained in the United States for eighteen months, lecturing on ' British Militarism as I have known it.' In this period I addressed audiences in every large city from New York to San Francisco, and from the State of Washington to Texas. I spoke at women's clubs, at universities, including Harvard, Chicago and Columbia, at peace and labour conferences, and, of course, Irish assemblies. I was arrested in San Francisco for speaking against conscription for Ireland after America had entered the war. But I
    was not detained nor even charged.

    " For several weeks I lobbied Congress and the Senate, and obtained an interview with President Wilson. I found him sympathetic but guarded.

    " The British in America were not idle at this time. They tried many times to put an end to my activities. Once their agents attempted to get me into Canada by inducing me to board the wrong train out of Buffalo. They approached me as an Irish reception committee. A stranger put me right just as the train was about to pull out of the station. Had I remained aboard, I should have been deported to England the moment I was in Canada.

    " The American people were very kind to me. Individually and collectively they are extremely warm-hearted, hospitable and sympathetic. I made many enduring friendships with Americans that have stood the test of time. I found American women especially helpful women like Jane Adams and Mary McDougall of Chicago, Alice Park of Palo Alto, and Katherine Lecky and Dr. Gertrude Kelly of New York. If for any reason I had to live outside Ireland, I should choose the United States as a second home-

    " Having readopted my own personality as soon I landed in America, the task of returning to Ireland was no easy matter. At last, after much difficulty and delay, I obtained a passport from the British under restrictive conditions. It permitted me to go to Liverpool only ; I should not be allowed to go to Ireland, but must remain in England. I told them I was willing to chance their being able to keep me in England, and so took passage to Liverpool, where I arrived in July, 1918. There I was closely examined by the military who threatened me with dire penalties if I failed to report regularly to the police or tried to leave Liverpool. These threats I naturally ignored.

    " First, one of my sisters obtained permission to come to Liverpool and take my little boy back to Dublin. Then I disappeared for a fortnight with the help of friends, a fast car, and some disguises. Eventually I landed in Ireland at the end of July as a stowaway in a tramp steamship. For two nights and a day I hid in the pitch dark, grimy hold without food or water. We landed south of Dublin and, after some delay, I was smuggled ashore, clad in ship's
    dungarees, in the small hours of the morning.

    " The British still believe I managed to elude them by disguising myself as a nun, and nuns were searched regularly for weeks before it was discovered I was back in Ireland.

    " Almost as soon as I resumed my ordinary life having in the interim transacted some special business which I cannot divulge at this time I was arrested and deported to Holloway jail in London for the duration of the ' disorder ' in Ireland. I hunger struck, was released, and finally permitted to return to my home.

    " By this time Colthurst had been released from the in- sane asylum ' cured.' So far as I know it is the only case on record of a man found guilty of murder but insane, who has ever obtained his release from an English criminal lunatic asylum. It was the fact that he had been released that undoubtedly led the British authorities to permit me to return to Ireland. Public opinion in England itself was aroused. It was going too far Colthurst at liberty and his victim's widow imprisoned !

    " Since then I have been arrested several times ; my home has been raided several times, and on one occasion I suffered concussion of the brain as a result of having been clubbed with the butt end of a rifle in the hands of a Royal Irish Constable.

    " The last I heard of Colthurst he was occupying a minor official post in Essex. His stay in the Broadmoor Asylum lasted about eighteen months from July, 1916, to February, 1918. His release was effected by a campaign conducted by the Morning Post and the Spectator, both of which newspapers insisted quite correctly that he was not insane. I go further, and declare that he never was insane ! So far as I have been able to discover, no formal steps were ever taken to establish his restoration to sanity.



    " One final word about Adjutant Morgan, the only Catholic in the Royal Irish Rifles, and the only man at Portobello Barracks who treated my husband kindly. Very shortly after my husband's murder he was removed from
    the regiment, deprived of his adjutancy, and sent to the front ' under a cloud.' There he was killed in 1917."

    I have also read that she raised 40,000 in the US and gave it to Michael Collins just to hurry the Military Campaign along and
    " His family no longer live in Ireland. Some of his property he owned some castles in Cork was burned to the ground last year. It would seem to be fairly safe to assume that Ireland has seen the last of Captain Bowen-Colthurst.



    Here she is with Mrs Pearse in 1921

    742.jpg

    So yes she moved and shook.

    She was a radical.

    http://www.hannashouse.ie/PDFs/PearseHouse.pdf

    Reading about her I wonder if her behavior had a part to play in her husbands murder but Hell Hath no fury like Hanna Sheehy Skeffington.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Yahew wrote: »
    Just read this on Sheehy-Skeffington on wikipedia


    I'd say that was what lost Ireland. Killing a conservative shop-keeper and pro-British journalist is going to turn both those classes against you.

    I just looked up Hanna's father David Sheehy and it puts a different spin on how everybody was connected and how Hanna was able to move so freely.

    Francis Sheehy-Skeffington was the son-in-law of a sitting MP and brother in law of former MP and serving British Army officer Tom Kettle.

    Note the IRB & Land League connections

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheehy

    David Sheehy (1844 – 17 December 1932)[1] was an Irish nationalist politician. He was a Member of Parliament (MP) from 1885 to 1900 and from 1903 to 1918, taking his seat as a member of the Irish Parliamentary Party in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Contents

    URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sheehy#"]hide[/URL
    URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Sheehy&action=edit&section=1"]edit[/URL Political career

    Born in Limerick, he had been a student for the Catholic priesthood at the Irish College in Paris but had left it and made a runaway match with a convent schoolgirl, Bessie McCoy, who eloped with him.[2] He had also been a member of the IRB and was active in the Land League. He was imprisoned on six occasions[3] for various anti-government activities.[4]
    At the 1885 general election he was elected unopposed as MP for South Galway and held that seat until the 1900 general election.[5] His re-election in Galway was unopposed in 1886 and 1895.[5] However, at the 1892 general election, when the Irish Party split over the leadership of Charles Stewart Parnell and Sheehy joined the anti-Parnellite majority, he was opposed by a Parnellite candidate, who he defeated with a majority of nearly two-to-one. In the same election he also stood in Waterford City, but failed to unseat the Parnellite John Redmond.[6]
    The two factions of the Irish Parliamentary Party reunited for the general election in 1900, but Sheehy did not stand again and was out of Parliament for the next three years. However, after the death in August 1903 of James Laurence Carew, the Independent Nationalist MP for South Meath, Sheehy was selected as the Irish Parliamentary Party MP candidate in the resulting by-election in October 1903. Carew had apparently been elected in 1900 as a result of a series of errors in nominations, and his predecessor John Howard Parnell stood again, this time as an Independent Nationalist. Sheehy won the contest with a majority of more than two-to-one, and held the seat until he stood down at the 1918 general election.[7]
    URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Sheehy&action=edit&section=2"]edit[/URL Personal and family life

    He and his wife Bessie had seven children, of whom six survived to adulthood. One of his daughters, Mary (born 1884), married the MP Thomas Kettle. Another, Hanna (born 1877), married the writer Francis Skeffington. Kathleen married Frank O'Brien and was the mother of Conor Cruise O'Brien. Margaret (born 1879), an amateur playwright, married Frank Culhane with whom she had four children and after being widowed married her godson, the poet Michael Casey. Sheehy's two sons were Richard and Eugene.[8]
    The writer James Joyce often visited the family home in Belvedere Square, where musical evenings and theatricals took place every Sunday evening. Joyce entertained the family with Italian songs. In 1900 Margaret wrote a play in which the Sheehy's and their friends, including Joyce, took part. Joyce took a particular liking to Eugene and had a long-lasting but unrequited crush on Mary.[9] Joyce's novel 'Ulysses' wittily describes an encounter between Bessie Sheehy and a Father John Conmee, S.J.
    When David Sheehy died in Dublin aged 88 it was reported that he was the oldest surviving member of the Irish Parliamentary Party.[10]

    Interesting that the Sheehy's are in Ulysses.

    If James Joyce had married Mary Sheehy -I am not so sure that he would have completed some of his books or had them published :D

    Edit - to include the Dev Connection

    [Fr.] Eugene Sheehy

    Life
    1841-1917; b. Broadford, Co. Limerick; br. David Sheehy, MP; ed. Mungret College, and Irish College, Paris; ord. 1868; priest at Kilmallock, co. Limerick, 1868-84; president of local Land League branch, being called “The Land League Priest”; imprisoned, 1881; eccles. adminstrator in Bruree, 1884-86; Parish Priest, 1886-1909, when Eamon de Valera numbered among his altar-boys; organised a boycott of the Gubbins family of landlords on account of evictions; moved to Dublin on resignation and was friendly with IRB leaders; visited America for Supreme Council of the IRB, 1910; gave spiritual aid to the Volunteers in the GPO during the 1916 Rising.

    [ top ]

    Notes
    Namesake: a nephew, son of David Sheehy, was a contemporary of James Joyce's and was named Eugene after him [infra].


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Was Sheehy-Skeffingtons murder well known at the time or was it overshadowed by the Rising itself? It seems to me a crime that didnt garner the notoriety that the facts warranted.
    When his stance is considered it is hard understand any reason for his killing- They killed the Rising leaders for 'treason' but what was the justification for killing Skeffington?

    there were quite a few murders during the Rising most of which were reported and followed up in some manner (not always as well as we'd like today).

    As well as Sheehy-Skeffington, Bowen-Colthurt murdered Coade, Dickson and MacIntyre (the last 2 were editors of Loyalist magazines).

    Sgt Flood and his RDF section were responsible for the murder of 2 BA officers (2nd Lt Lucas and Lt Worswick) and 2 Guinness employees (William Rice and Cecil Dockeray)

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=900259

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=900623


    Pte Henry Watts, 6th Royal Irish Lancers, murdered Royal Navy artificer Robert Glaister and attempted to murder a William Gray
    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=899659


    James Healy and Patrick Bealen murdered by unidentified members of the North Staffordshire Regt in North King St.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Skeffington was a genuinely nice guy and killing him was probably in the same league as anyone attacking David Norris.

    frhannagrad.jpg

    Here is a piece from a website from a magazine at the time.
    The Skeffy gang appears to have had an unusually lively time of it last Saturday in the Phoenix Park. Apparently the window-breaking of the Skeffy gang induced an extra large audience to the Suffer pitch in the Phoenix on Saturday. It appears by all accounts to have been a humorously hostile audience. Skeffy, the only male, apparently, of the gang present, came in for some banter and hustling from the crowd. There were cries of 'cut his whiskers off' ... 'the breeches should be taken off him and a skirt put on.'
    The Leader, 22 June 1913.

    http://www.scoilnet.ie/womeninhistory/content/unit5/franchiseleague.html

    These were also the "catholic" elite middle classes - a college lecturer - so as a martyr to change public opinion

    He was not , John Connolly of the Irish Citizens' Army who killed the unarmed police constable James O'Brien outside Dublin Castle on Easter Monday in 1916 or Constance Markievitz who shot Constable Michael Lahiffe in St Stephen's Green shortly afterwards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    MarchDub wrote: »
    Well as per my previous post - so what? This is typical of any war situation and the expression of "wartime necessity" comes from the so called accepted actions of armies and governments engaged in war. Check out what was going on in the Great War - or even after to the losers at Versailles. The rebels also commandeered milk and food supplies from delivery trucks - oh dear another wrist slapping? Compared to the wholesale 'looting' that the British had done to the entire country [not to mention the world] for over 700 years this is a joke.


    But more significantly they took over the means of communications -

    From Peter Berresford Ellis

    This is a very good point because many issues with armies etc come down to logistics and supply chain & communication lines.

    You could argue why the Germans lost WWII in Russia etc and one of their problems was that they " ran out of petrol" (simplistic).

    It is very telling that the British Army dealt with all civilians as rebels and lost the "hearts and minds" of the people.They drove the idea home to the Irish Catholic population that they were different.

    The policy of "Killing Home Rule with kindness" turned into "Killing" and that was a major disaster.In fact, it was not something the rebels had predicted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    CDfm wrote: »
    Skeffington was a genuinely nice guy and killing him was probably in the same league as anyone attacking David Norris.
    Good analogy.
    He was not , John Connolly of the Irish Citizens' Army who killed the unarmed police constable James O'Brien outside Dublin Castle on Easter Monday in 1916 or Constance Markievitz who shot Constable Michael Lahiffe in St Stephen's Green shortly afterwards.
    This is often stated so I thought their must be good evidence of both events. So I Googled and a link* came up with instead Sean Connolly who " firing the first shot that killed a British soldier, Castle guard James O'Brien "

    However this other link** states " The first fatality was at 12.10 p.m. that Easter Monday. A policeman named O'Brien was shot dead as he tried to shut the Cork Hill Gate on an advancing party of ten men and nine women, of the Irish Citizens Army. "

    Sean Connolly himself was then killed hoisting a flag over city hall and became the first Rebel casualty.

    *http://islandireland.com/Pages/history/archives/postcards/easter6.html
    **http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question45463.html

    If you anyone can add any more information to the above I'd be grateful.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Good analogy.

    thanks - it is hard to capture that period accurately and translate it.

    This is often stated so I thought their must be good evidence of both events. So I Googled and a link* came up with instead Sean Connolly who " firing the first shot that killed a British soldier, Castle guard James O'Brien "

    If you anyone can add any more information to the above I'd be grateful.

    I have made this mistake before and and thanks for the correction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    So was Skeffington against the rising but for what the rising sought?
    As he was a pacifist I wonder what he would have thought of the war of independence. He would most likely have prefered the Ghandi approach to that of Collins and friends.
    Did hannah play an important role in the war of independence given that the most open opposition to British rule in 1920-22 was in Cork?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I don't think you can jump into what Francis would have done because he & Hanna had never envisaged the situation where he would have been shot.

    So that is an impossible question to answer as he was neither Gandhi or Jesus.

    Hanna seems to have respected his memory and does not to appear to have looked for reprisals against the Colthurst family.

    Where she did (and that is not the correct word) IMO is that she articulated Frank's execution post rising 1916. She had lost her husband -one if life's innocents - and if it could happen to them it could happen to anyone. People lost kids too.

    The leaders of the Rising were not percieved as martyrs at the time but people like Frank, the editors and the teenager returning home from mass were.

    She didn't become a professional victim.She made people think and people doubted their inclusion as citizens in the United Kingdom and that was the reality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    I'd say he would be alot closer to Ghandi though given the couples stance against religon!!!!!!!

    Skeffington did not support the rising and tryed to organise people to stop the looting that accompanied it. James Connolly dismissed these attempts as he thought that the looting created another headache for the British. An interesting perspective from him given his pro- working class socialist background.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    CDfm wrote: »

    Constance Markievitz who shot Constable Michael Lahiffe in St Stephen's Green shortly afterwards.
    Here is more on the death of Lahiffe. Once again two of the most discredited 'historians' Myers and Dudley Edwards are behind the rumour and in typical Gmobeen state style, it's become ' fact ' :rolleyes:

    "There is an incident from the 1916 Rising often cited by its detractors, yet I have never yet managed to verify it, and have come to the conclusion that it is an urban myth. In spite of the paucity of evidence, many journalists continue to refer to it as to as undisputed fact."

    "The rumour is frequently referred to by Kevin Myers and Ruth Dudley Edwards. I informed Mr Myers of the lack of evidence to support his claims and challenged him to provide a source unconnected with Max Caulfield. He was evasive and mentioned Charles Townshend's book on the Easter Rising, which does not mention Countess Markievicz in relation to the incident. Myers continues to repeat his allegations as facts. "

    http://livinghistory.ie/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1511


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    CDfm wrote: »
    " Opposite Rathmines Catholic Church the column came upon two boys who had been attending the service that evening and were returning to their homes. Colthurst stopped and asked them if they did not know that martial
    law had been proclaimed, and that they could be ' shot like dogs.' The elder of the boys, J. J. Coady, a lad of 17, made no reply but started to walk away. ' Bash him, Colthurst ordered, and a soldier broke the boy's jaw with the butt end of his rifle, knocking him down. Colthurst whipped out his revolver and shot him dead. The body was later carried to the barracks.

    " My husband protested against this wanton murder and was told by Colthurst to say his prayers as he probably would be the next.
    This fella Colthurst seems to have been a right nasty piece of work, almost psycopathic behaviour.

    Here's more on Colthrust. Indeed I wasn't far off the mark with regard to his almost psycopathic behaviour. I go so far to say he had indeed a sadistic mental disorder " Captain Bowen-Colthurst had had sixteen years' service in the British army. His family had settled in Ireland in Cromwell's time and been given grants of land confiscated from the Irish. At the court-martial held in Richmond Barracks, Dublin, June 6, 1916, fellow officers of Colthurst's testified to his cruelty to natives in India and to his having tortured dumb animals while on service there. After the battle of Mons, according to the testimony of Major-General Bird, Colthurst's ' eccentricity ' which had expressed itself in his recklessly sacrificing his men and practising cruelty on German prisoners resulted in his being sent home from the front."

    http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com/Michael_Collins_own_Story/12SHEEHY_SKEFFINGTON.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I have read somewhere else of Countess Markievicz shooting someone and thats what you do in an armed rising. It was probably in the context of the "Gay old Ireland "thread and it was not an eye witness account.

    Ruth Dudley Edwards did a real hatchet job on Pearse and . We did a Pearse thread here and for a much quoted "expert" on Pearse she had no real knowledge of his early life at all or his extended family, half brother & sister & nephew who lived with the Pearses from time to time and was a part time teacher in St Enda's.

    If Ruthie is the source I will have to take a pass.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    CDfm wrote: »

    And she was O'Briens aunt .

    So she was exceptionally psychologically tough and was from Kanturk in Co Cork.

    I might have you on Cork here CD- was Colthurst not a corkonian?
    Capt. J.C.
    Bowen-Colthurst, a member of a Co. Cork landed gentry family.
    from
    http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/10.2.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I might have you on Cork here CD- was Colthurst not a corkonian? from
    http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/10.2.pdf

    what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=dpKbWonMghwC&pg=PA93&dq=%22+make+a+man+a+horse%22&num=100&ei=0YVZSIWXCIiSjgG37bGIDA#v=onepage&q=%22%20make%20a%20man%20a%20horse%22&f=false


    Captain John Colthurst Bowen-Colthurst1

    M, #273173, b. 12 August 1880, d. December 1965

    Last Edited=4 Feb 2010
    Consanguinity Index=0.78% Captain John Colthurst Bowen-Colthurst was born on 12 August 1880.2 He is the son of Robert Walter Travers Bowen-Colthurst and Georgina de Bellasis Greer.1,2 He married Hon. Rosalinda Laetitia Butler, daughter of Robert St. John FitzWalter Butler, 16th/26th Baron Dunboyne and Caroline Maude Blanche Probyn, on 2 April 1910.1 He died in December 1965 at age 85.2
    Captain John Colthurst Bowen-Colthurst was educated at Haileybury College, Haileybury, Hertfordshire, England.2 He gained the rank of Captain in the service of the 2nd Royal Irish Rifles.2 He fought in the Boer War between 1900 and 1902.2 He fought in the Tibet Expedition in 1904.2 He fought in the First World War, where he suffered shell-shock.2 He was invested as a Fellow, Royal Geographical Society (F.R.G.S.).2 He was on duty in Dublin during the Easter Rising, and ordered the shooting of a Francis Sheehy-Skeffington (a noncombatant pacifist endeavouring to stop looting).2 He emigrated to Canada arriving on 1916.2 He was afterwards found to be mentally deranged.2 He lived at Terrace, British Columbia, Canada.1




    http://thepeerage.com/p27318.htm




    THE EASTER RISING of 1916 which occurred exactly 84 years ago today, was marked by many
    extraordinary events, but surely the most disturbing was the summary execution of three journalists - Francis
    Sheehy Skeffington, Thomas Dickson and Patrick McIntyre. It was never suggested that they had the remotest
    connection with the rebels. Sheehy Skeffington, a well-known pacifist and a determined fighter for votes for
    women, was trying to prevent looting when he was arrested. McIntyre, editor of a newspaper called Searchlight,
    and Dickson, editor of The eye-opener, seem to have been picked up casually. All three were brought to
    Portobello Barracks by Capt. Bowen-Colthurst, who hailed from Dripsey, near Cork City.


    http://homepage.eircom.net/~irishhistory/An%20Irishman.htm

    More details and connections



    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sir Francis Fletcher Vane was an hereditary peer born in Dublin of an Irish mother and English father.
    A career officer in the British Army, he was sacked from the Army ('relegated to unemployment') for preventing an Army cover-up of a number of military murders in Dublin during the 1916 Insurrection.
    It was Vane who revealed the murder of the well-known writer and pacifist Francis Sheehy Skeffington, by Captain Bowen-Colthurst.

    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His Pax Britannica in 1904 amplified his stand and he was put on the “retired” list. However, he had become South African correspondent for the Daily News and Manchester Guardian. Then in 1906 he stood as a Liberal candidate in the UK General Election. Although unsuccessful he became active in the anti-war and suffragette campaigns. With the outbreak of the 1914-18 War he felt it was his duty to return to army service again. With the rank of Major he was sent to Ireland as a recruiting officer. When the insurrection took place he was ordered to take command at Portobello Barracks, Dublin. There were about 300 soldiers in the garrison mainly from the Royal Irish Rifles and the Ulster Militia Battalion. Vane went round the area of Rathmines, personally placing observation posts. On Wednesday, April 26, he returned to the barracks.

    It was then that he discovered the activities of Captain J.C. Bowen-Colthurst in his absence.
    Three “suspicious” persons were being held at the barracks. They were the writer Sheehy Skeffington and two journalists Thomas Dickson and Patrick MacIntyre.

    Captain Bowen-Colthurst had decided to conduct some raids and on the night of April 25 he had taken the prisoners with his raiding party to act as hostages, human shields, against all rules of war.
    At Rathmines they came across a 17-year old boy named Coade coming from a church, and, on orders, one of the soldiers smashed the boys jaw with his rifle butt. Then Bowen-Colthurst stood over him and shot the boy, as he lay senseless on the ground.

    The raiding party then proceeded to the home of Alderman James Kelly, a Unionist, but Bowen-Colthurst had mistakenly identified him as a Sinn Féin councillor. They destroyed his house with grenades. Another Dublin councillor, Richard O’Carroll, was also shot by Bowen-Colthurst.
    Returning to barracks, Bowen-Colthurst then ordered his sergeant, William Aldridge, to take the prisoners out and shoot them. This he did, in Bowen-Colthurst’s presence.

    Vane returning to barracks and discovering what had happened had Bowen-Colthurst confined to Barracks pending court martial. On reporting to army headquarters, Vane found his superiors justifying Bowen-Colthurst’s actions. Royal Engineers arrived and repaired the bullet holes in the barracks walls to they could not be seen. Vane was removed from command and Bowen-Colthurst was released and allowed to conduct a vicious raid on Mrs Hannah Sheehy Skeffington’s house for “incriminating evidence”.

    On May 2, Vane left for England and, using contacts, managed to secure a meeting with Field Marshal Lord Kitchener and Bonham Carter, private secretary to the Prime Minister. After two weeks of prevarication, in which Vane was “relegated to unemployment”, on May 18, Lord Chief justice of England,Lord Reading, accepted a military court martial in private so that the Government would be spared a public hearing. Bowen-Colthurst was quickly found guilty but insane . He was confined to Broadmoor criminally insane hospital for one year, then released and allowed to go to Canada where he died in 1965.

    the Government then offered Mrs Hannah Sheehy Skeffington £10,000 compensation. She refused and demanded the full facts be made public and even former President Theodore Roosevelt became interested in the case. Thanks to Vane, the horrors of the murders committed by Bowen-Colthurst became public.

    In 1917 Vane attempted to publish a book on the 1916 insurrection but the proof copies were seized and prevented from publication by the military censors. The manuscript was subsequently lost. This was the first of Vane’s books that was suppressed for he wrote a book recounting incidents from South Africa, the 1914-18 War and the Irish insurrection, which was also seized and suppressed by the military censor.

    He took up residence in Italy in 1918. his wife died there in 1924, and he returned to London’s Bayswater in 1927, leaving Italy after his political views caused him to fall foul of the Fascist Government of Mussolini.

    In 1930 he published his autobiography Agin The Government - Memories and Adventures of Sir Francis Fletcher Vane, giving full details of the Bowen-Cothurst affair.

    British Officers like Vane, General F.P. Crozier, and latterly Captain Fred Holroyd and Major Colin Wallace, have demonstrated that there are occasional army officers of great moral courage who find principles a more powerful force than political expediency.

    [/FONT]http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/hidden/stories/courage.htm

    Questions in Parliment
    HANSARD 1803–2005 1910s 1916 October 1916 19 October 1916 Commons Sitting DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND.
    CAPTAIN BOWEN-COLTHURST.

    HC Deb 19 October 1916 vol 86 c705 705
    § 29. Mr. M'KEAN asked the Chief Secretary if he will say whether Captain Bowen-Colthurst was certified as insane by any competent medical authority; and if he will state the name and qualifications of such authority and the date on which the certificate of insanity was given?
    § Mr. DUKE I am informed that Captain Bowen-Colthurst was found guilty, but insane, by the court-martial which tried him, and that before committal to the Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum he was examined and found insane by Dr. Dawson, Inspector of Lunatic Asylums, at present serving in Ireland as mental specialist to the Forces in Ireland.
    § Mr. DEVLIN May I ask whether the military superiors of Captain Bowen-Colthurst are also insane? Are they still retained?
    § Mr. DUKE I do not understand that there has been any trial or any conclusion on any matter of that kind.
    § Mr. REDDY Give them all medals.
    § Mr. BYRNE Is it not the fact that Captain Bowen-Colthurst was found unfit to control a section of the Army on the battlefields of France fighting the Huns, and will he say why he was allowed to run loose on unarmed citizens in Dublin?
    § Mr. DUKE Captain Bowen-Colthurst was never under the control of the Executive whom I at present represent in this House. He was at all times a military officer, and the Department which represents him in this House is the War Office, and no doubt if a question is addressed to the Secretary of State for War he will answer it. I am not able to do so.
    § Mr. BYRNE Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he was under Major Price or not?
    § Mr. DUKE I have not the least idea.
    § Mr. FLAVIN Can the right hon. Gentleman say at what particular moment did Captain Bowen-Colthurst conveniently become insane?
    Back to CONVICTION OF JOHN MACNEILL.
    Forward to INTERNED AMERICAN CITIZEN.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    CDFM: He was confined to Broadmoor criminally insane hospital for one year, then released and allowed to go to Canada where he died in 1965.
    I have read that he got a full military pension in Canada. He basically got off.


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