A little bit of everything, just faster

nerraw1111

10km time trial

Wasn't dreading this so much as a poor run would be bad for confidence two weeks out from DCM.

2km warm up and off I went from top of chesterfield road. First km came in at 3.34, a bit quick, I was aiming for between 3.40 and 3.45. Felt ok, unsure whether I could sustain it. Kms 2, 3 and 4 were 3.39, 3.39 and 3.40. Really pushing it now and hoping to get halfway as soon as possible so I could start counting down.

Through 5km in 18.18. An unofficial PB. I was onto laps around the playing pitches on acre road. Started to struggle here, bit of an uphill as on the back stretch by the magazine fort. Splits were down to 3.48, 3.46 and 3.44. Through 8km in an unofficial PB at 29.38.

Fairly fupped at this stage, 9th km was the slowest, 3.54, ouch! Back on some flat, final push, 3.43, and come to a spluttering stop.

37.16 for an unofficial, garmin measured PB. Get in! Over the moon with that! Treating myself to a fine independent IPA beer this evening,

nerraw1111

26km lsr 4:54 km avg

Grinded this one out. Literally had a pain in my ass starting this, glute was sore. Knees were creaky. Felt like an age to get to halfway. Lovely section out and back on bull island tho. Last 5km, right calf/Achilles was getting v tight/sore. 2 hours 17. Knackered afterwards. But a good session, small breakfast, no lunch beforehand and no water during.

Two weeks to go!

DogSlySmile

Whats the longest PMP run in your schedule? Im following a mara plan at the moment (i havent decided if im definitely gonna do one yet) but the longest PMP run planned is only 12 miles. Ive never followed a mara plan before but that just doesnt seem long enough???

nerraw1111

Yeah I thought/think the same re PMP races. The furthest I’ve done is 24km/15 miles at pmp following a 6km warm up which is the longest PMP in the schedule. I feel there’s a lack of PMP workouts but like yourself, I’ve never really followed a marathon.

Krusty might be better placed to answer this, his schedule seems to have a fair amount of PMPs and I think he picked his marathon plan based on the number of PMP workouts among other things.

The position I’m in at the moment is that I’m going to give sub 3 a bash but it’s a complete unknown. 15 pmp miles doesn’t seem like a lot but given the training etc, perhaps that’s all you need. I’m following P&D so presumably he knows what he’s talking about.

nerraw1111

In training news, my calf is still sore.

Feels like a calf strain. I rolled a tennis ball under my foot which seems to have helped things. It’s a recurring issue, feet get tight over time which pulls on the calf. Not as sore as yesterday, I could feel the pull while just walking.

Today, it’s not as pronounced. Will give tonight’s session a miss and do core instead. Not panicking, honest. Really, I'm not.

ThePiedPiper

12 PMP miles in a 20/21 mile long run is definitely adequate. For my two sub-3 marathons, this is exactly what I had for the longest PMP runs:

7 miles at 7:15 pace
12 at 6:35-6:50 pace
1 mile warm down

I think the key part of it is that the first 7 miles aren't at too slow a pace, they're really only MP + 30 seconds, so you're not hanging about. All in, it should be in the region of 2:19 - 2:22 to do that session.

My coach, who was a 2:20 marathoner 20 years ago, and still a 2:40 man, discourages me from going beyond 12 PMP miles in the LSRs and is just about happy with me even doing the 12.

For DCM 2011, I pushed it out to 14 miles PMP, but I'm not sure if there was a huge amount of a benefit. A lot can depend on the elevation profile of the course you train on, if it's warm, windy, humid or whatever. I do think that a session with 15 PMP miles would be a bit of a toughie.

You have to remember that when you're doing your 20 mile LSR with 10-12 PMP miles or whatever, you've probably already ran in the region of 35-45 miles during the week, with hard sessions, intervals, tempo and everything else. You're doing it on tired legs. A good taper will do wonders.

nerraw1111

9km recovery run.

Test to see how my left glute and right calf were feeling. Not great was the answer. Calf still niggling and tight while pain in the glute, while bearable, never left. Calf should be ok, given previous experience.

Will rest again tomorrow with plenty of stretching in between.

Micilin Muc

You've done a lot of good work, I don't think you'll lose anything by missing a few runs between now and DCM.

Also, are you considering the Art O'Neill Ultra this year?

nerraw1111

Micilin Muc wrote: »

You've done a lot of good work, I don't think you'll lose anything by missing a few runs between now and DCM.

Also, are you considering the Art O'Neill Ultra this year?

True. Given the fairly easy sessions I’m missing I’m not going to worry too much. As long as the glute clears up soon. Stretching like there is no tomorrow! Calf seems ok though.

Definitely considering Art O’Neill. Given the DCM training, it’s only a matter of maintaining the long runs over November and December.

nerraw1111

Not a lot of running.

Glute still sore. 6km run on Saturday. Legs felt ok, still a dull ache.

Didn't do anything over the weekend. Soaked the legs in epsom salts, lots of stretching.

Out today for 17km. Felt ok, calves were grand. But glute was still sore. Not a sharp pain, just constantly there. Didn't seem to affect the run really but wasn't going anywhere close to race pace. Will try and bring physio forward.

nerraw1111

Hold your breath time. Following the run on Monday, by backside was killing me. Tying shoelaces was uncomfortable, nervy pinching feeling. Over to my dad’s (2.40 runner) for advice. Sports massage this morning. It appears the pain is nerve related. He got right into the trigger points and the pain was something else. Somewhat ironically, running may not be the culprit but the car. I didn’t drive that much until recently and a long 6 hour return trip recently may be the reason.

Hopefully that massage will do the trick, there doesn’t seem to be any underlying cause. Definitely not taper madness. Honest. Seriously.

Still, dented the confidence. A 3.05 target is looming. Trouble is, I've zero experience in what I can do, other than blind trust in P & D and that 15 miles at PMP.

Arrrggggggghhhh. I have entered Art O'Neill as back up though

ThePiedPiper

Nerraw,
I've actually been in a situation very similar to your own. 5 days before the Seville marathon 2011, I pulled a muscle in my back putting RFR Jr into the car of all things! I literally could not run 200 yards the day before the race, and was in a lot of pain even walking up to the start line. But, adrenaline or something just kicked in when the gun went off. I nearly collapsed half way through when I made a sudden movement turning around to look behind me, but apart from that, the pain really did magically disappear for 2 hours and 58 minutes. Granted, back was still in a lot of pain in the hours and days afterwards, but I was fine for the race.

I know it seems now that everything you've worked towards could go up in smoke, but whatever you do, get to that startline. The adrenaline will kick in, you will start off at sub-3 pace, you will feel some discomfort, you will battle on through it and you will do a sub-3marathon. Believe in yourself, and go for it.

nerraw1111

Cheers Forest, appreciate that. You swing from "this is a disaster" to "I can do this."

I'm not sweating it too much. In one sense, pressure is slightly off as less than ideal build up but on the other hands, that's no excuse to bail when it gets tough! So plan is to go with sub 3 pacers and assess every 5km or so. I'll be just as happy to run a good 3.10 etc as a sub 3 as long as its a good smart run on Monday.

nerraw1111

10km

A little tester this evening and things are looking up. Glute still sore but I think that's down to the tough massage. Really gave it a pummeling. No pinched or pulled feeling. Got up to race pace and felt good.

A bit of positive reinforcement, reminding myself of the recent 10km, the big pmp session, all done after big weeks, without gels etc.

I'll be toeing the line anyway

nerraw1111

8km

Last run before Monday. A lovely fresh morning for a dress rehearsal. Decided to wear a jacket over the vest as it was a wee bit chilly, zero degrees according to iphone.

Brought gels with me which felt very comfortable throughout the run. Calves felt good, glanced at watch once to see I was running PMP with ease. Forgot to wear gloves, hands were freezing but they warmed up quickly enough.

Roll on Monday.

KielyUnusual

Best of luck on Monday Nerraw. You're well on target.

Gloves wise, you can get two pairs in Penney's for €1.50. I picked these up and I'm going to wear a pair for the first few miles until my hands warm up. Might be worth the 75 cent investment for you.

RacoonQueen

Good luck on Monday. I second the penneys glove suggestion - they get me through the first couple of miles in DCM every yea, they're actually usually dumped somewhere around penneys again!

seanynova

best of luck on monday...

shotgunmcos

2:59.... Id say that hurt but felt good at the dame time! Well done!

ThePiedPiper

Savage running nerraw. It doesn't get much better than that. Fair play to ya for toughing it out with the injury worries. Great work.

nerraw1111

Cheers lads.

Will post a review up later but had a great day. Bad patch around 17 miles, felt OK on Roebuck and last 5km were tough. Crowds shouting "keep going, the 3 hour pacers are right behind you," while 10 meters down the road they were shouting: "well done, you're well ahead of the pacers". Both shouts had be hammering it all the way home.

Brilliant day, the advice on here definitely helped, the confidence to believe in the training.

nerraw1111

Dublin marathon



Bit of a blur so will try to keep it short.

Up at 5.30am, had some porridge and back to bed for another hour. Had a great night's sleep on both the Sat and Sun nights, so fully rested.

Arrived at Merrion square around 8.30am. The physio I go to is right on the start line and very generously, they opened especially for DCM and allowed clients to get ready there, use their loos etc which was brilliant.

Got to the start line and noticed the 3hour pacers were about 40 metres behind me. Couldn't really make my way back to them due to crowds. Gun went and within 300 metres I found myself with clear space. Rush of adrenalin had me going out far too fast. I reckoned I crossed the line about 15 seconds ahead of the pacers so didn't really want to wait around for them to catch up.

First few miles flew by and just ahead of the first water station, the pacers caught up. Very crowded, bodies darting from no-where in front of people to grab a bottle of water, nearly fell here. 5 mins later, I noticed one guy still has a water. I asked him for a drink. He said no saying there was plenty of the road! This was the first water station so I doubt he was drinking it all. lol.

Chesterfield avenue I felt the pace was a bit high. Running alongside the pacers here and I thought if they keep this pace up, I'm letting them go. Onto the downhill out of the park and pulled ahead of the pacers. Lots of room here, some good runners, one I knew, and a bit of banter. Great crowds going through Inchicore and feeling good. Next water stations from here on in were fine, everyone was sharing bottles and giving a shout asking if anyone wanted a drink, before firing them at highspeed into crowds of women and children.

Plan was a gel every 10km but somehow managed to take the second gel at 16km, thinking it was 20km. No idea how I did that. So I had one gel left for the rest of the marathon after just 10 miles.

Crumlin road was grand but it was a bit on the chilly side. Saw my pops at the halfway mark and still ticking along nicely just ahead of the pacers. Hit a bit of bad patch around Terenure, just couldn't keep up with the lads I was running with. Which was a pity, as they were chatting away, keeping spirits up. Thought I was seeing my sub 3 hour chances evaporating but kept plugging away, my pace didn't seem to be dropping and no-one was passing me.

Grabbed a gel somewhere along this point as I took the last one at 26km. Bit of a gamble given the flavour I got was one I never tried. Some manky flavour anyway. Cheers to Krusty for advising not to rely on the gel stations. They just seemed to be a bit random.

Onto the hill, kept the legs turning, caught a few people here. Upon reaching the top, still no sign of the 3 hour pacers so I thought Game On. Legs felt good on the downhill and I actually felt fantastic on the Stillorgan flyover.

People were beginning to detonate, lots of dejected looking folk now walking. Merrion road was tough, but I got in with a nice group. Around this point, people started shouting "keep going, 3 hour pacers are right behind you." 10 metres further down the road "Keep going, you're well ahead of the 3 hour pacers."

It was a bit like an aural Mexican wave chasing me. People would cheer you but about 10/15 seconds after you passed them, you'd hear a massive cheer and you knew the 3 hour pacers had just passed the same spot.

Either way, I wasn't looking behind me. Shelbourne road, a road I walk most days, went for ages, then the bridge, grrrrrr, and head down. Passing people now. I know the route but for a split second I thought the route didn't detour along Pearse street. It did. Balls. Another runner says we're good for sub 3 if we just hold the pace. I grunt in agreement.

See my Dad and the girlfriend. I give them a Eamon Coughlan style fist in the air as I take the last bend, 'it's in the bag.' See the finish and the 26 mile mark and think hmmmm, that looks a bit far. Then I hear the chap on the mic shouting "you only have 90 seconds to get under 3 hours." Wait, what? Only 90 seconds? That's loads of ti....put the boot down. Cross the line to see 2.59 still on the clock. Woohoo. Congratulations all round.

My girlfriend got a great pic of my Coughlan moment, both feet off the ground too! Thank feck I made it!

Really chuffed with the time and most of all, really enjoyed the race, more so I expected. Last 3km was intense, felt like you were going like a train, everyone around you was going for it too. Knife edge stuff. The guy on the mic gave me a bit of a fright with "only 90 seconds left." 17 second positive split.

Cheers for the advice again people.

DogSlySmile

Great running man! I imagine its way tougher to go out at your own pace than it is to just follow the pacers like I did so fair play to ya!

everyone was sharing bottles and giving a shout asking if anyone wanted a drink, before firing them at highspeed into crowds of women and children.

Slogger Jogger

Delighted for you. Good to see you at the finish. Well deserved.

KielyUnusual

Great race Nerraw. Always good to get an Eamon Coughlan reference in the race report too. I just hope that you weren't provocatively fist pumping in someones face as you were passing them a la Coughlan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWCX1SxSAF4

nerraw1111

A week of beers, some lovely pale ales from Sierra Neveda, Brooklyn summer ale and magic hat were had. One short run on the Thursday after the marathon, 4km of shuffling really.

So hit the trails today up at three rock. Beautiful afternoon for it and it turned into a bit of a savage run exploring the trails in the woods with a lapsed boardsie. No trail shoes but the terrain was ok for most part.

I followed the imra summer league route without the climb up the boneshaker. Lovely autumnal sunlight in the woods, plenty of grip. Came out at the aerials and followed fire road around the back for a couple of kms before climbing up towards fairy castle. Pretty sloppy here but do-able.

Heading back towards the aerial and I meet a boardsie and imra runner. He's out exploring MTB trails on foot for another time so decided to stay out and join him. Basically we ran all over three rock following various MTB trails. The unofficial ones. Brilliant fun ducking through the woods, really nice and runnable. Every so often, the trail would disappear but we'd find it again a few mins later. lots of running through the woods. Really surprised at the amount of running up there.

Even heading back to the carpark, there's a lovely downhill section that goes through the woods. Pitch black initially but eventually your eyes adjust and you tick along at nice pace on the lovely downhill gradient.

Finished up just before sunset and feeling a good tired. Garmin clocked about 14km. Great to be back on the hills.

nerraw1111

Still enjoying beers. Nice pints of 5am by Brewdog.

8km Wednesday

Took a bit of persuading to do this but pleasant evening for it. Nice tunes and easy recovery run.

Krusty_Clown

Class! Brilliant stuff. Great achievement (finding those fine beers). Marathon didn't go too bad either.

nerraw1111

Still just tipping away.

11km Ticknock trails

Headed up Ticknock again, the trails are really good fun, a decent workout and the autumnal colours at the moment are stunning. Forty shades of heather at the moment.



Wore inov 8 x talon 212. More of a racing shoe but great in muddy conditions. Reached the aerials and turned back down to hit some of the unofficial MTB trails. Really nice to run, fast and a nice gradient, with a few twists and turns.


Odd ramp too which are, erm, probably easier to land if you're on a bike. Eventually headed up to the Fairycastle and along a sloppy muddy trail to Two Rock.



Brilliant splashing descent on open mountain before heading back into the dark forest, randomly picking up and losing trails.



Started to hear strange noises before 5 or 6 deers darted out in front of me. Not a great idea to watch Love/Hate before bumbling around locations from the show. Brilliant to see them hopping along, just bouncing with all fours in the air at the same time.



Was pushed for time so scrambled up the hillside to hit the fireroad. Alas, I was literally miles (well at least one) away from where I thought was.

Really loving Ticknock at the moment. Lot of trails and yet to close to city.

Doing the 5km Run in the dark for Mark on Wednesday. Hopefully there's a PB for the taking, at least under 18.

Some pics.

Boneshaker

nerraw1111

Run in the Dark 5km

Pre-race prep consisted of a night on the beer followed by no breakfast this morning and an Indian meal 2 hours before the race.

I entered the race to support Mark Pollock, who's an impressive chap. Event was to help him walk again. So the actual race was a secondary motivation.

5km and 10km runners all went off at the same time with 10km doing two laps. I lined up with the "elite" which was anyone who was aiming to run under 38 mins.

Off we go and find myself in around 7th place, ticking along nicely, with a 3.30 first km. A slight gap opens ahead and a couple of runners appear on my shoulder. The route around the 2km doubles back on itself. Stomach is feeling rough at this stage and a couple of people pass me by. A bit wrecked at this stage and surprised to see I'm only running 3.40 ish pace. Feels much harder.

Around halfway it occurs to me that I may actually be leading the 5km race as I'm pretty sure the lads ahead are doing 10km. Really regretting that Indian as we hit 3km and head for home. I'm passed by a 5km runner and I go with him. Past 4km and I pass him again on a slight incline.

Finish line appears and I up the effort. Cross the line and stop. Marshal shouts the finish line is another 50 metres up the road. **** that. Get going again. I think I was passed by the 5km runner from earlier and I think I eventually got past him again just before the line. It's a bit of a blur.

A fairly crap race from me and finished in a time of 18.30 which is disappointing. Was expecting to get under 18 easily.

Times are not up yet so not sure if I somehow managed to win the 5km race or come 2nd. Spoke to the guy afterwards, whose friend told him she thinks he was the first 5km runner. But I think I got by him before the line. Although, technically, a group of about 7 10km runners crossed the 5km in a quicker time, ha!

Really nice race, the city looks lovely at that time of night. Fantastic to run around the area on closed roads. Well organised and massive crowds. Real feel good night.